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2023 Club Hurling Championship

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Replying To Gaelic_Games: "Senior A Kiltale Ratoath Kildalkey Trim Kilmessan BHall Gaels, Na Fianna Killyon Senior B Athboy Dunboyne Longwood Dunderry Kildalkey B, Navan Kilskyre/Moylagh, Ashbourne Intermediate Rathmolyan Kells Trim B, Boardsmill Wolfe Tones St Pats Dunboyne B, Drumree 2 groups of 4. 1st into semi final and 2nd 3rd quarter finals. 4th in relegation." Would that not put Kildalkey C into the intermediate latouche25 (Meath) - Posts: 540 - 26/10/2023 21:14:56 2510546 Link
Replying To pixey: "Not so sure that is deemed a success either, think that could be under review aswell, my thoughts are, the pre season cups need to be run off in pre season, there needs to be a slightly earlier start to the league with 1 week off in the middle of leagues both football and hurling, in the championship most players are finished after 5 games in football, in hurling something similar, again a week off in championship season might help here. if we go a split season like Wexford and player on a J1 or long holiday/travel break could miss entire season for his club, at least with the current way he misses maybe 2/3 games and is back for knockout/relegation. there is no easy fix unless we reduce number of games which players don't want either i imagine, but for me the Wexford model is not the solution, 3 championship games in 10 days in some cases, imagine a small rural intermediate club who gets 3 injuries in the lead up to 1st round, where players are out for 2 weeks, season over before it starts for that club. rejig needed but we need to be careful what we wish for," ah here, if you head off on a J1 all the best to you. You can't be holding up the championship for a few young lads on the beer for the summer. The Wexford model is worth looking at or a variation of it. It's very hard on lads playing both codes at the moment. No doubt hurling and football managers are trying to maximize the weeks they have their players, often throwing in football sessions during hurling weeks or vice versa, that's how you get the injuries (as mentioned above). Segregating the championships can only benefit the standard and the welfare of the players. It's also ready to implement without massive surgery to the structures. 2 groups of 4 sounds good but you're never going to get 4 clubs to volunteer to be relegated for next year. begining (UK) - Posts: 313 - 27/10/2023 12:00:36 2510612 Link
The dual aspect is now to the fore of discussions and not just in Meath where you have the split season between county and club. There is never going to be a 100% consensus but think the dual clubs should have a stronger voice at the table to decide as they are arguably providing more to the GAA in promoting both codes (I include affiliated clubs in that like Ballivor). I can only imagine how tired the Trim and Ratoath lads were this year having to go out week on week and you can't blame managers for making lads choose one over the other. Meath will be ultimately worse off as a county if current structure remains. I don't think the argument holds on J1, if a few lads decide to head off more power but you can't organise a championship around that, they understand the sacrafice. I don't think there would be too many dissenting voices in Meath hurling trialing a split season. Likelihood is Meath will be out of hurling by May so run the championship off from mid June. Footballers are guaranteed Sam Maguire football so again makes sense the football goes after starting in August. You will likely have to do without county footballers at the beginning but get them back in second half. One poster suggesting Meath is not a hurling county does not help the debate but I think there are ways and means of preparing for Leinster champ for the winners in this structure even with a break. Play the cups if you want to keep hurling only going (I'm sure clubs won't object to having to play without their footballers or pulling out if they can't field (13 aside maybe)). Cuts needed in every grade to make things more competitive. Max 8 teams in Senior A, decreases number of weekends needed for hurling and brings in line with football. Senior B then 8 teams and Intermediate 8 teams. Junior 8 teams and then whatever is left in Junior B. I don't understand why any team would be aggrieved to being regraded, they can win the championship within 12 months and prove themselves. Are Longwood, Dunboyne, Dunderry, CNG all enjoying finishing hurling after 4-5 games that much without any conceivable chance of winning a title every year just so they can call themselves senior? off_the_wall (Roscommon) - Posts: 72 - 27/10/2023 13:28:41 2510622 Link
CCC vote to keep Longwood in SHC, O'Mahonys in IHC but agree to let Stamullen come up to IHC That a bit odd to anyone else? Surely if logic applies for one grade it applies to the next. Unless NOM asked to stay down? RR (Meath) - Posts: 165 - 07/11/2023 09:27:42 2511846 Link
it does sound strange but im sure both teams must have agreed to it. pixey (Meath) - Posts: 60 - 07/11/2023 10:33:53 2511856 Link
I was told o mahonys agreed to stay in intermediate, fair play to them I say. Joe_soap1 (Meath) - Posts: 84 - 07/11/2023 11:32:04 2511886 Link
Replying To off_the_wall: "The dual aspect is now to the fore of discussions and not just in Meath where you have the split season between county and club. There is never going to be a 100% consensus but think the dual clubs should have a stronger voice at the table to decide as they are arguably providing more to the GAA in promoting both codes (I include affiliated clubs in that like Ballivor). I can only imagine how tired the Trim and Ratoath lads were this year having to go out week on week and you can't blame managers for making lads choose one over the other. Meath will be ultimately worse off as a county if current structure remains. I don't think the argument holds on J1, if a few lads decide to head off more power but you can't organise a championship around that, they understand the sacrafice. I don't think there would be too many dissenting voices in Meath hurling trialing a split season. Likelihood is Meath will be out of hurling by May so run the championship off from mid June. Footballers are guaranteed Sam Maguire football so again makes sense the football goes after starting in August. You will likely have to do without county footballers at the beginning but get them back in second half. One poster suggesting Meath is not a hurling county does not help the debate but I think there are ways and means of preparing for Leinster champ for the winners in this structure even with a break. Play the cups if you want to keep hurling only going (I'm sure clubs won't object to having to play without their footballers or pulling out if they can't field (13 aside maybe)). Cuts needed in every grade to make things more competitive. Max 8 teams in Senior A, decreases number of weekends needed for hurling and brings in line with football. Senior B then 8 teams and Intermediate 8 teams. Junior 8 teams and then whatever is left in Junior B. I don't understand why any team would be aggrieved to being regraded, they can win the championship within 12 months and prove themselves. Are Longwood, Dunboyne, Dunderry, CNG all enjoying finishing hurling after 4-5 games that much without any conceivable chance of winning a title every year just so they can call themselves senior?" i like the idea that the hurling committee have where they sent out a survey for the players to respond to, it allows the players voice their opinion's as opposed to always been the opinion of committees or managers. be interesting to see where this goes in terms of change if there is any. Change should only be made if its going to improve the game on the club scene and not for the sake of change. Been realistic whatever is decided upon wont come into effect until 2025 i assume. One thing i would hate to see is a split season in the club scene, if you are not a duel player and play hurling only your season could end in June/July and you don't puck a ball again in anger until February or March, likewise if you are football only, your season runs from July and ends possibly in September with no more games until April or May, don't think this is good for either code development. We are one of the few counties who are provided with a master schedule that is run very well. I think we are at a crossroad's with duel players, Trim, Ratoath, Don/Ash, NOM, Boardsmill, Longwood, Dunboyne, BHG, or those playing duel with different clubs, Moynalvey/Summerhill & Kiltale, Dunsany & Kilmessan, Ballivor & Kildalkey, Ballivor & Killyon, Drumree & Dunshaughlin, Kilskyre & Ballinlough and so the lists goes on. There is no solution that i believe suits all, players playing week in week out is not ideal but i feel its the better option in a not ideal scenario, players not playing any games in one code for 6 to 8 months doesn't work in my opinion as other sport's could become more attractive. Should we get a players opinion from the footballers as well and see what the thoughts are of all the players ? at least then we would know what they want as opposed to non players deciding what they feel is best. pixey (Meath) - Posts: 60 - 07/11/2023 13:14:07 2511916 Link
Replying To pixey: "i like the idea that the hurling committee have where they sent out a survey for the players to respond to, it allows the players voice their opinion's as opposed to always been the opinion of committees or managers. be interesting to see where this goes in terms of change if there is any. Change should only be made if its going to improve the game on the club scene and not for the sake of change. Been realistic whatever is decided upon wont come into effect until 2025 i assume. One thing i would hate to see is a split season in the club scene, if you are not a duel player and play hurling only your season could end in June/July and you don't puck a ball again in anger until February or March, likewise if you are football only, your season runs from July and ends possibly in September with no more games until April or May, don't think this is good for either code development. We are one of the few counties who are provided with a master schedule that is run very well. I think we are at a crossroad's with duel players, Trim, Ratoath, Don/Ash, NOM, Boardsmill, Longwood, Dunboyne, BHG, or those playing duel with different clubs, Moynalvey/Summerhill & Kiltale, Dunsany & Kilmessan, Ballivor & Kildalkey, Ballivor & Killyon, Drumree & Dunshaughlin, Kilskyre & Ballinlough and so the lists goes on. There is no solution that i believe suits all, players playing week in week out is not ideal but i feel its the better option in a not ideal scenario, players not playing any games in one code for 6 to 8 months doesn't work in my opinion as other sport's could become more attractive. Should we get a players opinion from the footballers as well and see what the thoughts are of all the players ? at least then we would know what they want as opposed to non players deciding what they feel is best." Very important that the players voices are heard and listened to. I think you'll find a lot of dual players are in favour of a split season. It is important to note that splitting the season doesn't necessarily mean that hurling is finished for the year in July. There is scope to get creative with this. You could play the championships in blocks. i.e. hurling group stages in one block, then football groups, then hurling knockouts, then football knockouts. We don't have to follow a Wexford model, lets create a Meath model. begining (UK) - Posts: 313 - 08/11/2023 10:36:15 2512043 Link
Replying To begining: "Very important that the players voices are heard and listened to. I think you'll find a lot of dual players are in favour of a split season. It is important to note that splitting the season doesn't necessarily mean that hurling is finished for the year in July. There is scope to get creative with this. You could play the championships in blocks. i.e. hurling group stages in one block, then football groups, then hurling knockouts, then football knockouts. We don't have to follow a Wexford model, lets create a Meath model." Wexford went with a split hurling/football club season as they have a huge amount of dual players. After a couple of years the feedback is that it doesn't suit the majority and they will get rid of it. In Meath, dual players are a very small minority. Regardless of this we accommodate dual players by rightly having football and hurling weeks. If we didn't, it could be fatal to hurling and everyone understands that and accepts it. The idea of having football shelved for four or six weeks, so that we look after a small number of dual players, in a football dominant county isn't a runner. The dual players would still playing every weekend regardless of the system but now you have two thirds of the club players in the county without games during peak period. Roger (Meath) - Posts: 479 - 08/11/2023 16:05:06 2512139 Link
Replying To RR: "CCC vote to keep Longwood in SHC, O'Mahonys in IHC but agree to let Stamullen come up to IHC That a bit odd to anyone else? Surely if logic applies for one grade it applies to the next. Unless NOM asked to stay down?" Possibly something due to the score difference dispute earlier. I heard Longwood felt they were safe from relegation and were surprised to end be relegated due to the Meath score difference rules and national rules being in conflict. I wonder did this feed into the decision to keep Longwood Senior? bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1402 - 09/11/2023 21:12:46 2512300 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "Possibly something due to the score difference dispute earlier. I heard Longwood felt they were safe from relegation and were surprised to end be relegated due to the Meath score difference rules and national rules being in conflict. I wonder did this feed into the decision to keep Longwood Senior?" If Navan OMahonys indicated their preference to remain in Intermediate, then there was no need for a team to be relegated. Thus, Longwood remain in Senior. Stiofan (Meath) - Posts: 67 - 10/11/2023 12:52:47 2512348 Link
Replying To Stiofan: "If Navan OMahonys indicated their preference to remain in Intermediate, then there was no need for a team to be relegated. Thus, Longwood remain in Senior." Why would Navan want to stay Intermediate? Doesn't make sense Selwyn (Meath) - Posts: 387 - 10/11/2023 18:14:46 2512404 Link
Replying To Selwyn: "Why would Navan want to stay Intermediate? Doesn't make sense" That's a question for Navan, not me. Personally, if my club didn't win the championship, I wouldn't want to be promoted. St Pats have been promoted twice, without winning a championship, in my opinion, they will struggle at Intermediate. Stiofan (Meath) - Posts: 67 - 12/11/2023 06:15:00 2512487 Link
Replying To Selwyn: "Why would Navan want to stay Intermediate? Doesn't make sense" It seems hard to believe any team would just voluntarily give up the option of playing senior. They must have had pressure put on them. I was talking to some parents on the sidelines of an underage match in Longwood and was told Longwood hurlers thought they were safe going into the last game (based on national GAA rules) and it was only after this match they realised that the score difference was calculated on all games played meaning they should have taken the last game more seriously. Based on the mess up of national and county GAA rules contradicting each other and NOM not winning Intermediate for me it seems NOM deserve to be in Intermediate far more than Longwood. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1402 - 12/11/2023 20:30:06 2512594 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "It seems hard to believe any team would just voluntarily give up the option of playing senior. They must have had pressure put on them. I was talking to some parents on the sidelines of an underage match in Longwood and was told Longwood hurlers thought they were safe going into the last game (based on national GAA rules) and it was only after this match they realised that the score difference was calculated on all games played meaning they should have taken the last game more seriously. Based on the mess up of national and county GAA rules contradicting each other and NOM not winning Intermediate for me it seems NOM deserve to be in Intermediate far more than Longwood." To be fair to NOM they seem to have accepted the decision made. However there seems to be no logic, consistency or precedent applied to how that decision was arrived at. It serms that different rules have been applied at different grades and to different clubs. Out of interest will any of Kildalkeys winning intermediate team now be restricted from playing intermediate again next year. Why wasnt a playoff even considered? The logic applied in last years junior final was applied again in junior this year but not at intermediate and the only reason that seems to have happened is to avoid the county board having to deal with objections from longwood. buachaillog (Limerick) - Posts: 40 - 13/11/2023 11:56:56 2512677 Link
Replying To Selwyn: "Why would Navan want to stay Intermediate? Doesn't make sense" Because they probably know they are currently no where near ready to compete for a Senior Championship and would be in relegation fight. At least in Intermediate they have a chance of winning something, that's what playing sports is about, If they win Intemediate at some stage I am sure they will be happy to give Senior a crack. Maestro (Meath) - Posts: 584 - 13/11/2023 12:03:53 2512678 Link
Replying To buachaillog: "To be fair to NOM they seem to have accepted the decision made. However there seems to be no logic, consistency or precedent applied to how that decision was arrived at. It serms that different rules have been applied at different grades and to different clubs. Out of interest will any of Kildalkeys winning intermediate team now be restricted from playing intermediate again next year. Why wasnt a playoff even considered? The logic applied in last years junior final was applied again in junior this year but not at intermediate and the only reason that seems to have happened is to avoid the county board having to deal with objections from longwood." I'd be very surprised if NOM weren't advised prior to the decision made, otherwise they could have rightly kicked off an objection. As one poster pointed out, given their development stage they are better off staying put and competing for intermediate. I'm sure Longwood wouldn't have minded a crack at an intermediate title either if it had materialised. Are you also suggesting that 15 players from Kildalkey wouldn't be allowed play intermediate next year and sit out a season. What is your rationale behind that? By that rationale their junior team would also have to sit out playing junior. off_the_wall (Roscommon) - Posts: 72 - 13/11/2023 16:19:41 2512779 Link
Replying To buachaillog: "To be fair to NOM they seem to have accepted the decision made. However there seems to be no logic, consistency or precedent applied to how that decision was arrived at. It serms that different rules have been applied at different grades and to different clubs. Out of interest will any of Kildalkeys winning intermediate team now be restricted from playing intermediate again next year. Why wasnt a playoff even considered? The logic applied in last years junior final was applied again in junior this year but not at intermediate and the only reason that seems to have happened is to avoid the county board having to deal with objections from longwood." Replying to "Out of interest will any of Kildalkeys winning intermediate team now be restricted from playing intermediate again next year." Not really, each year ALL clubs, as per county bye-laws are allowed regrade players. Currently clubs are permitted to regrade all players except 8 named players from the club's highest grade to the next grade in which they participate. However for 2024 I imagine that Kildalkey will have to nominate 16 players that cannot be regraded to Intermediate, all other senior clubs will only have to keep 8 players exclusively for Senior in 2024. The same will probably apply to their Intermediate team they will likewise have to name 16 that cannot play junior in 2024. Plenty of work for the County Committee's Regrading Committee. MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1080 - 13/11/2023 18:53:44 2512817 Link
Replying To MillerX: "Replying to "Out of interest will any of Kildalkeys winning intermediate team now be restricted from playing intermediate again next year." Not really, each year ALL clubs, as per county bye-laws are allowed regrade players. Currently clubs are permitted to regrade all players except 8 named players from the club's highest grade to the next grade in which they participate. However for 2024 I imagine that Kildalkey will have to nominate 16 players that cannot be regraded to Intermediate, all other senior clubs will only have to keep 8 players exclusively for Senior in 2024. The same will probably apply to their Intermediate team they will likewise have to name 16 that cannot play junior in 2024. Plenty of work for the County Committee's Regrading Committee." Teams nominate a 1st 15, senior only. A 2nd 13 Intermediate only. Nothing will change this year. Stiofan (Meath) - Posts: 67 - 15/11/2023 12:39:32 2513153 Link
Kildalkey should have to name 20 senior players next year who cannot play intermediate. And another 15 who cannot play junior. For one year only. I do think other teams will be more competitive next year. This year was a once off Gaelic_Games (Meath) - Posts: 21 - 15/11/2023 14:34:28 2513184 Link