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How Do We Take Hurling On From Here

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Last 4 Leinster championships:
2022 promoted Westmeath retained their place.
2023 promoted Antrim retained their place.
2024 promoted Carlow relegated.
2025 promoted Offaly retained their place.
The 6 team Leinster group does give the promoted side an opportunity to retain.

On the Joe Mac - the two home preliminary quarter finals that have rightly been chopped should be replaced by two home Joe Mac semi finals. I'll rest my case at that! Up to Croke Park and the county boards to sort that out.

1B hurling is more appealing than Joe Mac hurling. Kerry might be nearly better off prioritising the league next year. Closest they'll realistically get to challenging Waterford, Wexford and whoever else drops out from 1A.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9566 - 23/03/2026 18:13:04    2662652

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "How has that worked out for Laois and Antrim or westmeath? It has worked out ok so far for Offaly and Wexford."
The Leinster Championship went to 6 in 2021. Offaly were un the Christy Ring then, so not sure how you think the change helped Offaly.
If you follow your logic of creating more 'jeopardy', how about bringing relegation in for Munster?

Firceall (Offaly) - Posts: 42 - 23/03/2026 18:46:47    2662666

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "You know, had never actually considered things in that way before about what would have happened if Leinster was still only five teams, but you're right.

Take Westmeath results out of the '22 Leinster Championship, and we've have been in the final.
Take Westmeath results out of the '23 Championship, and while we'd still only have finished fourth, we would have been going into our last match threatened with relegation.
Take Antrim results out of the '24 Championship, and we'd have been back in the final.

Things would look a lot more positive!"
In relation to '23 - what I meant to say was we wouldn't have been going into our last match threatened with relegation.

An important distinction to make!!!!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3412 - 23/03/2026 21:03:24    2662683

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Replying To Viking66:  "How has it worked out ok for us? We missed out on 2 Leinster finals because of results against the 6th team let into Leinster. We drew with Westmeath, who were the 6th team let in, in 2022 and missed out on a Leinster Final on score difference to Kilkenny. Kiljenny beat Westmeath that year. We wouldve finished ahead of them by a point had it been a 5 team Leinster Championship.
And Antrim were the 6th team in 2024. We lost to them, and again missed out on a Leinster Final by 2 points to Dublin, who beat them. We drew with Dublin, and without the Antrim results our score difference was 24 points better than theirs. So again, in a 5 team Leinster Championship we wouldve made the final.
So, again, how exactly has the 6 team Leinster Championship worked out well for us?"
Its an insurance policy for the traditional counties. Thats my point. Thats how it works out well for ye as in whoever is the weakest of the 5 now that Offaly are back. Thats what it is for. It provides a buffer zone for the rest so that an Offaly should never happen again. It probably wont because even on yere( other 5) worst day you wont finish below that 6th team. Does anyone really believe that anyone other than kildare will finish bottom?
The other teams can pretend that it was great for hurling. It was for a year or 2 but everyone , including the teams that voted for it, knew what it was really about and that once Offaly got their act together somewhat that none of the 5 would be relegated. Even if wexford do keep losing to the weakest team in it.( i didnt realise it waa so common for ye to do that). So again, how does it benefit Laois, Carlow(i forgot them last time), Antrim , Westmeath or Kildare to be in this 6 team championship anymore than it did benefit them being in the 5 team one now that Offaly are back?
It doesn't.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 111 - 23/03/2026 21:47:52    2662693

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Replying To Firceall:  "The Leinster Championship went to 6 in 2021. Offaly were un the Christy Ring then, so not sure how you think the change helped Offaly.
If you follow your logic of creating more 'jeopardy', how about bringing relegation in for Munster?"
Its called forward planning. Ensuring that it can never happen again. If you recall your county were to the forefront in calling for the change. They weren't going to be the immediate beneficiary of the change but they knew thst once it came in that they would be the ultimate beneficiaries once the got their house in order and returned. To be fair they are back and probably need that insurance policy for the next few years and if they improve quicker then the team that drops below them will benefit. Forward planning and taking out insurance. Both very prudent practice.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 111 - 23/03/2026 21:55:15    2662694

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Last 4 Leinster championships:
2022 promoted Westmeath retained their place.
2023 promoted Antrim retained their place.
2024 promoted Carlow relegated.
2025 promoted Offaly retained their place.
The 6 team Leinster group does give the promoted side an opportunity to retain.

On the Joe Mac - the two home preliminary quarter finals that have rightly been chopped should be replaced by two home Joe Mac semi finals. I'll rest my case at that! Up to Croke Park and the county boards to sort that out.

1B hurling is more appealing than Joe Mac hurling. Kerry might be nearly better off prioritising the league next year. Closest they'll realistically get to challenging Waterford, Wexford and whoever else drops out from 1A."
Let's see how that goes for the next 5 years( in the Bob O Keefe)

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 111 - 23/03/2026 21:56:22    2662695

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Replying To Firceall:  "The Leinster Championship went to 6 in 2021. Offaly were un the Christy Ring then, so not sure how you think the change helped Offaly.
If you follow your logic of creating more 'jeopardy', how about bringing relegation in for Munster?"
Shhhh you can't mess with a cash cow ;-)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18876 - 23/03/2026 22:05:49    2662698

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Replying To Firceall:  "The Leinster Championship went to 6 in 2021. Offaly were un the Christy Ring then, so not sure how you think the change helped Offaly.
If you follow your logic of creating more 'jeopardy', how about bringing relegation in for Munster?"
Yes. Now, that would be interesting!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4101 - 23/03/2026 22:06:46    2662699

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "I actually replied to this last night but it never got published here. I will give you the short version. Its very noble of the competing counties to agree to extend the competition from 5 to 6. At least it appears and can be presented that way. However when you examine who it actually benefits then you see that it is actually more of an act of preserving the old guard than developing hurling as portrayed. How is finishing 5th in a 5 team competition any different to finishing 6th in a 6 team one for Antrim, Laois or Kildare? Who does going from 5 teams to 6 actually benefit? The team finishing 5th maybe?"
And yes, I'd have thought it was obvious that the change to six teams benefits the team finishing in 5th. Instead of being relegated from 5th, they'd retain their status for another year.

It also benefits the team coming up from the McDonagh Cup, even if they end up finishing 6th and going straight back down again. At least they'd have had a game against a team more generally of their own level to give them a chance to survive, instead of having to hope for the odd shock result like Westmeath or Antrim beating Wexford, or Carlow drawing with Kilkenny.

The change to six teams actually happened in 2022 (not 2021, as somebody said above). If you consider the teams involved as being split into two groups:
Group A (the ever-presents): Kilkenny, Galway, Dublin, Wexford
Group B (the others): Westmeath, Laois, Antrim, Carlow, Offaly

There have been 32 matches where a Group A team played a Group B team. Group A's record is won 27, drew 3, lost 2.

If there weren't six teams, there'd almost certainly be a 'yo-yo effect' of the team coming up ending up going straight back down again. As already pointed out, even in the year we diced with relegation ourselves, we wouldn't have been in that position if there were still only five teams in the championship.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3412 - 23/03/2026 22:08:10    2662702

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "In relation to '23 - what I meant to say was we wouldn't have been going into our last match threatened with relegation.

An important distinction to make!!!!"
You should have been a Jesuit!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4101 - 23/03/2026 22:38:04    2662718

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Replying To Viking66:  "The reason for the 6th team wasnt to improve the competition in itself, it was with the nobler aim of helping develop and promote hurling in more counties. Everyone knew when it was brought in that it was diluting our championship. That was the price we had to pay, especially in Wexford as we tend to under perform against middle tier counties worse than the other top tier counties do. We wouldve made the Leinster Final in 2022 as Westmeath wouldn't have been in Leinster. And we wouldve made the 2024 Leinster final as Antrim wouldn't have been in it.
You are around since the 70s, you surely heard all the debate about the expansion to 6 teams when it happened?"
Would Wexford not be considered middle tier at the moment? Actually, it would be interesting to know the criteria that separates middle and top tier.

bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 473 - 24/03/2026 08:39:58    2662744

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "How has that worked out for Laois and Antrim or westmeath? It has worked out ok so far for Offaly and Wexford."
I think your view of this is distorted by considering Offaly one of the old guard- when in reality the were in the Chritsy ring a few years ago. I'm not sure where you get their confidence that they'll 'never be relegated again' they have a serious battle on their hands with Kildare this year.

The 6th team in leinster has worked quite well for the purpose it was brough in for as poitned out above and Offaly are a good exemple of that. This will be their second year of exposure and they will be able to target home games to look for an upset while still worrying about staying up.

Now- IF Offaly were to really drive on and stay in leinster for a number of years, as Kildare/Laois/Carlow/Westmeath/ whoever rotate the 6th slot, things might have to be looked at again, but that would be an effect of the system working to bring Offaly up to a higher standard

Overdahill (Galway) - Posts: 93 - 24/03/2026 09:29:38    2662752

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All Ireland qualification is what makes the Munster championship. The Munster CEO fears any moves for 4 from each province going forward to the All Ireland series will impact the Munster championship.
Munster has 5 battling for 3. Leinster realistically has 4 battling for 3. Noone promoted to Leinster has been able to close the gap consistently to the top 4. Offaly would be the best prospects but not looking likely after their league campaign.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9566 - 24/03/2026 09:59:03    2662756

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Replying To Viking66:  "Shhhh you can't mess with a cash cow ;-)"
Relegation to where? The Bob o Keeffe?

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 111 - 24/03/2026 10:15:53    2662761

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Replying To bloodandbandage:  "Would Wexford not be considered middle tier at the moment? Actually, it would be interesting to know the criteria that separates middle and top tier."
Making Leinster finals maybe? Which we wouldve done twice in the last 4 years in a 5 team Leinster Championship.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18876 - 24/03/2026 10:24:42    2662766

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Its an insurance policy for the traditional counties. Thats my point. Thats how it works out well for ye as in whoever is the weakest of the 5 now that Offaly are back. Thats what it is for. It provides a buffer zone for the rest so that an Offaly should never happen again. It probably wont because even on yere( other 5) worst day you wont finish below that 6th team. Does anyone really believe that anyone other than kildare will finish bottom?
The other teams can pretend that it was great for hurling. It was for a year or 2 but everyone , including the teams that voted for it, knew what it was really about and that once Offaly got their act together somewhat that none of the 5 would be relegated. Even if wexford do keep losing to the weakest team in it.( i didnt realise it waa so common for ye to do that). So again, how does it benefit Laois, Carlow(i forgot them last time), Antrim , Westmeath or Kildare to be in this 6 team championship anymore than it did benefit them being in the 5 team one now that Offaly are back?
It doesn't."
We could always do a Munster on it, just have 5 teams and no relegation? That would probably improve the quality of games in the Leinster Championship?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18876 - 24/03/2026 10:29:57    2662769

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...
If Kerry caused an upset and won promotion via the Joe Mac to Munster, Kerry's presence wouldn't impact the battle of the other 5 for the 3 spots. Kerry realistically would only be passing through for a year.
Leinster in that scenario would be 5 teams for a year. Leinster would still on current form have only 4 teams realistically battling for 3 spots. Munster with 6 and Leinster with 5 wouldn't really change much about the All Ireland qualification battles in either. Leinster needs a 5th team to emerge to really set the cat amongst the pigeons.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9566 - 24/03/2026 10:31:52    2662770

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Replying To legendzxix:  "All Ireland qualification is what makes the Munster championship. The Munster CEO fears any moves for 4 from each province going forward to the All Ireland series will impact the Munster championship.
Munster has 5 battling for 3. Leinster realistically has 4 battling for 3. Noone promoted to Leinster has been able to close the gap consistently to the top 4. Offaly would be the best prospects but not looking likely after their league campaign."
Do Munster really have 5 battling for 3? Some years Tipp have been poor enough, and Waterford have never got out of the Round Robin.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18876 - 24/03/2026 10:32:47    2662771

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "And yes, I'd have thought it was obvious that the change to six teams benefits the team finishing in 5th. Instead of being relegated from 5th, they'd retain their status for another year.

It also benefits the team coming up from the McDonagh Cup, even if they end up finishing 6th and going straight back down again. At least they'd have had a game against a team more generally of their own level to give them a chance to survive, instead of having to hope for the odd shock result like Westmeath or Antrim beating Wexford, or Carlow drawing with Kilkenny.

The change to six teams actually happened in 2022 (not 2021, as somebody said above). If you consider the teams involved as being split into two groups:
Group A (the ever-presents): Kilkenny, Galway, Dublin, Wexford
Group B (the others): Westmeath, Laois, Antrim, Carlow, Offaly

There have been 32 matches where a Group A team played a Group B team. Group A's record is won 27, drew 3, lost 2.

If there weren't six teams, there'd almost certainly be a 'yo-yo effect' of the team coming up ending up going straight back down again. As already pointed out, even in the year we diced with relegation ourselves, we wouldn't have been in that position if there were still only five teams in the championship."
How does it benefit the 6th team any more than it did the 5th team in the 5 team championship? Thats not a benefit. Its a return to the status quo.
The only benefit to the likes of Laois, Westmeath, Carlow or Antrim they dont have to play the 5th best team in leinster to win the joe McDonagh. Thats an unintentional benefit though. Thats not what the extension was for.
It waa always going to be the case that the change would only move the trap door from 5th to 6th. That did damage the bob o keeffe as a competition though. Thats the consequence.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 111 - 24/03/2026 10:54:13    2662781

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Replying To Overdahill:  "I think your view of this is distorted by considering Offaly one of the old guard- when in reality the were in the Chritsy ring a few years ago. I'm not sure where you get their confidence that they'll 'never be relegated again' they have a serious battle on their hands with Kildare this year.

The 6th team in leinster has worked quite well for the purpose it was brough in for as poitned out above and Offaly are a good exemple of that. This will be their second year of exposure and they will be able to target home games to look for an upset while still worrying about staying up.

Now- IF Offaly were to really drive on and stay in leinster for a number of years, as Kildare/Laois/Carlow/Westmeath/ whoever rotate the 6th slot, things might have to be looked at again, but that would be an effect of the system working to bring Offaly up to a higher standard"
I dont think its distorted at all. If you look at who drove the push for the change to 6 you will see that it was the very county that needed the breathing space that the extension now provides. It was forward planning at its finest and a great piece of work on their part. Their job is to promote and protect the interests of their county first and foremost and they achieved that. The rest is in their own hands.
Offaly are comfortably the 5th best team in the Bob and may even push on up to 4th and challenge for 3rd this season. They played division 1 hurling this season while the 3 teams they are competing with were in division 2. That should stand to them but we will see.
As for looking at it again when what I have predicted becomes the norm, what can be done? Move to 7 teams and the trap door from 6th to 7th? Thats not in anyone's interest and damages the Bob Cup even further.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 111 - 24/03/2026 11:02:18    2662785

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