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What is a scoring forward from play at intercounty level? An average of two points per play per game?
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 820 - 25/01/2026 17:30:47 2653128 Link 0 |
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3. If you have 5 forwards average 3 from play, allowing you are dropping a lad back to reduce space around the middle, and maybe allow your 6 to track a roving 11, a couple of points from midfield, 3 from your backs, and 10 frees, you only score the bare 30 points, which is probably a minimum amount to win a championship game against a good opponent these days. Just to reminds lads about what made Paul Morris such an important intercounty forward for us, he averaged just over 3 from play per game. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18143 - 25/01/2026 20:01:47 2653156 Link 0 |
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True too.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18143 - 25/01/2026 20:08:27 2653158 Link 0 |
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Delighted to come out of Wexford park on Saturday with the 2 points . The conditions were atrocious and we were coming up against a much more experienced Antrim team. Was delighted to see the crowd get behind the team near the end of the game . Some of the negativity in the county is unfair on these young lads who need our support . Fair play to Fanning he couldn't have hit the free any better. Darragh Carley was excellent I thought he looks to have bulked up and has been good in all 3 games so far this years. Wickham was good again and Conor Foley came out with a lot of ball in the second half . Conor Hearne put in a big shift until he came off . We probably need more from our forwards . Was happy with Simon Roche he showed he is well capable of winning ball and is able to compete physically . With the result in Ennis yesterday it means we need to win the next 2 games no slip ups then throw the kitchen sink at the Dubs in Croker. Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 842 - 26/01/2026 09:09:48 2653250 Link 0 |
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IMO, it's closer to two points from play per game, Paul Morris averaged closer to two than three (Which was a very good return), very few played regularly score 3+ from play, that Limerick team really distorted things, Jake Morris was the only one who regularly scored 3+ for Tipp last year
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 820 - 26/01/2026 10:15:15 2653264 Link 0 |
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I think 1-24/1-25 is the amount you need to be regularly scoring, would say that works out as somewhere between 1-14 and 1-18 from play each game Had a look back at all of our Championship games since 2022 and the number of times we have scored at that rate 4-15 against Laois (2022) 1-15 against Kilkenny (2022) 3-18 against Kerry (2022) 1-25 against Antrim (2023) 2-16 against Westmeath (2023) 4-15 against Kilkenny (2023) 1-14 against Antrim (2024) 1-18 against Galway (2024) 2-26 against Carlow (2024) 2-14 against Kilkenny (2024) 0-23 against Laois (2024) 2-12 against Antrim (2025) 3-14 against Dublin (2025) ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 820 - 26/01/2026 10:25:39 2653266 Link 0 |
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If you tot up Paul Morris contribution at every grade he was 3pts a game. I did stats for all of our forwards in the past decade last year. Conor Mac would surprise you. All things considered he was our most potent forward from play for the number of appearances he had. I'd say Rory might have taken that last year though.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4175 - 26/01/2026 11:25:05 2653280 Link 0 |
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When I said 30 points minimum I was including goals at 3 points. Though 30 points would have meant losers medals in the last 2 AI Finals.Tipp scored 3-27 to win the AI last year. 36 points. The year before both sides had 34 points at the end of normal time. That's Tipp, Cork and Clare. Not Limerick. If your 5 forwards playing as forwards only average 2 from play a game, and you get 10 frees, then you are expecting your midfielders and backs to chip in with 10 points plus, which is asking alot of them. Not sure what he finished up with when he retired but I was told by a stats lad involved in 2020 that Morris was averaging a little over 3 from play at that point. Cian Byrne scored 1-9 from his only 3 championship starts in 2024 against Kilkenny, Galway and Antrim, or 4 points average per game. Omitting the dead rubber v Kilkenny he scored 2-3 in his 3 championship starts v Dublin, Antrim and Offaly last year, or 3 per game. 2 per game is just not enough for a scoring forwards to be scoring in modern intercounty championship hurling. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18143 - 26/01/2026 12:32:22 2653302 Link 0 |
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Yes and we didnt even win all those games. We lost 4 of them including some really important games, nearly all the most important ones. Against Westmeath in 2023, Antrim and Kilkenny in 2024, and Dublin in 2025. We need to be scoring more than you think we do imo. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18143 - 26/01/2026 12:38:12 2653306 Link 0 |
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Is that all competitions or just Championship? I think Paul Morris made 40-45 Championship appearances (Not all starts of course) and by my rough count, he got 4-58 from play in that time ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 820 - 26/01/2026 12:47:38 2653311 Link 0 |
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We need to be conceding less! 3-26 against Dublin last year, 2-22 against Antrim in 2024, 4-18 against Westmeath in 2023, we were too sit at the back in all of those games ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 820 - 26/01/2026 13:15:13 2653319 Link 0 |
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I think two points from play per game is enough for a forward, the problem is that we haven't had enough forwards who have done that I was wrong earlier that Jake Morris was the only Tipp forward to average 3+ points from play last year; John McGrath averaged over 4+ points from play per game when you factor in goals. What Tipp really had last year was a load of lads who could score; all their forwards could score, their midfielders were able to score, the defence chipped in with a few scores, and they got some scoring impact off the bench I think with Cian Byrne, CBD, Kevin Foley, Simon Roche, Jacko, Jack Redmond, Chin, Conor Hearne, and Damien Reck, we have players who can score 2+ points from play per game; the problem IMO is that our use of the ball hasn't been anywhere good enough and we aren't working the ball well and putting players in scorable positions. Like for example, I don't think we've done a good job in recent years of playing good ball into Rory and Lee, the Martin's do a lot better job of finding Rory (Albeit at club level) ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 820 - 26/01/2026 13:45:31 2653328 Link 0 |
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Tipp last year from play…. Limerick: 2-14 Cork: 0-12 Clare: 4-09 Waterford: 1-13 Laois: 3-22 Galway: 1-22 Kilkenny: 4-11 Cork: 2-18 Only broke the 1-14 to 1-18 range against Laois who had lost the Joe McDonagh the week before, Galway who were very poor, Kilkenny (Just about broke it), and Cork who collapsed in the second half Still very good scoring but against good teams who perform on the day, it's hard to score anymore than 1-18 from play Our problems are that (a) we don't average between 1-14 and 1-18 consistently enough, (b) we concede too much, (c) we don't win enough frees (Should we run at teams more?), and (d) we don't convert enough frees ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 820 - 26/01/2026 13:50:54 2653333 Link 0 |
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You need all forwards capable of chipping in on the scoring consistently not just ball winners or workhorses . If yiu only have 2 or 3 capable (marquee players) makes it a lot easier for defenders to concentrate on those players . . Do we have 4 or 5 not so sure at moment. But hopefully they ll step up to the plate . Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 522 - 26/01/2026 14:00:44 2653340 Link 0 |
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We do, some anyway. Tell the child and the parent where both welcome it. Some, you are wasting your breath. The hurl doesn't leave the boot of the car only for training/babysitting. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1536 - 26/01/2026 15:23:25 2653368 Link 0 |
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A win is a win is a win as the saying goes re Saturday night. Experimental Wexford lineup and need the wins to build confidence. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1536 - 26/01/2026 15:25:05 2653369 Link 0 |
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Just as a thought experiment but I came up with a XV from lads who (I think) are a part of the panel but didn't start on Saturday ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 820 - 26/01/2026 15:55:30 2653380 Link 0 |
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They scored 20 from play against Limerick, and 21 against Clare. By your own figures there. Averaging 1-14, 17 points, is not enough. 1-18, 21 points, is barely enough, considering our freetaking which you highlighted there. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18143 - 26/01/2026 15:59:28 2653384 Link 0 |
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Clare and Cork conceded 34 points against eachother in the 2024 AI final.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18143 - 26/01/2026 16:02:12 2653385 Link 0 |
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I think consistency is a huge problem with some of the established lads you mention there. Jacko could score 4, or more usually only scores none or one. Don't think CBD has score a point at all in League or Championship for us yet has he? Didn't last year as far as I remember anyway. Wasnt prolific for his club either. Kevin Foley wouldn't be prolific at intercounty either, although I do think he is one of our best players in other ways. Put up Cian Byrnes stas in an earlier post, he's averaging 3.5 points from play per game in Championship. Simon Roche is only young, he's strong and works hard, and is a good hurler, and has played well this year. But he's had more wides than scores in the Walsh Cup and Challenge games so far this year. Saturday night was a poor night for shooting, but again he had more wides than points, he had 1 point from play from 4 shots at the posts. Is forward his best position? Or is he being played there at club and now county level out necessity? Asking Conor Hearne and Damien Reck to score more than 2 from play every game from sitting midfielder and centreback is expecting too much of them. Jack Redmond was the top point scorer from play in the club championship last year, and 2nd highest scorer from play overall. Scored 1 point from 2 shots off the bench Saturday I think, and the other was a goal bound shot cleared off the line by Ruairi McCormick, whose father was sitting next to me in the stand. Darren Codd scored 1 from 1 also. James Byrne and Tucker are probably more natural forwards also. Both got points Saturday, neither seemed to hit many wides as far as I remember. There seems to be an element of square pegs in round holes going on. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18143 - 26/01/2026 16:21:40 2653390 Link 0 |