(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post
|
Impact? Round 1 is currently played over two weekends. Have the playoff round the week after the Leinster and Ulster finals. Round 1 on one weekend only then the week after that. I'd have sympathy for Antrim or Wicklow missing out on such playoffs but there has to be a qualifying standard. The provincial championships are all in without any qualifying criteria. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8727 - 22/04/2025 22:36:17 2603774 Link 0 |
|
I've described the impact. Division 2 loses its importance, the league in general loses its importance, Tailteann cup becomes more of a losers competition. How is this better than the old qualifiers? How does it affect the flow of the season? League to Provincials to single elimination playoff to double elimination. Provincial finals are still damp squibs. You don't improve jeopardy because no a team could lose every game in division 2 and still retain a place in the All Ireland playoffs. It's a daft idea! Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4492 - 23/04/2025 10:29:01 2603810 Link 0 |
|
One of the benefits of the round robin group stage was that for the first time teams were guaranteed to play at least one championship game at home. With the double elimination format that guarantee is gone. Some teams will not play a home championship game in any given season. edu (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 23/04/2025 12:13:23 2603840 Link 1 |
|
have at least 2 home championship games. Anthony Daly recently mentioned the massive benefit to Ennis of the annual 2 home games in the Munster Championship"]Home games, ground rental, programme sales commission, money for local businesses, bit of an occasion etc but "We want jeopardy" won out.....
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2260 - 23/04/2025 12:28:29 2603849 Link 0 |
|
I agree for all those reasons. Totally daft idea.
CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 133 - 23/04/2025 13:34:04 2603862 Link 0 |
|
Division 1 has a tough battle to avoid relegation. Low impact on All Ireland qualification isn't impacting on that. Division 2 would still have it's battle to avoid relegation. I don't Cork or Louth would want to be unseeded either in a playoff draw. Division 3 would gain a battle for the playoff spots and most likely the Division 4 winner would also qualify for the playoffs. 3 and 4 will have more to play for. While possibly a reasonable number of people would agree with a 12:10:10 split, 16:8:8 might be more realistic. Counties missing out on the playoffs should enter a Tier 3 Cup - with the Tier 3 winner guaranteed a playoff spot in the following year. "How is this better than the old qualifiers?" - The reason I'm against all in for the qualifiers is that there is no qualifying standard for provincial championships. The playoffs can set a qualifying standard. "How does it affect the flow of the season?" - The provincial championships and the playoffs should be about qualifying for the All Ireland. I agree with your point on knockout playoff to double elimination. It should be either qualifying for a group stage which has a clearer distinction that you have qualified for a tournament or straight knockout - but the "New Format 2026 All Ireland" seems in place for the foreseeable. "Provincial finals are still damp squibs." - I don't agree with lopsided provincial championships and I don't agree with rewarding provincial runners up either. Hard to see an agreement to change that any time soon however. Best of luck with getting an agreement that does change it! "You don't improve jeopardy because no a team could lose every game in division 2 and still retain a place in the All Ireland playoffs." - A team could lose every game in Division 1 and Division 2. They would still have to win the playoff though. In the case of a relegated Division 2 team like Westmeath - they'd be looking at drawing a seeded opponent like Derry or Monaghan. Cork would be avoiding seeded opponents. Derry after losing to Donegal would be looking at a potential banana skin - a bit of jeopardy. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8727 - 23/04/2025 17:20:18 2603908 Link 0 |
|
Home games, ground rental, programme sales commission, money for local businesses, bit of an occasion etc but "We want jeopardy" won out....."]Two home games would be good if there was an agreeable format. The "New Format 2026 All Ireland" will guarantee provincial finalists with 1 home game in Round 1. 4 groups of 4 with the top 2 only going to the quarter finals could guarantee provincial finalists with 2 home games and league qualifiers with 1 home game. Maybe in time they might make that small change back to group format. Avoiding a dead rubber in Round 3 seems to be a big influence in the format decision. The carrot of the "New Format 2026 All Ireland" guaranteeing home advantage in Round 1 for provincial finalists could be key for that agreed format making advancing to provincial finals being seen as more worthwhile pursuing. Still the small matter of some carrot for winning the province. Even allowing for provincial winners to avoid each other in Round 2A would be something. Provincial winners would then avoid each other until the semi finals if the remain unbeaten. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8727 - 23/04/2025 23:16:11 2603960 Link 0 |
|
@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8716 - 23/04/2025 omahant (USA) - Posts: 3207 - 24/04/2025 03:28:24 2603974 Link 0 |
|
Home games, ground rental, programme sales commission, money for local businesses, bit of an occasion etc but "We want jeopardy" won out....."]Two home games would be good if there was an agreeable format. The "New Format 2026 All Ireland" will guarantee provincial finalists with 1 home game in Round 1. 4 groups of 4 with the top 2 only going to the quarter finals could guarantee provincial finalists with 2 home games and league qualifiers with 1 home game. Maybe in time they might make that small change back to group format. Avoiding a dead rubber in Round 3 seems to be a big influence in the format decision. The carrot of the "New Format 2026 All Ireland" guaranteeing home advantage in Round 1 for provincial finalists could be key for that agreed format making advancing to provincial finals being seen as more worthwhile pursuing. Still the small matter of some carrot for winning the province. Even allowing for provincial winners to avoid each other in Round 2A would be something. Provincial winners would then avoid each other until the semi finals if the remain unbeaten."]This minimum qualifying standard for Provincial championships is a real stumbling block for you. Why does there have to be one. They take 4 weeks to complete and the gaps in quality mainly happen around the very top and very bottom, there's a decent enough amount of bunching in the middle, so it's quite hard to thin the field to effectively eliminate mis matches. The big issue with mismatches is that they happen too far along in the season. I really don't understand you though. You talk about how there's not going to be much movement from this current system and then go on to propose group stage provincials with not all teams participating. That is way more of a fantastical scenario than say playing league and provincials in parallel or only having provincial champions qualify directly for the All Ireland. You really clearly don't understand the needs of weaker counties either. They are an afterthought in your eyes. The 16, 8, 8 split is another bad idea. That third tier would be awful, what engagement would there be in that. Why is it necessary given there is already a division 4. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4492 - 24/04/2025 09:43:16 2603991 Link 0 |
|
Home games, ground rental, programme sales commission, money for local businesses, bit of an occasion etc but "We want jeopardy" won out....."]Two home games would be good if there was an agreeable format. The "New Format 2026 All Ireland" will guarantee provincial finalists with 1 home game in Round 1. 4 groups of 4 with the top 2 only going to the quarter finals could guarantee provincial finalists with 2 home games and league qualifiers with 1 home game. Maybe in time they might make that small change back to group format. Avoiding a dead rubber in Round 3 seems to be a big influence in the format decision. The carrot of the "New Format 2026 All Ireland" guaranteeing home advantage in Round 1 for provincial finalists could be key for that agreed format making advancing to provincial finals being seen as more worthwhile pursuing. Still the small matter of some carrot for winning the province. Even allowing for provincial winners to avoid each other in Round 2A would be something. Provincial winners would then avoid each other until the semi finals if the remain unbeaten."]This minimum qualifying standard for Provincial championships is a real stumbling block for you. Why does there have to be one. They take 4 weeks to complete and the gaps in quality mainly happen around the very top and very bottom, there's a decent enough amount of bunching in the middle, so it's quite hard to thin the field to effectively eliminate mis matches. The big issue with mismatches is that they happen too far along in the season. I really don't understand you though. You talk about how there's not going to be much movement from this current system and then go on to propose group stage provincials with not all teams participating. That is way more of a fantastical scenario than say playing league and provincials in parallel or only having provincial champions qualify directly for the All Ireland. You really clearly don't understand the needs of weaker counties either. They are an afterthought in your eyes. The 16, 8, 8 split is another bad idea. That third tier would be awful, what engagement would there be in that. Why is it necessary given there is already a division 4."]Ahem, I'm a Kerry hurling supporter. I'm not expecting easy access to the Munster hurling championship! legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8727 - 24/04/2025 10:35:07 2604000 Link 0 |
|
I've mused over that option before as well. You'll still have the situation though where Donegal are playing Monaghan, Kerry are playing Cork, Dublin are playing Meath and Galway are playing Roscommon - and all 8 are already qualified for the All-Ireland. Is the carrot of home advantage sufficient or the stick of a risk of elimination? 3 advancing from groups of 4 offered the carrot of direct to the quarter finals for group winners and home advantage in preliminary quarter-finals for group runners up. It was widely perceived to have low jeopardy and not enough stick! legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8727 - 24/04/2025 11:05:47 2604005 Link 0 |
|
@The 16, 8, 8 split is another bad idea. That third tier would be awful, what engagement would there be in that. Why is it necessary given there is already a division 4. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3207 - 24/04/2025 14:26:07 2604054 Link 0 |
|
@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8718 - 24/04/2025 omahant (USA) - Posts: 3207 - 24/04/2025 14:37:50 2604057 Link 0 |
|
I've never really understood why those make sense. What are the stakes again in those? The middle tier semifinalists get a top tier place? Is there anything up for grabs for tier 3? Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4492 - 24/04/2025 15:14:45 2604067 Link 0 |
|
Home games, ground rental, programme sales commission, money for local businesses, bit of an occasion etc but "We want jeopardy" won out....."]Two home games would be good if there was an agreeable format. The "New Format 2026 All Ireland" will guarantee provincial finalists with 1 home game in Round 1. 4 groups of 4 with the top 2 only going to the quarter finals could guarantee provincial finalists with 2 home games and league qualifiers with 1 home game. Maybe in time they might make that small change back to group format. Avoiding a dead rubber in Round 3 seems to be a big influence in the format decision. The carrot of the "New Format 2026 All Ireland" guaranteeing home advantage in Round 1 for provincial finalists could be key for that agreed format making advancing to provincial finals being seen as more worthwhile pursuing. Still the small matter of some carrot for winning the province. Even allowing for provincial winners to avoid each other in Round 2A would be something. Provincial winners would then avoid each other until the semi finals if the remain unbeaten."]This minimum qualifying standard for Provincial championships is a real stumbling block for you. Why does there have to be one. They take 4 weeks to complete and the gaps in quality mainly happen around the very top and very bottom, there's a decent enough amount of bunching in the middle, so it's quite hard to thin the field to effectively eliminate mis matches. The big issue with mismatches is that they happen too far along in the season. I really don't understand you though. You talk about how there's not going to be much movement from this current system and then go on to propose group stage provincials with not all teams participating. That is way more of a fantastical scenario than say playing league and provincials in parallel or only having provincial champions qualify directly for the All Ireland. You really clearly don't understand the needs of weaker counties either. They are an afterthought in your eyes. The 16, 8, 8 split is another bad idea. That third tier would be awful, what engagement would there be in that. Why is it necessary given there is already a division 4."]Ahem, I'm a Kerry hurling supporter. I'm not expecting easy access to the Munster hurling championship!"]Hurling and football have very different traditions in terms of entry into Provincial championships. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4492 - 24/04/2025 15:16:28 2604068 Link 0 |
|
("Hurling and football have very different traditions in terms of entry into Provincial championships. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8727 - 24/04/2025 15:47:14 2604073 Link 0 |
|
In the scenario where Tailteann winners miss out on their provincial final - 24 counties to playoff for 7 places. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8727 - 24/04/2025 16:32:26 2604088 Link 0 |
|
There are three undeniable facts of the football championship tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1316 - 24/04/2025 17:37:06 2604096 Link 0 |
|
I just still don't see the point in having the main competition be so short and who's to care about all the faff that precedes it.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4492 - 24/04/2025 20:18:30 2604115 Link 0 |
|
The league is a balanced competition. 7 games at a fair level. A consistent format when there is a lot of tinkering elsewhere. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8727 - 24/04/2025 22:05:02 2604131 Link 0 |