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Replying To Trump2020: "I know what you're saying but what about them years when you have a "Group of Death" type of a group and one team loses to the others by one point? If the groups were all EQUAL then your way would make sense." In a group of death situation it would make it extremely competitive if only the top 2 qualified for the knockout stage! As it stands there are probably 3/4 really strong teams and then the rest are fairly even.
Going into the last round of group games this year 14 out of the 16 teams all had a chance of finishing in the top two of their respective groups with the exemption of Moycullen and Craughwell who had both lost their opening two games.
katser (Galway) - Posts: 2475 - 11/09/2024 14:16:03
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Replying To katser: "In a group of death situation it would make it extremely competitive if only the top 2 qualified for the knockout stage! As it stands there are probably 3/4 really strong teams and then the rest are fairly even.
Going into the last round of group games this year 14 out of the 16 teams all had a chance of finishing in the top two of their respective groups with the exemption of Moycullen and Craughwell who had both lost their opening two games." So, what's wrong with the competition structure as it is, then?
Why not make it even more 'competitive' and just have the group winners going to the semi finals and everyone else can go to the beach?
Wouldn't that be better? And if not why not?
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 905 - 12/09/2024 06:59:50
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Replying To Stool Pigeon: "So, what's wrong with the competition structure as it is, then?
Why not make it even more 'competitive' and just have the group winners going to the semi finals and everyone else can go to the beach?
Wouldn't that be better? And if not why not?" Great point and it only strengthens my point to Katzer as it would be mighty if all groups were equal but we know they're not. You get a group where there are 3 county final type teams and other groups are made up of almost all type teams, etc. Maybe seeding the groups would be better. Just a thought.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2260 - 12/09/2024 14:24:29
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Replying To Trump2020: "Great point and it only strengthens my point to Katzer as it would be mighty if all groups were equal but we know they're not. You get a group where there are 3 county final type teams and other groups are made up of almost all type teams, etc. Maybe seeding the groups would be better. Just a thought." The groups are seeded.
TanCanRan (Galway) - Posts: 209 - 12/09/2024 17:19:27
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Replying To Trump2020: "Great point and it only strengthens my point to Katzer as it would be mighty if all groups were equal but we know they're not. You get a group where there are 3 county final type teams and other groups are made up of almost all type teams, etc. Maybe seeding the groups would be better. Just a thought." I think the Preliminary Quarter Finals are a waste of 2 weeks.
It unnecessarily prolongs the Championship........you'll be looking at a Co.Final in November where as most other hurling Counties are at the Quarter Finals and Semi Finals stage now.
Can you name one 3rd group placed team in either Intermediate or Senior who can get to a Semi Final let alone a Co. Final......here is your choice........
Senior
Killimordaly, Craughwell, Ardrahan and Kilconerion
Intermediate
Rahoon-Newcastle, Abbeyknockmoy, Turloughmore and Craughwell.
katser (Galway) - Posts: 2475 - 12/09/2024 19:16:19
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Replying To katser: "I think the Preliminary Quarter Finals are a waste of 2 weeks.
It unnecessarily prolongs the Championship........you'll be looking at a Co.Final in November where as most other hurling Counties are at the Quarter Finals and Semi Finals stage now.
Can you name one 3rd group placed team in either Intermediate or Senior who can get to a Semi Final let alone a Co. Final......here is your choice........
Senior
Killimordaly, Craughwell, Ardrahan and Kilconerion
Intermediate
Rahoon-Newcastle, Abbeyknockmoy, Turloughmore and Craughwell." I agree that I can't see any of them getting any farther along.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2260 - 12/09/2024 20:26:43
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Replying To katser: "I think the Preliminary Quarter Finals are a waste of 2 weeks.
It unnecessarily prolongs the Championship........you'll be looking at a Co.Final in November where as most other hurling Counties are at the Quarter Finals and Semi Finals stage now.
Can you name one 3rd group placed team in either Intermediate or Senior who can get to a Semi Final let alone a Co. Final......here is your choice........
Senior
Killimordaly, Craughwell, Ardrahan and Kilconerion
Intermediate
Rahoon-Newcastle, Abbeyknockmoy, Turloughmore and Craughwell." It depends on what you want. If winning the county title is the be all and end all , then you have a point. But if you would like the eventual county champions to have the BEST chance to win the All Ireland, the system is fine as it is. The Munster and Leinster club hurling championships will be played in November. In fact the Munster club final is fixed for 1st December and the Leinster club final is due to be played that weekend as well. So there is no rush to play the county final any earlier. If the Galway final was scheduled for say, mid October and our county champions had to wait until mid-December to play their provincial semi final, the chances are more often than not they'd be beaten because 8 weeks inaction would leave them rusty.
Ok, others may argue then that our club champions should enter the Leinster or Munster club championships. But to do that would require major changes to the structure of the Galway club championship --- almost certainly we would have to reduce the number of senior A clubs to 12 in order to get our county final over and done with much earlier so that our county champions would be available to play in the early stages of the provincial championship. Good luck with trying to get the clubs to agree to that (and imo they'd be right not to).....better chance of getting turkeys to vote for Christmas.
Taking everything into account, the system is fine as it is in my opinion.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1953 - 12/09/2024 23:20:37
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "It depends on what you want. If winning the county title is the be all and end all , then you have a point. But if you would like the eventual county champions to have the BEST chance to win the All Ireland, the system is fine as it is. The Munster and Leinster club hurling championships will be played in November. In fact the Munster club final is fixed for 1st December and the Leinster club final is due to be played that weekend as well. So there is no rush to play the county final any earlier. If the Galway final was scheduled for say, mid October and our county champions had to wait until mid-December to play their provincial semi final, the chances are more often than not they'd be beaten because 8 weeks inaction would leave them rusty.
Ok, others may argue then that our club champions should enter the Leinster or Munster club championships. But to do that would require major changes to the structure of the Galway club championship --- almost certainly we would have to reduce the number of senior A clubs to 12 in order to get our county final over and done with much earlier so that our county champions would be available to play in the early stages of the provincial championship. Good luck with trying to get the clubs to agree to that (and imo they'd be right not to).....better chance of getting turkeys to vote for Christmas.
Taking everything into account, the system is fine as it is in my opinion." The Waterford Championship finished a few weeks ago and they have nine weeks to wait to play the Limerick Winners. They will that anyway, but at another time it could be a huge disadvantage. Hard to get a right balance.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 13/09/2024 07:42:09
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Replying To katser: "In a group of death situation it would make it extremely competitive if only the top 2 qualified for the knockout stage! As it stands there are probably 3/4 really strong teams and then the rest are fairly even.
Going into the last round of group games this year 14 out of the 16 teams all had a chance of finishing in the top two of their respective groups with the exemption of Moycullen and Craughwell who had both lost their opening two games." So, what's wrong with the competition structure as it is, then?
Why not make it even more 'competitive' and just have the group winners going to the semi finals and everyone else can go to the beach?
Wouldn't that be better? And if not why not?
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 905 - 13/09/2024 13:58:13
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What's the point with senior B. Why cant the top 8 in the intermediate join in with the Senior B and make a proper intermediate championship. Everyone else in intermediate go down to Junior as I am sorry, but that is your standard.
Kilbeacanty, Annaghdown and Kiltormer are struggling for years, at least Kilbeacanty and Kiltromer because of numbers, Annaghdown is because they are a football club and from what I see at their underage hurling they coaching is very poor. Skebellew, Abbeyknockmoy are Junior teams and are the same as Annaghdown footballers playing hurling. Rahoon Newcastle have been struggling for years at underage so they are nearly gone. You can also drop Turloughmore B, and Craughwell B. Let make the intermediate great again.
LottoPlus (Kilkenny) - Posts: 85 - 13/09/2024 15:26:45
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Replying To LottoPlus: "What's the point with senior B. Why cant the top 8 in the intermediate join in with the Senior B and make a proper intermediate championship. Everyone else in intermediate go down to Junior as I am sorry, but that is your standard.
Kilbeacanty, Annaghdown and Kiltormer are struggling for years, at least Kilbeacanty and Kiltromer because of numbers, Annaghdown is because they are a football club and from what I see at their underage hurling they coaching is very poor. Skebellew, Abbeyknockmoy are Junior teams and are the same as Annaghdown footballers playing hurling. Rahoon Newcastle have been struggling for years at underage so they are nearly gone. You can also drop Turloughmore B, and Craughwell B. Let make the intermediate great again." I agree completely. Senior B is no-man's land.
SixtiesKid (Galway) - Posts: 327 - 13/09/2024 16:08:24
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "It depends on what you want. If winning the county title is the be all and end all , then you have a point. But if you would like the eventual county champions to have the BEST chance to win the All Ireland, the system is fine as it is. The Munster and Leinster club hurling championships will be played in November. In fact the Munster club final is fixed for 1st December and the Leinster club final is due to be played that weekend as well. So there is no rush to play the county final any earlier. If the Galway final was scheduled for say, mid October and our county champions had to wait until mid-December to play their provincial semi final, the chances are more often than not they'd be beaten because 8 weeks inaction would leave them rusty.
Ok, others may argue then that our club champions should enter the Leinster or Munster club championships. But to do that would require major changes to the structure of the Galway club championship --- almost certainly we would have to reduce the number of senior A clubs to 12 in order to get our county final over and done with much earlier so that our county champions would be available to play in the early stages of the provincial championship. Good luck with trying to get the clubs to agree to that (and imo they'd be right not to).....better chance of getting turkeys to vote for Christmas.
Taking everything into account, the system is fine as it is in my opinion." I still don't see how by having Preliminary Quarter Finals will enhance a potential Championship winning teams effort in the All Ireland Semi Finals. Because who ever wins the Co. Cup certainly doesn't finish 3rd in their group.
I know what your saying about the long gap between winning the Co.Cup and playing in the All Ireland Semi Finals, but if a team is good enough they will just focus on themselves and play matches among their own 30 man squad in the mean while.
I don't know how it makes a better Club Championship by having a team who finishes 3rd in their group get a 2nd chance in a Preliminary Quarter Final, even if they did manage to sneek a win in the Preliminary Quarter Finals the chances are they would get hammered in the Quarter Finals!
Yes the objective of every Club is to win the County Final and then worry about winning the All Ireland Club.
4 groups of 4 with top 2 from each group into Quarter Finals
And if your not good enough to finish in the top 2 of your group (3rd) goodluck and try again next year.
katser (Galway) - Posts: 2475 - 13/09/2024 19:29:09
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "It depends on what you want. If winning the county title is the be all and end all , then you have a point. But if you would like the eventual county champions to have the BEST chance to win the All Ireland, the system is fine as it is. The Munster and Leinster club hurling championships will be played in November. In fact the Munster club final is fixed for 1st December and the Leinster club final is due to be played that weekend as well. So there is no rush to play the county final any earlier. If the Galway final was scheduled for say, mid October and our county champions had to wait until mid-December to play their provincial semi final, the chances are more often than not they'd be beaten because 8 weeks inaction would leave them rusty.
Ok, others may argue then that our club champions should enter the Leinster or Munster club championships. But to do that would require major changes to the structure of the Galway club championship --- almost certainly we would have to reduce the number of senior A clubs to 12 in order to get our county final over and done with much earlier so that our county champions would be available to play in the early stages of the provincial championship. Good luck with trying to get the clubs to agree to that (and imo they'd be right not to).....better chance of getting turkeys to vote for Christmas.
Taking everything into account, the system is fine as it is in my opinion." Bold to assume the Leinster or Munster clubs would entertain the idea of our club champions entering their competition tbf, even if we were keen on it which there's no huge appetite for.
The system is fine, as you say, though like others I am not averse to the idea of rebranding Senior B as Intermediate and expanding it. Senior B is defacto Intermediate anyway.
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 905 - 16/09/2024 09:02:28
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Replying To katser: "I still don't see how by having Preliminary Quarter Finals will enhance a potential Championship winning teams effort in the All Ireland Semi Finals. Because who ever wins the Co. Cup certainly doesn't finish 3rd in their group.
I know what your saying about the long gap between winning the Co.Cup and playing in the All Ireland Semi Finals, but if a team is good enough they will just focus on themselves and play matches among their own 30 man squad in the mean while.
I don't know how it makes a better Club Championship by having a team who finishes 3rd in their group get a 2nd chance in a Preliminary Quarter Final, even if they did manage to sneek a win in the Preliminary Quarter Finals the chances are they would get hammered in the Quarter Finals!
Yes the objective of every Club is to win the County Final and then worry about winning the All Ireland Club.
4 groups of 4 with top 2 from each group into Quarter Finals
And if your not good enough to finish in the top 2 of your group (3rd) goodluck and try again next year." You've a boil on your **** about this, what difference does it make to you, are you afraid someone might play a game or two more? What's your hurry? If there are too many matches for your liking nobody is forcing you to go and see them.
It's been pointed out to you that the system as it is doesn't hamper the county champions' efforts in the AI club.
It's also been pointed out to you that in recent history a team finishing 4th in a group has won Intermediate.
It has further been pointed out to you that it balances out the groups and gives everyone a fair shot, why should an obviously weaker team in a soft group get a chance to progress compared to a superior team in a more difficult group? The preliminaries equalise this potential anomaly and render the system to be fairer and teams get where they get on merit as opposed to the 'luck of the draw'.
I can assure you as a supporter of a team who has qualified for the IHC QF we are expecting a tough game from whoever we face and if that's a third place team then they obviously deserve to be there.
The objective/ambition of most clubs is to win the county final, I don't think many outside of Senior are too bothered after that.
Can you find something else to bellyache about as you're boring the tits off us at this stage
Stool Pigeon (Galway) - Posts: 905 - 16/09/2024 11:10:04
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Ok so the famous Preliminary Quarter Finals are on this weekend in both Senior and Intermediate.
Cappataggle v Killimordaly...................Cappy
Clarinbridge v Ardrahan.......................'Bridge
St.Thomas' v Craughwell.......................Thomas'
Castlegar v Kilconieron..........................Cashel
Senior Relegation Semi Finals
Mullagh v Moycullen.........................Mullagh
Gort v Oranmore-Maree...................Gort
Intermediate Preliminary Quarter Finals
Apart from Killimor all the other games is anybodies guess because none of them will go further than Quarter Final!!
Killimor v Craughwell.......................Killimor 20pts
Ballygar v Turloughmore.....?
Clarinbridge v Rahoon-Newcastle?
Sylane v Abbeyknockmoy?
katser (Galway) - Posts: 2475 - 17/09/2024 11:28:45
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Replying To katser: "Ok so the famous Preliminary Quarter Finals are on this weekend in both Senior and Intermediate.
Cappataggle v Killimordaly...................Cappy
Clarinbridge v Ardrahan.......................'Bridge
St.Thomas' v Craughwell.......................Thomas'
Castlegar v Kilconieron..........................Cashel
Senior Relegation Semi Finals
Mullagh v Moycullen.........................Mullagh
Gort v Oranmore-Maree...................Gort
Intermediate Preliminary Quarter Finals
Apart from Killimor all the other games is anybodies guess because none of them will go further than Quarter Final!!
Killimor v Craughwell.......................Killimor 20pts
Ballygar v Turloughmore.....?
Clarinbridge v Rahoon-Newcastle?
Sylane v Abbeyknockmoy?" According to your previous post Killimor don't deserve to either?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 17/09/2024 14:18:57
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St Thomas's v craughwell...... Thomas's by 6
Clarinbridge v ardrahan......... Clarinbridge by 3
Castlegar v kilconieron....... castle by 2
Cappataggle v killimordaly..... cappy by 2
Mullagh v moycullen........ moycullen by 1
Gort v oranmore maree.... oranmore by 3
Killimor v craughwell..... killimor 10 plus
Clarinbridge v rahoon Newcastle.... rahoon by 5
Ballygar v turloughmore..... ballygar by 3
Sylane v abbeyknockmoy..... sylane by 2
Annaghdown v kiltromer.... annaghdown by 8
Kilbancanty v skehana mountbellew moylough ...skbellew by 4
Off_the_post (Galway) - Posts: 7 - 17/09/2024 16:11:46
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When are the Senior Relegation Semi Finals on?
Gearoid1998ffowaed (Galway) - Posts: 131 - 17/09/2024 16:35:08
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Replying To katser: "I still don't see how by having Preliminary Quarter Finals will enhance a potential Championship winning teams effort in the All Ireland Semi Finals. Because who ever wins the Co. Cup certainly doesn't finish 3rd in their group.
I know what your saying about the long gap between winning the Co.Cup and playing in the All Ireland Semi Finals, but if a team is good enough they will just focus on themselves and play matches among their own 30 man squad in the mean while.
I don't know how it makes a better Club Championship by having a team who finishes 3rd in their group get a 2nd chance in a Preliminary Quarter Final, even if they did manage to sneek a win in the Preliminary Quarter Finals the chances are they would get hammered in the Quarter Finals!
Yes the objective of every Club is to win the County Final and then worry about winning the All Ireland Club.
4 groups of 4 with top 2 from each group into Quarter Finals
And if your not good enough to finish in the top 2 of your group (3rd) goodluck and try again next year." Honestly most clubs are looking just to win a county final and not beyond that.The more hurling and games teams get the better.Most of these lads have been training since early in the year and at least preliminary Q/F give them an extra game.We don't have provincial club like football clubs so we afford to have extra weekend playing hurling in Galway.
Alwaysencourage (Galway) - Posts: 369 - 17/09/2024 17:25:44
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Replying To Viking66: "According to your previous post Killimor don't deserve to either?" Killimor finished 2nd in their group. They will be in the Quarter Final.
In the Quarter Finals Meelick-Eyrecourt, Tynagh-Abbey/Duniry, Kinvara and Carnmore are all seeded (Group winners)
I wouldn't fancy Killimor v Meelick-Eyrecourt or TAD but I would give them a 50/50 chance v Kinvara or Carnmore.
katser (Galway) - Posts: 2475 - 17/09/2024 19:14:33
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