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Donegal GAA thread

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Replying To RoryGall35:  "Well folks, very disappointing couple of results after happening.. U20 lost to Tyrone in extra time, minors lost in penalties and the ladies lost in extra time.. What is it about Donegal teams.. Are we going back to the soft touch of pre McGuinness times.. Its just so gut wrenching.. What yous all reckon.."
Unlucky I guess, penalties are a complete lottery, both the minors and u20s were good solid teams but lacked marquee forwards. You can be the best coach in the world but you still need talented forwards, both teams were a little too defence minded and lacked balance imo

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 920 - 22/05/2022 20:30:37    2419519

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Replying To RoryGall35:  "Well folks, very disappointing couple of results after happening.. U20 lost to Tyrone in extra time, minors lost in penalties and the ladies lost in extra time.. What is it about Donegal teams.. Are we going back to the soft touch of pre McGuinness times.. Its just so gut wrenching.. What yous all reckon.."
It seems so. And it seems that the culture within the different management teams seems to be all quite negative. They probably have a buzz word for it, control, or something like that.

When the minors went 0-08 to 0-05 up yesterday evening, and playing with a good breeze, instead of trying to helm Tyrone in, we played laterally in our own half, inviting on pressure that we didn't need. It's all very well when it works, sucking a team out, but aligned with that, you have to recognise where the space is, and to attack it. But again last night, we invited them on, but didn't manipulate them to our advantage.

In those situations, you have to have good decision makers, but it appears that the intelligence is coached out of them, the player who can spot a gap, and how to take advantage of it. I've said here before about death by coaching, like American football players who have decisions made for them.

And then last night, the same as the 20's, when they abandoned the game management and went for broke, Bingo Ted, it worked.

SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 585 - 22/05/2022 20:54:09    2419534

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Replying To SouthOfTheGap:  "It seems so. And it seems that the culture within the different management teams seems to be all quite negative. They probably have a buzz word for it, control, or something like that.

When the minors went 0-08 to 0-05 up yesterday evening, and playing with a good breeze, instead of trying to helm Tyrone in, we played laterally in our own half, inviting on pressure that we didn't need. It's all very well when it works, sucking a team out, but aligned with that, you have to recognise where the space is, and to attack it. But again last night, we invited them on, but didn't manipulate them to our advantage.

In those situations, you have to have good decision makers, but it appears that the intelligence is coached out of them, the player who can spot a gap, and how to take advantage of it. I've said here before about death by coaching, like American football players who have decisions made for them.

And then last night, the same as the 20's, when they abandoned the game management and went for broke, Bingo Ted, it worked."
Excellent post. I also agreed with the point someone made about having marquee forwards which was certainly true with the under twenties but I do think last nights minors had a decent forward line. The problem was with the way we played it was impossible to flourish as no real decent ball came in of note with both sides reciprocating the other in terms of the defensive set ups. Sure there was multiple hand passes just to make 5 yards with virtually little quick ball in.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 22/05/2022 21:02:56    2419539

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Replying To SouthOfTheGap:  "It seems so. And it seems that the culture within the different management teams seems to be all quite negative. They probably have a buzz word for it, control, or something like that.

When the minors went 0-08 to 0-05 up yesterday evening, and playing with a good breeze, instead of trying to helm Tyrone in, we played laterally in our own half, inviting on pressure that we didn't need. It's all very well when it works, sucking a team out, but aligned with that, you have to recognise where the space is, and to attack it. But again last night, we invited them on, but didn't manipulate them to our advantage.

In those situations, you have to have good decision makers, but it appears that the intelligence is coached out of them, the player who can spot a gap, and how to take advantage of it. I've said here before about death by coaching, like American football players who have decisions made for them.

And then last night, the same as the 20's, when they abandoned the game management and went for broke, Bingo Ted, it worked."
I think this is far too simplistic and to be honest I think a lot of the posters in here are all to quote you "quite negative". You can't ignore the opposition. Tyrone won their minor league group matches by roughly 20 points a match. Admittedly it looks like some of the teams in their group were poor and they just got over a derry team in the league final. But they then beat cavan by 8 points in the championship and then antrim (a team that beat monaghan) by 22 points. Cavan did beat us in the ulster league.
Based on them results was there a point going out to play tyrone in a shootout. Maybe if they had met them in the league or played them under 16 they would have a better sense but on all evidence the approach was right. The tactics worked really well and they really rattled tyrone and could have pushed on but don't ignore the fatigue element.

The under 20s to me is one that got away. Tyrone had themselves fully dialed in for that game and donegal were not quite at in initially. Donegal also hadn't one test that year and ultimately finished with a better balanced team at the end than they had at the start with more free scoring forwards on the pitch. Mcglennan was also exceptional for them and we conceded two goals directly from their kickouts which you really can't do. Tyrone did win the all ireland by the way!

I've mentioned in an earlier post that I really don't like minors being under 17 because it brings tactics in too soon with. I'd much prefer the way it used to be and would put pressure to focus more on skills up to under 18.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 696 - 22/05/2022 21:55:02    2419556

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "Once again our underage management is the reason we lose out at the minor grade. Great effort by the players and a horrible way to lose against Tyrone but game management from the sideline was terrible. That's his third year in charge and you have to wonder why? When will the county board wake up that financial backing of a manager and club preferences in player selection are ruining Donegal Underage Football. We need to be picking managers that are in it for the right reasons."
You are correct in saying it was a great effort from the players. Losing on penalties is always hard to take.
When we were 3 points up we had a chance to add a point but it dropped short and Tyrone went up and scored from it. That was the turning point for me. Mc Menamin from Termon showed great composure to score the equalizing point.

As for not picking players from certain clubs, i totally disagree. Barret had trials and players were cut , some that were cut were recalled and given another chance. He has chosen players from every division in his time as manager. This sounds like players from your club didn't get on and you are annoyed about that.

donegaldouble (Donegal) - Posts: 310 - 23/05/2022 10:14:34    2419602

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It doesn't make a blind bit of difference if it's u17, u18, u20 or u21. Our problem is all these text book over coached managers that are destroying football in donegal both in club management and county level.
And sadly its going the whole way down to u12 now.
Is mcguinness to blame, well you can argue both for and against that point.
I personally dont blame mcguinness for he brought us success and when given time he turned us into a series counter attacking team with fitness levels that broke teams.
The problem is there is lesser coaches trying to copy that, and sadly these coaches are not at mcguinness level when it comes to preparing teams.
I remember watching a club game where my club team were 8 points up mid second half, and still the opposition played 14 men behind the ball, simple because they were coached no other way.
My own club was involved in one of the worst county finals ever against kilcar, where we were a few points behind with 10 minutes to go, and still do not throw caution to the wind, why, because of this bull about trusting the process.
Christ i watched senior players after the cavan game being interviewed, and all i heard was, trust the process, gameplan, all the usual. It was actually embarrassing.
We are hold players back with this over coaching from reaching there true potential.
Yes have strength and conditioning and you need strength and power. But let a team play to win, not to limit the opposition.

The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 23/05/2022 10:56:37    2419617

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Replying To border Gael:  "I think Donegal won't make the same mistakes as Monaghan and they willbe the new Ulster Champions."
I hope Donegal wipe the floor with Derry. Their "supporters" both local & around the field were horrible in the Monaghan v Derry match.Derry 100% won that match, we were well beat But, one of the goals they got, the scorer got right in Rory's face, That's not how we do GAA, & I have never seen such a lack of respect or kindness to other supporters as I seen from Derry. I hope Donegal beat the living daylights out of them. And we look forward to getting our county players back. Club first & foremost!!

BorderlineBlue (Monaghan) - Posts: 10 - 23/05/2022 11:29:56    2419632

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Replying To The keeper:  "It doesn't make a blind bit of difference if it's u17, u18, u20 or u21. Our problem is all these text book over coached managers that are destroying football in donegal both in club management and county level.
And sadly its going the whole way down to u12 now.
Is mcguinness to blame, well you can argue both for and against that point.
I personally dont blame mcguinness for he brought us success and when given time he turned us into a series counter attacking team with fitness levels that broke teams.
The problem is there is lesser coaches trying to copy that, and sadly these coaches are not at mcguinness level when it comes to preparing teams.
I remember watching a club game where my club team were 8 points up mid second half, and still the opposition played 14 men behind the ball, simple because they were coached no other way.
My own club was involved in one of the worst county finals ever against kilcar, where we were a few points behind with 10 minutes to go, and still do not throw caution to the wind, why, because of this bull about trusting the process.
Christ i watched senior players after the cavan game being interviewed, and all i heard was, trust the process, gameplan, all the usual. It was actually embarrassing.
We are hold players back with this over coaching from reaching there true potential.
Yes have strength and conditioning and you need strength and power. But let a team play to win, not to limit the opposition."
I agree with a lot of that. Football has become very formulaic and especially at club level, boring to watch. At club games I have been at recently I've spent most of the time chatting as teams retain possession at all costs. Noone is saying that there should be a return to the old days where the tactics were simply to kick it down the pitch as quickly as possible. But at the moment nearly every team I watch is much too often erring on the side of caution.

In the u20 final recently it was fantastic (albeit from a Tyrone man) to see Ruairí Canavan almost at full pelt ping a superb ball into the inside forward line which resulted in a score. So simple and effective but you'd get the feeling that most club managers would have a conniption if they saw their players attempt it. Now granted young Canavan is a unique talent, but at the same time if we're discouraging our young players to play safe the entire time, you'll never win the biggest games or titles. Structure will only take you so far. To dare is to do, carpe diem, etc

There has to be an element of ingenuity and spontaneity to sport, otherwise it's just not fun.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9151 - 23/05/2022 11:36:43    2419638

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Worried that Derry could blow us away with their intensity. Look at games in the past we lost, Cavan, Mayo, Tyrone. On each occasion these 3 teams made us look very ordinary with their power which Derry has in plentiful supply. Derry will be a great test for our defence to see if we have improved on the goal front. Last year they could have had 2 to 3 goals, let's see if Paddy Campbell and the backroom team have us set up better this year.

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 1142 - 24/05/2022 18:12:49    2420044

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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32:  "I think this is far too simplistic and to be honest I think a lot of the posters in here are all to quote you "quite negative". You can't ignore the opposition. Tyrone won their minor league group matches by roughly 20 points a match. Admittedly it looks like some of the teams in their group were poor and they just got over a derry team in the league final. But they then beat cavan by 8 points in the championship and then antrim (a team that beat monaghan) by 22 points. Cavan did beat us in the ulster league.
Based on them results was there a point going out to play tyrone in a shootout. Maybe if they had met them in the league or played them under 16 they would have a better sense but on all evidence the approach was right. The tactics worked really well and they really rattled tyrone and could have pushed on but don't ignore the fatigue element.

The under 20s to me is one that got away. Tyrone had themselves fully dialed in for that game and donegal were not quite at in initially. Donegal also hadn't one test that year and ultimately finished with a better balanced team at the end than they had at the start with more free scoring forwards on the pitch. Mcglennan was also exceptional for them and we conceded two goals directly from their kickouts which you really can't do. Tyrone did win the all ireland by the way!

I've mentioned in an earlier post that I really don't like minors being under 17 because it brings tactics in too soon with. I'd much prefer the way it used to be and would put pressure to focus more on skills up to under 18."
Firstly, I am rarely negative in my posts. And I wouldn't suggest getting dragged into a shootout against any team, let alone Tyrone. Although you have to respect the opposition, and the dangers they pose, the reality is that we played very well and got in level at half time. In the third quarter, and aided by a good breeze, we played all the ball and opened up a three point lead. Then, we regressed. We didn't score for nearly 40 minutes. Personally I'd wonder if it was the experience of almost losing a 16 point lead the week before which led to the conservative approach.

I agree with your view on the U20's, definitely one that got away. We simply couldn't cope with McGleenan, we didn't even have a man to spoil him. Funnily enough, the substitutions in that game were positive, with Carlos especially making a massive contribution.

Not only has U17 been a mistake, but the move to the odd rather than even ages has been a disaster. I'm involved in coaching teams at both ends of the age groups. Give me U8's and U18's every day.

SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 585 - 24/05/2022 20:49:26    2420061

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Replying To TheRock2121:  "Worried that Derry could blow us away with their intensity. Look at games in the past we lost, Cavan, Mayo, Tyrone. On each occasion these 3 teams made us look very ordinary with their power which Derry has in plentiful supply. Derry will be a great test for our defence to see if we have improved on the goal front. Last year they could have had 2 to 3 goals, let's see if Paddy Campbell and the backroom team have us set up better this year."
An interesting point re: Paddy Campbell. Everyone is making a big song and dance about how Rory knows Donegal football inside out. The same could be said of Paddy with Derry football. I could be wrong but I think he has been based in Derry for years and was involved in a lot of their underage squads in the recewnt past? Could be a wee ace in the hole for Donegal that hasn't really been spoken too much about.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9151 - 25/05/2022 10:58:09    2420113

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "An interesting point re: Paddy Campbell. Everyone is making a big song and dance about how Rory knows Donegal football inside out. The same could be said of Paddy with Derry football. I could be wrong but I think he has been based in Derry for years and was involved in a lot of their underage squads in the recewnt past? Could be a wee ace in the hole for Donegal that hasn't really been spoken too much about."
As Rory said this morning on the radio"everybody knows everything about everybody else in Ulster" and it will be about who performs on the day.In my opinion Donegal are better than Derry and they should concentrate on putting them on the back foot early on.If it develops into a defensive chess game anything can happen,a break here or there or a mistake could swing it.Logically everything points to a Donegal win but Derry have nothing to lose and we can't afford to give them confidence like we gave to Cavan.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1059 - 25/05/2022 15:57:25    2420202

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Replying To gunman:  "As Rory said this morning on the radio"everybody knows everything about everybody else in Ulster" and it will be about who performs on the day.In my opinion Donegal are better than Derry and they should concentrate on putting them on the back foot early on.If it develops into a defensive chess game anything can happen,a break here or there or a mistake could swing it.Logically everything points to a Donegal win but Derry have nothing to lose and we can't afford to give them confidence like we gave to Cavan."
Yeah I think we absolutely need to push up on Odhran Lynch's kickouts from the get-go. Play McGee, McGonigle, Langan, Thompson and Murphy in a line. If Derry can win more possession than us off of that then they'll be in business but it's hard to see it.

Another thing I'd be emphasising is getting a shot off at every attack if possible. Ideally and obviously over the bar preferably, but if not makes sure it's dead. We have to take Derry's counter attacking weapon from them as much as possible.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9151 - 25/05/2022 16:09:01    2420210

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Replying To SouthOfTheGap:  "Firstly, I am rarely negative in my posts. And I wouldn't suggest getting dragged into a shootout against any team, let alone Tyrone. Although you have to respect the opposition, and the dangers they pose, the reality is that we played very well and got in level at half time. In the third quarter, and aided by a good breeze, we played all the ball and opened up a three point lead. Then, we regressed. We didn't score for nearly 40 minutes. Personally I'd wonder if it was the experience of almost losing a 16 point lead the week before which led to the conservative approach.

I agree with your view on the U20's, definitely one that got away. We simply couldn't cope with McGleenan, we didn't even have a man to spoil him. Funnily enough, the substitutions in that game were positive, with Carlos especially making a massive contribution.

Not only has U17 been a mistake, but the move to the odd rather than even ages has been a disaster. I'm involved in coaching teams at both ends of the age groups. Give me U8's and U18's every day."
I know you don't post negatively. I really felt for the team and management because they left it all on the field and just came up a little short. Some of the posts on here were over the top. I do though agree they should gave pushed on a little to win it. One more point would have probably done it. Players do get tired though and you can't ignore that either.
Carlos looks like a player alright. I think he'll get on in the club championship and lyit sigerson next year. Mcgroddy also seems to be playing well for downings.
Agree completely on the whole age group mess. They made a mess of it and the 'elites' of the gaa seem to have no intention of fixing it.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 696 - 25/05/2022 18:58:41    2420250

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "I agree with a lot of that. Football has become very formulaic and especially at club level, boring to watch. At club games I have been at recently I've spent most of the time chatting as teams retain possession at all costs. Noone is saying that there should be a return to the old days where the tactics were simply to kick it down the pitch as quickly as possible. But at the moment nearly every team I watch is much too often erring on the side of caution.

In the u20 final recently it was fantastic (albeit from a Tyrone man) to see Ruairí Canavan almost at full pelt ping a superb ball into the inside forward line which resulted in a score. So simple and effective but you'd get the feeling that most club managers would have a conniption if they saw their players attempt it. Now granted young Canavan is a unique talent, but at the same time if we're discouraging our young players to play safe the entire time, you'll never win the biggest games or titles. Structure will only take you so far. To dare is to do, carpe diem, etc

There has to be an element of ingenuity and spontaneity to sport, otherwise it's just not fun."
The spontaneity ship set sail from the GAA port a while ago now sadly.

Teams are now over coached (both at club and county level) and players are like robots always instructed to air on the side of caution.

I think it will affect numbers playing the game in the long run with enjoyment being squeezed out of the game and players losing interest.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 806 - 25/05/2022 19:11:01    2420252

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yeah I think we absolutely need to push up on Odhran Lynch's kickouts from the get-go. Play McGee, McGonigle, Langan, Thompson and Murphy in a line. If Derry can win more possession than us off of that then they'll be in business but it's hard to see it.

Another thing I'd be emphasising is getting a shot off at every attack if possible. Ideally and obviously over the bar preferably, but if not makes sure it's dead. We have to take Derry's counter attacking weapon from them as much as possible."
We definitely should target the Derry kick out. However, Derry used the tactic on their own kick outs against Monaghan of bringing everyone into a huddle up the middle, and then breaking out to the wings at the last minute. This could potentially scupper the influence of our line of big men, and lesds to debate whether we should go zonal or man to man. It took Monaghan until the second half to get to grips with this. I hope we have a plan in place.

SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 585 - 25/05/2022 20:58:36    2420261

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Replying To TheRock2121:  "Worried that Derry could blow us away with their intensity. Look at games in the past we lost, Cavan, Mayo, Tyrone. On each occasion these 3 teams made us look very ordinary with their power which Derry has in plentiful supply. Derry will be a great test for our defence to see if we have improved on the goal front. Last year they could have had 2 to 3 goals, let's see if Paddy Campbell and the backroom team have us set up better this year."
We will beat Derry, they showed their hand in the Monaghan game, and if it hadn't been for that 3rd goal in the 2nd half, Monaghan would have been right back in it.

Rory Gallagher to date has won nothing of significance as either a club or County manager, and I don't think that is about to change. Declan Bonner & Co have had 3 weeks to prepare, the Monaghan game showed us a lot about Derry's system, as the Farney men started to suss it out in the 2nd half, but conceding 3 goals left the gap too wide.

They key to winning this will be
- Our half forwards, midfield and half backs contributing to the scoring, we need Michael Langan, Ciaran Thompson and the others to step up.
- Donegal conceding no goals or certainly no more than one goal.
- No red cards or black cards, we need 15 men on the pitch for the full game.

Expecting Michael Murphy and Paddy McBrearty to be marked out of it by Rodgers and McKaigue, so we should use that strategically and drag Murphy and McBrearty out of the way and open up space in front of Derry's keeper. Kick-outs will be an interesting one, will Derry compete for them or let us go short/medium and have every Derry player back inside their own 45. Cracking game coming up.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 26/05/2022 09:09:11    2420273

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Just wondering if there are any supporters busses running from the County on Sunday?

Car out of action but hoping to make the game. In the South of the County, but could probably get further North if a bus was running.

Beagslife (Donegal) - Posts: 4 - 26/05/2022 10:17:43    2420282

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The tactical battle will certainly be an intriguing one. I wonder will we see Bonner on the sideline and Rochford in the stand? Any wee advantage that can be eked out should be explored. I've listened to a few different podcasts this week and the common theme seems to be that Donegal should go after Derry's kickouts and look to dominate early on in order to establish a lead.

But looking at the stats from the Derry Monaghan match, I don't think Rory Gallagher will be too alarmed if Donegal win a lot of possession from restarts. They may even concede Donegal's kickout.
- Monaghan had 62 attacks compared to Derry's 28.
- Monaghan had 36 shots to Derry's 28.
- Monaghan won 10 more possessions from kickouts
- Derry scored 3-12 from their 20 attempts at goal

I think the key will be to disrupt Derry's transition. Noone likes to see it but little tactical "half-fouls" will need to be deployed to disrupt their rhythm, and we'll need to reduce our number of turnovers conceded big time. Conceding turnovers to Derry is like giving oxygen to a fire.

Rory Kavanagh made a point about discipline as well. It will be vital that we keep our heads. It will be hot and heavy and the last thing we need is to find ourselves down a man for doing something stupid. Tyrone fell for it hook, line and sinker and the game was more or less beyond them at half time.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9151 - 26/05/2022 10:27:38    2420285

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I would say in terms of possession Lockjaw that even if Derry concede the kickout to us, Patton should still try and go long to get up the pitch quicker on occasion. I also think the 2nd half from Monaghan is the template as they were coming back into the game and Derry were, in my view, getting in to a bit of bother until that 3rd goal.

I think we have to be accurate, the likes of Langan and Thompson need to be on form with their shooting, but I trust that if we got anywhere near that Monaghan possession we will win.

I agree with you in terms of not giving Derry oxygen on their turnovers, and if we keep them down to 1 goal maximum I think that will go a long way to winning.

In terms of matchups I have been thinking McCole will pick up McGuigan, but will it possibly be McMenamin? He picked up McKiernan and McGuigan isn't very pacey that I would worry for McMenamin in that regard.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 26/05/2022 11:12:12    2420300

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