Meath Forum

Meath V Dublin

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With all respect to Colm O Rourke, see Donegal v Derry to see what a truly great coach and innovator like Jim McGuinness can do to a team. They had a plan, an intelligent plan, having identified Derry's weakness and ruthlessly carried it out as every man believed in it.

Compare that to us against Dublin where we had a decent enough defensive performance but you could tell that it would fall apart at the first breakthrough due to lack of belief in the team, in themselves and in how they were set up to play.

Personally I don't care who manages Meath. I just want to see a plan and a team that really believes in that plan and genuinely thinks they will win in executing that plan. It's a long time since I've seen that. Maybe under Mick O Dowd there was some innovation and a plan (lightning quick counter attacks and a team based on speed alone).

Maybe it's easier for Donegal as they've kept their identity and culture, unlike us due to change in demographics and population. It allows them to believe in a cult like figure like McGuinness and his savage training. I imagine it's hard to find 25 lads in modern Meath to do that. But I'd love to see a real innovator take over us. We're just going through the motions it feels like, at every level.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 21/04/2024 08:05:57    2539440

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "Having listened to a local podcast during the week, one of the contributors argued that Colm O'Rourke is really only in his first year in the job, as last year doesn't really county as it wasn't his team and he had to do a clear out, so this is really his team and year one of his tenure. Jesus wept. Just look at Donegal tonight. That's a properly coached team that fully buys into what they are doing and every single players knows their job."
Agree, but in fairness, every one of them Donegal players are footballers. Comfortable on the ball, execute the basics well, very few unforced errors. Mcguinness a great manager but he has a serious base level to start with so can focus on tactics alone. Our basic skill level is very average, 20 yard kick passing, hand passing, decision making the list could go on and on. I don't think Donegal are a relative comparison the more I think of it, but performances like sligo cork and cavan last week are.

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 938 - 21/04/2024 08:15:29    2539445

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "Agree, but in fairness, every one of them Donegal players are footballers. Comfortable on the ball, execute the basics well, very few unforced errors. Mcguinness a great manager but he has a serious base level to start with so can focus on tactics alone. Our basic skill level is very average, 20 yard kick passing, hand passing, decision making the list could go on and on. I don't think Donegal are a relative comparison the more I think of it, but performances like sligo cork and cavan last week are."
I agree, Donegal do have better players overall than Meath do at the minute, but we have some pretty decent and Athletic players, especially from midfield up, and a goalkeeper in Billy Hogan who has a big kickout out.

What we don't have, is drive or desire to attack at pace like Donegal do, and while we look OK defensively at times, one set back and it's gone out the window. Meath look like a team with no belief or commitment to what they are doing.

It is true, that the performances of Sligo vs Galway, Cavan vs Monaghan and Cork vs Kerry are far far more daming assessments of where we are at.

If Meath played Kerry or Galway tomorrow, I would expect us to be beaten comfortably without much of a fight. Let's not forget, Meath conceded 3-12 to a division 4 team only two weeks ago.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 998 - 21/04/2024 09:20:23    2539460

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Replying To Crinigan:  "With all respect to Colm O Rourke, see Donegal v Derry to see what a truly great coach and innovator like Jim McGuinness can do to a team. They had a plan, an intelligent plan, having identified Derry's weakness and ruthlessly carried it out as every man believed in it.

Compare that to us against Dublin where we had a decent enough defensive performance but you could tell that it would fall apart at the first breakthrough due to lack of belief in the team, in themselves and in how they were set up to play.

Personally I don't care who manages Meath. I just want to see a plan and a team that really believes in that plan and genuinely thinks they will win in executing that plan. It's a long time since I've seen that. Maybe under Mick O Dowd there was some innovation and a plan (lightning quick counter attacks and a team based on speed alone).

Maybe it's easier for Donegal as they've kept their identity and culture, unlike us due to change in demographics and population. It allows them to believe in a cult like figure like McGuinness and his savage training. I imagine it's hard to find 25 lads in modern Meath to do that. But I'd love to see a real innovator take over us. We're just going through the motions it feels like, at every level."
Yeah,agree totally on Jim McGuinness.He has an aura about him and tactically sound and with been involved in soccer has taking bits from that for sure.Donegal for whatever reason under Declan Bonner didn't click and it split support for him but Jim mac seems to have the majority of fans behind him from the start not like COR here which split people from the start and continues to be the case.If the Derry goalkeeper doesn't wander out the field and cause at least 2 goals would Donegal have won?I'm not so sure. Its ths way Mickey harte plays as the league game v Louth last year he done the same against us(keeper out for kickouts) but we didn't finish our chances that day.I think it was Morris who tried one that the defender just blocked otherwise it would've a goal in a empty net.So yeah well done to Donegal for seeing this weakness in Derry.On your point about not getting 25 lads to train like mad I think that's a bit unfair on the Meath lads who have given up their time for their county and I'm sure they would(have) trained as hard as what's asked of them again just my opinion.On a sidenote if you haven't read Jim McGuinness book I'd advise you to read it shows you his dedication,commitment but most of all the belief he has and installs in people around him

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 296 - 21/04/2024 09:54:35    2539472

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "Having listened to a local podcast during the week, one of the contributors argued that Colm O'Rourke is really only in his first year in the job, as last year doesn't really county as it wasn't his team and he had to do a clear out, so this is really his team and year one of his tenure. Jesus wept. Just look at Donegal tonight. That's a properly coached team that fully buys into what they are doing and every single players knows their job."
This is the narrative that will be spun to cover up the fact we have not improved at all

Ed2010 (Meath) - Posts: 109 - 21/04/2024 13:36:16    2539521

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "Agree, but in fairness, every one of them Donegal players are footballers. Comfortable on the ball, execute the basics well, very few unforced errors. Mcguinness a great manager but he has a serious base level to start with so can focus on tactics alone. Our basic skill level is very average, 20 yard kick passing, hand passing, decision making the list could go on and on. I don't think Donegal are a relative comparison the more I think of it, but performances like sligo cork and cavan last week are."
Jim Mac is a one of a kind, don' t think there is another manager who could do what he does, had the raw material to work but still lt's very impressive. Great awareness, fitness but above all their basic skills was at another level. Would he get the same committment from players outside his own county? I would imagine the training is at another level and no excuses taken. Suprised Derry caught out so often and Harte should have tightened thing's up at half time. Maybe the fact Derry went all out for league caught up with them, however, they now get a rest and yesterday will only act to spur them on. Just our luck to draw them and Dubs in same group. Little point in comparing JMac with other managers our own included, he is unique.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 21/04/2024 14:21:48    2539525

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Meath convention report Dec 2023 re .team preparation costs and increases from 2022( freely available on Google) I was prompted to check when it was so obvious that Jim Mc Guinness has set the bar higher again by undergoing development in coaching tickets and performance coaching with Celtic .Again it highlighted the value in self development as required for key stakeholders.... I checked .for Meath and could not find a figure for development .under the 9 headings listed. That did surprise me as i believe development and progress go hand in hand. ( This report is well worth reading)

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 22/04/2024 09:21:56    2539705

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Replying To nobull456:  "Meath convention report Dec 2023 re .team preparation costs and increases from 2022( freely available on Google) I was prompted to check when it was so obvious that Jim Mc Guinness has set the bar higher again by undergoing development in coaching tickets and performance coaching with Celtic .Again it highlighted the value in self development as required for key stakeholders.... I checked .for Meath and could not find a figure for development .under the 9 headings listed. That did surprise me as i believe development and progress go hand in hand. ( This report is well worth reading)"
This is nothing new for McGuinness and not necessarily to do with anything he has done since his last time involved with Donegal. The point is that he drove the team to be successful in 2012 and looks like he is driving this new team again. Must be said that Donegal were a div. 1 team for a number of years before relegation last year and good raw talent to work with too so they were already a good bit ahead of Meath when he started again. However the level of improvement he is getting in a short space of time is not what we are seeing with Meath. I don't see the management team from Meath really driving this team enough. They should be fitter/stronger at this stage and a clearly identified game plan. We are soft and management not driving players hard enough.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 594 - 22/04/2024 09:56:30    2539734

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Replying To winatallcost:  "This is nothing new for McGuinness and not necessarily to do with anything he has done since his last time involved with Donegal. The point is that he drove the team to be successful in 2012 and looks like he is driving this new team again. Must be said that Donegal were a div. 1 team for a number of years before relegation last year and good raw talent to work with too so they were already a good bit ahead of Meath when he started again. However the level of improvement he is getting in a short space of time is not what we are seeing with Meath. I don't see the management team from Meath really driving this team enough. They should be fitter/stronger at this stage and a clearly identified game plan. We are soft and management not driving players hard enough."
So if the team are underperforming then management have to act..agreed .If management cannot see the need to act ,then management are underperforming. They need to improve by developing themselves to meet the needs.That is my point precisely !! In a nutshell as far as i am concerned development is the key to further improvement and that applies particular to the management team. I dont expect Colm O Rourke to do it all himself but as manager he is the co ordinator and as such he makes sure all that needs to be done is done.If that means he brings in help as he said he would thats fine. The help is needed why wait?

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 22/04/2024 11:41:54    2539793

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This might put a stop to all this talk of "young team", "need a development plan", "will take time".
the right management/coaching team in place and you can transform a team.
I've said it from the first day COR decided not to surround himself with the right personnel.

I actually don't really care now if we take a big scalp or two in the AI series. Doesn't count for anything other than the fact that there is natural heart and talent in our current crop of players and they are being let down by a sub standard level of coaching by the current set up!
We dont need big development plans and new structures now (we do in parallel but not priority). We need a coaching ticket that can bring us to the next level straight away and start winning leagues and even a leinster so that the young lads of the future are chomping at the bit to play for Meath because they know they might win something as opposed to these young lads having an easy decision to go and play other codes because they know Meath football is a waste of their time!

JonnieG (Meath) - Posts: 246 - 22/04/2024 13:01:44    2539845

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Replying To nobull456:  "So if the team are underperforming then management have to act..agreed .If management cannot see the need to act ,then management are underperforming. They need to improve by developing themselves to meet the needs.That is my point precisely !! In a nutshell as far as i am concerned development is the key to further improvement and that applies particular to the management team. I dont expect Colm O Rourke to do it all himself but as manager he is the co ordinator and as such he makes sure all that needs to be done is done.If that means he brings in help as he said he would thats fine. The help is needed why wait?"
How do you thimk management should develop themselves? Remember this is an amature sport with lads giving up ever increasing spare time to both manage and play.
As for driving players on again not sure what that involves we have two experts involved with management team so I expect correct measures are been followed. Little point flogging the lads just for the sake of it. Jim Mac expressed his concern about the number of injuries within the Donegal panel maybe he needs to look at his training methods. Its a busy season and difficult to see his side sustaining what we saw on Saturday. We have a decent panel but still a way off from where we want to be, we need a few top class players and to date it looks like we will be waiting a while. We have three games coming up and I would be slow to judge until we see what happens.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 22/04/2024 13:12:41    2539850

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Replying To JonnieG:  "This might put a stop to all this talk of "young team", "need a development plan", "will take time".
the right management/coaching team in place and you can transform a team.
I've said it from the first day COR decided not to surround himself with the right personnel.

I actually don't really care now if we take a big scalp or two in the AI series. Doesn't count for anything other than the fact that there is natural heart and talent in our current crop of players and they are being let down by a sub standard level of coaching by the current set up!
We dont need big development plans and new structures now (we do in parallel but not priority). We need a coaching ticket that can bring us to the next level straight away and start winning leagues and even a leinster so that the young lads of the future are chomping at the bit to play for Meath because they know they might win something as opposed to these young lads having an easy decision to go and play other codes because they know Meath football is a waste of their time!"
Most counties have already abandoned County specific pages at this stage and I encourage the editor to seriously consider abandoning this page too. I find it very disappointing and disrespectful to regularly read disparaging comments about a management team that have contributed enormously to Meath GAA and continue to do so. This forum gives anonymity to users who obviously take pleasure in abusing people who are willing to take responsibility on behalf of the county they love and respect.

Royal_Rover (Meath) - Posts: 72 - 22/04/2024 14:56:44    2539887

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Replying To Royal_Rover:  "Most counties have already abandoned County specific pages at this stage and I encourage the editor to seriously consider abandoning this page too. I find it very disappointing and disrespectful to regularly read disparaging comments about a management team that have contributed enormously to Meath GAA and continue to do so. This forum gives anonymity to users who obviously take pleasure in abusing people who are willing to take responsibility on behalf of the county they love and respect."
Well said RR however thats the nature of forums, majority of posters are decent and just want what is best for team. Some just want to lay all our woes at the feet of management which is both shortsighted and show's no understanding of where Meath currently stand. Management realise when they take on the job they leave themselves open to all sorts of "hurlers on the ditch" who see all the problems but offer no solutions except change the manager and all the hidden, missmanaged talent will come to life. If that does not work on to next man and on we go.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 22/04/2024 15:33:41    2539898

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Gaa teams are now fitter than premiership teams , which is absolutely crazy because a premiership player is on average getting £100000 a week and all a gaa player is getting is abuse by a TV pundit told to pull the socks up.

This fitness thing is pushed by the fans , the team doesn't look fit , we need a new fitness coach every year . It's not a paid sport it's an amateur sport !

I don't take things to serious , if we win we win if we lose we lose and there is not much else we can do about it because there is only one team that can win at the end of the year.

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 22/04/2024 15:49:34    2539906

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Replying To Royal_Rover:  "Most counties have already abandoned County specific pages at this stage and I encourage the editor to seriously consider abandoning this page too. I find it very disappointing and disrespectful to regularly read disparaging comments about a management team that have contributed enormously to Meath GAA and continue to do so. This forum gives anonymity to users who obviously take pleasure in abusing people who are willing to take responsibility on behalf of the county they love and respect."
Firstly I would challenge you to highlight a single post on here where the management team have been "abused"

Criticised ? Yes

Judged based off results and performances on the pitch ? Yes

People are entitled to give their opinions both positively and negatively on the management and the team in general and I see no reason why they can't be critical of the set up as long as the criticism is not does not get personal or nasty and as someone who reads most of the posts on here I have yet to come across anything personal or nasty said about the management or players. As I said feel free to prove me wrong!!!

As far encouraging the editor to abandon this page because you are disappointed reading some of the posts... Cancel culture is alive and well in Meath. Here's a mad idea if you don't like reading some of the comments or posts on here ...

Don't read them.

Simple

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1012 - 22/04/2024 15:51:07    2539907

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Replying To Royal_Rover:  "Most counties have already abandoned County specific pages at this stage and I encourage the editor to seriously consider abandoning this page too. I find it very disappointing and disrespectful to regularly read disparaging comments about a management team that have contributed enormously to Meath GAA and continue to do so. This forum gives anonymity to users who obviously take pleasure in abusing people who are willing to take responsibility on behalf of the county they love and respect."
You know you are well within you're right and have the freedom not to read or contribute to this forum if it offends you! But you have numerous posts so it is a bit of a contradiction there! There are a huge amount of people at grass roots level like myself who have been contributing to the cause at club and county level for more years than Id care to remember! And all we want is to see our young lads get back to some level of success sooner rather than later.
I have been hearing the same broken story for years now about the "long term plan".
I have always said from day one that if COR just brought in one or 2 top class EXPERIENCED coaches to work with the guys there things could be different. So while I am no disrespecting or ABUSING anyone I do believe that COR has fallen short there and all it is doing is delaying the progression of this team!

JonnieG (Meath) - Posts: 246 - 22/04/2024 16:08:43    2539910

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Replying To JonnieG:  "This might put a stop to all this talk of "young team", "need a development plan", "will take time".
the right management/coaching team in place and you can transform a team.
I've said it from the first day COR decided not to surround himself with the right personnel.

I actually don't really care now if we take a big scalp or two in the AI series. Doesn't count for anything other than the fact that there is natural heart and talent in our current crop of players and they are being let down by a sub standard level of coaching by the current set up!
We dont need big development plans and new structures now (we do in parallel but not priority). We need a coaching ticket that can bring us to the next level straight away and start winning leagues and even a leinster so that the young lads of the future are chomping at the bit to play for Meath because they know they might win something as opposed to these young lads having an easy decision to go and play other codes because they know Meath football is a waste of their time!"
Meath need young lads that want to play for the Royals because they are Meath men and they've listened to the stories of great Meath teams, their beligerence, their spirit, their teamwork and no little amount of skill that brought them to success and they will be proud to fight for the jersey. They'll have the workrate and ability to deal with a lot of adversity before things start to improve. If young lads need to be motivated to play for Meath because they're doing well and they've a good chance to win something, then buy them an Xbox,
and tell them to stay at home, because they'll never succeed in any sport with an atitude like that.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7703 - 22/04/2024 16:11:16    2539911

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Replying To Royal_Rover:  "Most counties have already abandoned County specific pages at this stage and I encourage the editor to seriously consider abandoning this page too. I find it very disappointing and disrespectful to regularly read disparaging comments about a management team that have contributed enormously to Meath GAA and continue to do so. This forum gives anonymity to users who obviously take pleasure in abusing people who are willing to take responsibility on behalf of the county they love and respect."
I for one freely admit to offering constructive critisism to management team. i am carefull to avoid "abusing "anybody.Abusing the person is never justified. Furthermore moderators wil not print abuse and rightly so.. Therefore,this forum can have the capacity to be useful. Perhaps you might look again at how the word abuse does not fit in your post.Hardly necessary to define constructive critisism and its aim other than the need to remind the difference beteween being abusive and constructive.
Nevertheless,no harm in being reminded to examine ones conscience. I would be probably one of the first on here to suggest and support COR as manager.I said Colm O Rourke owes Meath football nothing.i recalled as an example where he as a player when above and beyond coming on at half time against medical advise in All ireland in 1991 to try to rescue the situation . I still applaud Colm in his attemps to bring back Meath from a very low base. I also freely admit that i see a need and continue to harp on about why Colm does not bring in suitable help as he said he would after his appointment. Thats not ABUSING him its offered in a constructive way .
If constructive critisism is discouraged then you are right close up the forum.
.

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 22/04/2024 16:19:51    2539914

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "Firstly I would challenge you to highlight a single post on here where the management team have been "abused"

Criticised ? Yes

Judged based off results and performances on the pitch ? Yes

People are entitled to give their opinions both positively and negatively on the management and the team in general and I see no reason why they can't be critical of the set up as long as the criticism is not does not get personal or nasty and as someone who reads most of the posts on here I have yet to come across anything personal or nasty said about the management or players. As I said feel free to prove me wrong!!!

As far encouraging the editor to abandon this page because you are disappointed reading some of the posts... Cancel culture is alive and well in Meath. Here's a mad idea if you don't like reading some of the comments or posts on here ...

Don't read them.

Simple"
Very well said indeed 100% support

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 22/04/2024 16:24:16    2539916

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Meath need young lads that want to play for the Royals because they are Meath men and they've listened to the stories of great Meath teams, their beligerence, their spirit, their teamwork and no little amount of skill that brought them to success and they will be proud to fight for the jersey. They'll have the workrate and ability to deal with a lot of adversity before things start to improve. If young lads need to be motivated to play for Meath because they're doing well and they've a good chance to win something, then buy them an Xbox,
and tell them to stay at home, because they'll never succeed in any sport with an atitude like that."
Meath at present seem like a very committed bunch who take pride in county jersey and I agree fully with your point that they will (are) face adversity before things start to improve. Few if any of this team have witnessed any success and past glories mean little to them, its a different game now and Meath have by and large failed to adapt to.Its all about writing their own history, are they good enough? Time will tell, but I would have no concern over their attitude or commitment.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 22/04/2024 20:51:52    2539976

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