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Replying To FullOfPorter: "The window for us to play a bit more of an attractive and sophisticated type of game was under Jack and maybe McCarthys first spell when we actually had some top class players on the European and world stage, and some of those in midfield positions. You think of Brady, Whelan, Keane. World class defenders as well in O'Leary and McGrath.... O'Leary was nominated for a Ballon dOr! A significant bunch of the other players would have been considered some of the best in their positions in the English league at times, Irwin, Stapleton, Aldridge. Also despite us recruiting some brilliant players not born in Ireland, most of the top talent were Irish born.
There isn't one player now with a bit of serious class. That can't be helped with the way things have deteriorated with regards to player production. More worringly is the complete lack of leadership and work ethic. Coleman seems to have been the last with those attributes. For our generation that grew up watching the Charlton team and the next good bunch of Duffer, Keane, Given, do we really have to take a good dose of the reality coffee and realise that we are so far off things in terms of player quality? Massive over reaction to young lads that come on the scene like Aaron Connolly, Ferguson and Obafemi like they were going to be the next Duff or Keane and lead us to World Cup and Euros tournaments. Mad pressure on lads who hadn't even been proven at top club level. I think you are right we need to get back to a basic set up, 4 4 2. Be disciplined and hard to beat. It won't be pretty but at elast we might be able to stay in games. If we score even better we might even get in the mix for qualification sometimes. The playing posession front foot football experiment has well and truely failed but at least it might have opened our eyes (and especially pundits and journos) to what level we really are operating at. I hate to say it but maybe we need a good dose of Big Sam!" Connolly and obafemi are odd ones. Very talented lads but didn't have the temperament.
Ferguson could still be great. He's very young still.
I see what you mean though. In the past we had lads at top four clubs or the ones playing at a lower level were the best players at their clubs. That just isn't the case now.
We really do need to start asking ourselves why. I know we have more dominant sports but for a highly developed nation we can surely do better.
Then again France and England had to do an awful lot of colonising to put their squads together....
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3924 - 14/09/2025 10:41:23
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Connolly and obafemi are odd ones. Very talented lads but didn't have the temperament.
Ferguson could still be great. He's very young still.
I see what you mean though. In the past we had lads at top four clubs or the ones playing at a lower level were the best players at their clubs. That just isn't the case now.
We really do need to start asking ourselves why. I know we have more dominant sports but for a highly developed nation we can surely do better.
Then again France and England had to do an awful lot of colonising to put their squads together...." Definitely should be competing better. A lot of the smaller European nations especially in the east, have big numbers playing basketball and ice hockey, yet they still produce better quality players than Ireland. Rugby has stolen a march on soccer. Up until relatively recently there was a few rugby stronghold areas. It was football, hurling or soccer everywhere else. Even in GAA dominant areas, the second sport would always be soccer. You'd think it still has to be the most widely played game in the country but the FAI are a complete shambles.
FullOfPorter (Roscommon) - Posts: 354 - 14/09/2025 12:25:11
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Replying To FullOfPorter: "Definitely should be competing better. A lot of the smaller European nations especially in the east, have big numbers playing basketball and ice hockey, yet they still produce better quality players than Ireland. Rugby has stolen a march on soccer. Up until relatively recently there was a few rugby stronghold areas. It was football, hurling or soccer everywhere else. Even in GAA dominant areas, the second sport would always be soccer. You'd think it still has to be the most widely played game in the country but the FAI are a complete shambles." Some of those European, South American and African countries are not as prosperous as Ireland is now. Compared to us qualifying for the Euros in 1988 when emigration was quite high.I think a lot of parents worked very hard since then and maybe spoiled their children? Not all, whose children still have a great work ethic. But if you're a young footballer from a poor country you're more motivated by succeeding in football than someone from Ireland who has more education and work opportunities to fall back on if football doesn't work out for them.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8244 - 14/09/2025 13:17:27
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Some of those European, South American and African countries are not as prosperous as Ireland is now. Compared to us qualifying for the Euros in 1988 when emigration was quite high.I think a lot of parents worked very hard since then and maybe spoiled their children? Not all, whose children still have a great work ethic. But if you're a young footballer from a poor country you're more motivated by succeeding in football than someone from Ireland who has more education and work opportunities to fall back on if football doesn't work out for them." Agreed. I think it's no coincidence that a lot of Irelands better performing "granny rule" players were the sons of emigrants from the 50s/60s (Sheedy,Kilbane, Sheridan, McLaughlin RIP etc) who had that work ethic instilled in them. To put it bluntly, Irish soccer in the 1980s/90s benefited from our economic woes of decades previous. Irish people now tend to emigrate further afield, and not for employment reasons. Plus, they're now more likely to immerse themselves in the culture of their adopted homes, so we're probably more likely to see second generation Irish kids excel at Aussie rules or ice hockey than soccer, sadly.
I think that right now, all we can hope for is a golden generation springing up. Could happen, but we'd need our governing body to step up and put procedures in place starting at underage level. The onus is on the FAI, so I for one highly doubt it....
streaker (Galway) - Posts: 560 - 15/09/2025 13:07:58
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There is an underlying problem that is often ignored or not understood.
In the 70's/ 80's - Ireland and England had the same age grade cut off dates.
Ireland changed theirs to match the EU countries but the English premier league clubs didn't.
Ireland used to be 1st of August (up to 2010) and English clubs were 1st September - this near alignment worked well as all English football academies suffer from Relative Age Selection bias (55% of Kids born in September/October/November).
Irish soccer clubs chop and change players like there is no tomorrow - cutting late developers like it is going out of fashion.
If your playing underage soccer in Ireland and born in September/October/November/December - you have a 10% change of making an Irish soccer team (due to the same Relative Age Selection bias).
So essentially, the Irish system is designed to discard Q4 born kids, where the English system gives them an advantage.
This wasn't accounted for in the enforce age cut off change, so when it happened, Ireland didn't (and still doesn't) have a proper academy system to take over from the English one we effectively butchered for ourselves.
The FAI are only now trying to implement an academy system (26 no similar to the GAA), 20 years after it should have. It should have been in place 5 years before we changed the cut off dates.
Over the past 15 years, the number of Irish kids at Premier League academies had fallen off a cliff, not because of brexit but because the FAI shot Irish soccer in the foot.
There is only one country in the world who has an equal portion of Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4 kids (25%) in their underage academies - they have a population of 11 million and went down the age grade bio banding route 15 years ago.
All their best players are home grown and they have been consistently a top 10 country for 15 years. Belgium.
What Belgium player was given permission to play "overage" in their bio banded leagues because of his physical late development? Then discarded by Chelsea at 19? - went on to be the best Midfield player in the premier league - Kevin De Bryune. If he was growing up in Ireland, he would have been cut from every team going.
The FAI are a million miles from this kind of top level sports science and the coaches/clubs in IReland dont even know what bio banding is.
IReland wont see a world cup until they expand it to 128 teams
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1600 - 15/09/2025 13:59:29
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "There is an underlying problem that is often ignored or not understood.
In the 70's/ 80's - Ireland and England had the same age grade cut off dates.
Ireland changed theirs to match the EU countries but the English premier league clubs didn't.
Ireland used to be 1st of August (up to 2010) and English clubs were 1st September - this near alignment worked well as all English football academies suffer from Relative Age Selection bias (55% of Kids born in September/October/November).
Irish soccer clubs chop and change players like there is no tomorrow - cutting late developers like it is going out of fashion.
If your playing underage soccer in Ireland and born in September/October/November/December - you have a 10% change of making an Irish soccer team (due to the same Relative Age Selection bias).
So essentially, the Irish system is designed to discard Q4 born kids, where the English system gives them an advantage.
This wasn't accounted for in the enforce age cut off change, so when it happened, Ireland didn't (and still doesn't) have a proper academy system to take over from the English one we effectively butchered for ourselves.
The FAI are only now trying to implement an academy system (26 no similar to the GAA), 20 years after it should have. It should have been in place 5 years before we changed the cut off dates.
Over the past 15 years, the number of Irish kids at Premier League academies had fallen off a cliff, not because of brexit but because the FAI shot Irish soccer in the foot.
There is only one country in the world who has an equal portion of Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4 kids (25%) in their underage academies - they have a population of 11 million and went down the age grade bio banding route 15 years ago.
All their best players are home grown and they have been consistently a top 10 country for 15 years. Belgium.
What Belgium player was given permission to play "overage" in their bio banded leagues because of his physical late development? Then discarded by Chelsea at 19? - went on to be the best Midfield player in the premier league - Kevin De Bryune. If he was growing up in Ireland, he would have been cut from every team going.
The FAI are a million miles from this kind of top level sports science and the coaches/clubs in IReland dont even know what bio banding is.
IReland wont see a world cup until they expand it to 128 teams" Bio banding is definitely the way forwards at underage in any contact team sport, especially u14-u18. Maybe u12 also. As regards cut off dates RASB is going to apply whatever date the cut off is. Only way around it is increase the number of agegroups, so 12, 12.5, 13, 13.5 etc, but that's not practical for a myriad of other reasons.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17060 - 15/09/2025 14:40:31
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "There is an underlying problem that is often ignored or not understood.
In the 70's/ 80's - Ireland and England had the same age grade cut off dates.
Ireland changed theirs to match the EU countries but the English premier league clubs didn't.
Ireland used to be 1st of August (up to 2010) and English clubs were 1st September - this near alignment worked well as all English football academies suffer from Relative Age Selection bias (55% of Kids born in September/October/November).
Irish soccer clubs chop and change players like there is no tomorrow - cutting late developers like it is going out of fashion.
If your playing underage soccer in Ireland and born in September/October/November/December - you have a 10% change of making an Irish soccer team (due to the same Relative Age Selection bias).
So essentially, the Irish system is designed to discard Q4 born kids, where the English system gives them an advantage.
This wasn't accounted for in the enforce age cut off change, so when it happened, Ireland didn't (and still doesn't) have a proper academy system to take over from the English one we effectively butchered for ourselves.
The FAI are only now trying to implement an academy system (26 no similar to the GAA), 20 years after it should have. It should have been in place 5 years before we changed the cut off dates.
Over the past 15 years, the number of Irish kids at Premier League academies had fallen off a cliff, not because of brexit but because the FAI shot Irish soccer in the foot.
There is only one country in the world who has an equal portion of Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4 kids (25%) in their underage academies - they have a population of 11 million and went down the age grade bio banding route 15 years ago.
All their best players are home grown and they have been consistently a top 10 country for 15 years. Belgium.
What Belgium player was given permission to play "overage" in their bio banded leagues because of his physical late development? Then discarded by Chelsea at 19? - went on to be the best Midfield player in the premier league - Kevin De Bryune. If he was growing up in Ireland, he would have been cut from every team going.
The FAI are a million miles from this kind of top level sports science and the coaches/clubs in IReland dont even know what bio banding is.
IReland wont see a world cup until they expand it to 128 teams" Absolutely fantastic post.
There's a pretty comprehensive study around H2 DOB athletes development outcomes.
I can't remember the exact stats but I'm pretty sure we had no senior internationals at the time who weren't born in H1.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3924 - 15/09/2025 14:52:47
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Anybody else think the media coverage of the boxers at the world championships is pathetic? Why do we seem so uncomfortable with the fact it's our most successful international sport and we'd rather hear about mediocre runners?
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3924 - 15/09/2025 21:22:00
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Anybody else think the media coverage of the boxers at the world championships is pathetic? Why do we seem so uncomfortable with the fact it's our most successful international sport and we'd rather hear about mediocre runners?" It also looks like the girls are leading the line.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1860 - 16/09/2025 08:04:07
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Anybody else think the media coverage of the boxers at the world championships is pathetic? Why do we seem so uncomfortable with the fact it's our most successful international sport and we'd rather hear about mediocre runners?" Agree with you Doyler. For a small country we are constantly overachieving in the ring and it's fantastic. These athletes deserve far more recognition. But hey let's keep pushing the women's rugby narrative
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2508 - 16/09/2025 08:28:10
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Absolutely fantastic post.
There's a pretty comprehensive study around H2 DOB athletes development outcomes.
I can't remember the exact stats but I'm pretty sure we had no senior internationals at the time who weren't born in H1." We all know the advantages of Q1 birth in sports, yet the population is only 25% born in Q1 and 45% of academy players are born in Q1.
That tells you that in the long run, which is how talent pools are built, the over reliance on Q1 kids let you down when they hit adult level and their earlier physical and maturity advantages disappear.
Belgium start this revolution - Germany are following.
Clare have started in GAA and Limerick are following.
Irish soccer is so badly organized, administered and run that they are 20 years from implementing anything as sensible as a system to maximize the full playing pool available. In Irish soccer, if you are a late developer in the DDSL or any big club - you get cut at U9/10 and thats it for you.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1600 - 16/09/2025 09:12:14
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Anybody else think the media coverage of the boxers at the world championships is pathetic? Why do we seem so uncomfortable with the fact it's our most successful international sport and we'd rather hear about mediocre runners?" More and more Sports are becoming middle class only. The likes of Rugby, Yachting and Cricket gets massive coverage now.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2659 - 16/09/2025 15:45:08
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