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Unlucky I guess, penalties are a complete lottery, both the minors and u20s were good solid teams but lacked marquee forwards. You can be the best coach in the world but you still need talented forwards, both teams were a little too defence minded and lacked balance imo
totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 920 - 22/05/2022 20:30:37 2419519 Link 0 |
It seems so. And it seems that the culture within the different management teams seems to be all quite negative. They probably have a buzz word for it, control, or something like that. When the minors went 0-08 to 0-05 up yesterday evening, and playing with a good breeze, instead of trying to helm Tyrone in, we played laterally in our own half, inviting on pressure that we didn't need. It's all very well when it works, sucking a team out, but aligned with that, you have to recognise where the space is, and to attack it. But again last night, we invited them on, but didn't manipulate them to our advantage. In those situations, you have to have good decision makers, but it appears that the intelligence is coached out of them, the player who can spot a gap, and how to take advantage of it. I've said here before about death by coaching, like American football players who have decisions made for them. And then last night, the same as the 20's, when they abandoned the game management and went for broke, Bingo Ted, it worked. SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 585 - 22/05/2022 20:54:09 2419534 Link 0 |
Excellent post. I also agreed with the point someone made about having marquee forwards which was certainly true with the under twenties but I do think last nights minors had a decent forward line. The problem was with the way we played it was impossible to flourish as no real decent ball came in of note with both sides reciprocating the other in terms of the defensive set ups. Sure there was multiple hand passes just to make 5 yards with virtually little quick ball in.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 22/05/2022 21:02:56 2419539 Link 0 |
I think this is far too simplistic and to be honest I think a lot of the posters in here are all to quote you "quite negative". You can't ignore the opposition. Tyrone won their minor league group matches by roughly 20 points a match. Admittedly it looks like some of the teams in their group were poor and they just got over a derry team in the league final. But they then beat cavan by 8 points in the championship and then antrim (a team that beat monaghan) by 22 points. Cavan did beat us in the ulster league. Based on them results was there a point going out to play tyrone in a shootout. Maybe if they had met them in the league or played them under 16 they would have a better sense but on all evidence the approach was right. The tactics worked really well and they really rattled tyrone and could have pushed on but don't ignore the fatigue element. The under 20s to me is one that got away. Tyrone had themselves fully dialed in for that game and donegal were not quite at in initially. Donegal also hadn't one test that year and ultimately finished with a better balanced team at the end than they had at the start with more free scoring forwards on the pitch. Mcglennan was also exceptional for them and we conceded two goals directly from their kickouts which you really can't do. Tyrone did win the all ireland by the way! I've mentioned in an earlier post that I really don't like minors being under 17 because it brings tactics in too soon with. I'd much prefer the way it used to be and would put pressure to focus more on skills up to under 18. Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 696 - 22/05/2022 21:55:02 2419556 Link 0 |
You are correct in saying it was a great effort from the players. Losing on penalties is always hard to take. When we were 3 points up we had a chance to add a point but it dropped short and Tyrone went up and scored from it. That was the turning point for me. Mc Menamin from Termon showed great composure to score the equalizing point. As for not picking players from certain clubs, i totally disagree. Barret had trials and players were cut , some that were cut were recalled and given another chance. He has chosen players from every division in his time as manager. This sounds like players from your club didn't get on and you are annoyed about that. donegaldouble (Donegal) - Posts: 310 - 23/05/2022 10:14:34 2419602 Link 1 |
It doesn't make a blind bit of difference if it's u17, u18, u20 or u21. Our problem is all these text book over coached managers that are destroying football in donegal both in club management and county level. The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 23/05/2022 10:56:37 2419617 Link 0 |
I hope Donegal wipe the floor with Derry. Their "supporters" both local & around the field were horrible in the Monaghan v Derry match.Derry 100% won that match, we were well beat But, one of the goals they got, the scorer got right in Rory's face, That's not how we do GAA, & I have never seen such a lack of respect or kindness to other supporters as I seen from Derry. I hope Donegal beat the living daylights out of them. And we look forward to getting our county players back. Club first & foremost!!
BorderlineBlue (Monaghan) - Posts: 10 - 23/05/2022 11:29:56 2419632 Link 0 |
I agree with a lot of that. Football has become very formulaic and especially at club level, boring to watch. At club games I have been at recently I've spent most of the time chatting as teams retain possession at all costs. Noone is saying that there should be a return to the old days where the tactics were simply to kick it down the pitch as quickly as possible. But at the moment nearly every team I watch is much too often erring on the side of caution. In the u20 final recently it was fantastic (albeit from a Tyrone man) to see Ruairí Canavan almost at full pelt ping a superb ball into the inside forward line which resulted in a score. So simple and effective but you'd get the feeling that most club managers would have a conniption if they saw their players attempt it. Now granted young Canavan is a unique talent, but at the same time if we're discouraging our young players to play safe the entire time, you'll never win the biggest games or titles. Structure will only take you so far. To dare is to do, carpe diem, etc There has to be an element of ingenuity and spontaneity to sport, otherwise it's just not fun. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9151 - 23/05/2022 11:36:43 2419638 Link 2 |
Worried that Derry could blow us away with their intensity. Look at games in the past we lost, Cavan, Mayo, Tyrone. On each occasion these 3 teams made us look very ordinary with their power which Derry has in plentiful supply. Derry will be a great test for our defence to see if we have improved on the goal front. Last year they could have had 2 to 3 goals, let's see if Paddy Campbell and the backroom team have us set up better this year. TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 1142 - 24/05/2022 18:12:49 2420044 Link 0 |
Firstly, I am rarely negative in my posts. And I wouldn't suggest getting dragged into a shootout against any team, let alone Tyrone. Although you have to respect the opposition, and the dangers they pose, the reality is that we played very well and got in level at half time. In the third quarter, and aided by a good breeze, we played all the ball and opened up a three point lead. Then, we regressed. We didn't score for nearly 40 minutes. Personally I'd wonder if it was the experience of almost losing a 16 point lead the week before which led to the conservative approach. I agree with your view on the U20's, definitely one that got away. We simply couldn't cope with McGleenan, we didn't even have a man to spoil him. Funnily enough, the substitutions in that game were positive, with Carlos especially making a massive contribution. Not only has U17 been a mistake, but the move to the odd rather than even ages has been a disaster. I'm involved in coaching teams at both ends of the age groups. Give me U8's and U18's every day. SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 585 - 24/05/2022 20:49:26 2420061 Link 0 |
An interesting point re: Paddy Campbell. Everyone is making a big song and dance about how Rory knows Donegal football inside out. The same could be said of Paddy with Derry football. I could be wrong but I think he has been based in Derry for years and was involved in a lot of their underage squads in the recewnt past? Could be a wee ace in the hole for Donegal that hasn't really been spoken too much about.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9151 - 25/05/2022 10:58:09 2420113 Link 1 |
As Rory said this morning on the radio"everybody knows everything about everybody else in Ulster" and it will be about who performs on the day.In my opinion Donegal are better than Derry and they should concentrate on putting them on the back foot early on.If it develops into a defensive chess game anything can happen,a break here or there or a mistake could swing it.Logically everything points to a Donegal win but Derry have nothing to lose and we can't afford to give them confidence like we gave to Cavan.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1059 - 25/05/2022 15:57:25 2420202 Link 0 |
Yeah I think we absolutely need to push up on Odhran Lynch's kickouts from the get-go. Play McGee, McGonigle, Langan, Thompson and Murphy in a line. If Derry can win more possession than us off of that then they'll be in business but it's hard to see it. Another thing I'd be emphasising is getting a shot off at every attack if possible. Ideally and obviously over the bar preferably, but if not makes sure it's dead. We have to take Derry's counter attacking weapon from them as much as possible. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9151 - 25/05/2022 16:09:01 2420210 Link 0 |
I know you don't post negatively. I really felt for the team and management because they left it all on the field and just came up a little short. Some of the posts on here were over the top. I do though agree they should gave pushed on a little to win it. One more point would have probably done it. Players do get tired though and you can't ignore that either. Carlos looks like a player alright. I think he'll get on in the club championship and lyit sigerson next year. Mcgroddy also seems to be playing well for downings. Agree completely on the whole age group mess. They made a mess of it and the 'elites' of the gaa seem to have no intention of fixing it. Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 696 - 25/05/2022 18:58:41 2420250 Link 0 |
The spontaneity ship set sail from the GAA port a while ago now sadly. Teams are now over coached (both at club and county level) and players are like robots always instructed to air on the side of caution. I think it will affect numbers playing the game in the long run with enjoyment being squeezed out of the game and players losing interest. peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 806 - 25/05/2022 19:11:01 2420252 Link 0 |
We definitely should target the Derry kick out. However, Derry used the tactic on their own kick outs against Monaghan of bringing everyone into a huddle up the middle, and then breaking out to the wings at the last minute. This could potentially scupper the influence of our line of big men, and lesds to debate whether we should go zonal or man to man. It took Monaghan until the second half to get to grips with this. I hope we have a plan in place.
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 585 - 25/05/2022 20:58:36 2420261 Link 0 |
We will beat Derry, they showed their hand in the Monaghan game, and if it hadn't been for that 3rd goal in the 2nd half, Monaghan would have been right back in it. Rory Gallagher to date has won nothing of significance as either a club or County manager, and I don't think that is about to change. Declan Bonner & Co have had 3 weeks to prepare, the Monaghan game showed us a lot about Derry's system, as the Farney men started to suss it out in the 2nd half, but conceding 3 goals left the gap too wide. They key to winning this will be - Our half forwards, midfield and half backs contributing to the scoring, we need Michael Langan, Ciaran Thompson and the others to step up. - Donegal conceding no goals or certainly no more than one goal. - No red cards or black cards, we need 15 men on the pitch for the full game. Expecting Michael Murphy and Paddy McBrearty to be marked out of it by Rodgers and McKaigue, so we should use that strategically and drag Murphy and McBrearty out of the way and open up space in front of Derry's keeper. Kick-outs will be an interesting one, will Derry compete for them or let us go short/medium and have every Derry player back inside their own 45. Cracking game coming up. Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 26/05/2022 09:09:11 2420273 Link 0 |
Just wondering if there are any supporters busses running from the County on Sunday? Beagslife (Donegal) - Posts: 4 - 26/05/2022 10:17:43 2420282 Link 0 |
The tactical battle will certainly be an intriguing one. I wonder will we see Bonner on the sideline and Rochford in the stand? Any wee advantage that can be eked out should be explored. I've listened to a few different podcasts this week and the common theme seems to be that Donegal should go after Derry's kickouts and look to dominate early on in order to establish a lead. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9151 - 26/05/2022 10:27:38 2420285 Link 0 |
I would say in terms of possession Lockjaw that even if Derry concede the kickout to us, Patton should still try and go long to get up the pitch quicker on occasion. I also think the 2nd half from Monaghan is the template as they were coming back into the game and Derry were, in my view, getting in to a bit of bother until that 3rd goal. JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 26/05/2022 11:12:12 2420300 Link 0 |