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When I seen the starting line-up yesterday, I suspected we would have a bad day.

My Analysis
- Donegal defence is definitely stronger, Ward, McCole, McMenamin, Ban Gallagher, McFadden Ferry and Jack McKelvey/Tony McClenaghan are faces I am seeing as the six men in front of Patton. McMenamin is only back and will need time to reach full fitness, Bonner is still plugging defensive gaps with Ryan McHugh, which hasn't worked for years, leaving McClenaghan, Paul Brennan etc on the bench.

- Donegal's attack and midfield has been decimated this year, yesterday's starting line-up was missing Michael Murphy, Jamie Brennan, Oisin Gallen, Michael Langan, Niall O'Donnell, Caolan McGonigle and Hugh McFadden, in fact McBrearty and Thompson were the only two established front 8 players to start the game.

- Summary: Our defense is looking consistently stronger this year, in 5 games we have conceded 12 points on average. Our attack and midfield has been poor, we have only scored 10.6 points on average in 5 games so far. This is due to the vast number of experienced attacking players we are missing so far (See list above).
Our system of play is quite similar to Kerry, Mayo, Dublin and Monaghan, but when missing 7 or 8 key forward and midfield players, we just don't have the combined penetration or physicality in the middle or up front to pressure opposition teams. While I am very unhappy with yesterdays result and performance, I think key players returning will improve our scoring average, while improving fitness will improve our defense, so I wouldn't write us off just yet.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1470 - 14/03/2022 08:56:39    2405302

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Where would you start with that performance? It's difficult to remember such a poor showing in Ballybofey in recent years, think you would have to go back to the last days of the Rory Gallagher regime when we played Longford in that back door championship game. We have to take into consideration the amount of injuries but its not really the result I am worried about, more our slavish persistence with running the ball. Yet again, we had a wind advantage in the first half and didn't kick in a single ball to McGuinness, why pick him if we don't play to his strengths. We just have one tactic, if that doesn't work we are in trouble.

Despite missing the likes of Langan, McGonagle and Hughie, I don't think we lost the game at midfield. It was mostly short kick outs with not much contested at midfield. Jason McGee did very well, battled on when things were going against us. I thought McFadden-Ferry was our best player, really carried the fight. Brendan McCole was very good again, probably been our best player this year. In fact the defence did well, the goal apart. It was a decent showing from Aaron Doherty, he has bags of potential. It was good to see MM back and he did well.

The form of Ryan McHugh is a huge worry. I am a massive fan, he is a wonderful player but his confidence seems very low. Would a rest do him good? Give him a couple of week off training to see if that would help.

It is now less than 6 weeks to our first championship game against Armagh, some of our injured players are just not going to be ready. For example, Neil McGee hasn't played a single minute this year, Niall O'Donnell, Gallen and Jamie Brennan very little. Why are we getting so many injuries, is it just bad luck or something to do with the training they are doing?

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1932 - 14/03/2022 09:49:53    2405308

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Replying To rorysboys:  "Nobody knows why injuries happen even the top professional teams get them. Honestly at the moment it's injury after injury. One of the posters hit the nail on the head why Murphy had to be played around midfield.. if your missing Mc gonagle. Thomson. Langan. Hugh what do you expect. Mc gee done well . I am worried about the injuries but hopefully with 6 weeks to go we'll get back to full strength. Where to play Ryan is the teaser he has to play but where."
Does Ryan McHugh have to play? Can you give me an example of a big match against a top team in the last 4 years where he has been the stand out performer and he had driven the team to victory?
Actually I can't think of single big game where he stood out at all, apart from the odd game against weaker opposition who didn't pick him up properly (Down or Fermanagh maybe).

When pundits talk about opposition having sussed Donegal out, they are referring to our reliance on runners from deep, particularly on small lighter players like Ryan McHugh and Peadar Mogan, who are weak defensively and whom the big teams can easily cancel out with physicality, That is why we struggle with short kick-outs and prefer long kick-outs, as out lighter runners get picked off once they cross the half way line or are pressured at our own 45 and can't cover our full back line as well.

The issue was glossed over a little in recent seasons due to our attack raking up big scores against weaker sides, and then we come up against a strong physical side and every Donegal fan was scratching their heads afterwards as to why we hit a road block.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1470 - 14/03/2022 10:11:42    2405318

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Replying To naomh_conaill_4:  "Totally disagree I would definitely drop McHugh on form and maybe that would give him the spark he missing."
Yeah I would drop him from the team too, but not from the squad, he is still an asset and still has a role to play.

Daire O'Baoill and Charles McGuinness are also not cutting the mustard.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1470 - 14/03/2022 10:18:20    2405326

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Looking at the stats, its clear that Donegal missing 7 or 8 forwards/midfielders has been our problem.

Donegal 0-11 v 0-11 Mayo
Donegal 2-11 v 1-09 Kildare
Donegal 0-07 v 1-13 Kerry
Donegal 2-10 v 0-12 Tyrone.
Donegal 0-10 v 1-12 Monaghan.

However this may be the blessing in disguise we need, as had we not been missing most of those players, we would probably have secured Division 1 status and glossed over some weaknesses. Players can't hide at the minute, other big names are not there to cover for them and its showing in attack.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1470 - 14/03/2022 10:34:31    2405335

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Interesting that Colm O'Rourke noted our regression in terms of performance and style of play in the last couple of years.

At least we are not alone in our opinions on that.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1351 - 14/03/2022 10:39:59    2405337

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I think it is sort of pointless trying to analyse these league games too much because we are being badly disrupted by injuries:-
Hugh McFadden controls a game ,gets a huge amount of poscession
Caolan McGonigle drives forward and breaks the gain line which opens up defences
In the forward positions:-
Jamie Brennan has been our leading scorer from play and always offers an option for quick ball in
Niall O Donnell always worth a few points
Michael Langan has been scoring well recently
Michael Murphy obviously can score and there is the frees
Oisin Gallen although we we don't really know what he is capable of there should be scores there as well as good decision making
On the plus side all this gave a chance to younger players and I don't think any one of them at a time would weaken us greatly as long as we wouldn't have too many in any one game.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1196 - 14/03/2022 11:57:15    2405356

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Replying To Commodore:  "Looking at the stats, its clear that Donegal missing 7 or 8 forwards/midfielders has been our problem.

Donegal 0-11 v 0-11 Mayo
Donegal 2-11 v 1-09 Kildare
Donegal 0-07 v 1-13 Kerry
Donegal 2-10 v 0-12 Tyrone.
Donegal 0-10 v 1-12 Monaghan.

However this may be the blessing in disguise we need, as had we not been missing most of those players, we would probably have secured Division 1 status and glossed over some weaknesses. Players can't hide at the minute, other big names are not there to cover for them and its showing in attack."
I would agree that there's no hiding right now that's for sure. I'm glad that I'm not the only one feeling that attack is far and away the problem at the moment. I'm a bit disappointed that we are so reliant on personnel for this gameplan however, or that there doesn't seem to be much adapting to different circumstances. We're decimated with injuries to really important players, without a doubt, but I don't see much in the way of trying to cater to that or do something different to try and get over the line regardless.

I'll be like a broken record on this but going 20, 25, 30 minutes without a score will see us beat in every championship match against sides we are trying to emulate.

Langan coming back fit and firing will be a big help, especially with Jason McGee seemingly growing into things this year (please god he stays fit). Thompson didn't look fit from the start yesterday, I hope he hasn't done more damage.

Something to factor in yesterday is McBrearty was very poor in that first half which would have kept us in touch as well in spite of a rotten overall performance. He had two or three awful wides in that first half, one from a free if I remember right. We can usually rely on him especially from the frees.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 14/03/2022 12:05:57    2405359

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Replying To rorysboys:  "Your not a Monaghan man you were on after the Kerry defeat too. Get a life"
He's not wrong! Declan Bonner has wasted a golden generation of Donegal Footballers. By playing the way Donegal are playing he is restricting this talented bunch. You can defend Bonner and the backroom team all you like but it doesn't deter from the fact that this team, as talented as they are, are being held back by Bonner.

You can go on about how loyal you are and all this blah blah blah but it's there for all to see that Bonner needs to go. Would Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone or any of the teams sitting at the big table have kept their manager on season after season that hasn't qualified for an All Ireland semi final?

So all in all people wasting their money to go see that rubbish is out of their mind. And you can see that, from a team that had one of the best support in the country, is no longer one of the best supported. Gaelic football is becoming boring. Watching Donegal hand pass the ball back and forth and across the field would just put you off watching them let alone going to support them at McCumhaill Park or any park for that matter. If they were playing in my back yard today I'd close the curtains that's how sick I am of them and this is coming from someone who used to go to every game regardless if it was in Ballybofey and Killarney. And if that makes me not a real supporter then so be it Rorysboys but the reality of it is that you are just kidding yourself.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 178 - 14/03/2022 12:11:50    2405361

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "Interesting that Colm O'Rourke noted our regression in terms of performance and style of play in the last couple of years.

At least we are not alone in our opinions on that."
I would judge performances when we get a few of our players back. Off the top of my head yesterday we had c Mc gon.n Mc gee. M langan. Hugh Mc fadd .Oisin g . Jamie b and the two o donnell s not starting yesterday. Every one of them could start if fit for championship I'm not saying they all will and then we lose ciaran Thompson to a hamstring injury. You take any team losing that amount of talent Dublin being a prime example. They struggle d in the first 4 matches but there gradually getting a few players back and you could see yesterday the difference. Most people who know anything about football will understand why we lost yesterday.? Bonner needs a change of luck and then we can really judge him. I wudnt expect anyrthing else from o rourke he wudnt even know who was playing or who wasn't doing a bit of research would be too much hard work for the so called rte gaa pundits.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2667 - 14/03/2022 12:17:46    2405365

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Replying To Commodore:  "Does Ryan McHugh have to play? Can you give me an example of a big match against a top team in the last 4 years where he has been the stand out performer and he had driven the team to victory?
Actually I can't think of single big game where he stood out at all, apart from the odd game against weaker opposition who didn't pick him up properly (Down or Fermanagh maybe).

When pundits talk about opposition having sussed Donegal out, they are referring to our reliance on runners from deep, particularly on small lighter players like Ryan McHugh and Peadar Mogan, who are weak defensively and whom the big teams can easily cancel out with physicality, That is why we struggle with short kick-outs and prefer long kick-outs, as out lighter runners get picked off once they cross the half way line or are pressured at our own 45 and can't cover our full back line as well.

The issue was glossed over a little in recent seasons due to our attack raking up big scores against weaker sides, and then we come up against a strong physical side and every Donegal fan was scratching their heads afterwards as to why we hit a road block."
It takes a very good man to mark Ryan. Think it's unfair to say he hasn't done much. Vs Tyrone last year he set up 1-3.

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 1208 - 14/03/2022 12:32:33    2405370

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "He's not wrong! Declan Bonner has wasted a golden generation of Donegal Footballers. By playing the way Donegal are playing he is restricting this talented bunch. You can defend Bonner and the backroom team all you like but it doesn't deter from the fact that this team, as talented as they are, are being held back by Bonner.

You can go on about how loyal you are and all this blah blah blah but it's there for all to see that Bonner needs to go. Would Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone or any of the teams sitting at the big table have kept their manager on season after season that hasn't qualified for an All Ireland semi final?

So all in all people wasting their money to go see that rubbish is out of their mind. And you can see that, from a team that had one of the best support in the country, is no longer one of the best supported. Gaelic football is becoming boring. Watching Donegal hand pass the ball back and forth and across the field would just put you off watching them let alone going to support them at McCumhaill Park or any park for that matter. If they were playing in my back yard today I'd close the curtains that's how sick I am of them and this is coming from someone who used to go to every game regardless if it was in Ballybofey and Killarney. And if that makes me not a real supporter then so be it Rorysboys but the reality of it is that you are just kidding yourself."
You judge Donegal when they have there full quota available. Calling for Bonner's head six weeks out from championship is pretty stupid.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2667 - 14/03/2022 13:16:04    2405375

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Replying To TheRock2121:  "It takes a very good man to mark Ryan. Think it's unfair to say he hasn't done much. Vs Tyrone last year he set up 1-3."
The likes of Mayo, Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone, Cavan, Derry and Monaghan all have players who can take Ryan McHugh completely out of games, and players who mark Ryan usually get on the scoreboard themselves. Yet he is constantly mentioned as one of our big name players, because he is an automatic starter.

I'm not saying drop him from the Donegal panel, but he should not be an automatic starter based on form during the last 3 or 4 years. I'm specifically talking about games against Mayo 2019, Cavan 2020, Derry 2021, Tyrone 2021. And based on recent performances, I can't see that changing in 2022, so we need to change how we use Ryan McHugh, he can play a different role and continue his service with Donegal.

I don't like being critical of specific players here, I understand the hours they put in every week and I don't doubt they give their best whenever they pull on that Donegal jersey. I'm looking why we fall short in games, and sometimes we have to be honest and call it out when Management fail to see it.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1470 - 14/03/2022 13:29:18    2405379

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Just a general question to put out there.
Does it bother anyone else that half time breaks are taking 20 mins (maybe 21 mins yesterday) They could have done a ht time superbowl show in that time.
This is obviously not just a Donegal thing but it's just so long. Maybe the rain at ht and the first half performance made me more grumpy than normal!

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 943 - 14/03/2022 13:32:47    2405383

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I think if we retain div 1 that's job done, and also it's great there's lads getting a run they didn't expect so soon as someone said already there's no where to hide atm and the few that were just going through the motions are getting sussed. Heard young Curran got injured in warm up yesterday aswell I'd say he would of got a run only for that, wait till the end of this year and then judge the set up. There getting a bad run this while which happens to all teams. Remember tyrone got anilated in kerry last year then covid hit them and look what happened. Early days folks were gearing up for 6 wks and that's the target.

Tyrion (Donegal) - Posts: 172 - 14/03/2022 13:38:46    2405387

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Replying To Commodore:  "The likes of Mayo, Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone, Cavan, Derry and Monaghan all have players who can take Ryan McHugh completely out of games, and players who mark Ryan usually get on the scoreboard themselves. Yet he is constantly mentioned as one of our big name players, because he is an automatic starter.

I'm not saying drop him from the Donegal panel, but he should not be an automatic starter based on form during the last 3 or 4 years. I'm specifically talking about games against Mayo 2019, Cavan 2020, Derry 2021, Tyrone 2021. And based on recent performances, I can't see that changing in 2022, so we need to change how we use Ryan McHugh, he can play a different role and continue his service with Donegal.

I don't like being critical of specific players here, I understand the hours they put in every week and I don't doubt they give their best whenever they pull on that Donegal jersey. I'm looking why we fall short in games, and sometimes we have to be honest and call it out when Management fail to see it."
The 4 examples you give noted. He didn't do much in them games and was well marked. But who did play well? No one. (O Baoill stood out down in Mayo). Surely Ryan can't be asked to be the main man everytime. Maybe we need someone else chipping in with a few points. Then the opposition main man won't be on Ryan.!

While I'm arguing with you in one sense, I do agree that his position in the team is up for question. Maybe a bench starting spot could inspire him. Look at Sludden for Tyrone. Benched 2 years ago for them. Last year was an All Star(or close to it.)

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 1208 - 14/03/2022 14:40:54    2405397

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Replying To rorysboys:  "I would judge performances when we get a few of our players back. Off the top of my head yesterday we had c Mc gon.n Mc gee. M langan. Hugh Mc fadd .Oisin g . Jamie b and the two o donnell s not starting yesterday. Every one of them could start if fit for championship I'm not saying they all will and then we lose ciaran Thompson to a hamstring injury. You take any team losing that amount of talent Dublin being a prime example. They struggle d in the first 4 matches but there gradually getting a few players back and you could see yesterday the difference. Most people who know anything about football will understand why we lost yesterday.? Bonner needs a change of luck and then we can really judge him. I wudnt expect anyrthing else from o rourke he wudnt even know who was playing or who wasn't doing a bit of research would be too much hard work for the so called rte gaa pundits."
Sure what would a two time AI winner and 3 time All Star know?

He might not know who was missing but he knows how the game should be played and how it is played by the top teams. Playing possession football back to the keeper with a big wind is not the way it should be played.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1351 - 14/03/2022 14:55:42    2405403

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "Sure what would a two time AI winner and 3 time All Star know?

He might not know who was missing but he knows how the game should be played and how it is played by the top teams. Playing possession football back to the keeper with a big wind is not the way it should be played."
You need the personnel to play the game you want Donegal to play. Perfect example how many of patrons long kick outs did we win yesterday and that's not blaming Patton. Big difference when you have the likes of langan Mc gonagle. Hughie and Murphy to aim for. When you lack physical payers you play a running game.. just can't understand what your on about. Judge Donegal as I said before when we have a strong team on. In fairness a lot of the posters see this but you'll always get the few who don't want to see it. Keep the faith lad

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2667 - 14/03/2022 15:31:48    2405411

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Replying To TheRock2121:  "The 4 examples you give noted. He didn't do much in them games and was well marked. But who did play well? No one. (O Baoill stood out down in Mayo). Surely Ryan can't be asked to be the main man everytime. Maybe we need someone else chipping in with a few points. Then the opposition main man won't be on Ryan.!

While I'm arguing with you in one sense, I do agree that his position in the team is up for question. Maybe a bench starting spot could inspire him. Look at Sludden for Tyrone. Benched 2 years ago for them. Last year was an All Star(or close to it.)"
Maybe we need someone else chipping in with a few points. Then the opposition main man won't be on Ryan.!
The main man markers for opposing teams aren't on Ryan McHugh anymore, nor is the 2nd or 3rd choice man markers, those guys are usually on Murphy, McBrearty, Langan or Jamie Brennan etc.

Lately the top sides usually just stick a solid half back/forward on him, Mayo its Diarmuid O'Connor, Kerry stick Paul Murphy on him and Derry last year had big Gareth McKindless on him, which ended up being a one sided battle in Derry's favour. In order to be a top side, you need the bulk of the team winning their one to one battles across the pitch, and Ryan hasn't been doing that for quite a long time now.

"Surely Ryan can't be asked to be the main man everytime".
I agree, but he should be standing out as a leader or top player in at least some of those games, and never mind being the main man, he isn't even getting a mention in the top 6 or 7 players for any of those games.

While I'm arguing with you in one sense, I do agree that his position in the team is up for question. Maybe a bench starting spot could inspire him. Look at Sludden for Tyrone. Benched 2 years ago for them. Last year was an All Star(or close to it.)"
Yeah exactly, I'm not saying drop Ryan McHugh from the Panel, he still has a lot to offer Donegal, but his performances don't warrant a starting position lately and I personally think he would be more effective as a wing forward, even sometimes coming off the bench as a wing forward late on.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1470 - 14/03/2022 15:47:46    2405417

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Replying To rorysboys:  "You judge Donegal when they have there full quota available. Calling for Bonner's head six weeks out from championship is pretty stupid."
Donegal have had their full quota available many times in the past 4 years and they still haven't got to a semi final. I'm not judging Bonner on the past 6 weeks. Enough is enough and there is no excuse for playing football the way Donegal are playing football. Donegal have the talent to win an All Ireland but unfortunately it's not going to happen with Bonner at the helm. I'd love it if he was bluffing the whole country with this kind of football and will play open expansive football come the summer but somehow I can't see it. The point is that the Monaghan poster asking the question why any of us would pay to see them play right now was well entitled to ask the question as I completely agree with him. It's disgusting to watch such talented and skilled footballers play the game in a way where skill becomes a redundant attribute to have unless you call hand passing the ball to your mate that's 6 feet away skill.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 178 - 14/03/2022 15:59:37    2405420

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