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Was Joey Barton Correct When He Said Woman Should Not Discuss Mens Sport

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I hear Tipp legend Effin' Eddie will be co-commentating on the Champions League games for VM next season. Plus one or 2 royal events for the BBC

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1060 - 11/12/2023 13:47:17    2516355

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Replying To Roger:  "It's just sexism and most men don't even realise it. It's like the lad who can't cope if the car salesperson is a woman, or gets nervous if their solicitor is a woman. They are more comfortable in male company and are all in favour of equality but struggle all the same.
Physically we don't expect women to match men but after that there are few differences, and punditry is not determined by strength or genetics.
Can you imagine if women said they would not deal with a male gynaecologist during birth because they had no experience.
Rate pundits by their ability not their gender. There are some pundits out there that I dread, but their gender is not the determining factor."
Some of the men who don't like female pundits are not necessarily sexist.

When I was young the football pundit on RTE was Enda Colleran (who from memory was good by the way), a former Galway 3 time all Ireland winner.

Traditionally in all sports TV commentators had played at the highest level, in GAA this meant the men's county game, you'd never see club players commenting on inter county games on TV.
If you had club players commenting and criticising county players people it just wouldn't work as well, the viewers would just say they are not any more qualified to talk about the game than me.

Many men just feel the same when women commentators offer criticisms of male inter county players.
I've said maybe some women watching like hearing a female voice, that's just me guessing why female commentators come in over the last few years, I've never asked a woman their opinions on this.

You talked about men complaining about women commentators being similar to some men not being comfortable with female solicitors, a better analogy might be people being uncomfortable with getting advice from a trainee solicitor rather than a talking to an experienced solicitor.

This isn't to say you have to have played at the top to understand the game and what it takes to win at the top level (Sean Boylan was from a hurling background before being Meath manager), just achieving at the top level defiantly increases the credibility of what you say to the watching public.

GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 34 - 11/12/2023 14:48:39    2516363

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Replying To GreenMan1987:  "Some of the men who don't like female pundits are not necessarily sexist.

When I was young the football pundit on RTE was Enda Colleran (who from memory was good by the way), a former Galway 3 time all Ireland winner.

Traditionally in all sports TV commentators had played at the highest level, in GAA this meant the men's county game, you'd never see club players commenting on inter county games on TV.
If you had club players commenting and criticising county players people it just wouldn't work as well, the viewers would just say they are not any more qualified to talk about the game than me.

Many men just feel the same when women commentators offer criticisms of male inter county players.
I've said maybe some women watching like hearing a female voice, that's just me guessing why female commentators come in over the last few years, I've never asked a woman their opinions on this.

You talked about men complaining about women commentators being similar to some men not being comfortable with female solicitors, a better analogy might be people being uncomfortable with getting advice from a trainee solicitor rather than a talking to an experienced solicitor.

This isn't to say you have to have played at the top to understand the game and what it takes to win at the top level (Sean Boylan was from a hurling background before being Meath manager), just achieving at the top level defiantly increases the credibility of what you say to the watching public."
So with that understanding you would agree the likes of Des Cahill, Marty Morrissey and the great Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh shouldn't be commentators?

goreyll (Wexford) - Posts: 110 - 11/12/2023 15:46:11    2516373

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Replying To goreyll:  "So with that understanding you would agree the likes of Des Cahill, Marty Morrissey and the great Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh shouldn't be commentators?"
In the context of this topic when I'm talking about commentators I'm talking about the people who are there to provide expert analysis (eg. Ciaran Whelan) rather than the anchors (eg. Des Cahill/ Marty Morrissey).

I agree Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh was great by the way.

GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 34 - 11/12/2023 18:47:10    2516395

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Replying To GreenMan1987:  "Some of the men who don't like female pundits are not necessarily sexist.

When I was young the football pundit on RTE was Enda Colleran (who from memory was good by the way), a former Galway 3 time all Ireland winner.

Traditionally in all sports TV commentators had played at the highest level, in GAA this meant the men's county game, you'd never see club players commenting on inter county games on TV.
If you had club players commenting and criticising county players people it just wouldn't work as well, the viewers would just say they are not any more qualified to talk about the game than me.

Many men just feel the same when women commentators offer criticisms of male inter county players.
I've said maybe some women watching like hearing a female voice, that's just me guessing why female commentators come in over the last few years, I've never asked a woman their opinions on this.

You talked about men complaining about women commentators being similar to some men not being comfortable with female solicitors, a better analogy might be people being uncomfortable with getting advice from a trainee solicitor rather than a talking to an experienced solicitor.

This isn't to say you have to have played at the top to understand the game and what it takes to win at the top level (Sean Boylan was from a hurling background before being Meath manager), just achieving at the top level defiantly increases the credibility of what you say to the watching public."
"Many men just feel the same when women commentators offer criticisms of male inter county players."

Many men, is that a fact? Please could you provide us with the evidence of this (citations, links)?

"I've said maybe some women watching like hearing a female voice, that's just me guessing why female commentators come in over the last few years"

I'm a man (long in the tooth), who thinks some of the women commentators are very good, just like some of the men commentators are also very good. When I listen to what they have to say, I don't judge them by their sex.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2442 - 11/12/2023 20:43:26    2516401

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""Many men just feel the same when women commentators offer criticisms of male inter county players."

Many men, is that a fact? Please could you provide us with the evidence of this (citations, links)?

"I've said maybe some women watching like hearing a female voice, that's just me guessing why female commentators come in over the last few years"

I'm a man (long in the tooth), who thinks some of the women commentators are very good, just like some of the men commentators are also very good. When I listen to what they have to say, I don't judge them by their sex."
'Many men just feel the same when women commentators offer criticisms of male inter county players' is an obversation I made from talking to other men. Obversations are probably as good as you will get on a topic as I doubt there has been much opinion polling done on this.
To be honest let alone men I've heard my mother making a similar comment about female pundits, saying it's funny to hear them offering analysis when obviously the men's game is so different and more psychical to the women's game.
On this topic some of the most popular posts are posts that are far more disparaging of women pundits than me.

Ultimately for me this topic comes down to whether you think TV pundits should have have experience playing at the highest level.
I just think having this experience gives male, ex inter county players more credibility to be pundits.

GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 34 - 12/12/2023 09:23:33    2516426

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Replying To GreenMan1987:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""Many men just feel the same when women commentators offer criticisms of male inter county players."

Many men, is that a fact? Please could you provide us with the evidence of this (citations, links)?

"I've said maybe some women watching like hearing a female voice, that's just me guessing why female commentators come in over the last few years"

I'm a man (long in the tooth), who thinks some of the women commentators are very good, just like some of the men commentators are also very good. When I listen to what they have to say, I don't judge them by their sex."
'Many men just feel the same when women commentators offer criticisms of male inter county players' is an obversation I made from talking to other men. Obversations are probably as good as you will get on a topic as I doubt there has been much opinion polling done on this.
To be honest let alone men I've heard my mother making a similar comment about female pundits, saying it's funny to hear them offering analysis when obviously the men's game is so different and more psychical to the women's game.
On this topic some of the most popular posts are posts that are far more disparaging of women pundits than me.

Ultimately for me this topic comes down to whether you think TV pundits should have have experience playing at the highest level.
I just think having this experience gives male, ex inter county players more credibility to be pundits."
Good stuff Joey.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7882 - 12/12/2023 09:45:38    2516428

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I don't think any of the female pundits in either GAA or soccer are good. Yes there are bad male pundits as well which is the number one counter argument but there are also some very good ones which is the key difference. Some of best pundits in my opinion are Tomas O'Se, Peter Canavan, Anthony Daly, James O'Donoghue, Gary Neville, Roy Keane and Jamie Carragher. For various reasons I never see a woman reaching that level as a pundit in the men's game. I don't have a problem with female presenters but I prefer male commentators as well. Ladies sport should have all female pundits and men's sports all male pundits, simple and makes sense, no one should be able to be offended or outraged if that was the case.

Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 957 - 12/12/2023 10:20:16    2516445

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Replying To GreenMan1987:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""Many men just feel the same when women commentators offer criticisms of male inter county players."

Many men, is that a fact? Please could you provide us with the evidence of this (citations, links)?

"I've said maybe some women watching like hearing a female voice, that's just me guessing why female commentators come in over the last few years"

I'm a man (long in the tooth), who thinks some of the women commentators are very good, just like some of the men commentators are also very good. When I listen to what they have to say, I don't judge them by their sex."
'Many men just feel the same when women commentators offer criticisms of male inter county players' is an obversation I made from talking to other men. Obversations are probably as good as you will get on a topic as I doubt there has been much opinion polling done on this.
To be honest let alone men I've heard my mother making a similar comment about female pundits, saying it's funny to hear them offering analysis when obviously the men's game is so different and more psychical to the women's game.
On this topic some of the most popular posts are posts that are far more disparaging of women pundits than me.

Ultimately for me this topic comes down to whether you think TV pundits should have have experience playing at the highest level.
I just think having this experience gives male, ex inter county players more credibility to be pundits."
There are people who never played at the highest level managing and coaching at the highest level in both sports.

While including women on punditry panel is inclusive, it's not being done for the "woke agenda". Corporations like the premier league, the GAA!, sky etc only care about the bottom line and including women is to expand the audience and participation and make €€€€€€€€€€€€€

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12115 - 13/12/2023 11:03:38    2516586

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Also I assume the lads that hate listening to women and only want men that played at the highest level constantly scoff at male sports writers and analysts or even worse the fans on twitch or whatever streaming platforms. I doubt it somehow.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12115 - 13/12/2023 12:02:23    2516594

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Arrigo Sacchi the great AC Milan manager said "I didn't know that to become a jockey you had to be a horse first".He was responding to questions about his qualifications because he never played professional football.Boy did he prove them wrong.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1054 - 13/12/2023 16:12:00    2516636

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Because it's new and you have already decided you don't like it. I don't need commentators male or female to dictate my mood when watching a match."
It ain't that new, and I definitely don't like it.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8584 - 13/12/2023 22:20:30    2516671

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Replying To realdub:  "It ain't that new, and I definitely don't like it."
It isn't new. So this was happening 6 or 7 years ago? Nope it wasn't. It's gas lads are willing to listen to the likes of Micheal Owen and Steve Mc on commentary but not the ladies.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7882 - 14/12/2023 00:46:28    2516689

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Replying To gunman:  "Arrigo Sacchi the great AC Milan manager said "I didn't know that to become a jockey you had to be a horse first".He was responding to questions about his qualifications because he never played professional football.Boy did he prove them wrong."
Question:
If it shouldn't be a qualification that you need to have played (or managed) at the top to to be a pundit would it be OK to get ex-players who never made county to be pundits on RTE?.

GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 34 - 14/12/2023 07:53:19    2516691

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Replying To GreenMan1987:  "Question:
If it shouldn't be a qualification that you need to have played (or managed) at the top to to be a pundit would it be OK to get ex-players who never made county to be pundits on RTE?."
Green Man from County Meath of 1027Posts

Tomsmith here

Green Man you post a very relevant question which has many different answers.
I posed this question to the great Mrs T who responded that if would assist/help in the veracity of a contribution if the expert giving the contribution had a proficiency or experience in the subject .
So according to the great MRs T it would assist if the person giving an contribution on a matter had performed at ahigh level on that issue
So now green man that is an answer from the great Mrs T for you

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3855 - 14/12/2023 09:42:59    2516704

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Replying To GreenMan1987:  "Question:
If it shouldn't be a qualification that you need to have played (or managed) at the top to to be a pundit would it be OK to get ex-players who never made county to be pundits on RTE?."
Marty Morrissey wasn't exactly a top player and he is the biggest GAA pundit in Sport for RTE!

Chris6788 (Cavan) - Posts: 8 - 14/12/2023 09:52:16    2516709

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Replying To Chris6788:  "Marty Morrissey wasn't exactly a top player and he is the biggest GAA pundit in Sport for RTE!"
Marty Morrisey is a presenter and commentator, he's not their to give an expert analysis as the ex players are.
I have nothing against women in any job,
my issue is with this current agenda that is foisted upon us, and all it does is have the opposite effect to the one intended imo.
If you are good enough for the job and your cv qualifies you then it doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman and that's the way it should be,
we do not need affirmative action here.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2733 - 14/12/2023 12:59:42    2516747

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Green Man from County Meath of 1027Posts

Tomsmith here

Green Man you post a very relevant question which has many different answers.
I posed this question to the great Mrs T who responded that if would assist/help in the veracity of a contribution if the expert giving the contribution had a proficiency or experience in the subject .
So according to the great MRs T it would assist if the person giving an contribution on a matter had performed at ahigh level on that issue
So now green man that is an answer from the great Mrs T for you"
Wasn't Rachel Wyse recommended by the famous Joe Brolly. He has constantly praised and extolled her capabilities as Sky Sports GAA commentator. Listen to the great Derry barrister!

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 214 - 16/12/2023 22:40:44    2517111

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Ryan Team from away down in Cork

Tomsmith here .
I just wonder how Joey Barton feels now that the mainland England Gaolkeeper has scooped the BBC sports star of the year award for 2023.
I know Barton will say she won nothing, but
she did keep England in the game
She did save a penalty

So Joey where do you stand on her elevation

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3855 - 21/12/2023 09:04:00    2517521

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Marty Morrisey is a presenter and commentator, he's not their to give an expert analysis as the ex players are.
I have nothing against women in any job,
my issue is with this current agenda that is foisted upon us, and all it does is have the opposite effect to the one intended imo.
If you are good enough for the job and your cv qualifies you then it doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman and that's the way it should be,
we do not need affirmative action here."
But people on here are also complaining about women commentators....

Chris6788 (Cavan) - Posts: 8 - 21/12/2023 10:00:43    2517528

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