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Replying To alalalalalum: "Well then it is preferable to call the secondary competition the intermediate all Ireland rather than this teacup nonsense
Of course an intermediate title isn't demeaning" I think they should structure the County all Ireland like club. Senior, Intermediate and Junior, with promotion and relegation. Some sort of knockout format, with 1st round losers into a relegation series, 1st round winners go on further in the championship.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17765 - 10/12/2025 13:56:30
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Replying To alalalalalum: "Well then it is preferable to call the secondary competition the intermediate all Ireland rather than this teacup nonsense
Of course an intermediate title isn't demeaning" So the name of it is your only issue in the case? It's clearly the second level intercounty championship, the same as intermediate club championships are. If it was renamed to the intermediate county championship, you'd be grand with it then, I'm assuming.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2661 - 10/12/2025 14:08:52
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Replying To Gaa_lover: "Door isn't closed on any county, if you happen to be a div 3,4 team you can compete in the Sam Maguire cup by reaching your provincial final and you can also get to compete in it by winning the "demaning Trophy" so hardly meaningless more super." I didn't say it was demaning, I said it was demeaning.
alalalalalum (USA) - Posts: 166 - 10/12/2025 14:26:23
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Replying To alalalalalum: "Exactly, let the beaten teams play in an all Ireland qualifier and if they lose that also let them go into another competition...if they wish" And as I've already pointed out, there are three different things they can already consider as "All-Ireland qualifiers", since if they do well enough in them, they'll qualify for the All-Ireland series.
You want to add a fourth route as well. Why not give them a fifth, sixth, seventh, etc., in case they end up needing them too?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3306 - 10/12/2025 15:10:38
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Replying To alalalalalum: "I didn't say it was demaning, I said it was demeaning." Thanks for correcting my typo. So it wouldn't be demeaning if the Tailteann cup was called the Intermediate All-Ireland instead?
Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3794 - 10/12/2025 18:39:41
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Replying To Pikeman96: "And as I've already pointed out, there are three different things they can already consider as "All-Ireland qualifiers", since if they do well enough in them, they'll qualify for the All-Ireland series.
You want to add a fourth route as well. Why not give them a fifth, sixth, seventh, etc., in case they end up needing them too?" No I just want it to go back to the original qualifier set up. Adding all those routes you mentioned is just a bit childish really
alalalalalum (USA) - Posts: 166 - 10/12/2025 18:56:11
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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma: "But where has that gotten us?
2010: Wexford 4-22 - 0-9 London
2010: Cork 1-19 - 0-4 Cavan
2013: Offaly 0-08 - 1-27 Tyrone
2013: Armagh 2-21 - 0-02 Wicklow
2013: Armagh 8-13 - 0-10 Leitrim
2014; Down 4-18 - 0-09 Leitrim
2015: Tipperary 3-21 - 0-07 Louth
2018: Waterford 0-09 - 5-21 Monaghan
And that's just in the qualifiers. None of those results are from the provincial championships, which contained {and still contain) more of the same." What about Sligo and Limerick who had good seasons in back door championship? What about Fermanagh, Tipperary, Wexford reaching All Ireland semi finals in the same format? The current Small ireland and Tailteann championships only increase the gulf in standards between Division 1 and 2 counties and Division 3 and 4 counties. Top counties improve playing against higher standard counties. So called weaker counties standards get lower playing against weaker standard counties. I wasn't a fan of the back door before it started but, with it and previous league formats, some so called weaker counties had a chance to test themselves against higher standard counties. Some were anihiliated and then faded away and some took lessons onboard and improved. But they had a system that at least gave them a chace to improve. I, cynically, don't believe the current sytem allows them to improve. It, with round robin games that aren't needed, is to keep the stronger counties strong, to boost attendances and TV revenue. It shouldn't be called an All Ireland Championship.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8391 - 10/12/2025 19:06:16
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Replying To GreenandRed: "What about Sligo and Limerick who had good seasons in back door championship? What about Fermanagh, Tipperary, Wexford reaching All Ireland semi finals in the same format? The current Small ireland and Tailteann championships only increase the gulf in standards between Division 1 and 2 counties and Division 3 and 4 counties. Top counties improve playing against higher standard counties. So called weaker counties standards get lower playing against weaker standard counties. I wasn't a fan of the back door before it started but, with it and previous league formats, some so called weaker counties had a chance to test themselves against higher standard counties. Some were anihiliated and then faded away and some took lessons onboard and improved. But they had a system that at least gave them a chace to improve. I, cynically, don't believe the current sytem allows them to improve. It, with round robin games that aren't needed, is to keep the stronger counties strong, to boost attendances and TV revenue. It shouldn't be called an All Ireland Championship." You've picked some bad examples there as regards All-Ireland semi-finals in particular.
Both Wexford 2008 and Tipperary 2016 reached the semi-finals after they first reached their provincial finals. Nothing whatsoever to do with back-door qualifiers for 'weaker' teams beaten in the earlier rounds of provincial championships. The very same pathway would be open to them today.
Fermanagh is a good example of how the back-door qualifier system benefitted a 'lesser' team all right, but you have to go all the way back to 2004 for it. And when you've to go back more than two decades to find that example, you're really scratching for it.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3306 - 10/12/2025 22:15:28
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I mentioned earlier in the year when Tailteann Cup finished that there's a clear gulf within both All Ireland and TC. There are close to 5/6 teams in the Sam competition that haven't an asses roar of getting to the semi final let alone win the competition. Similarly in TC you can nearly pick 5/6 teams who it's going to come down to for the last 4. I'd sooner reduce competitions to 12 teams and introduce a third competition. You can still allow some league element to play a role which might see a team jump from tier 3 up to 2 with or without reaching provincial final.
Some posters mentioned the qualifiers and yes Sligo were one of a few teams who had a good run in several years during them. But we had a team then that was playing Division 1 in early 2000s and regularly making Connacht finals. Would I like to go back to chancing our arm against the likes of Tyrone or Armagh in a round 3/4 game now…not so sure as the result would be up there on the list of heavy drubbings. I sometimes think those ardent Leitrim supporters on here who are against change all the time would sooner be hammered in an All Ireland game by one of the big teams and maybe have it to say they were in the competition and had put it up to a Kerry, Tyrone, Dublin for a few minutes, rather than accept not being able to beat your own level is the real issue. And that includes the likes of Sligo too. We're in Div 3 for a reason for the majority of the last 10 years. The once off great campaign were great at the time and we still talk about 2002 and Armagh getting lucky, but wouldn't today's generation treat winning the TC much the same way? It's not often a Sligo man has climbed the steps of the Hogan Stand to collect a cup, and if it is to ever happen in Championship in the next while, it certainly won't be for Sam and you can add another 20 something counties to it.
Sligoman1234 (Sligo) - Posts: 621 - 11/12/2025 04:45:13
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Replying To GreenandRed: "What about Sligo and Limerick who had good seasons in back door championship? What about Fermanagh, Tipperary, Wexford reaching All Ireland semi finals in the same format? The current Small ireland and Tailteann championships only increase the gulf in standards between Division 1 and 2 counties and Division 3 and 4 counties. Top counties improve playing against higher standard counties. So called weaker counties standards get lower playing against weaker standard counties. I wasn't a fan of the back door before it started but, with it and previous league formats, some so called weaker counties had a chance to test themselves against higher standard counties. Some were anihiliated and then faded away and some took lessons onboard and improved. But they had a system that at least gave them a chace to improve. I, cynically, don't believe the current sytem allows them to improve. It, with round robin games that aren't needed, is to keep the stronger counties strong, to boost attendances and TV revenue. It shouldn't be called an All Ireland Championship." I agree with everything you say, but you will still have people saying it is a great idea to watch the gap between the top divisions get wider...and that is what this competition is doing.
And their format when first changed has been changed again so it is obviously not a good system, either for it or the All Ireland
alalalalalum (USA) - Posts: 166 - 11/12/2025 09:02:11
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Replying To Sligoman1234: "I mentioned earlier in the year when Tailteann Cup finished that there's a clear gulf within both All Ireland and TC. There are close to 5/6 teams in the Sam competition that haven't an asses roar of getting to the semi final let alone win the competition. Similarly in TC you can nearly pick 5/6 teams who it's going to come down to for the last 4. I'd sooner reduce competitions to 12 teams and introduce a third competition. You can still allow some league element to play a role which might see a team jump from tier 3 up to 2 with or without reaching provincial final.
Some posters mentioned the qualifiers and yes Sligo were one of a few teams who had a good run in several years during them. But we had a team then that was playing Division 1 in early 2000s and regularly making Connacht finals. Would I like to go back to chancing our arm against the likes of Tyrone or Armagh in a round 3/4 game now…not so sure as the result would be up there on the list of heavy drubbings. I sometimes think those ardent Leitrim supporters on here who are against change all the time would sooner be hammered in an All Ireland game by one of the big teams and maybe have it to say they were in the competition and had put it up to a Kerry, Tyrone, Dublin for a few minutes, rather than accept not being able to beat your own level is the real issue. And that includes the likes of Sligo too. We're in Div 3 for a reason for the majority of the last 10 years. The once off great campaign were great at the time and we still talk about 2002 and Armagh getting lucky, but wouldn't today's generation treat winning the TC much the same way? It's not often a Sligo man has climbed the steps of the Hogan Stand to collect a cup, and if it is to ever happen in Championship in the next while, it certainly won't be for Sam and you can add another 20 something counties to it." I have nothing against a secondary cup but give teams a chance in a knock out qualifier for the All Ireland first like they used to have.
And even if there was a heavy drubbing in that qualifier what about it, it could be a huge money boost especially if the team got a home game against one of the big teams
alalalalalum (USA) - Posts: 166 - 11/12/2025 11:05:15
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Replying To Sligoman1234: "I mentioned earlier in the year when Tailteann Cup finished that there's a clear gulf within both All Ireland and TC. There are close to 5/6 teams in the Sam competition that haven't an asses roar of getting to the semi final let alone win the competition. Similarly in TC you can nearly pick 5/6 teams who it's going to come down to for the last 4. I'd sooner reduce competitions to 12 teams and introduce a third competition. You can still allow some league element to play a role which might see a team jump from tier 3 up to 2 with or without reaching provincial final.
Some posters mentioned the qualifiers and yes Sligo were one of a few teams who had a good run in several years during them. But we had a team then that was playing Division 1 in early 2000s and regularly making Connacht finals. Would I like to go back to chancing our arm against the likes of Tyrone or Armagh in a round 3/4 game now…not so sure as the result would be up there on the list of heavy drubbings. I sometimes think those ardent Leitrim supporters on here who are against change all the time would sooner be hammered in an All Ireland game by one of the big teams and maybe have it to say they were in the competition and had put it up to a Kerry, Tyrone, Dublin for a few minutes, rather than accept not being able to beat your own level is the real issue. And that includes the likes of Sligo too. We're in Div 3 for a reason for the majority of the last 10 years. The once off great campaign were great at the time and we still talk about 2002 and Armagh getting lucky, but wouldn't today's generation treat winning the TC much the same way? It's not often a Sligo man has climbed the steps of the Hogan Stand to collect a cup, and if it is to ever happen in Championship in the next while, it certainly won't be for Sam and you can add another 20 something counties to it." Sensible posts to counter the idiocy being promulgated by some.
Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 271 - 11/12/2025 14:00:10
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Replying To Pikeman96: "You've picked some bad examples there as regards All-Ireland semi-finals in particular.
Both Wexford 2008 and Tipperary 2016 reached the semi-finals after they first reached their provincial finals. Nothing whatsoever to do with back-door qualifiers for 'weaker' teams beaten in the earlier rounds of provincial championships. The very same pathway would be open to them today.
Fermanagh is a good example of how the back-door qualifier system benefitted a 'lesser' team all right, but you have to go all the way back to 2004 for it. And when you've to go back more than two decades to find that example, you're really scratching for it." Fair points but I still think the back door system gave so called weaker counties some opportunities versus strongee teams. Fermanagh had a good team in 2004 and lost the semi final after a replay. I thought we were blessed to get them to a replay. It wouldn't be the same pathway for Wexford or Tipperary now. It'd probably be easier now! Until this year they'd be in a 4 team group after reaching a provincial final with 3 getting out of the group. Experience of playing team of a higher standard which could benefit them if they tried to improve their level but heavy defeats could quickly wear the confidence for squads. Some teams benefited from the back door system. Plenty didn't. But I don't see many Divsion 3 or 4 teams benefitting if they play teams of that standard for league and championship. If a team avoids relegation from Division One it'll play in the All Ireland the next year. The 4 Tailteann Cup winners are all recent Division 2 teams with plenty of experience at that level. How does that system benefit the standards of Division Three and Four teams and reduce the gap in standards with Division One and Two teams? It's early days in Tailteann terms. Hopefully the provincial league, league, provincials, Tailteann, All Ireland system can be tweaked so that some lower league counties can improve their standards consistently.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8391 - 11/12/2025 16:55:03
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Fair points but I still think the back door system gave so called weaker counties some opportunities versus strongee teams. Fermanagh had a good team in 2004 and lost the semi final after a replay. I thought we were blessed to get them to a replay. It wouldn't be the same pathway for Wexford or Tipperary now. It'd probably be easier now! Until this year they'd be in a 4 team group after reaching a provincial final with 3 getting out of the group. Experience of playing team of a higher standard which could benefit them if they tried to improve their level but heavy defeats could quickly wear the confidence for squads. Some teams benefited from the back door system. Plenty didn't. But I don't see many Divsion 3 or 4 teams benefitting if they play teams of that standard for league and championship. If a team avoids relegation from Division One it'll play in the All Ireland the next year. The 4 Tailteann Cup winners are all recent Division 2 teams with plenty of experience at that level. How does that system benefit the standards of Division Three and Four teams and reduce the gap in standards with Division One and Two teams? It's early days in Tailteann terms. Hopefully the provincial league, league, provincials, Tailteann, All Ireland system can be tweaked so that some lower league counties can improve their standards consistently." Down and Westmeath are both Division 3 for 2026. Down can say last years league was a bit unlucky on them as 1 more point and they were safe but Meath former winners and Cavan former finalists were also 1 result away from being in the mix for relegation, so clearly shows that the bottom end of Division 2 is and Division teams 1-4/5 in Div 3 are in or around the same level. It's extremely unlikely you'll ever see a non promoted Division 4 team giving the TC a good run.
Sligoman1234 (Sligo) - Posts: 621 - 11/12/2025 19:01:05
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Replying To Sligoman1234: "Down and Westmeath are both Division 3 for 2026. Down can say last years league was a bit unlucky on them as 1 more point and they were safe but Meath former winners and Cavan former finalists were also 1 result away from being in the mix for relegation, so clearly shows that the bottom end of Division 2 is and Division teams 1-4/5 in Div 3 are in or around the same level. It's extremely unlikely you'll ever see a non promoted Division 4 team giving the TC a good run." We got to the QF in 2023, so did Carlow. Laois made the SF.
None of us were promoted from div4, yourselves and Wicklow went up that year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17765 - 11/12/2025 19:36:58
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Replying To Sligoman1234: "Down and Westmeath are both Division 3 for 2026. Down can say last years league was a bit unlucky on them as 1 more point and they were safe but Meath former winners and Cavan former finalists were also 1 result away from being in the mix for relegation, so clearly shows that the bottom end of Division 2 is and Division teams 1-4/5 in Div 3 are in or around the same level. It's extremely unlikely you'll ever see a non promoted Division 4 team giving the TC a good run." Would you be happy then that year on year the gap in standards will increase from Division 3 and 4 to Division 1 and 2? Could it encourage more Division 3 and 4 players to drop out of intercounty, switch to other sports or even relocate to stronger counties or try to play for stronger counties their parents came from? Meath are an outlier there as Robbie Brennan gave them a big boost, improving confidence in a talented squad. Based on this year they have realistic ambitions of promotion and going far in the 2026 championship.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8391 - 11/12/2025 20:30:16
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