National Forum

Dublin Vs Kerry

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Replying To essmac:  "Good point. And even if the ref was technically correct, we all know that the overcarrying rule is so widely ignored that it might as well be taken out of the rule book. Plenty of other overcarrying in that game went unchecked by the ref. Thought it was a good goal . Think back to Murchan's goal in 2019 - he took about 10 steps. Goal stood. That kind of inconsistency at top level refereeing is infuriating"
Don't forget Brian Fenton's basketball shield on Killian Spillane to free up Murchan. Totally illegal but brilliantly done.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6180 - 23/05/2021 22:55:10    2344785

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Replying To jacktheDub:  "Wow people just dont have a clue rules like that play into blanket defences who will know when a team passes the half way line cant go back and will just smother the attacking team..the blanket is the curse on the game keeping the ball is what makes the blanket nonsense"
Well if dublins basketball hand passing tactics is the cure for the blanket defence then the cure is well and truly worse than the disease.

If the blanket defence is puke football then the dublin hand passing basketball tactics is diarrhea football.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 23/05/2021 23:33:47    2344789

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Unusual game to access, Kerry had more of the play but Dublin could have got 6 or 7 goals.

Hopefully the Moyinhan incident sharpens the focus to change back the tweak to the advantage rule.

Would be great if the next meeting between the 2 is in front of spectators.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 23/05/2021 23:41:12    2344791

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Fair enough if there is also a rule that each team must have a minimum number of players (say 5) in the opposition half at all times, then the team in possession will be more likely to have opportunities to pass forward and less opportunities to pass backwards."
Who would be responsible for counting them? Nice idea but impossible to implement

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1976 - 24/05/2021 00:24:14    2344798

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Replying To essmac:  "If Kerry even had a bad defence they'd have won that. Kerry defence is as bad as Tyrone's. Thought the penalty against Kerry was harsh. The tackle was a bit high, but it was soft, but the Dublin lad still goes down roaring as if he'd been tasered."
Hilarious coming from a Tyrone man !

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 940 - 24/05/2021 05:36:22    2344803

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "That defence you say? That's the only defence we have joxer, I'd say Dessie was smiling away to himself where ever he was held up, he got the handiest gig in gaelic football just go in and carry out Jim gavins basketball tactics with the athletes that have been farmed thanks to all the gaa money, in fairness the gaa are getting some return for their investment."
#6inarow , at least these Dublin players didn't bottle it like your lot going for the 5 in a row in '82 who incidentally were like a basketball team in their glory years, i remember them scoring an awful lot of handpassed goals too ! Chokers !

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 940 - 24/05/2021 05:44:00    2344804

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Replying To jacktheDub:  "Wow people just dont have a clue rules like that play into blanket defences who will know when a team passes the half way line cant go back and will just smother the attacking team..the blanket is the curse on the game keeping the ball is what makes the blanket nonsense"
I'm afraid Dublin's keep ball is worse than blanket defence tactics. I know most Dublin fans don't see it but try to see it through other fans eyes sometimes. It kills intensity and is extremely frustrating to watch. Dublin are far from my favourite team to watch these days. The chances of seeing a decent match is very slim.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2572 - 24/05/2021 09:24:40    2344823

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Replying To jacktheDub:  "Wow people just dont have a clue rules like that play into blanket defences who will know when a team passes the half way line cant go back and will just smother the attacking team..the blanket is the curse on the game keeping the ball is what makes the blanket nonsense"
Disagree with that analysis- if Dublin moved the ball quickly enough they would have beaten the blanket defence. The ball moves faster than any man so why did Dublin not play ball in before Kerry had a chance to get the men back.

I would also ask the same of Kerry- umpteen times yesterday I counted the amount of times Dublin had 12 or 13 men behind their own 45 yard line- why Did Kerry not play in quick ball before Dublin had a chance to filter back all their men to set up their own blanket??

And as for the keep ball possession game which Dublin have down to a fine art, Kerry can also do it btw but Dublin have it perfected- reminds me of soccer teams running the ball to a corner to wind down the clock- it is atrocious stuff and teams that do it should be called out on it.

Yesterday Dublin did it near the end and eventually got a free, maybe two........instead of going for goal they actually took another short free and carried on with the keep ball game. It was so boring and stomach churning to watch. So I was glad that it backfired on them.

the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 24/05/2021 09:34:22    2344828

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Replying To DUBJOHN:  "#6inarow , at least these Dublin players didn't bottle it like your lot going for the 5 in a row in '82 who incidentally were like a basketball team in their glory years, i remember them scoring an awful lot of handpassed goals too ! Chokers !"
Different times, we were an amateur gaelic football team who played most of our games on the road.

Question for were the great Kilkenny team of the 00s "bottlers" as you call it?

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 24/05/2021 10:09:35    2344847

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Replying To DUBJOHN:  "#6inarow , at least these Dublin players didn't bottle it like your lot going for the 5 in a row in '82 who incidentally were like a basketball team in their glory years, i remember them scoring an awful lot of handpassed goals too ! Chokers !"
I wouldn't mind being a choker with 8 All-Ireland winners medals in my back pocket.

Championship back then was a lot tougher than it is now as well. Straight knockout, and Kerry, Cork, Roscommon, Mayo, Tyrone, Dublin, Meath and Offaly all had brilliant teams - in some cases, the best they'd ever have.

Dublin's main rivals over the past decade - Kerry, Mayo and Donegal - are nowhere near as good as the Mayo, Tyrone, Armagh, Cork, Galway, Meath and Kerry teams of the 00's. I doubt if Dublin would have 6 in a row if they were up against that lot - maybe 3 or 4.

Fenton and co would have a lot more bruises to show for it that's for sure. Francie Bellew or one of the McMahons would almost literally eat Con O'Callaghan and I'd genuinely like to see how Kilkenny would cope with peak Anthony Lynch, Carl Lacey or Keith Higgins for company. Different times.

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 83 - 24/05/2021 10:21:35    2344851

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Replying To kingdom_come:  "I wouldn't mind being a choker with 8 All-Ireland winners medals in my back pocket.

Championship back then was a lot tougher than it is now as well. Straight knockout, and Kerry, Cork, Roscommon, Mayo, Tyrone, Dublin, Meath and Offaly all had brilliant teams - in some cases, the best they'd ever have.

Dublin's main rivals over the past decade - Kerry, Mayo and Donegal - are nowhere near as good as the Mayo, Tyrone, Armagh, Cork, Galway, Meath and Kerry teams of the 00's. I doubt if Dublin would have 6 in a row if they were up against that lot - maybe 3 or 4.

Fenton and co would have a lot more bruises to show for it that's for sure. Francie Bellew or one of the McMahons would almost literally eat Con O'Callaghan and I'd genuinely like to see how Kilkenny would cope with peak Anthony Lynch, Carl Lacey or Keith Higgins for company. Different times."
Agree with that- definitely tougher championships back then and players were much tougher also. Now they are molly coddled and wrapped in cotton wool- if you watch back some old videos what passed for tackling back then would nearly now merit a six month ban

the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 24/05/2021 10:32:52    2344856

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Replying To DUBJOHN:  "#6inarow , at least these Dublin players didn't bottle it like your lot going for the 5 in a row in '82 who incidentally were like a basketball team in their glory years, i remember them scoring an awful lot of handpassed goals too ! Chokers !"
Doesn't say much for the Dublin team of that era so does it?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1651 - 24/05/2021 10:36:44    2344857

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Different times, we were an amateur gaelic football team who played most of our games on the road.

Question for were the great Kilkenny team of the 00s "bottlers" as you call it?"
By many Dublin posters logic those All Irelands shouldn't be counted either as Kilkenny play in a football province...

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1651 - 24/05/2021 10:37:58    2344858

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Replying To kingdom_come:  "I'm a firm believer in evolving tactics in GAA. I'm probably one of the few Kerrymen who didn't agree with PSpillane and the puke football nonsense. For too long we had 6 backs v 6 forwards, catch and kick and goalkeepers driving the ball down the middle into 50:50 situations.

In the drawn final in 2019, I wished Kerry had enough street smarts to kill the game like Dublin would have. As far back as 2005 when Kerry lost to Tyrone, I wished Kerry would just slow it down and try to keep possession. Dublin have turned this into possibly their most important weapon to mentally dominate in games. Whenever an opponent gets a bit of momentum, Dublin will kill it by funneling 10 or 11 players back, claiming possession and then keeping the ball for 2 or 3 minutes. Even if Dublin don't score, that period of control replaces the opposition drive and momentum with frustration. Doesn't matter who they are playing or what the score is, they'll take a couple of minutes and show the opposition who the daddy is.

I don't like the idea of changing rules based on tactics employed by one successful team - Dublin have already been penalised through the kick-out changes - but I'm starting to wonder if something might need to be done about the time Dublin kill on these possessions, not necessarily how they do it. Call it smart decision-making, clever ball retention, probing for weakness - it is all of these and fair play to Dublin for having players to do it, but it really is frustrating.

One of the lads on Newstalk once described watching Barcelona as being akin to "watching a beautiful painting dry" - at the moment, watching Dublin is a bit like that.

So, take away the mark, take away the kick out zone, keep the 50 yard line and bring me a 3 minute SHOT CLOCK"
That is a very good post and really good analysis a chara. Of course we need to throw the problem in of the blanket defense and make sure we just dont rule change around the solution to it, for me the blanket defense is the illness and probing Dublin style the symptom but also the solution. Its actually quite a difficult skill to pull off, you have to have the players. The Munster final last year - if we remember both Kerry and Cork did it too. I actually thought Kerry did it yesterday as well. Strangely i thought Dublin kicked more long ball yesterday then they usually would, i think the identified the Kerry defense weren't comfortable under the high ball, to be fair we got some joy our of it. We tried to kick over the blanket as well, we persevered with it to long though and wasted some good pocession.

Strangely as the Kerry team of the 00's got older i used to think one of their best skill sets was holding the ball and retaining pocession as they got their noses in front, i used to really admire it, they were the best of it then. It can work against you to, Kerry proved it yesterday in the second half, just like we did in he last quarter of 2011 when Kerry tried it. I find the whole tactical battles fascinating.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4517 - 24/05/2021 10:55:31    2344866

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "I'm afraid Dublin's keep ball is worse than blanket defence tactics. I know most Dublin fans don't see it but try to see it through other fans eyes sometimes. It kills intensity and is extremely frustrating to watch. Dublin are far from my favourite team to watch these days. The chances of seeing a decent match is very slim."
It won't be mentioned on RTE, I say it repeatedly it is an ugly game that Dublin play. You are on the attacking 45 and you kick it back to your own 45 because you don't have the nerve to try for a point or drop it on the square, either that or they are instructed by their many coaches not to take risks or be in any way of their own mind to take it on but shur of course this is caveman tactics now according to all the coaching gurus.
If it was an Ulster team that repeatedly did this like Dublin do you may swear RTE would be showing it as being a disaster for the game. High balls dropped into the square win games, it is a tactic that is as old as the game itself, but the coaching masters don't like it as it doesn't justify their existence.

the_creeler (Leitrim) - Posts: 119 - 24/05/2021 11:02:12    2344871

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "That defence you say? That's the only defence we have joxer, I'd say Dessie was smiling away to himself where ever he was held up, he got the handiest gig in gaelic football just go in and carry out Jim gavins basketball tactics with the athletes that have been farmed thanks to all the gaa money, in fairness the gaa are getting some return for their investment."
Honest question KB, is Jimmy McGuinness involved in the Kerry setup these days? I know he was being touted for a few roles, including Dundalk manager, and sure I haven't seen a blanket like Kerry had yesterday since the great snow fall of 1982. I figure McGuinness must be advising Keane.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4745 - 24/05/2021 11:07:24    2344873

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Replying To oneoff:  "By many Dublin posters logic those All Irelands shouldn't be counted either as Kilkenny play in a football province..."
I know sure, ah well it was nice to play them outside of Croke Park yesterday and they'll set a new record next week when they play Galway in Pearse stadium when they'll have played 3 games in a row away from home beating their previous record of 2 games away from home which they set yesterday in Thurles.

That'll make jimbo happy as he loves his records.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 24/05/2021 11:11:03    2344874

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Replying To kingdom_come:  "I'm a firm believer in evolving tactics in GAA. I'm probably one of the few Kerrymen who didn't agree with PSpillane and the puke football nonsense. For too long we had 6 backs v 6 forwards, catch and kick and goalkeepers driving the ball down the middle into 50:50 situations.

In the drawn final in 2019, I wished Kerry had enough street smarts to kill the game like Dublin would have. As far back as 2005 when Kerry lost to Tyrone, I wished Kerry would just slow it down and try to keep possession. Dublin have turned this into possibly their most important weapon to mentally dominate in games. Whenever an opponent gets a bit of momentum, Dublin will kill it by funneling 10 or 11 players back, claiming possession and then keeping the ball for 2 or 3 minutes. Even if Dublin don't score, that period of control replaces the opposition drive and momentum with frustration. Doesn't matter who they are playing or what the score is, they'll take a couple of minutes and show the opposition who the daddy is.

I don't like the idea of changing rules based on tactics employed by one successful team - Dublin have already been penalised through the kick-out changes - but I'm starting to wonder if something might need to be done about the time Dublin kill on these possessions, not necessarily how they do it. Call it smart decision-making, clever ball retention, probing for weakness - it is all of these and fair play to Dublin for having players to do it, but it really is frustrating.

One of the lads on Newstalk once described watching Barcelona as being akin to "watching a beautiful painting dry" - at the moment, watching Dublin is a bit like that.

So, take away the mark, take away the kick out zone, keep the 50 yard line and bring me a 3 minute SHOT CLOCK"
I would go with max passes rather that clock.

e.g you've got 8 passes to get a shot off. free to opposition on 9th pass

centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 360 - 24/05/2021 11:21:52    2344882

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Replying To Joxer:  "Honest question KB, is Jimmy McGuinness involved in the Kerry setup these days? I know he was being touted for a few roles, including Dundalk manager, and sure I haven't seen a blanket like Kerry had yesterday since the great snow fall of 1982. I figure McGuinness must be advising Keane."
Dublin had several blankets up yesterday too. If you can't see that you need to start watching much closer because Dublin regularly do the same so I wonder is McGuinness involved with Dublin also??

the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 24/05/2021 11:28:46    2344887

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "I know sure, ah well it was nice to play them outside of Croke Park yesterday and they'll set a new record next week when they play Galway in Pearse stadium when they'll have played 3 games in a row away from home beating their previous record of 2 games away from home which they set yesterday in Thurles.

That'll make jimbo happy as he loves his records."
Had to laugh at Eamon Fitzmaurice on the SG last night trying to show that Donegal still had a blanket defence at times,
Kerry were pulling every man back they could all day against Dublin but he wouldn't highlight that, oh sure Kerry are the purists after all, shows you too how lame the RTE pundits are he thinks it's Ulster v Leinster in the semi finals this year.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3206 - 24/05/2021 11:37:36    2344891

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