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Shorts Vs Skorts

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It won't cripple the GAA.It'll make it easier for clubs and counties to schedule games, training and to get younger players involved. Will potentially be a bigger plus to attract sponsors. I'm convinced that the GAA are nowhere close to realising the marketing potential that it has. They have taken Cúl Camps for granted, what would other sports organisatuons do if they had that every simmer to bring on new players and keep them in their sport? Look at how LIDL have benefitted from LGFA. But the politics of it, changing a few sexist atitudes and a lot of bruised egos will make it difficult to set up."
I'd have confidence in Mary McAleese in making it happen. She won't take any auld *****. It makes complete sense to have all organisations under one umbrella.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 1301 - 06/05/2025 12:50:04    2607074

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It won't cripple the GAA.It'll make it easier for clubs and counties to schedule games, training and to get younger players involved. Will potentially be a bigger plus to attract sponsors. I'm convinced that the GAA are nowhere close to realising the marketing potential that it has. They have taken Cúl Camps for granted, what would other sports organisatuons do if they had that every simmer to bring on new players and keep them in their sport? Look at how LIDL have benefitted from LGFA. But the politics of it, changing a few sexist atitudes and a lot of bruised egos will make it difficult to set up."
How have Lidl benefited? In real terms?

boxtyburgerbuns (Leitrim) - Posts: 284 - 06/05/2025 12:50:22    2607075

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "The first thing the ladies will demand is proper facilities, toilets etc.
There wouldn't have ever been a ladies Football or camogie association if the old f*rts in the GAA had welcomed women in the first place."
Sure there's absolutely nothing stopping them trying to obtain their own grounds and facilities as it stands. And fundraising for that.

boxtyburgerbuns (Leitrim) - Posts: 284 - 06/05/2025 12:51:38    2607076

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "The first thing the ladies will demand is proper facilities, toilets etc.
There wouldn't have ever been a ladies Football or camogie association if the old f*rts in the GAA had welcomed women in the first place."
Camogie Association was formed in 1904 and records are sketchy about its establishment, but a little history lesson for you in relation to the LGFA:

It was formed in 1974 after ladies football began to grow in popularity from the mid-1960s onwards. Many of the people involved in its establishment were already well-established and experienced GAA administrators. But rather than go to the GAA to ask them to organise and run ladies football as well, they took a conscious and deliberate decision themselves to form a new and separate association. There were many reasons for this but the chief ones were that they wanted autonomy over things like playing rules and fixtures.

So, it wasn't a case of "the GAA not welcoming women in the first place". Instead, it was that ladies football didn't want to be part of the GAA, and wanted its own organisation instead.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 06/05/2025 13:15:02    2607085

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Replying To boxtyburgerbuns:  "How have Lidl benefited? In real terms?"
They have brand awareness amongst the GAA public. We've two daughters playing LGFA and my wife would shop there regularly knowing that they have an association with LGFA. They have a LGFA Club Rewards Scheme. I was at Feile in Sumerhill last week and one club had a Lidl sponsored jersies. Super Valu have a GAA association too though not sure if they have a vlclub rewards scheme. Supermacs worth mentioning too for all their GAA and other sports sponsorship. It's a good question how they have benefitted in real terms though. I can't answer that. I'm not a fan of some of their LGFA TV ads, particularly the glass wall one. LGFA can be great games, they should promote them more positively.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7970 - 06/05/2025 13:42:53    2607093

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It won't cripple the GAA.It'll make it easier for clubs and counties to schedule games, training and to get younger players involved. Will potentially be a bigger plus to attract sponsors. I'm convinced that the GAA are nowhere close to realising the marketing potential that it has. They have taken Cúl Camps for granted, what would other sports organisatuons do if they had that every simmer to bring on new players and keep them in their sport? Look at how LIDL have benefitted from LGFA. But the politics of it, changing a few sexist atitudes and a lot of bruised egos will make it difficult to set up."
Integration is a whole other issue and when you get down to the mechanics of it, is far more complex than simply "changing a few sexist attitudes" and giving "the women" equal treatment.

There are even some areas in which they probably wouldn't want equal treatment, and I'll give you two examples:

First is choice of clubs. For example, here in Wexford at the moment, all three Associations have different rules re. club catchment areas. A girl can play camogie with one club and football with another, even if her camogie club offers football as well. A boy in a dual club can't choose to play just one code with that club, and the other code with a different club.

Happens a lot in my own place, where camogie is well-established, but where LGFA was set up only a couple of years ago and where the club is still relatively weak and finding its feet. Girls who are strong in football play their camogie here all right, but opt to go to a different (and stronger) nearby LGFA club, that tends to operate around Div. 1 in their competitions rather than Div. 4 or 5. But on the assumption that the same rules would have to apply to both genders if there was just one association after integration, they'd no longer be able to make that choice, and would have to play their football in Div. 5 rather than Div. 1 so long as they wanted to keep playing their camogie here too.

Second one is fixtures. It's easy here for camogie or LGFA to get an underage championship match postponed if a number of girls are away on holiday or whatever. All that has to happen is the clubs agree a new date and arrange a referee.

But for the boys, the only way a championship match can be postponed is if there's a bereavement in the immediate family of one of the players. If you look like being short a few players because lads are away on holiday or playing a soccer match or something instead, you have to suck it up - either field a team somehow, or else concede a walkover.

So again, if the same rule for boys also applied to girls, the girls' side of things wouldn't like that either.

Anyway, they're just two of the "nuts and bolts" issues involved in making integration happen. It's nowhere near as simple as people on the outside think.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 06/05/2025 13:45:25    2607095

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It won't cripple the GAA.It'll make it easier for clubs and counties to schedule games, training and to get younger players involved. Will potentially be a bigger plus to attract sponsors. I'm convinced that the GAA are nowhere close to realising the marketing potential that it has. They have taken Cúl Camps for granted, what would other sports organisatuons do if they had that every simmer to bring on new players and keep them in their sport? Look at how LIDL have benefitted from LGFA. But the politics of it, changing a few sexist atitudes and a lot of bruised egos will make it difficult to set up."
Incidentally, not sure what you mean about "taking Cúl Camps for granted".

Who do you think organises them in the first place?

And do you not realise that the FAI and IRFU organise similar Summer Camps too?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 06/05/2025 13:46:36    2607096

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Replying To Square_B:  "Plans are afoot to merge the 3 organisations by 2027."
It was initially hoped that it would happen by 2026, but the 2 ladies organisations were too far apart on some issues.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 06/05/2025 14:05:43    2607105

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Camogie Association was formed in 1904 and records are sketchy about its establishment, but a little history lesson for you in relation to the LGFA:

It was formed in 1974 after ladies football began to grow in popularity from the mid-1960s onwards. Many of the people involved in its establishment were already well-established and experienced GAA administrators. But rather than go to the GAA to ask them to organise and run ladies football as well, they took a conscious and deliberate decision themselves to form a new and separate association. There were many reasons for this but the chief ones were that they wanted autonomy over things like playing rules and fixtures.

So, it wasn't a case of "the GAA not welcoming women in the first place". Instead, it was that ladies football didn't want to be part of the GAA, and wanted its own organisation instead."
Maybe ye had ladies toilets and dressing rooms in Wexford in the 1970's but there weren't any in Mayo.

The GAA never set up a ladies competition - therefore they set up their own.
Why should women have had to go to the GAA and ask them to set up a competition? Your history lesson has a big hole in it.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1382 - 06/05/2025 14:10:57    2607107

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Replying To boxtyburgerbuns:  "How have Lidl benefited? In real terms?"
They have brand awareness amongst the GAA public. Just my opinion though. We've two daughters playing LGFA and my wife would shop there regularly knowing that they have an association with LGFA. They have a LGFA Club Rewards Scheme. I was at Feile in Sumerhill last week and one club had a Lidl sponsored jersies. Super Valu have a GAA association too though not sure if they have a vlclub rewards scheme. Supermacs worth mentioning too for all their GAA and other sports sponsorship. It's a good question how they have benefitted in real terms though. I can't answer that. I'm not a fan of some of their LGFA TV ads, particularly the glass wall one. LGFA can be great games, they should promote them more positively.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7970 - 06/05/2025 14:11:58    2607109

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Camogie Association was formed in 1904 and records are sketchy about its establishment, but a little history lesson for you in relation to the LGFA:

It was formed in 1974 after ladies football began to grow in popularity from the mid-1960s onwards. Many of the people involved in its establishment were already well-established and experienced GAA administrators. But rather than go to the GAA to ask them to organise and run ladies football as well, they took a conscious and deliberate decision themselves to form a new and separate association. There were many reasons for this but the chief ones were that they wanted autonomy over things like playing rules and fixtures.

So, it wasn't a case of "the GAA not welcoming women in the first place". Instead, it was that ladies football didn't want to be part of the GAA, and wanted its own organisation instead."
THere is a hole in your history there.

The GAA was set up as a mens only sporting organization - hence the ladies went on their own.
It wasn't like the GAA were setting up ladies competitions and the women went off on their own.
There wasn't even a ladies toilet in a GAA club ground up to the 1990's

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1382 - 06/05/2025 14:55:03    2607126

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Replying To boxtyburgerbuns:  "How have Lidl benefited? In real terms?"
Lidl got terrific brand association with something going well and of interest to the mams who do the shopping, all with their 'we all do the same' bull

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 571 - 06/05/2025 15:08:17    2607130

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "The first thing the ladies will demand is proper facilities, toilets etc.
There wouldn't have ever been a ladies Football or camogie association if the old f*rts in the GAA had welcomed women in the first place."
Maybe in your county but not in ours.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 498 - 06/05/2025 15:21:20    2607135

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "THere is a hole in your history there.

The GAA was set up as a mens only sporting organization - hence the ladies went on their own.
It wasn't like the GAA were setting up ladies competitions and the women went off on their own.
There wasn't even a ladies toilet in a GAA club ground up to the 1990's"
None so blind. Roll eyes emoji.

Yes, the GAA was set up as a men's only organisation. In the 1880s. Society was very different then. Very little women's sport being played anywhere in the world apart from the ladies of the gentry class in the UK playing "gentle" sports like tennis and croquet.

As stated, the reasons why the Camogie Association was then formed independently of the GAA in 1904 are lost in the mists of time. But it's a fact that when organised ladies football was being established, the people involved didn't want it to be part of the GAA. The GAA indicated it would be open to taking it under its wing, but the people involved in ladies football wanted to operate it themselves, separately.

Your "point" about toilets is bizarre. All I'll say is that the older part of my own club's clubhouse was opened during centenary year 1984. It's had separate ladies and mens toilets right from the start.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 06/05/2025 16:08:13    2607158

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Maybe in your county but not in ours."
So your telling me that every club in Monaghan has dressing rooms with mens and ladies toilets or has showers with cubicles or seperate mens and ladies changing facilities? I doubt that very much.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1382 - 06/05/2025 16:45:32    2607165

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "They have brand awareness amongst the GAA public. Just my opinion though. We've two daughters playing LGFA and my wife would shop there regularly knowing that they have an association with LGFA. They have a LGFA Club Rewards Scheme. I was at Feile in Sumerhill last week and one club had a Lidl sponsored jersies. Super Valu have a GAA association too though not sure if they have a vlclub rewards scheme. Supermacs worth mentioning too for all their GAA and other sports sponsorship. It's a good question how they have benefitted in real terms though. I can't answer that. I'm not a fan of some of their LGFA TV ads, particularly the glass wall one. LGFA can be great games, they should promote them more positively."
Yeah, that glass wall ad has a sort of "us against them" theme to it. It shouldn't be that way. We can all work together

streaker (Galway) - Posts: 512 - 06/05/2025 16:48:07    2607167

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Replying To streaker:  "Yeah, that glass wall ad has a sort of "us against them" theme to it. It shouldn't be that way. We can all work together"
One of the lines is fill every seat at every game. Did you ever hear such nonsense. For a start a lot of them don't even have seats. Secondly they can't even fill the seats at the men's games. So how can they expect to fill them at ladies games.

bláthach (Leitrim) - Posts: 77 - 06/05/2025 17:38:50    2607182

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "So your telling me that every club in Monaghan has dressing rooms with mens and ladies toilets or has showers with cubicles or seperate mens and ladies changing facilities? I doubt that very much."
You're becoming increasingly bizarre.

Not even Croke Park has separate dedicated men's dressing rooms with associated toilets and showers, and separate women's dressing rooms with associated toilets and showers.

Either a dressing room and its facilities is being used by a men's team or a women's team at any one time. They're not used by a mixture of the two at the same time.

Do you think there should be completely separate men's and women's facilities? In that case, you'd need eight dressing rooms and eight sets of showers/toilets at every venue that might ever host a double-header: four men's dressing rooms in case it's a hurling or football double-header, and four separate women's dressing rooms in case it was a camogie or LGFA double-header.

And at least four of them would stand empty at any given time. Six would be empty if it was just a single-header match. Is that really what you're proposing?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 06/05/2025 18:26:08    2607197

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "So your telling me that every club in Monaghan has dressing rooms with mens and ladies toilets or has showers with cubicles or seperate mens and ladies changing facilities? I doubt that very much."
Our club would have the usual set up, we have several changing rooms that are used by both men and women, though not at the same time. We don't have toilets in the changing rooms, there are men's and women's toilets in the corridor all the changing rooms are off of, and separate men's and women's toilets upstairs in the former bar area, and downstairs adjoining the hall. AFAIK it's been like that since the 50s.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 06/05/2025 18:40:18    2607200

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "None so blind. Roll eyes emoji.

Yes, the GAA was set up as a men's only organisation. In the 1880s. Society was very different then. Very little women's sport being played anywhere in the world apart from the ladies of the gentry class in the UK playing "gentle" sports like tennis and croquet.

As stated, the reasons why the Camogie Association was then formed independently of the GAA in 1904 are lost in the mists of time. But it's a fact that when organised ladies football was being established, the people involved didn't want it to be part of the GAA. The GAA indicated it would be open to taking it under its wing, but the people involved in ladies football wanted to operate it themselves, separately.

Your "point" about toilets is bizarre. All I'll say is that the older part of my own club's clubhouse was opened during centenary year 1984. It's had separate ladies and mens toilets right from the start."
Women didn't even have the vote back then. In fact all men didnt have a vote either in the 1880s, it was dependent on property.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 06/05/2025 18:43:47    2607202

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