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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Wexford have 12 teams and are the least successful county in senior club football - so a very high probability that their representative goes out in the first round and the whole thing doesn't effect them. (if any county should adopt the Kerry club football it should be Wexford - buts thats another discussion)
Lets say that there representatives win a provincial match.
There current 2 groups of 6 becomes 5.
Instead of the top 4 in each group of 6, it becomes the top 3 in 5 goes to the quarter finals
The defending champs and intermediate champs then enter at qfinals.
This one is very simple in reality.
Last year Glynn Barntown lost 3 of 5 matches and still made the qfinals - making them try a bit harder during the round robin (they then beat Shelmaliers who topped the other group) wont do any harm.
As I said earlier, park the local club begrudgery and realise that each county should give their own winners the best chance to go on the represent the rest of the clubs and win the provincial/all ireland club.
Taking the Wexford example, Castletown played 8 matches between 20th July and 27th October (8 matches in 14 weeks) and then got beat out the gate a month later by St Lomans Mullingar. So its more likely that their intermediate champions would get a bye." Castletown also played 11 or so hurling games in that period, they only lost the Leinster Junior Hurling Final by a point to Freshford from Kilkenny on December 8th.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16479 - 01/07/2025 19:13:50
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Why not?
That would only apply to All ireland finalists - they would enter earlier if eliminated from interprovincial club earlier.
Considering Wexfords dismal performance in the Leinster Club championship (only Kilkenny are worse at senior level), such a format wont effect ye lads." Shelmaliers reached the Leinster Senior Football SF in 2021. Fethard lost the Leinster Intermediate football championship final last year. They won it in 2022. Kilanerin won it in 2017. Adamstown got to the Junior Football final in 2022, Cushinstown won the Leinster Junior Football Championship in 2019. Several Wexford clubs have been playing Football until the end or near the end of the Football Provincial Championships in recent years.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16479 - 01/07/2025 19:45:08
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This has turned into a Wexford thread.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2505 - 02/07/2025 11:42:41
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Split season suits intercounty players especially those who are offered huge money to spend the summer in America once their county is knocked out.
The club season is no shorter and the only improvement I've seen is fixtures are now set in stone from the beginning of the year so club players can plan their year/holidays etc around championship and big games.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11679 - 02/07/2025 12:11:09
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Replying To yew_tree: "Split season suits intercounty players especially those who are offered huge money to spend the summer in America once their county is knocked out.
The club season is no shorter and the only improvement I've seen is fixtures are now set in stone from the beginning of the year so club players can plan their year/holidays etc around championship and big games." That is a major improvement on the nonsense that went before!
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2505 - 02/07/2025 13:07:26
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Wexford have 12 teams and are the least successful county in senior club football - so a very high probability that their representative goes out in the first round and the whole thing doesn't effect them. (if any county should adopt the Kerry club football it should be Wexford - buts thats another discussion)
Lets say that there representatives win a provincial match.
There current 2 groups of 6 becomes 5.
Instead of the top 4 in each group of 6, it becomes the top 3 in 5 goes to the quarter finals
The defending champs and intermediate champs then enter at qfinals.
This one is very simple in reality.
Last year Glynn Barntown lost 3 of 5 matches and still made the qfinals - making them try a bit harder during the round robin (they then beat Shelmaliers who topped the other group) wont do any harm.
As I said earlier, park the local club begrudgery and realise that each county should give their own winners the best chance to go on the represent the rest of the clubs and win the provincial/all ireland club.
Taking the Wexford example, Castletown played 8 matches between 20th July and 27th October (8 matches in 14 weeks) and then got beat out the gate a month later by St Lomans Mullingar. So its more likely that their intermediate champions would get a bye." Do you actually believe it makes sense for an Intermediate champion to got a bye to the following season's Senior Quarterfinal.
Would they actually even want that. First game, straight into a quarterfinal.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4599 - 02/07/2025 16:35:03
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "That is a major improvement on the nonsense that went before!" Do you not think it's a bit **** how little county players are available for their club.
I'm not going to defend the old system but I find it hard to believe there isn't better than what's in place now.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4599 - 02/07/2025 17:15:34
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Replying To Whammo86: "Do you actually believe it makes sense for an Intermediate champion to got a bye to the following season's Senior Quarterfinal.
Would they actually even want that. First game, straight into a quarterfinal." I dont believe the current system, where a counties successful champion team has to play for almost 2 years straight if the win a provincial title or all ireland club title.
If you look at the teams which reached the All Ireland club finals this year, most of the intercounty players who played in those matches have not had good seasons or have been injured a lot. Those that played little or no county last summer have been ok for injuries
Errigal Ciaran
Cormac Quinn (sat out most of 2024), Peter Harte (bench option), Darragh Canavan (leg injury and concussion), Ben McDonnell (not on tyrone panel in 2024), Ruairí Canavan (concussion and not playing well)
Cuala:
Peadar Ó Cofaigh Byrne (played very little for Dublin in 2024), Con O'Callaghan (injured half the season)
The likes of Shane Walsh hasnt been properly fit since he moved to Kilmacud and had to play 2 full years in row. While Paul Mannion and Rory O Carrol have limited their time with Dublin in the 3 years they were winning leinster clubs.
Derry have gone backwards since their Glen players did 2 all irelands in a row - with Derry not winning a match in normal time for 2 years.
We can pretend that the system isn't broke and watch some of the best players suffer when their club goes well or we can fix the system. If that means the odd team gets a leg up in their own club championship - what about it.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1488 - 02/07/2025 18:31:48
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Replying To Viking66: "Shelmaliers reached the Leinster Senior Football SF in 2021. Fethard lost the Leinster Intermediate football championship final last year. They won it in 2022. Kilanerin won it in 2017. Adamstown got to the Junior Football final in 2022, Cushinstown won the Leinster Junior Football Championship in 2019. Several Wexford clubs have been playing Football until the end or near the end of the Football Provincial Championships in recent years." Cushinstown reached the all Ireland final in 2020 losing to na ngael with Jack Barry and o Conner in midfield two handy players
Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 370 - 02/07/2025 18:44:48
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "I dont believe the current system, where a counties successful champion team has to play for almost 2 years straight if the win a provincial title or all ireland club title.
If you look at the teams which reached the All Ireland club finals this year, most of the intercounty players who played in those matches have not had good seasons or have been injured a lot. Those that played little or no county last summer have been ok for injuries
Errigal Ciaran
Cormac Quinn (sat out most of 2024), Peter Harte (bench option), Darragh Canavan (leg injury and concussion), Ben McDonnell (not on tyrone panel in 2024), Ruairí Canavan (concussion and not playing well)
Cuala:
Peadar Ó Cofaigh Byrne (played very little for Dublin in 2024), Con O'Callaghan (injured half the season)
The likes of Shane Walsh hasnt been properly fit since he moved to Kilmacud and had to play 2 full years in row. While Paul Mannion and Rory O Carrol have limited their time with Dublin in the 3 years they were winning leinster clubs.
Derry have gone backwards since their Glen players did 2 all irelands in a row - with Derry not winning a match in normal time for 2 years.
We can pretend that the system isn't broke and watch some of the best players suffer when their club goes well or we can fix the system. If that means the odd team gets a leg up in their own club championship - what about it." I think it'd be better to play the Club championships along with the National League in that 10 week January to March window.
The league should be decoupled from the championship to facilitate it and give players from strong clubs a rest.
I think if you did that you'd probably be able to have a better overall season and maybe be able to run the inter-county championship a little longer.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4599 - 03/07/2025 09:30:55
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think it'd be better to play the Club championships along with the National League in that 10 week January to March window.
The league should be decoupled from the championship to facilitate it and give players from strong clubs a rest.
I think if you did that you'd probably be able to have a better overall season and maybe be able to run the inter-county championship a little longer." I come to a very similar conclusion. The length of time it takes to run the all Ireland club championships and try and finish in a calendar year ultimately puts the whole season under time constraints.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 481 - 03/07/2025 10:59:13
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think it'd be better to play the Club championships along with the National League in that 10 week January to March window.
The league should be decoupled from the championship to facilitate it and give players from strong clubs a rest.
I think if you did that you'd probably be able to have a better overall season and maybe be able to run the inter-county championship a little longer." By "Club Championships" do you mean the Provincial and All Ireland ones?
When do you propose playing the normal "within the Counties" Club Championships?
I know it's only a small number of Clubs but these March semi finalists and finalists would have no close season.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2505 - 03/07/2025 11:04:18
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "By "Club Championships" do you mean the Provincial and All Ireland ones?
When do you propose playing the normal "within the Counties" Club Championships?
I know it's only a small number of Clubs but these March semi finalists and finalists would have no close season." Sorry Provincial and All Ireland club. I'd think December and January should roughly be the close season.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4599 - 03/07/2025 11:14:06
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Replying To Whammo86: "Sorry Provincial and All Ireland club. I'd think December and January should roughly be the close season." But teams having to complete the AI Club competitions in February/March would be training throughout that close season.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2505 - 03/07/2025 12:18:32
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "But teams having to complete the AI Club competitions in February/March would be training throughout that close season." Why would they. Take a break, start again afterwards.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4599 - 03/07/2025 15:44:26
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Replying To Whammo86: "Why would they. Take a break, start again afterwards." Ah stop.
You know that wouldn't happen.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2505 - 03/07/2025 15:55:28
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Ah stop.
You know that wouldn't happen." I don't know about that. Maybe not for a whole 2 or 3 months but they'd definitely take a breather. Some county championships would be over in October, very easy to stop for a bit, maybe have people keep up their general fitness a bit and then attack the club championship just after Christmas.
I don't really think the status quo is great, unless you are dominant in your own county you start the season aiming to win that championship. Not having the time to enjoy that success isn't great.
We'd a case where we won a championship mid week and had to play Ulster on the upcoming weekend.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4599 - 03/07/2025 17:26:54
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Ah stop.
You know that wouldn't happen." I don't understand why it's any different to a county player taking a break after club championship and then returning for training for the National League.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4599 - 03/07/2025 17:37:49
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Everyone likes the split season - there is no going back.
Another alternative is
January pre -season
February, March - provincial & All ireland club championships, Sigerson Cup & Interprovincials/International rules
Prelim provincial round on St Brigit's weekend (Ulster & Leinster)
Provincial Club Finals on St Patricks weekend
All Ireland finals in Mid April.
Intercounty National Leagues
Start in March - 8 groups or 4 (like Covid league)
League semi finals, relegation play offs and finals in April.
Provincial Championships (May to mid june)
Knock out All Ireland series ( mid June to end August)
County Club Championships
Weaker football counties - Mid August to end November (14 weekends)
Strong football counties - September to end November (12 weekends)
Dual Counties - September to end November (12 weekends)
16 team championships - 4 groups of 4 - 6 rounds of matches
12 team championships - 4 groups of 3 - 5 rounds of matches (will be the death of Wexfords over elaborate championship)
I still think playing the interprovincial & All Ireland club championships at the same time as the county club championships is the best option.
looking at the above - curtailing the intercounty national league is the best method of gaining weekends in the season overall
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1488 - 03/07/2025 19:33:38
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Replying To yew_tree: "Split season suits intercounty players especially those who are offered huge money to spend the summer in America once their county is knocked out.
The club season is no shorter and the only improvement I've seen is fixtures are now set in stone from the beginning of the year so club players can plan their year/holidays etc around championship and big games." It does suit them and indeed suits HQ to have big money making concerts in Croke Park. The majority of county finals across the county are still played in October and provincial finals in all types of weather in November,December as was the case before any "split season" was brought in.
Drax_the_destroyer (UK) - Posts: 519 - 03/07/2025 19:42:37
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