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Replying To Lockjaw:  "A really poor final which reminded me a lot of 1990.
Argentina were involved then as well. They had one world class player, but decided that their best chance of success against a superior opponent (West Germany) would be to needle, kick and ****house their way to penalties.

Spain might not be everyone's cup of tea with the way that they dominate possession and squeeze the life out of the opposition. But they were the only team trying to play football last night, and deserved their win. I read somewhere that they only conceded 10 shots on target across their entire World Cup, resulting in only one goal conceded. That is extraordinary.

Oryazabal has done a decent job up front for them. But if they were to unearth another Butragueno/Raul/Torres/Villa calibre striker, they'd be close to unstoppable."
I thought Spain were pretty darn good all through. To go through an entire World Cup without anyone laying a glove on you speaks for itself. Schooled France at the semi, and Euro '24 champs to boot. Laughable that some 'experts' are bored enough to be criticising them.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4876 - 20/07/2026 14:22:23    2686372

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I had a good friend from Gortin and one of the sure ways to turn him into a raving loon was to say anything at all good about Derry."
Yes the Sperrin mountains were a great natural dividing line. Brian Dooher used to play like a man possessed when he played Derry.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 490 - 20/07/2026 15:14:32    2686383

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Replying To Commodore:  "Hardly surprising, as Fine Gael is the modern day remnant of the 1922 pro-Treaty voting TDs that legitimized partition and in more modern times have been the party of choice for block voting of ROI based people of unionist background.

I can't see any self-respecting Nationalist/Republican wanting to remain part of an archaic monarchist Union, which has been directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths of over 2 million Irish people and the departure of millions of other Irish people from these shores, not to mention the oppression of native people who remained.

No tax percentage or amount of money would change my mind on Irish Unity, its time to end this stain on Irish History for good and open a new chapter in Irish history."
Well said it is a terrible historical wrong and injustice. It should be the number one priority for all Irish people and any Irish government. It needs to be made much more of a priority so the momentum for a border poll increases. If Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael remain in Government and refuse to plan for unity, it will stall for generations.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1768 - 20/07/2026 16:02:07    2686390

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "I thought Spain were pretty darn good all through. To go through an entire World Cup without anyone laying a glove on you speaks for itself. Schooled France at the semi, and Euro '24 champs to boot. Laughable that some 'experts' are bored enough to be criticising them."
Yes the Spanish are a model to follow in terms of coaching and player development.
They really have their ducks in a row.
Then look at the club scene -
Champions League winning manager - Spanish
Europa League winning manager - Spanish
Most of the top jobs in the Premier League - Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea - Spanish and Pep Guardiola could probably walk into any job he wants, now that he's finished up at City.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 10428 - 20/07/2026 16:38:19    2686393

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Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "Well said it is a terrible historical wrong and injustice. It should be the number one priority for all Irish people and any Irish government. It needs to be made much more of a priority so the momentum for a border poll increases. If Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael remain in Government and refuse to plan for unity, it will stall for generations."
It certainly isn't "number one priority for all Irish people".

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 771 - 20/07/2026 16:39:37    2686394

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Replying To Seanfan:  "It certainly isn't "number one priority for all Irish people"."
That's completely true. In a Sunday Independent/Ireland Thinks opinion poll showed it wasn't a priority for the Irish electorate at all. This tracker asked 1,286 participants in the Republic of Ireland to select their top two political priorities. In this specific survey, a united Ireland completely failed to register among the top 18 priorities selected by the electorate, effectively receiving a 0% priority score. Because the lowest-ranking issue on the recorded list received 1% of the vote, commentators noted that Irish unity captured less than 1%.

A border poll would pass comfortably in the Republic on the figures but it's not an issue the electorate seem to care about. A lot of Nationalists care about unity in the North but there is a significant cohort who would likely vote against unity also. This will make it very difficult for a border poll to pass because very few Unionists will vote for a United Ireland.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1768 - 20/07/2026 18:03:05    2686412

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yes the Spanish are a model to follow in terms of coaching and player development.
They really have their ducks in a row.
Then look at the club scene -
Champions League winning manager - Spanish
Europa League winning manager - Spanish
Most of the top jobs in the Premier League - Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea - Spanish and Pep Guardiola could probably walk into any job he wants, now that he's finished up at City."
2 world cups and 3 euros in the last 18 years,serious going.

Seniorleague (Galway) - Posts: 188 - 20/07/2026 19:09:28    2686417

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Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "That's completely true. In a Sunday Independent/Ireland Thinks opinion poll showed it wasn't a priority for the Irish electorate at all. This tracker asked 1,286 participants in the Republic of Ireland to select their top two political priorities. In this specific survey, a united Ireland completely failed to register among the top 18 priorities selected by the electorate, effectively receiving a 0% priority score. Because the lowest-ranking issue on the recorded list received 1% of the vote, commentators noted that Irish unity captured less than 1%.

A border poll would pass comfortably in the Republic on the figures but it's not an issue the electorate seem to care about. A lot of Nationalists care about unity in the North but there is a significant cohort who would likely vote against unity also. This will make it very difficult for a border poll to pass because very few Unionists will vote for a United Ireland."
Which is why border poll is not legitimate. It is another means to maintain Partition and British rule in Ireland.

SF are being utterly cyncical about it. Harping on about it while acting as day to day managers along with DUP.

They know one is unlikely to be held and if it is it will lose. Another can't be held for 7 years. So they continue harping on about it and wet their beaks.

Shame so many lives ruined for this pathetic ending.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4494 - 20/07/2026 20:13:26    2686420

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yes the Spanish are a model to follow in terms of coaching and player development.
They really have their ducks in a row.
Then look at the club scene -
Champions League winning manager - Spanish
Europa League winning manager - Spanish
Most of the top jobs in the Premier League - Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea - Spanish and Pep Guardiola could probably walk into any job he wants, now that he's finished up at City."
They recently won the UEFA U19 championships without conceding a single goal in qualifying or the championships themselves.
They've won that title 10 times since the turn of the century, far more than any other country.
Spain are continuing to produce quality players, who are technically excellent and their current senior team is quite young.
Aside from their quality, something which isn't mentioned often enough is there excellent record in finals. Between club and country, they tend to get job done whenever they reach the showpiece match.
Their record in European club finals is remarkable over the past 25 years or so. I think it's close to 30 won and only a handful of losses, most of which were to other Spanish clubs.
At international level it's 6 titles from 7 finals between World Cup and Euros.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2955 - 20/07/2026 21:13:08    2686428

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Replying To Commodore:  "Hardly surprising, as Fine Gael is the modern day remnant of the 1922 pro-Treaty voting TDs that legitimized partition and in more modern times have been the party of choice for block voting of ROI based people of unionist background.

I can't see any self-respecting Nationalist/Republican wanting to remain part of an archaic monarchist Union, which has been directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths of over 2 million Irish people and the departure of millions of other Irish people from these shores, not to mention the oppression of native people who remained.

No tax percentage or amount of money would change my mind on Irish Unity, its time to end this stain on Irish History for good and open a new chapter in Irish history."
Donegal was one of those pro-Treaty voting counties though..
Majority of TD's in Donegal sided with the Treaty.
The IRA in the county at the time of the Truce/Civil War went overwhelmingly majority pro-Treaty.
Even the Sinn Fein in Donegal was pro-Treaty.

Goreylad1985 (Wexford) - Posts: 61 - 20/07/2026 21:14:09    2686429

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Which is why border poll is not legitimate. It is another means to maintain Partition and British rule in Ireland.

SF are being utterly cyncical about it. Harping on about it while acting as day to day managers along with DUP.

They know one is unlikely to be held and if it is it will lose. Another can't be held for 7 years. So they continue harping on about it and wet their beaks.

Shame so many lives ruined for this pathetic ending."
Yeah in terms of a border poll the British Secretary of State is not obliged to state what metrics would be used to call a border poll (election results, polls, census data).As such they can not apply sufficient pressure on the British to call one. That was a real failure of SDLP and Sinn Fein in negotiating the Good Friday Agreement terms.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1768 - 20/07/2026 22:44:03    2686436

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "They recently won the UEFA U19 championships without conceding a single goal in qualifying or the championships themselves.
They've won that title 10 times since the turn of the century, far more than any other country.
Spain are continuing to produce quality players, who are technically excellent and their current senior team is quite young.
Aside from their quality, something which isn't mentioned often enough is there excellent record in finals. Between club and country, they tend to get job done whenever they reach the showpiece match.
Their record in European club finals is remarkable over the past 25 years or so. I think it's close to 30 won and only a handful of losses, most of which were to other Spanish clubs.
At international level it's 6 titles from 7 finals between World Cup and Euros."
It's still painfully dull to watch in my opinion. I have a season ticket for a league 1 team and seeing the obsession with passing sideways and backwards slowly drip down to that level is painful. It sucks the life out of the crowd, there's less back and forth between teams fighting for possession, less 50/50 challenges, no throwing it in the mixer and taking a gamble.
It's the dutch dream of the 70's distilled to it's purest form, it's not the game I fell in love with and reminds me of those terrible hockey games that come on tv every 4 years when the olympics are on, lots of passing but no action.
I'm not an "expert", I don't have a UEFA C license and I don't really care about xG, inverted fullbacks or half-spaces but when I see Rodri collecting a Ballon D'Or and player of the World Cup then the game is clearly only for the hipsters.

dolfos (Longford) - Posts: 155 - 21/07/2026 09:41:54    2686450

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Replying To dolfos:  "It's still painfully dull to watch in my opinion. I have a season ticket for a league 1 team and seeing the obsession with passing sideways and backwards slowly drip down to that level is painful. It sucks the life out of the crowd, there's less back and forth between teams fighting for possession, less 50/50 challenges, no throwing it in the mixer and taking a gamble.
It's the dutch dream of the 70's distilled to it's purest form, it's not the game I fell in love with and reminds me of those terrible hockey games that come on tv every 4 years when the olympics are on, lots of passing but no action.
I'm not an "expert", I don't have a UEFA C license and I don't really care about xG, inverted fullbacks or half-spaces but when I see Rodri collecting a Ballon D'Or and player of the World Cup then the game is clearly only for the hipsters."
Spain had 20 shots and 12 on target on Sunday. They created loads of chances. I couldn't care less about any of that other stuff you're talking about either, but I know a bloody good footballing team when I see one.
You mentioned earlier that they pass for the sake of it. They do anything but. They're always looking to play on the front foot. Pass the ball forward whenever there's a chance and have some really creative and skillful players. They pressure teams high up the pitch to win the ball back.
You're saying if the best player is a central midfielder, a defender or a goalkeeper, the team must be boring? It's not a celebrity contest. Germany in 2014 were a very good watch and their keeper was their best player. Great players are in all positions. Spain have plenty of quality all over the pitch.
There are plenty examples of boring teams who take possession football to the extreme and play a toothle brand of football. Spain definitely aren't one of them.
They put 5 past France in the nations league semi-final last year.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2955 - 21/07/2026 10:45:24    2686458

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Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "Yeah in terms of a border poll the British Secretary of State is not obliged to state what metrics would be used to call a border poll (election results, polls, census data).As such they can not apply sufficient pressure on the British to call one. That was a real failure of SDLP and Sinn Fein in negotiating the Good Friday Agreement terms."
Presumably thought better to leave it vague at the time.

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 771 - 21/07/2026 11:01:33    2686461

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Replying To Seanfan:  "Presumably thought better to leave it vague at the time."
Yes they likely thought a border poll was a long way off in 1998 but the British Government has never been an honest broker on Irish matters and it is now a major oversight especially as neither Labour or Conservatives will specify the conditions.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1768 - 21/07/2026 11:22:20    2686465

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Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "Yeah in terms of a border poll the British Secretary of State is not obliged to state what metrics would be used to call a border poll (election results, polls, census data).As such they can not apply sufficient pressure on the British to call one. That was a real failure of SDLP and Sinn Fein in negotiating the Good Friday Agreement terms."
But doesnt that suit SF (at the present time anyway)? They talk the talk , publicly seen to push for it while secretly not wanting it because they know it would fail in the 6 counties. As far as I can see, the side that would be delighted if a border poll took place now are the Unionists. Almost certainly they'd win it and close discussion on the topic for at least a decade. From a nationalist perspective I would think the best thing to do would be to wait until the Scots have another go at it in 10 or 15 years time , cos if the Scots broke away or even had a stronger pro-independence vote but still fell short, it wiould be a game changer.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2150 - 21/07/2026 11:47:44    2686468

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "But doesnt that suit SF (at the present time anyway)? They talk the talk , publicly seen to push for it while secretly not wanting it because they know it would fail in the 6 counties. As far as I can see, the side that would be delighted if a border poll took place now are the Unionists. Almost certainly they'd win it and close discussion on the topic for at least a decade. From a nationalist perspective I would think the best thing to do would be to wait until the Scots have another go at it in 10 or 15 years time , cos if the Scots broke away or even had a stronger pro-independence vote but still fell short, it wiould be a game changer."
Yes politically a vote in the mid 2030s has much more chance of passing because Irish unity has a clear lead among young voters and demographics is a ticking time bomb for Unionism. Economically achieving unity as soon as possible is better because the North is falling further and further behind the Republic every year.

The cost of living ( groceries etc) make Northerners think they are better off than the Republic. Yet the reality is very different as even with the cost of living differences factors the disposable income is 12-15% higher in the Republic due to much higher wages. Life expectancy is 2-3 years higher in the Republic than it is in the North. In every economic metric the Republic far ahead of the North but the only advantage the North has is the cost of housing is far cheaper. As far as I can tell East Germany is still far poor than West Germany after reunification? Would this be the same in a United Ireland?

The key issue is even if a vote is a few years even a decade off why can't the planning start now. Why did Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael vote down the Irish Unity bill for a citizens assembly and green paper? The more planning that is done and the earlier is done increases the chances of success in a border poll but the electorate will have longer to assess the terms of the offer.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1768 - 21/07/2026 12:44:41    2686481

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "Spain had 20 shots and 12 on target on Sunday. They created loads of chances. I couldn't care less about any of that other stuff you're talking about either, but I know a bloody good footballing team when I see one.
You mentioned earlier that they pass for the sake of it. They do anything but. They're always looking to play on the front foot. Pass the ball forward whenever there's a chance and have some really creative and skillful players. They pressure teams high up the pitch to win the ball back.
You're saying if the best player is a central midfielder, a defender or a goalkeeper, the team must be boring? It's not a celebrity contest. Germany in 2014 were a very good watch and their keeper was their best player. Great players are in all positions. Spain have plenty of quality all over the pitch.
There are plenty examples of boring teams who take possession football to the extreme and play a toothle brand of football. Spain definitely aren't one of them.
They put 5 past France in the nations league semi-final last year."
"You're saying if the best player is a central midfielder, a defender or a goalkeeper, the team must be boring?"

I'm saying that when a defensive midfielder is consistently rated the best player in the world, it tells me that systems now trump individuals in the game.

dolfos (Longford) - Posts: 155 - 21/07/2026 12:45:38    2686482

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