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Replying To southmeathgael: "A fair bit of waffle there in fairness" A bit? Your being way to kind.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2151 - 26/02/2024 13:56:00
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Replying To bdbuddah: "A lot of the problem you mentioned predate COR, free taking issues/ kickout strategies/ lack of scoring forwards have been talked about as issues in many of the years before the current management came in and were complained about on this forum.
If you are only complaining of these issues only since COR came in you are not being consistent.
Another basic that was complained about on this forum before COR came in was that Andy selected all small forwards so we had no ball winners.
Looking at us being mid table in division 2 (typical position for us in last 15 years) and the points in above paragraph shows that, for me, criticism of our league performance this year up to this point has been over the top." I did complain about them previously. But as has been said this is Colm's team. Therefore it's his problem, he has had 2 years now to sort it out. Kick outs were actually sorted under Andy in his last year. But Colm decided to change the gk. Now we actually have a better gk than either andys or Colm's sitting in a dugout. As I recall you complained plenty about these issues under previous set ups. But now seem quite happy with them ? And in fairness to both previous and current managers they actually somewhat worked out the frees between Morris (injured) and hogan (not in 26). Yet when people complained about Harry taking the frees everyone found a problem with it. Brennan took 2 yesterday (scoring 1) which I think shows the importance of gk taking them. I was all for them previous and still am. I just happen to think that our 16 should be our 1. As for midfield? Again I think it was mostly sorted in last year under previous with jones and McGowan. Now we look shakier than ever. But to finish this is Colm's team so it's his problem and he's in year 2.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/02/2024 14:03:23
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Replying To seadog54: "A bit? Your being way to kind." Careful now sea dog… you'll be accused of being one of my "multiple" accounts
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 26/02/2024 14:07:25
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Replying To 49erroyal: "This post is literally the definition of the OTT comments that bdbuddah was talking about. it's almost like a parody.
I;ve great time for RoyalDunne and his posts, as he is one of those that genuinely cares so I don't want to be critical of anyone on here.
Some don;t like colm or think we should have a Malachy O'Rourke or Jim Gavin over us. But Colm runs the show and it've very harsh to be critical of him when things are going poorly and then keep at it again and again when we are winning games.
We have three games left and probably expect one win from them maybe two if we really do well but it will be a slog." I don't see it as criticism of him personally. He just isn't tuned into modern football, my criticism is more aimed at cb. We need a top level coach. We can say young team blah blah as much as we like. But we not even the youngest team in div 2 that is Fermanagh , yea they gonna make mistakes. But a well drilled well coached set up will make less mistakes, for me we need a top level coach. We had eivers an all ire winning coach who for whatever reason left and is now coaching Donegal and mcguinness right hand man. That was a shocking loss. Look I'm happy we winning while playing badly. But again I will say that this bunch of players is the best we have had in over a decade. I do have to pay special respect to the team who got us to super 8s and div 1, in my view they punched up.
So all I offer is constructive criticism and feedback, I can't bury my head in the sand when a slight few twerks could have us in top 8 in country. Not winning Leinster or all Ireland. But as good as Galway's Roscommon, Armagh and even Donegal. We are nowhere near Derry kerry or Dublin (the top 3 in that order in my book ).
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/02/2024 14:12:51
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Replying To southmeathgael: "A fair bit of waffle there in fairness" What is inaccurate?
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/02/2024 14:13:14
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Replying To hyperache: "All in all, the quality was poor yesterday and it was two teams that are miles below where they should be in terms of performance and quality.
Thought out forwards really struggled, not that either are world beaters - but we missed the likes of Aaron Lynch, Jordan Morris and that general type of finisher inside. A lot of wasted possession and no real output.
We failed to score form play from the 12th min to the 45th minute of the game, and out next score from play came around the 62th minute. That's not good enough, especially playing with the wind. So an awful lot to work on
But that been said, we ground out a win again, a couple of decent performers and realistically speaking we are where we should be.
We are clearly not at that Donegal or Armagh level, although you'd like us to be somewhat competitive considering what Louth did against Armagh, and Cavan were unlucky not to beat Donegal - but we're 4th, probably safe at this stage with a game against Cavan this weekend which is going to be a good measure as to where we are at." Be careful some will say you waffling or criticising for no need.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/02/2024 14:14:09
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If we could beat Cavan it would show real progress for me.
I say this based on the fact that we have for years really struggled against Ulster teams.
I have only really seen Cavan's results rather than the matches themselves.
Do Cavan play a typical defensive Ulster style?. Meath for years really struggle against this type of style.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 26/02/2024 14:18:17
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Replying To hyperache: "All in all, the quality was poor yesterday and it was two teams that are miles below where they should be in terms of performance and quality.
Thought out forwards really struggled, not that either are world beaters - but we missed the likes of Aaron Lynch, Jordan Morris and that general type of finisher inside. A lot of wasted possession and no real output.
We failed to score form play from the 12th min to the 45th minute of the game, and out next score from play came around the 62th minute. That's not good enough, especially playing with the wind. So an awful lot to work on
But that been said, we ground out a win again, a couple of decent performers and realistically speaking we are where we should be.
We are clearly not at that Donegal or Armagh level, although you'd like us to be somewhat competitive considering what Louth did against Armagh, and Cavan were unlucky not to beat Donegal - but we're 4th, probably safe at this stage with a game against Cavan this weekend which is going to be a good measure as to where we are at." Agree especially with your opening sentence in terms of performance and quality.
Nevertheless there are some green shoots emerging and deserve every help In my view Jones stays at midfield at this point.Campion stays at 6 Costello plays further outfield launch quick attacks. Walsh half forward. Adam O Neil stays at full back....Keoghan stays as Keoghan hopefully. Colm O Rourke at least completes the timeframe he mentioned initially. I see myself as one of his supporters and yet one of his critics. I do NOT see that as a contradiction at all. I would describe myself as impatient especially when recurring basics mistakes are not attended to as a priority... I notice the label OTT critisizm appearing here. The only occasion i saw that here was with an agenda driven poster who advised players NOT to listen to advise of COR. The positive side of that of course was that he drew zero support for this advise. Again this can serve as a usefull forum for all for learning !
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1228 - 26/02/2024 14:27:28
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For a team shorn of a player from each line from the end of last season and most of them being central players too, I think Colm! Trevor et all deserve a lot of credit for how they're doing so far this season. We're missing Ryan, Harnan, Gray, James McEntee and Jordan Morris from the starting team that beat Down in the Tailteann cup final. Jack Flynn has also walked away. Add in the fact Shane McEntee and Cillian O'Sullivan aren't there either and this squad has lost a huge amount of experience too. Apart from Jones and Keoghan most of the squad is under 24 I believe.
There's still issues that need to be worked on and these are Colm's issues and no one else's. Kick outs need a good bit more work. I haven't seen Billy Hogan play but it'd be very harsh on Brennan to drop him when he does his main job extremely well and kicked two scores yesterday. Free taking, Colm has Trevor to his right hand side, he taught Cian Ward and Brian Clarke two of the best in Meath over the last 20 years. Could they not have 1 of them involved. Leaving lockable frees on the field is unacceptable.
I love the talk from some about Eivers being a saviour of some sort when he wasn't wanted by many last year. And talking about how he is now Jimmy's right hand man, do people not realise he was involved in 2012 with Jimmy too. And to point out Garrigan was the coach last season, not Eivers. Eivers was the S&C coach, and a damn good one at that. It's a pity to see him go but such is life.
Now many want a top coach and that'll solve everything…. Has it occurred to any of you that Meath is no attraction to anyone. We've been a mid division 2 team for almost 20 years, we're not an attractive proposition to anyone. Anyone not in county management are in the top end of the club game and getting well remunerated for doing so.
Also find it funny a few people mentioned Davy Burke recently and why we couldn't get him. When I suggested him before Colm got the role I was told we didn't need outsiders and that he wasn't good enough.. interesting how tunes change and those same posters think he's ready for us now.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 26/02/2024 16:17:56
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Replying To brian: "For a team shorn of a player from each line from the end of last season and most of them being central players too, I think Colm! Trevor et all deserve a lot of credit for how they're doing so far this season. We're missing Ryan, Harnan, Gray, James McEntee and Jordan Morris from the starting team that beat Down in the Tailteann cup final. Jack Flynn has also walked away. Add in the fact Shane McEntee and Cillian O'Sullivan aren't there either and this squad has lost a huge amount of experience too. Apart from Jones and Keoghan most of the squad is under 24 I believe.
There's still issues that need to be worked on and these are Colm's issues and no one else's. Kick outs need a good bit more work. I haven't seen Billy Hogan play but it'd be very harsh on Brennan to drop him when he does his main job extremely well and kicked two scores yesterday. Free taking, Colm has Trevor to his right hand side, he taught Cian Ward and Brian Clarke two of the best in Meath over the last 20 years. Could they not have 1 of them involved. Leaving lockable frees on the field is unacceptable.
I love the talk from some about Eivers being a saviour of some sort when he wasn't wanted by many last year. And talking about how he is now Jimmy's right hand man, do people not realise he was involved in 2012 with Jimmy too. And to point out Garrigan was the coach last season, not Eivers. Eivers was the S&C coach, and a damn good one at that. It's a pity to see him go but such is life.
Now many want a top coach and that'll solve everything…. Has it occurred to any of you that Meath is no attraction to anyone. We've been a mid division 2 team for almost 20 years, we're not an attractive proposition to anyone. Anyone not in county management are in the top end of the club game and getting well remunerated for doing so.
Also find it funny a few people mentioned Davy Burke recently and why we couldn't get him. When I suggested him before Colm got the role I was told we didn't need outsiders and that he wasn't good enough.. interesting how tunes change and those same posters think he's ready for us now." Very true, Colm and his backroom team deserve praise. When things go bad they get plenty of criticism but there is progress there. Some people think they are on a soccer phone in radio show where they rant and rave if Meath play poorly or don't win, shouting for a change of management.
Eivers is an excellent S&C coach, was with Jimmy McGuinness in Donegal and also with Mick O'Dowd when he was Meath manager. John Horgan has taken over the S&C and his CV of working in professional sport in Australia is off the charts. We are lucky to have him and the players talk highly of him.
A couple of years ago Sean Boylan was working with Conor Laverty and the Down U21 footballers. There was uproar here and the county board came in for huge criticism for not having him involved in Meath football instead.
If Trevor, Stephen or Barry were off coaching Kildare or Louth, the same people would be tied up in knots of fury giving out why were they not helping Meath.
Banty had one of the most impressive looking coaching tickets around when over Meath and we all know how that ended.
Look at Andy McEntee's last team (below) that lost to Clare in the 2022 Qualifiers, just 21 months ago. Only six of the 20 from that day played on Sunday against Kildare. That's some change.
Meath (v Clare 2022) - Harry Hogan; Robin Clarke, Conor McGill, Eoin Harkin; Cathal Hickey, Pádraic Harnan, Donal Keogan; Bryan Menton, Daithi McGowan; Jason Scully, Thomas O'Reilly, Jack O'Connor; Mathew Costello, Cillian O'Sullivan, Bryan McMahon. Subs: James McEntee for Hickey (24), Eamon Wallace for O'Connor (HT), Joey Wallace for Scully (HT), Jordan Morris for McMahon (59), Shane Walsh for O'Reilly (67).
Roger (Meath) - Posts: 471 - 26/02/2024 17:05:59
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The brown some people on here are talking about the team and management is hilarious but also toxic.
Brennan has hardly put a foot wrong in the first 4 league games and there's people calling for him to be dropped. Louth could have been 6 or 7 points up at half time if it wasn't for him. Now I know he was dodgy at the end of the Louth match but that's not enough to drop him. Lynch front Derry and Ryan from Kerry have had a couple of howlers leading to goals so far this year and you don't see them being dropped. Now I'm not saying Brennan is the perfect keeper but he hasn't put a foot too far wrong and I wouldn't be changing him.
Defensively we have been solid apart from the Armagh match. We still have the 3rd lowest points conceded in division 2. Adam O Neill is turning into a great full back with every game and Campion is also getting better at center back and could be an answer for Skyrne there as well.
Similarly with midfield, we have done quite well given Flynn stepped away and Gray is sick. We probably won't have either of them for the rest of the year so we will have to make do with the options we have. McGowan is a wing forward playing midfield and doing very well, McBride and Dixon are in their first year.
Upfront we are struggling for consistency but we can get scores at crucial times in the last two games to close a match out which is something we struggled before. We need to get a set inside line and 11.
We're only half way through the league so I won't judge the team yet as we're still not safe but if they keep on this path then hopefully results follow
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 355 - 26/02/2024 17:13:50
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Replying To Roger: "Very true, Colm and his backroom team deserve praise. When things go bad they get plenty of criticism but there is progress there. Some people think they are on a soccer phone in radio show where they rant and rave if Meath play poorly or don't win, shouting for a change of management.
Eivers is an excellent S&C coach, was with Jimmy McGuinness in Donegal and also with Mick O'Dowd when he was Meath manager. John Horgan has taken over the S&C and his CV of working in professional sport in Australia is off the charts. We are lucky to have him and the players talk highly of him.
A couple of years ago Sean Boylan was working with Conor Laverty and the Down U21 footballers. There was uproar here and the county board came in for huge criticism for not having him involved in Meath football instead.
If Trevor, Stephen or Barry were off coaching Kildare or Louth, the same people would be tied up in knots of fury giving out why were they not helping Meath.
Banty had one of the most impressive looking coaching tickets around when over Meath and we all know how that ended.
Look at Andy McEntee's last team (below) that lost to Clare in the 2022 Qualifiers, just 21 months ago. Only six of the 20 from that day played on Sunday against Kildare. That's some change.
Meath (v Clare 2022) - Harry Hogan; Robin Clarke, Conor McGill, Eoin Harkin; Cathal Hickey, Pádraic Harnan, Donal Keogan; Bryan Menton, Daithi McGowan; Jason Scully, Thomas O'Reilly, Jack O'Connor; Mathew Costello, Cillian O'Sullivan, Bryan McMahon. Subs: James McEntee for Hickey (24), Eamon Wallace for O'Connor (HT), Joey Wallace for Scully (HT), Jordan Morris for McMahon (59), Shane Walsh for O'Reilly (67)." Great post roger, very well said, careful though or you'll be accused of being one of my multiple accounts to too…..
Off I go now and log into another of my aliases… wonder if I'll log In as RD this time
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 26/02/2024 17:48:37
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I see Seamus lavin playing for dunboyne the weekend
Does that put him in mix for meath
Centralmeath (Meath) - Posts: 1 - 26/02/2024 17:55:46
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Replying To royaldunne: "I did complain about them previously. But as has been said this is Colm's team. Therefore it's his problem, he has had 2 years now to sort it out. Kick outs were actually sorted under Andy in his last year. But Colm decided to change the gk. Now we actually have a better gk than either andys or Colm's sitting in a dugout. As I recall you complained plenty about these issues under previous set ups. But now seem quite happy with them ? And in fairness to both previous and current managers they actually somewhat worked out the frees between Morris (injured) and hogan (not in 26). Yet when people complained about Harry taking the frees everyone found a problem with it. Brennan took 2 yesterday (scoring 1) which I think shows the importance of gk taking them. I was all for them previous and still am. I just happen to think that our 16 should be our 1. As for midfield? Again I think it was mostly sorted in last year under previous with jones and McGowan. Now we look shakier than ever. But to finish this is Colm's team so it's his problem and he's in year 2." I stood up for Andy loads of times here. I always thought overall he did well as Meath manager.
6 years is a long time to be in charge. After 2022 it was definitely time for a change.
Same as Andy it is very easy to criticise COR now. Truth is intercounty management is difficult, it's hard to get everything going right at the same time.
Mentioning common issues going wrong with Andy and COR is just to show if you are going to pick holes in CORs management you could do the same with previous management.
I don't mind people fairly criticising a manager or giving constructive criticism but I don't agree with people focusing on a few negatives as if this proves everything with the setup is/ was wrong (applies to Andy and COR).
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 26/02/2024 18:55:57
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Replying To Centralmeath: "I see Seamus lavin playing for dunboyne the weekend
Does that put him in mix for meath" Now that would be a asset
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/02/2024 19:38:19
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Thankfully some sensible heads have weighed in. I did say after the Armagh game to wait a few games to see where we're at. We're effectively guaranteed div 2 with three games to go which COR and his team deserve credit for.
Looking at the fixtures, we are fortunate that our 'winnable' ties have all fallen at home which is a huge advantage, and thankfully one we have taken advantage of so far (W2 D1).
COR is in year two. If he had the same length of time that Andy or MOD had I'd say the criticism is more warranted, but it's early days still.
Don't forget that the majority of league games are a slug fest against similar level teams and won by narrow margins. Thankfully we did so in the past two games. I'm expecting a loss to Cavan, a win v Cork and a spirited loss to Donegal who will probably be promoted by then anyway.
Let's be real here. We are operating at our level and have done ever since 2001 bar a spell in 07-09 and another brief spell in 2019. We are a middling div 2 county producing div 2 players. This is not to say COR is immune from criticism, but a bit of perspective is needed. He's performing about par so far with the potential to do better in the future. He's pretty much even admitted that in recent interviews.
On another note, to break through and stick in div 1 is becoming increasingly difficult. Div 1 teams playing regular games against each other makes those counties supremely sharp. It is shown in how Armagh and Donegal are getting on. They're walking the division and whoever comes down next year too will likely do the same.
If a Meath, Kildare or Cavan ever does breach that gap it's next to impossible to make it stick within a year. Derry are the exception to this, although I would argue they were always a div 1 side who lost their way for a few years.
Spoofer (Meath) - Posts: 48 - 26/02/2024 20:56:37
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A lot to agree with in your analysis of where we are at. I agree in particular with you when you say we are where we are since 2001. Interested to hear your take on why thats the case ,and also what you suggest as a means to move forward and improve from here..
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1228 - 26/02/2024 22:54:08
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Replying To nobull456: "A lot to agree with in your analysis of where we are at. I agree in particular with you when you say we are where we are since 2001. Interested to hear your take on why thats the case ,and also what you suggest as a means to move forward and improve from here.." I honestly think that Meath's traditional style of play with alot of direct ball kicking is just not suitable during the winter months and Meath were never as good at ball carrying at pace like other teams. People may think this is too simplistic but ball kicking and fielding is much easier in the summer and also travels a few yards further. Think this is main reason traditionally Meath keep their best for championship.
winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 511 - 27/02/2024 07:58:42
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Replying To winatallcost: "I honestly think that Meath's traditional style of play with alot of direct ball kicking is just not suitable during the winter months and Meath were never as good at ball carrying at pace like other teams. People may think this is too simplistic but ball kicking and fielding is much easier in the summer and also travels a few yards further. Think this is main reason traditionally Meath keep their best for championship." Traditionally we might have been a kicking team but I think this current team with a few exceptions is better as a running team. I don't see us getting much change when we kick into the inside line, even if we kick into 1 v 1's
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1465 - 27/02/2024 09:09:08
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Replying To nobull456: "A lot to agree with in your analysis of where we are at. I agree in particular with you when you say we are where we are since 2001. Interested to hear your take on why thats the case ,and also what you suggest as a means to move forward and improve from here.." The problems Meath have had at inter county level is maybe linked to the club game in Meath.
The senior club championship in Meath seems to be at a low standard compared to other counties based on our weak performances in Leinster club championship for many years.
I'm not saying a county should organise the club championships to suit our inter county team, the main focus of club structures should be to suit clubs and club players.
Personally I'd love Meath to adopt a Kerry model for the senior club championship, let junior and intermediate club teams combine and compete in the senior championship as a regional team (and play against senior clubs in the senior championship).
The idea that every club player would then have a chance (if good enough) to play in senior championship appeals to me and I think junior and intermediate clubs would not begrudge their players getting a chance to play senior (may also help smaller clubs with big clubs trying to poach their players).
It would be a very strong competition and playing in a higher standard senior championship would improve all the teams in it.
A knock on effect of a competition like this is that we would have better players coming onto the county panel.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 27/02/2024 09:56:54
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