National Forum

Kerry GAA Thread

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "What level do Mitchells play at now actually? They're a club that I haven't heard anything about in a while. I used to drink in Eugene Creigh's pub in Boherbue well over 30 years ago. I used to hear of the halyicon days of The Mitchells back then."
I gre up Forever hearing about the great Mitchels teams but in truth in my lifetime they have been an average club .In my era they did get to one counry final but they were beaten by Laune Rangers around 1989 or thereabouts.Its been a long time since a Mitchels player was a regular with Kerry.Anthony Gleeson in the 90s probabky the last to my recollection.Mitchels have great facilities but the glory days are long gone.Now of course during Mitchels heyday the club Na Gaeil did nt exist!

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3613 - 07/12/2023 10:14:17    2515829

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "Obviously Fossa are extremely reliant on the Cliffords, but they were a whisker away from reaching the top 8 in Kerry. They've been on some journey. In their current form, they're knocking in the door.
We can pick holes in every club, I can do the same in Galway. The basic issue is that having only 8 senior clubs in a strong footballing county, seems disproportionately low. I believe Kerry has around 70 football clubs, which is more than Galway or Mayo. Having only 8 of these in senior is quite lopsided.
I've made the point before that it leads to a few of the divisional teams becoming extremely strong, as they have the pick of teams ranked 9th and below.
This makes it very difficult for actual clubs like Dingle at the moment to win a county championship.
Having at least 12 senior clubs will reduce the advantage of a few divisional teams and give the clubs a fairer chance."
You keep saying this yet Milltown lost in Munster. So surely that disproves the myth of Kerry clubs having this great advantage? Or do you have an excuse for that as well?

I asked before what's stopping any other county from having divisional teams?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 07/12/2023 11:29:43    2515843

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "East Kerry are strong because of the Cliffords and Roche. No other county players on there. Mid Kerry have Breen and nobody else of county calibre. Templenoe have more county players on their team as does Dingle, but not the Cliffords.
Seem to be making a case to lessen the competition to allow club teams to win. Noone complained when Crokes, Stacks and Strand Road ruled the roost."
Nor did anyone have any issues with East Kerry when they sent most of the 2010s as one of the weaker teams in the championship.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 07/12/2023 11:31:00    2515844

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "What level do Mitchells play at now actually? They're a club that I haven't heard anything about in a while. I used to drink in Eugene Creigh's pub in Boherbue well over 30 years ago. I used to hear of the halyicon days of The Mitchells back then."
Intermediate for a long time now. At one point in the 2010s looked like they might win it but were recently in a relegation play off.

Had great plans when they moved out of town but it hasn't worked out for them at all.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 07/12/2023 11:32:39    2515845

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Replying To oneoff:  "You keep saying this yet Milltown lost in Munster. So surely that disproves the myth of Kerry clubs having this great advantage? Or do you have an excuse for that as well?

I asked before what's stopping any other county from having divisional teams?"
You're arguing a point that I'm not even making. I think the divisional system is brilliant. It should never be gotten rid of. If other counties can replicate it, then more power to them.
My point is that having only 8 senior clubs leads to two main issues:
1. Some divisional teams become even stronger, to the point where it's very difficult for actual clubs to compete. We've seen this in recent years.
2. The Kerry intermediate winners have an advantage provincially and nationally, as the 9th ranked team in their county. This is less of an issue than the first one in my opinion though. Milltown losing this year, doesn't disprove it at all. A look at the overall record is pretty clear.

A point was made in a previous post that people weren't complaining previously. What they didn't mention is that there used more senior clubs in Kerry previously. There were a minimum of 11 clubs up until 2016, so it was less of an issue. It was reduced to 8 from then on which has made it more difficult for clubs.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1992 - 07/12/2023 15:20:30    2515875

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Replying To oneoff:  "Nor did anyone have any issues with East Kerry when they sent most of the 2010s as one of the weaker teams in the championship."
Posters are avoiding the point that Kerry junior and intermediate winning teams do well lately on the backs of tree or four gifted players and a group of dedicated support players.
It is almost as if a rule should be passed that if a team has a few outstanding players then that team should be put in the senior division.
I ask again which twelve teams should be in the senior division, which four club teams (Inter or Junior) would you promote? (No cop out saying County Board issue.)

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 741 - 07/12/2023 16:30:54    2515889

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "Posters are avoiding the point that Kerry junior and intermediate winning teams do well lately on the backs of tree or four gifted players and a group of dedicated support players.
It is almost as if a rule should be passed that if a team has a few outstanding players then that team should be put in the senior division.
I ask again which twelve teams should be in the senior division, which four club teams (Inter or Junior) would you promote? (No cop out saying County Board issue.)"
I already named the additional 4. It would naturally have to be the top 4 current Intermediate clubs. Why on earth would a Junior team be promoted to Senior?
Your argument seems to be that they're backboned by a handful of top players. Sure that's almost every senior club in the country. That's club football. In Galway most senior clubs would have a very small number of current or past county panel players. The strongest clubs like Maigh Cuilinn, Corofin and Mountbellew would have a few more.
It was Croke Park that forced Kerry to reduce from 11 to 8 senior clubs, as they wanted counties limited to a 16 team championship. However, Kerry should be allowed a different limit, given that 8 of the spots are assigned to divisional teams.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1992 - 07/12/2023 17:25:11    2515894

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "I already named the additional 4. It would naturally have to be the top 4 current Intermediate clubs. Why on earth would a Junior team be promoted to Senior?
Your argument seems to be that they're backboned by a handful of top players. Sure that's almost every senior club in the country. That's club football. In Galway most senior clubs would have a very small number of current or past county panel players. The strongest clubs like Maigh Cuilinn, Corofin and Mountbellew would have a few more.
It was Croke Park that forced Kerry to reduce from 11 to 8 senior clubs, as they wanted counties limited to a 16 team championship. However, Kerry should be allowed a different limit, given that 8 of the spots are assigned to divisional teams."
Promoting four intermediate teams would make a complete farce of the competition. Kerry would then have to promote four junior teams to intermediate to fill that void.
Kerry senior club teams have won All-Irelands four times in forty years, this will give you an idea the quality of club football in the county.
The underline objective is that individuals want any club, intermediate or junior, with two or three outstanding player be forced to compete at county senior level.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 741 - 07/12/2023 19:39:51    2515919

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "You're arguing a point that I'm not even making. I think the divisional system is brilliant. It should never be gotten rid of. If other counties can replicate it, then more power to them.
My point is that having only 8 senior clubs leads to two main issues:
1. Some divisional teams become even stronger, to the point where it's very difficult for actual clubs to compete. We've seen this in recent years.
2. The Kerry intermediate winners have an advantage provincially and nationally, as the 9th ranked team in their county. This is less of an issue than the first one in my opinion though. Milltown losing this year, doesn't disprove it at all. A look at the overall record is pretty clear.

A point was made in a previous post that people weren't complaining previously. What they didn't mention is that there used more senior clubs in Kerry previously. There were a minimum of 11 clubs up until 2016, so it was less of an issue. It was reduced to 8 from then on which has made it more difficult for clubs."
Since the changes in numbers less Kerry clubs have won Intermediate All-Irelands so where is the advantage there? What excuse do you have for the number of clubs who won before that?

When there was more than 8 clubs in the senior championship there were a lot of teams who offered absolutely nothing whatsoever. What advantage is there by having 12 senior clubs? Other than weaking divisional teams?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 07/12/2023 21:45:07    2515926

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "Promoting four intermediate teams would make a complete farce of the competition. Kerry would then have to promote four junior teams to intermediate to fill that void.
Kerry senior club teams have won All-Irelands four times in forty years, this will give you an idea the quality of club football in the county.
The underline objective is that individuals want any club, intermediate or junior, with two or three outstanding player be forced to compete at county senior level."
Since the All-Ireland senior club championships started in total 5 Kerry clubs have won it.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 07/12/2023 21:46:09    2515927

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "Promoting four intermediate teams would make a complete farce of the competition. Kerry would then have to promote four junior teams to intermediate to fill that void.
Kerry senior club teams have won All-Irelands four times in forty years, this will give you an idea the quality of club football in the county.
The underline objective is that individuals want any club, intermediate or junior, with two or three outstanding player be forced to compete at county senior level."
Having 12 senior clubs would be a farce, in a championship which had 11 clubs for years up until 2016? Was it a farce for all those years up to 2016?
It would still have 11 clubs if Croke Park hadn't brought in their ruling.
On your last point, that's nonsense. If there are 12 senior clubs and a club with a few star players can't make the top 12 then they stay intermediate.
I'm not sure why you keep talking about junior clubs being senior. They're nowhere near senior and wouldn't be candidates at all. They're ranked 25th and below.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1992 - 07/12/2023 23:25:01    2515935

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Replying To oneoff:  "Since the changes in numbers less Kerry clubs have won Intermediate All-Irelands so where is the advantage there? What excuse do you have for the number of clubs who won before that?

When there was more than 8 clubs in the senior championship there were a lot of teams who offered absolutely nothing whatsoever. What advantage is there by having 12 senior clubs? Other than weaking divisional teams?"
The advantage as I've mentioned is giving club teams a fairer chance to win a county championship. Clubs like Dingle have been very hard done by in recent years. Last year they were beaten by an East Kerry team which had the pick of Rathmore who were the 9th best club in Kerry, as well as the other clubs.
This year Mid Kerry had the Milltown lads, who were the 9th best club in Kerry.
As for the intermediate All-Ireland, even up to 2016 Kerry clubs had an advantage versus other strong football counties, as they had 11 senior clubs, versus a minimum of 16 in other counties. Still an advantage, but not as much as now. As I said, this is a secondary point. The unfairness to senior clubs is the main issue I see. A few of the divisional teams are very strong and making the championship more uncompetitive.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1992 - 08/12/2023 09:08:02    2515945

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "The advantage as I've mentioned is giving club teams a fairer chance to win a county championship. Clubs like Dingle have been very hard done by in recent years. Last year they were beaten by an East Kerry team which had the pick of Rathmore who were the 9th best club in Kerry, as well as the other clubs.
This year Mid Kerry had the Milltown lads, who were the 9th best club in Kerry.
As for the intermediate All-Ireland, even up to 2016 Kerry clubs had an advantage versus other strong football counties, as they had 11 senior clubs, versus a minimum of 16 in other counties. Still an advantage, but not as much as now. As I said, this is a secondary point. The unfairness to senior clubs is the main issue I see. A few of the divisional teams are very strong and making the championship more uncompetitive."
But like I said Kerry clubs have won less Intermediate All-Irelands since it went to 8 senior clubs. So again Where's the advantage you keep talking about?

Senior clubs have their own championship though. Strand Road won Munster by winning it last year and Dingle are in the final this year. What's unfair with that?

In last years final there was two players from Rathmore playing with East Kerry so not exactly the "pick" as you say.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 08/12/2023 11:51:46    2515978

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Replying To oneoff:  "But like I said Kerry clubs have won less Intermediate All-Irelands since it went to 8 senior clubs. So again Where's the advantage you keep talking about?

Senior clubs have their own championship though. Strand Road won Munster by winning it last year and Dingle are in the final this year. What's unfair with that?

In last years final there was two players from Rathmore playing with East Kerry so not exactly the "pick" as you say."
Clearly if a strong County like Kerry with many clubs has only 8 senior clubs then their intermediate champions have an advantage going forward, if they fail to make that advantage pay that's their problem but does not mean they don't have an advantage to start with.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 652 - 08/12/2023 13:36:32    2516012

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Replying To oneoff:  "But like I said Kerry clubs have won less Intermediate All-Irelands since it went to 8 senior clubs. So again Where's the advantage you keep talking about?

Senior clubs have their own championship though. Strand Road won Munster by winning it last year and Dingle are in the final this year. What's unfair with that?

In last years final there was two players from Rathmore playing with East Kerry so not exactly the "pick" as you say."
They had the pick of Rathmore. They obviously picked the best. Two top-level county players.
Actually since Kerry went to 8 senior club teams they've won 2 of 5 All-Ireland intermediate titles, 40%. Before that when they had 11 senior clubs they won 5 of 13, which is 38%. So to repeat myself for the umpteenth time, they had an advantage now they have a bigger one. You still seem to fail to grasp that a strong football county playing their 9th team versus another playing their 17th is an advantage. I can't do much more for you there.
Everyone knows the senior county championship means a lot more than the club championship. Dingle have been waiting over 70 years for a county championship.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1992 - 08/12/2023 18:39:02    2516049

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "They had the pick of Rathmore. They obviously picked the best. Two top-level county players.
Actually since Kerry went to 8 senior club teams they've won 2 of 5 All-Ireland intermediate titles, 40%. Before that when they had 11 senior clubs they won 5 of 13, which is 38%. So to repeat myself for the umpteenth time, they had an advantage now they have a bigger one. You still seem to fail to grasp that a strong football county playing their 9th team versus another playing their 17th is an advantage. I can't do much more for you there.
Everyone knows the senior county championship means a lot more than the club championship. Dingle have been waiting over 70 years for a county championship."
Yes Wanpint I agree with you.Because Croke park only allow 16 teams play in the county championship Kerry reduced the senior teams to 8 so we can have 8 divisional teams.Of course that gives Kerry intermediate teams a huge advantage over most counties.Also that advantage is with our junior teams too.The Kerry county board are looking to change thinga up and hooefully it will increase to 12:senior teams.I would like to see a qualifying competition between the divisonal teams with 4 coming through to the county championship to join 12 senior teams.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3613 - 08/12/2023 20:23:40    2516067

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "They had the pick of Rathmore. They obviously picked the best. Two top-level county players.
Actually since Kerry went to 8 senior club teams they've won 2 of 5 All-Ireland intermediate titles, 40%. Before that when they had 11 senior clubs they won 5 of 13, which is 38%. So to repeat myself for the umpteenth time, they had an advantage now they have a bigger one. You still seem to fail to grasp that a strong football county playing their 9th team versus another playing their 17th is an advantage. I can't do much more for you there.
Everyone knows the senior county championship means a lot more than the club championship. Dingle have been waiting over 70 years for a county championship."
A Kerry club won't win it this year so sort of makes your percentage a bit meaningless.

Miltown lost in Munster this year where was their advantage? Or Na Gaeil, Kenmare etc By your logic they should have been walking to the title.

Also why is someone from Galway so worried about clubs from Kerry?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 08/12/2023 21:38:32    2516070

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Clearly if a strong County like Kerry with many clubs has only 8 senior clubs then their intermediate champions have an advantage going forward, if they fail to make that advantage pay that's their problem but does not mean they don't have an advantage to start with."
We can borrow one of the Dubs favourite lines it was the GAA who made Kerry, and everyone else, change their championship so Kerry are just doing as their told.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 08/12/2023 21:40:52    2516072

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes Wanpint I agree with you.Because Croke park only allow 16 teams play in the county championship Kerry reduced the senior teams to 8 so we can have 8 divisional teams.Of course that gives Kerry intermediate teams a huge advantage over most counties.Also that advantage is with our junior teams too.The Kerry county board are looking to change thinga up and hooefully it will increase to 12:senior teams.I would like to see a qualifying competition between the divisonal teams with 4 coming through to the county championship to join 12 senior teams."
Agree Mick. I think that would be a better structure. It should also help to shake up some of the divisional teams who are putting little effort in.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1992 - 09/12/2023 09:40:21    2516085

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Replying To oneoff:  "A Kerry club won't win it this year so sort of makes your percentage a bit meaningless.

Miltown lost in Munster this year where was their advantage? Or Na Gaeil, Kenmare etc By your logic they should have been walking to the title.

Also why is someone from Galway so worried about clubs from Kerry?"
By the stats they had an advantage. 40% doesn't equal 100%. Your grasp of numbers is shockingly bad. Kerry have won far more All-Ireland intermediate titles than any other county. It doesn't mean they're guaranteed to win it, but they generally have a better chance as they're sending a higher ranked club. That's as simple as I can spell it out for you.
When you resort to why are you commenting anyway as you're from county x, you're scraping the barrel. I have a keen interest in Kerry club football for family reasons. I also follow Mayo and Dublin club football for the same reasons. Is that allowed?

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1992 - 09/12/2023 09:51:14    2516087

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