Meath Forum

Meath Club Hurling Season 2024

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Replying To Selwyn:  "Relax there Alan Partridge. People can have opinions. Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean they're wrong"
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begining (UK) - Posts: 313 - 07/10/2024 09:17:07    2573397

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probably as open or not now as in 90s, Trim, Kilmessan and Rathmolyon all won at least 2 championships with Killyon also winning one and losing one. Killyon in 90s were never far away, Kildalkey made four semi finals in 90s but really only performed in 2 of them, after 1990 it was hard to see them as proper contenders but could upset a Trim or Kilmessan on a given day. I think in 90s the gap between the ordinary senior teams like , kildlakey, athboy, boardsmill, wolfe tones, dunderry and navan omahonys and the big guns Trim, Kilmessan, Rathmolyon and Killyon was very small, there wasnt a huge amount of hidings dished out. thats probably whats changed. the 4 big teams now, can really go to town on ordinary middle of the road senior teams.

I think we need to go for Westmeath model, senior A , 6 teams, top team straight to final as a reward for finishing top, 2nd and 3rd a pay off / semi final for other final spot.Bottom 2 teams in relegation play off, repeat in senior B, intermedate A and B too. Theres a huge amount of rubbish matches in hurling before you get to proper do or die games, that has to contribute to a bad county team. the football championship was like that for years and im convinced it had something to do with pathetic meath perfermonaces around 20 years ago, 2003-06 were some awful spinless displays.

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 790 - 07/10/2024 22:49:48    2573558

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Replying To dickie10:  "probably as open or not now as in 90s, Trim, Kilmessan and Rathmolyon all won at least 2 championships with Killyon also winning one and losing one. Killyon in 90s were never far away, Kildalkey made four semi finals in 90s but really only performed in 2 of them, after 1990 it was hard to see them as proper contenders but could upset a Trim or Kilmessan on a given day. I think in 90s the gap between the ordinary senior teams like , kildlakey, athboy, boardsmill, wolfe tones, dunderry and navan omahonys and the big guns Trim, Kilmessan, Rathmolyon and Killyon was very small, there wasnt a huge amount of hidings dished out. thats probably whats changed. the 4 big teams now, can really go to town on ordinary middle of the road senior teams.

I think we need to go for Westmeath model, senior A , 6 teams, top team straight to final as a reward for finishing top, 2nd and 3rd a pay off / semi final for other final spot.Bottom 2 teams in relegation play off, repeat in senior B, intermedate A and B too. Theres a huge amount of rubbish matches in hurling before you get to proper do or die games, that has to contribute to a bad county team. the football championship was like that for years and im convinced it had something to do with pathetic meath perfermonaces around 20 years ago, 2003-06 were some awful spinless displays."
This is exactly what needs to happen, only minor tweak id make is bottom team automatically relegated.
Waste of time this year until knockouts and it is actually making the standard worse for teams. Ratoath and Kiltale drew the first game and then both had a handy run through the group trying to hammer every team for scores. Kiltale went out and got hammered themselves then and while Ratoath won the last day they were less than convincing. On the otherside, Trim got a win the first round and then coasted through in the knowledge even losing to Kilmessan they were already going to top the group. Trim to their credit look good but difficult to say given how average Kildalkey were in the semi.
We are in for another year in 2025 of 5 rounds of bad hurling before getting to average hurling games in knockout.
Not the county boards fault, this is the clubs, who most of which must enjoy getting hammered year on year.
For the final, Trim are odds on for good reason. Ratoath look average and they won't be given the same space as Kilmessan gave to their main. if Trim get out they could give the club a good go but depends on who the KK inter champions are.

off_the_wall (Roscommon) - Posts: 72 - 08/10/2024 12:50:42    2573650

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i fancied Ratoath to win it from the start so i wont change horse mid stream now. It would be very tough on Ratoath to lose finals in 21,22,23 and 24. I think it happened Dunboyne in 1960s and they went into freefall until late 1990s. Pity the minor final isnt before the senior whoever wins it will be end of a famine, O'Mahonys 2003 i think and Kildalkey 1948

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 790 - 08/10/2024 23:27:15    2573802

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Best team won on on the day. Trim can have their grievances about the penalty/free which was a strange decision but the player that got their goal shouldn't have been on the pitch. These things always even themselves out in the end.

How many of both teams will commit to the county hurling panel.

Rickoshay (Meath) - Posts: 33 - 14/10/2024 08:23:39    2574699

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Replying To off_the_wall:  "This is exactly what needs to happen, only minor tweak id make is bottom team automatically relegated.
Waste of time this year until knockouts and it is actually making the standard worse for teams. Ratoath and Kiltale drew the first game and then both had a handy run through the group trying to hammer every team for scores. Kiltale went out and got hammered themselves then and while Ratoath won the last day they were less than convincing. On the otherside, Trim got a win the first round and then coasted through in the knowledge even losing to Kilmessan they were already going to top the group. Trim to their credit look good but difficult to say given how average Kildalkey were in the semi.
We are in for another year in 2025 of 5 rounds of bad hurling before getting to average hurling games in knockout.
Not the county boards fault, this is the clubs, who most of which must enjoy getting hammered year on year.
For the final, Trim are odds on for good reason. Ratoath look average and they won't be given the same space as Kilmessan gave to their main. if Trim get out they could give the club a good go but depends on who the KK inter champions are."
Talking about Trim having a good run in Leinster was a bit presumptuous.

Blueyellowandwhite (Meath) - Posts: 20 - 14/10/2024 09:45:33    2574715

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Replying To Rickoshay:  "Best team won on on the day. Trim can have their grievances about the penalty/free which was a strange decision but the player that got their goal shouldn't have been on the pitch. These things always even themselves out in the end.

How many of both teams will commit to the county hurling panel."
Agreed, as a Ratoath man I can easily say it definitely looked to be a penalty at the end, but as another poster said, the Trim goal scorer shouldn't have been on the pitch and Ratoath also had what looked like a stone wall penalty in the first half when Gav McGowan was hauled tot he ground. Overall the ref was fair (maybe not great but he wasn't biased in any way) and the better team on the day won. It was an excellent game, highly entertaining between two brilliant teams and hopefully now Ratoath can do well enough in Leinster

ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 582 - 14/10/2024 10:56:13    2574744

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Replying To ratlag:  "Agreed, as a Ratoath man I can easily say it definitely looked to be a penalty at the end, but as another poster said, the Trim goal scorer shouldn't have been on the pitch and Ratoath also had what looked like a stone wall penalty in the first half when Gav McGowan was hauled tot he ground. Overall the ref was fair (maybe not great but he wasn't biased in any way) and the better team on the day won. It was an excellent game, highly entertaining between two brilliant teams and hopefully now Ratoath can do well enough in Leinster"
I've seen footage of it and, to me, it's still not 100% clear. Toher seems to leap into the box after the initial foul which makes it seem like the foul occurred further inside the box than it did. Still very difficult to tell whether it happened on the line or outside. Referee used his umpires, as he should, and made the final decision based on their view of the incident.

Well done to the lads! Great to finally get the elusive hurling championship win. Up against Bray Emmets (who beat Trim in the Leinster final a few years ago).

Unfortunately I couldn't get to the game itself so had to make do with LMFM commentary. They made it sound like the world had ended when the final whistle went. The first statement uttered was "Trim have lost" and it took them ages to even acknowledge that Ratoath were champions. Even during the game, the difference in reaction to Trim's first goal and Ratoath's second goal was stark.

Ratoath Royal (Meath) - Posts: 1374 - 14/10/2024 12:13:17    2574773

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Replying To Ratoath Royal:  "I've seen footage of it and, to me, it's still not 100% clear. Toher seems to leap into the box after the initial foul which makes it seem like the foul occurred further inside the box than it did. Still very difficult to tell whether it happened on the line or outside. Referee used his umpires, as he should, and made the final decision based on their view of the incident.

Well done to the lads! Great to finally get the elusive hurling championship win. Up against Bray Emmets (who beat Trim in the Leinster final a few years ago).

Unfortunately I couldn't get to the game itself so had to make do with LMFM commentary. They made it sound like the world had ended when the final whistle went. The first statement uttered was "Trim have lost" and it took them ages to even acknowledge that Ratoath were champions. Even during the game, the difference in reaction to Trim's first goal and Ratoath's second goal was stark."
There were a few slightly controversial calls during the game. I thought the challenge on Colm O'Riordan merited a free out and a yellow card yet the Ref gave a throw in. O'Riordan went off shortly after. I don't believe there was any intent on the Trim players part - but it was a badly timed challenge and certainly not shoulder to shoulder - but not sure that the ref had a great view of it to be fair.
Well done to Ratoath delighted for them and the Ha men!

Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 515 - 14/10/2024 12:56:41    2574785

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Replying To Royalblufill:  "There were a few slightly controversial calls during the game. I thought the challenge on Colm O'Riordan merited a free out and a yellow card yet the Ref gave a throw in. O'Riordan went off shortly after. I don't believe there was any intent on the Trim players part - but it was a badly timed challenge and certainly not shoulder to shoulder - but not sure that the ref had a great view of it to be fair.
Well done to Ratoath delighted for them and the Ha men!"
You're right, I would agree with this as I thought the same myself. There were a few iffy calls given to both teams but as I said the ref was not biased in anyway which makes it an even playing field for both teams which is all anyone can sk for

ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 582 - 14/10/2024 13:06:49    2574788

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Replying To Ratoath Royal:  "I've seen footage of it and, to me, it's still not 100% clear. Toher seems to leap into the box after the initial foul which makes it seem like the foul occurred further inside the box than it did. Still very difficult to tell whether it happened on the line or outside. Referee used his umpires, as he should, and made the final decision based on their view of the incident.

Well done to the lads! Great to finally get the elusive hurling championship win. Up against Bray Emmets (who beat Trim in the Leinster final a few years ago).

Unfortunately I couldn't get to the game itself so had to make do with LMFM commentary. They made it sound like the world had ended when the final whistle went. The first statement uttered was "Trim have lost" and it took them ages to even acknowledge that Ratoath were champions. Even during the game, the difference in reaction to Trim's first goal and Ratoath's second goal was stark."
Yea I think the foul begins just outside and it carries on into the area. The Ratoath man has an arm over the Trim man's shoulder and that contact is made outside the area. Umpire in the best position to call it. the ref was poor throughout for both sides, but maybe we should say well done on this call. He acknowledged perhaps the umpire had a better view and changed his mind

Tinchy1 (Meath) - Posts: 66 - 14/10/2024 13:48:53    2574799

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Like most people, I couldn't see the penalty claim very clearly and the umpires and ref couldn't have had a great view either, with the amount of players around the sliothar.

However, the linesman on the dugout side seems to have seen it clearly and did chat with the ref. I guess if you have a track record of pulling people down looking for dodgy frees, then at some stage the chickens will come home to roost. If it was a professional foul, and that mitigated to a free from a penalty, shouldn't it have been a free out? It would take a very courageous ref to make that call.

Anyway, how Trim finished the game with a full 15 is baffling. Ratoath goalkeeper taken out of the game and not even a free, never mind a card.

I'm not sure if Ratoath reached the levels of the pre-Covid semi-final yesterday, but they all hurled for their lives and fully deserve this.

Special mention for the unsung McGowan, Ben, who is so much underrated in football and hurling. His tussle with Murray in the first half was very significant and very effective.

Well done Ratoath, instead of the dreaded 4 in a row defeats we now have the one in a row successes. Does it make for the football? That's for another day…

rathgah (Meath) - Posts: 5 - 14/10/2024 14:01:42    2574802

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From a ratoath point of view justice was done after the mistake the ref made last year sending one of ratoaths best players off so early in the game.
They were the better team yesterday yet somehow nearly managed to throw it away.
The two best teams in the county and have been the last few years.

hurlit (Meath) - Posts: 425 - 14/10/2024 14:02:50    2574803

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Replying To hurlit:  "From a ratoath point of view justice was done after the mistake the ref made last year sending one of ratoaths best players off so early in the game.
They were the better team yesterday yet somehow nearly managed to throw it away.
The two best teams in the county and have been the last few years."
Have to agree. Ratoath's success was long overdue.
Both themselves and Trim have so much talent. It's a pity they do not commit to the county team due to football and other reasons. Both teams are very young I can see them dominating for the next 5 years.

Gaelic_Games (Meath) - Posts: 21 - 14/10/2024 15:26:54    2574841

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Replying To hurlit:  "From a ratoath point of view justice was done after the mistake the ref made last year sending one of ratoaths best players off so early in the game.
They were the better team yesterday yet somehow nearly managed to throw it away.
The two best teams in the county and have been the last few years."
I think Kitale and Kildalkey will argue with that. If you look at the winners of the championship over the last 10 years I'm sure you will only see 3 names there. Strange to say Ratoath have been a top 2 team over the last few years with no silverware to their name before now.
Kitale and Kildalkey have been down a number of players this year, Ratoath and Trim have had more or less everyone (within reason) and that's the difference.

Tobefair80 (Meath) - Posts: 74 - 14/10/2024 16:36:11    2574874

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Great final yesterday in the senior, not so much in the intermediate. Terrible standard and i hope for Navan's sake that the structure is changed and they don't have to face any of the top 3 teams.

Ratoath won every battle yesterday and were a 7-8 point better team but nerves started to show towards the end. Trims 3-4 big players were not themselves yesterday (Murray aside)

Trim can have absolutely no complaints about the result or the ref who i thought was quite good, what do people want from a ref? frees for every little tussle?? That's a major part of why hurling is so poor in Meath. Ask any one who has played in Leinster over the last few years and they are wondering why they aren't getting the same frees we get in Meath.. Because they aren't frees!!
My only gripe with the ref yesterday was that the trim goal scorer was on the field to score the goal, he should have been sent off well before that. Ref made a mistake there and any other ref in the county sends him off for that. He was correct with the penalty decision as screenshots have since proven.
Well done Ratoath and best of luck in Leinster

Tobefair80 (Meath) - Posts: 74 - 14/10/2024 16:51:39    2574882

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Replying To Ratoath Royal:  "I've seen footage of it and, to me, it's still not 100% clear. Toher seems to leap into the box after the initial foul which makes it seem like the foul occurred further inside the box than it did. Still very difficult to tell whether it happened on the line or outside. Referee used his umpires, as he should, and made the final decision based on their view of the incident.

Well done to the lads! Great to finally get the elusive hurling championship win. Up against Bray Emmets (who beat Trim in the Leinster final a few years ago).

Unfortunately I couldn't get to the game itself so had to make do with LMFM commentary. They made it sound like the world had ended when the final whistle went. The first statement uttered was "Trim have lost" and it took them ages to even acknowledge that Ratoath were champions. Even during the game, the difference in reaction to Trim's first goal and Ratoath's second goal was stark."
The ref let a lot of things go for both sides and yes Ratoath had a certain penalty denied to them at the end of the first half, even the Kildalkey player doing co-commentary on Clubber acknowledged that. A great day for Ratoath and richly deserved, wonderful to see players like the McGowans, McGill and McMahon see their dedication and commitment rewarded with senior medals in both codes, Ratoaths dual players have all put so much in over recent years with both teams being at the business end in both codes practically every year. In relation to LMFM I have stopped listening to their commentary as you would not know what's happening in a game and yes I heard they were slow to acknowledge Ratoath actually won yesterday

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3744 - 14/10/2024 17:22:13    2574892

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Replying To Tobefair80:  "I think Kitale and Kildalkey will argue with that. If you look at the winners of the championship over the last 10 years I'm sure you will only see 3 names there. Strange to say Ratoath have been a top 2 team over the last few years with no silverware to their name before now.
Kitale and Kildalkey have been down a number of players this year, Ratoath and Trim have had more or less everyone (within reason) and that's the difference."
I think without doubt, there are 4 to 5 teams who could win the championship. Everything has to align for any of these teams to win. There are many variables which influence outcomes, including injuries, players other commitments, the competition draw, venues where matches are played, the date and timing of matches, the referee assigned, the linesman, the umpires and last of all LUCK.

If you are involved in hurling, you will recognise these factors. Im sure you can think of a match, where one or more of these variables has influenced a result and final placing in groups.The top teams are motivated, well trained and skilful. They all share these. Next year Ratoath could easily win again, but so could Trim, Kiltale, Kildalkey or Kilmessan. Kildalkey, Kilmessan and Trim all finished on the same points at group stage.

I can guarantee each of their backroom team can identify something which could have changed how their group finished. Maybe a goal that was ruled out for square ball, etc etc. I do believe that the officials need to be accountable for their decisions. Why are some refs allowing for free fests, while others allow carnage on the pitch and think its their duty to "let it go"? I know ita a tough gig, but the officials should not be what we are talking about after matches.
I personally would advocate for higher expenses, €80 for refs, €20 for linesman. With that, publish records of amount of frees and yellow/red cards in each game. Show GPS records of referees. A couple of referees dont even venture past the 65 lines. This just isn't good enough. CB could easily keep an audit. Lastly, there are a lot of good refs out there. They are human and make mistakes, but, should not be afraid of appraisal. It's about improving quality.

One thing for sure about the 5 top teams, they will all be back next year and even hungrier.

Blueyellowandwhite (Meath) - Posts: 20 - 15/10/2024 12:37:44    2575037

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I had tipped Trim based on the semis and got it wrong. Poster above is right in that there is not a massive gap between 4-5 teams compared to other years and all comes down to player availbility and injuries at crucial parts of the season. Ratoath and Trim had their share but dealt with them. Kildalkey also not the force of prior year, doenst mean they are gone away.
Ratoath fully deserved the win on the day and played the better hurling. Trim will be asking questions of their main players and overall performance, also saw the interview with manager where one of the players is the trainer, odd in this day and age for such a big club.
For Ratoath, it is testament to work done in the club and not favoritism put to football even with all of the success. A lot of dual players that give time to both and allowed to do so and Ratoath have gotten rewards from it (this is top down managment, not allowing external managers drive their selfish agenda). Few other big towns could learn from it and that it doesn't have to be one or the other when you have the population. Meath needs strong hurling clubs in Navan, Kells, Ashbourne, Dunboyne, Dunshauglin/Drumree. All of those are intermediate and some closer to Junior.

off_the_wall (Roscommon) - Posts: 72 - 15/10/2024 13:22:34    2575054

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Replying To off_the_wall:  "I had tipped Trim based on the semis and got it wrong. Poster above is right in that there is not a massive gap between 4-5 teams compared to other years and all comes down to player availbility and injuries at crucial parts of the season. Ratoath and Trim had their share but dealt with them. Kildalkey also not the force of prior year, doenst mean they are gone away.
Ratoath fully deserved the win on the day and played the better hurling. Trim will be asking questions of their main players and overall performance, also saw the interview with manager where one of the players is the trainer, odd in this day and age for such a big club.
For Ratoath, it is testament to work done in the club and not favoritism put to football even with all of the success. A lot of dual players that give time to both and allowed to do so and Ratoath have gotten rewards from it (this is top down managment, not allowing external managers drive their selfish agenda). Few other big towns could learn from it and that it doesn't have to be one or the other when you have the population. Meath needs strong hurling clubs in Navan, Kells, Ashbourne, Dunboyne, Dunshauglin/Drumree. All of those are intermediate and some closer to Junior."
Yeah you're spot on with the last few lines.

It's the answer to the other topic about how to make Meath inter-county stronger - we need the bigger towns to be producing more than they are, even the dual clubs. Ratoath obviously winning the SHC and consistently in the knockout stage Navan have been doing well underage and got promoted to senior so that's a great start.

Ashbourne have had some great teams coming up through the underage competitions as well so they're not far off turning into a force if they start to actually allow hurling to flourish instead of focusing on the football side as they have in the past. They've a real hurling man in charge in O Mealoid so that's a massive benefit too

On the flip side, Dunboyne. A strong, strong dual club not too long ago. Suddenly something changed this year and it doesn't take a genius to figure out what when you look at the team selections. Two relegations (one of which, the IHC, came from giving walkovers.)

RR (Meath) - Posts: 165 - 15/10/2024 14:38:46    2575076

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