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Replying To cavanman47:  "My posts aren't really focusing on the rights or wrongs of the attempt by the independents to have speaking time.

The constitution seems to allow for it but I can obviously see the issue.

That's why it was agreed that the next 2 weeks would be used to seek legal clarification on the matter.

The problem I have is that hijacking the Dail order of business yesterday, and the manner in which it was done and pre-orchestrated, was totally wrong."
The behaviour might not have happened at all if the issue had been dealt with sensibly in the 1st place. What made us a laughing stock around the world, or would have if people around the world actually thought we were as important as our political rulers think we are, is that it's obviously nonsense that someone who is voting with the government, and is in fact part of the government insofar as they had input when the programme for government was drawn up, should take up speaking time reserved for the Opposition. The clue is in the name- Opposition means not on the same team.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14317 - 23/01/2025 18:19:30    2587198

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I have no intention of getting into this pro or anti discussion other than to note that to me, that it always seems to be " them versus us". No matter what one side brings up about the other, straight away there is a list of transgressions trotted out to apparently justify whatever. It reminds me of children in the schoolyard. Like I said earlier comedic, if it wasn't so serious. It could almost be said tragic, rather than comedic."
Fair enough. I agree with nearly all you said. My biggest gripe is the MEDIA COVERAGE of any of these things. Overloaded in one direction while scant (if any) in the other direction. That's a huge problem when you have so many that look to them for "news" that doesn't have an agenda attached.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2295 - 23/01/2025 18:33:23    2587204

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I forgot to mention how many jobs can people start on a Wednesday and then get 2 weeks holidays,after being off for more than 2 months..even trump started work straight away when he was sworn in,no matter what we think of him..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2425 - 23/01/2025 18:41:15    2587205

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I forgot to mention how many jobs can people start on a Wednesday and then get 2 weeks holidays,after being off for more than 2 months..even trump started work straight away when he was sworn in,no matter what we think of him.."
Ministers abd TDs do plenty of work without sitting in the Dáil.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2028 - 23/01/2025 18:55:38    2587207

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "SF and the rest of the opposition were totally correct in what they done yesterday…. The arrogance of FF/FG was laid bare… Fair play to them for putting Harris and Martin firmly in their place… FF/FG have done absolutely nothing with regards to housing or health for the last 5 years yet had the arrogance to want people sitting in opposition to try and take up time on those trying to hold them to account… they are a shameful bunch …!"
It wasnt FF/FG who proposed that those TDs got opposition speaking time. It was the TDs themselves (Lowry, Healy Raes etc).

We still don't know whether that was correct or not - it is being legally analysed currently.

The "totally correct" thing to do was to proceed with yesterdays order of business in nominating the Taoiseach and allowing the agreed process of solving the speaking time issue to run it's course between now and when the Dail next sits.

Shouting down the ceann camhairle without this legal clarification is not democratic.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5229 - 23/01/2025 18:55:49    2587208

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Replying To Viking66:  "The behaviour might not have happened at all if the issue had been dealt with sensibly in the 1st place. What made us a laughing stock around the world, or would have if people around the world actually thought we were as important as our political rulers think we are, is that it's obviously nonsense that someone who is voting with the government, and is in fact part of the government insofar as they had input when the programme for government was drawn up, should take up speaking time reserved for the Opposition. The clue is in the name- Opposition means not on the same team."
I do tend to agree, but. .

1. How is that different to the C&S agreement of 2016-2020? FF agreed on the programme for government then led the opposition while voting/abstaining to keep FG in power.

2. It hasn't yet been clarified if it was incorrect or not (so it doesn't matter if you or I agree or disagree with it) - yesterday's sitting was not the place to challenge it and the manner in which it was challenged should never be welcomed in a public house of representatives.

Disrupting the order of business by shouting down people until you get your way, without having the legal clarification that what you're arguing for is fair, is simply not democratic. Get that clarification, then by all means throw your toys out of the pram if you see those clarified rules being broken. Until then, behave like a mature adult and stop wasting tax payers money.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5229 - 23/01/2025 20:43:23    2587221

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Fair enough. I agree with nearly all you said. My biggest gripe is the MEDIA COVERAGE of any of these things. Overloaded in one direction while scant (if any) in the other direction. That's a huge problem when you have so many that look to them for "news" that doesn't have an agenda attached."
Aah, I see, you are more in favour of reading articles or news items that concur with your views, and everything that doesn't is "fake news" or as a political advisor in the States once so eloquently put it - we have our alternative facts. But then, maybe you are right, either way, as long as the world which we all share becomes a better place, what more can we ask for ?

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1344 - 23/01/2025 22:01:46    2587238

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Replying To cavanman47:  "I do tend to agree, but. .

1. How is that different to the C&S agreement of 2016-2020? FF agreed on the programme for government then led the opposition while voting/abstaining to keep FG in power.

2. It hasn't yet been clarified if it was incorrect or not (so it doesn't matter if you or I agree or disagree with it) - yesterday's sitting was not the place to challenge it and the manner in which it was challenged should never be welcomed in a public house of representatives.

Disrupting the order of business by shouting down people until you get your way, without having the legal clarification that what you're arguing for is fair, is simply not democratic. Get that clarification, then by all means throw your toys out of the pram if you see those clarified rules being broken. Until then, behave like a mature adult and stop wasting tax payers money."
It really hasn't sunk in with you yet has it?

One poster tried to spell it out as simply as possible for you earlier:

Opposition = not the same team.

If you can get your head around that on your own maybe try and get someone to explain it to you.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1083 - 23/01/2025 22:05:06    2587239

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "It really hasn't sunk in with you yet has it?

One poster tried to spell it out as simply as possible for you earlier:

Opposition = not the same team.

If you can get your head around that on your own maybe try and get someone to explain it to you."
Why don't you explain it then?

Tell us all why Fianna Fail were in opposition from 2016 to 2020 yet they negotiated the programme for government with Fine Gael for that term.

I'm looking forward to this. You've made a complete fool of yourself once today so another time won't hurt.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5229 - 23/01/2025 23:14:52    2587250

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Aah, I see, you are more in favour of reading articles or news items that concur with your views, and everything that doesn't is "fake news" or as a political advisor in the States once so eloquently put it - we have our alternative facts. But then, maybe you are right, either way, as long as the world which we all share becomes a better place, what more can we ask for ?"
Hey friend that's exactly what I did NOT say. I do NOT want a right wing media no more than a left wing media as both are equally USELESS. Just report the NEWS without an attached agenda please.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2295 - 23/01/2025 23:21:02    2587252

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