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Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I wouldn't mind seeing a provincial group stage. It would sort out the imbalanced draws. The top third of every province Ulster 3/9, Leinster 4/11, Munster 2/6 and Connacht & London 2/6 - that's 11 qualifying through the provinces. Tailteann winner then - 12. 4 league spots then possibly. NY entering Tailteann only."
Is that not just creating a further terrible flow to the season.

If there's one big thing that needs to be improved it the flow of the season and it's very rare I see something here that addresses that.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4605 - 07/07/2025 16:06:13    2624184

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Is that not just creating a further terrible flow to the season.

If there's one big thing that needs to be improved it the flow of the season and it's very rare I see something here that addresses that."
AILC? - Doesn't it build towards the 3-tier AI KO stage, with right-sized tier KO berths and with Prov titles handed out along the journey (it's moot that Ulster is cherished and Munster is not).

The fact that an Ulster Prelim game could count as a league tie too, while a Prov Final could potentially not double up, is not a flaw [e.g. Ire v Eng counts towards the Triple Crown and 6 Nations table, while Ire v Fra only counts towards the latter (it's neither here nor there, IMO)].

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3318 - 07/07/2025 20:39:32    2624245

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Is that not just creating a further terrible flow to the season.

If there's one big thing that needs to be improved it the flow of the season and it's very rare I see something here that addresses that."
At the end of the day, the flow to the season is league, provincial championships and All Ireland & Tailteann. That's the flow whether people like it or not.
Extending the inter county season by 2 or 3 weeks for more gaps will take some joined up thinking between Croke Park, county boards and provincial councils.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8985 - 07/07/2025 21:08:05    2624250

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Replying To omahant:  "AILC? - Doesn't it build towards the 3-tier AI KO stage, with right-sized tier KO berths and with Prov titles handed out along the journey (it's moot that Ulster is cherished and Munster is not).

The fact that an Ulster Prelim game could count as a league tie too, while a Prov Final could potentially not double up, is not a flaw [e.g. Ire v Eng counts towards the Triple Crown and 6 Nations table, while Ire v Fra only counts towards the latter (it's neither here nor there, IMO)
."]Honestly I've stopped discussing with you. You don't listen to criticism at all so it's no point.

The 6 Nations example you keep bringing up is a false equivalence.

Every team playing in the Triple Crown has an opportunity to win the overall 6 Nations championship, that wouldn't be the case in your All Ireland where half the teams play in the Provincials but have no path to an All Ireland if they win their Province. It doesn't make sense to have Provincials linked but a Provincial champion not compete for the Sam Maguire in a shape.

If we go back to rugby, they've brought in this new Nations Championship competition and the 6 Nations is fully included in it, not half in and half out.

Half in half out doesn't make sense.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4605 - 08/07/2025 04:48:17    2624282

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Replying To legendzxix:  "At the end of the day, the flow to the season is league, provincial championships and All Ireland & Tailteann. That's the flow whether people like it or not.
Extending the inter county season by 2 or 3 weeks for more gaps will take some joined up thinking between Croke Park, county boards and provincial councils."
So the format of those 3 components aren't important.

There's no merit to the argument that the league and provincials could be played in parallel?

If we can have a split season I don't see why our other scheduling issues are too sacrosanct to change.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4605 - 08/07/2025 10:23:49    2624311

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Replying To Whammo86:  "So the format of those 3 components aren't important.

There's no merit to the argument that the league and provincials could be played in parallel?

If we can have a split season I don't see why our other scheduling issues are too sacrosanct to change."
Playing Provincials and NFL in the same timeframe is the way to go in my opinion to give a more streamlined Inter County structure.
The craic of teams playing 7 NFL in 9 weeks, a provincial 2 weeks later and maybe a 6 week wait to the next game needs to go.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2519 - 08/07/2025 11:39:46    2624338

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Replying To Whammo86:  "
Replying To omahant:  "AILC? - Doesn't it build towards the 3-tier AI KO stage, with right-sized tier KO berths and with Prov titles handed out along the journey (it's moot that Ulster is cherished and Munster is not).

The fact that an Ulster Prelim game could count as a league tie too, while a Prov Final could potentially not double up, is not a flaw [e.g. Ire v Eng counts towards the Triple Crown and 6 Nations table, while Ire v Fra only counts towards the latter (it's neither here nor there, IMO)
."
Honestly I've stopped discussing with you. You don't listen to criticism at all so it's no point.

The 6 Nations example you keep bringing up is a false equivalence.

Every team playing in the Triple Crown has an opportunity to win the overall 6 Nations championship, that wouldn't be the case in your All Ireland where half the teams play in the Provincials but have no path to an All Ireland if they win their Province. It doesn't make sense to have Provincials linked but a Provincial champion not compete for the Sam Maguire in a shape.

If we go back to rugby, they've brought in this new Nations Championship competition and the 6 Nations is fully included in it, not half in and half out.

Half in half out doesn't make sense."]What if I said the Prov SFCs are delinked - just simply a subset of the whole. As it is, while all counties participate in Prov SFCs, some QF losers play for Sam, while others are excluded. Why - alternative method - they qualify via the league - just like AILC. It wouldn't be necessarily wrong if they decided to scrap the Prov link entirely and said league top 16 to Sam.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3318 - 08/07/2025 12:37:25    2624363

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@Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4603 - 08/07/2025

Also, there was a time when Div 4 non-Prov Finalists were restricted to Tommy Murphy Cup (ineligible for Sam) - but all other Prov non- Finalists were included, via Qualifiers.

Some in Sam, some not - while all failed to make a Prov Final, only some "linked" to Sam - illegal you say.

You could pretend it never happened - but I won't.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3318 - 08/07/2025 12:48:19    2624369

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Replying To omahant:  "@Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4603 - 08/07/2025

Also, there was a time when Div 4 non-Prov Finalists were restricted to Tommy Murphy Cup (ineligible for Sam) - but all other Prov non- Finalists were included, via Qualifiers.

Some in Sam, some not - while all failed to make a Prov Final, only some "linked" to Sam - illegal you say.

You could pretend it never happened - but I won't."
Again that's not the same and it's not dissimilar to the current format.

The Provincials are linked to the All Ireland, provincial finalists played in the qualifiers back then, they play in the All Ireland group stage now.

This is another example of why I find discussion with you frustrating, you use clear false equivalences to back up your argument and it's just tedious.

You're suggesting that Provincials be linked to the All Ireland but Provincial champions are not necessarily able to compete for the All Ireland. It doesn't make any sense. Never say never and all but I really struggle to see a path where that would gain much support as a viable structure and it'd have nothing to do with being simple or closed minded about it. It's very easy to take the proposal on its own merits and conclude that it makes no sense.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4605 - 08/07/2025 16:42:29    2624431

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Looks like the "double eliminator" system will be going ahead next year.
I don't see or hear of any moves to put an alternative forward for the Special Congress in the Autumn.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2519 - 08/07/2025 16:58:55    2624437

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Looks like the "double eliminator" system will be going ahead next year.
I don't see or hear of any moves to put an alternative forward for the Special Congress in the Autumn."
It's not a good thing but sure we can all get on with our lives.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4605 - 08/07/2025 19:53:53    2624483

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Again that's not the same and it's not dissimilar to the current format.

The Provincials are linked to the All Ireland, provincial finalists played in the qualifiers back then, they play in the All Ireland group stage now.

This is another example of why I find discussion with you frustrating, you use clear false equivalences to back up your argument and it's just tedious.

You're suggesting that Provincials be linked to the All Ireland but Provincial champions are not necessarily able to compete for the All Ireland. It doesn't make any sense. Never say never and all but I really struggle to see a path where that would gain much support as a viable structure and it'd have nothing to do with being simple or closed minded about it. It's very easy to take the proposal on its own merits and conclude that it makes no sense."
I think you are too tied to "Prov SFC LINKED to AIC" -
Can we agree that, while one does not have to like the AILC, the following about it, is true:

1) AIC KO tier is essentially based on League ranking.
2) Prov KO ties 'partially' influence such League ranking (as some ties double up and some do not).
3) During the Tommy Murphy Cup years, a Prov QF loser's eligibility for Sam Qualifiers was based on whether it had a Div 4 status or not.
4) While such Div 4 team had a legitimate path to Sam via the Prov SFC, could it equally have been structured that it had not (like Liam McC limitation)?

I'm just saying there are options - desired, or not, all are valid.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3318 - 08/07/2025 20:06:01    2624486

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