Meath Forum

Meath V Dublin

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "Yeah this narrative of being anti COR is ridiculous. I love the man and fully accept that it will take time for us to start improving and also fully accept that he is not a miracle worker . He also can't be blame for the lack of quality in the county.

The only I am blaming him for is the absolutely rudderless disorganized displays we have seen in the past few games . As I said I fully accept it will take time but by now we should be seeing some glimpses of a game plan or set up even if the players have not perfected. We are not seeing this at all."
That's it. Me too. He was my idol in the 80s. I had my worries about him taking over at this stage having not that much experience but I threw my all behind him especially with the way he talked and more importantly the team he put behind him.
No one is expecting miracles. Just honesty of effort with a clear game plan and tactics.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/03/2023 14:29:02    2465204

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "Assuming all teams in Tailteann take it seriously I agree that Cavan would probably beat us. I would fancy us in the other games you mentioned.
TBH I find it hard to know what the impact of playing in the Tailteann would be for Meath (or any team in it). Will most teams who play in it (inc Meath) take it seriously?, will a few up sticks, maybe play a bit ball in states for the summer?. If we took it seriously we would be one of the favourites for it but I could see a few of our lads feeling almost embarrassed to be playing in it."
That's my fear too.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/03/2023 14:29:50    2465205

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I agree that RD seems to have an anti Colm O'Rourke and pro Andy McEntee bias. It feels as if criticising now is a way to show how well Andy McEntee did.
It seems a funny way to look at things as even Andy's biggest supporters (I would not write nearly as many posts as some but a lot of mine were defending Andy) had no appetite for giving Andy a 7'th year.
It's a waste of energy trying to be over critical of O'Rourke just to make Andy look good, move on.
Andy got six years, COR is only starting out. COR is new to inter county management, he is on a learning curve also, give him a chance."
Couldn't be further from the fact. I was against Andy getting 6th year. He dropped biggy too soon and the way he handled imo the best forward in county in James Conlon was an absolute disgrace. And I called him out on all the above. I will add this in no shape or form should mcentee have been considered for a 7th year. And I don't care if he wins an ulster with Antrim we should never bring him back. I can't be anymore clearer than that.
My problem with current management is that in some eyes they can do no wrong. And their loyalty to one of the greatest players ever is clouding their minds. I was so hyped up that Eamonn fitz would be the next manager, a proven winner, I would have had obric as second and a joint team of Gillespie and Fay as third choice. I feared that Colm was too old school to get with modern game and gave out about defensive teams. I didn't expect the drop off in pace, I didn't expect the whole McGill thing and I didn't expect us not to have a clear game plan. Yes it's only 6 matches but surely since December these things have been worked on. That's my problem now.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/03/2023 14:38:33    2465214

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Replying To seadog54:  "We are a few months into new management, way too early to panic. Why do you think he would be too stubborn? He has 5/6 lads with him already and is on record saying if more expertise is needed it will be added. He took over a team in decline from a manager who did not want to let go. Who thought having three members of his family on panel was for the best of Meath football! This management team are no fools, like us they see whats it front of them. Of course most have concerns, however there is no quick cure, we finally have a chance to get things right after years of let downs, we either give them time or just face into another 20 years of failure."
Sums it up nicely! Well said!

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 20/03/2023 14:41:13    2465217

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "How is it the previous managements fault for the lack of quality players available ??

Is it the previous managements fault that Menton isn't making himself available?

Is it the previous managements that Conor McGill was deemed surplus to requirements?

Is it the previous managements fault that the County has failed miserably at transferring the reasonable success we've had at minor level since 2017 up to u20 level and above?

Is it the previous managements fault that the standard of the football championships in Meath is at an all time low?

Is it the previous managements fault that the likes of Conor Nash and Cian McBride chose to pursue a career as professional athletes?

Is it the previous managements fault that the likes of Paddy O'Rouke walked away from the inter county game due to the insane demands put on the players these days ?

To somehow blame the previous management for the current managements short comings is absolutely ridiculous.

There are plenty of County teams who I would class as being worse than Meath like Louth who I don't believe have the talent we have but look twice the team we are

Why is this ? Because they are well drilled well coached well organized and every player knows their job and know the game plan and set up and the structure they are playing.

With Meath at the moment there is zero plan zero organisation zero structure it seems.

This is the current managements fault."
Can anyone as much as they'd like to disagree with this post ?

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/03/2023 14:45:21    2465221

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Replying To seadog54:  "We are a few months into new management, way too early to panic. Why do you think he would be too stubborn? He has 5/6 lads with him already and is on record saying if more expertise is needed it will be added. He took over a team in decline from a manager who did not want to let go. Who thought having three members of his family on panel was for the best of Meath football! This management team are no fools, like us they see whats it front of them. Of course most have concerns, however there is no quick cure, we finally have a chance to get things right after years of let downs, we either give them time or just face into another 20 years of failure."
And here we have the prime example of the playing the man. Btw Shane is still on panel that's 3 managers now. And we definitely need James back in it too.
Hey but we have brien Conlon there. People in glass houses. And all that

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/03/2023 14:48:30    2465224

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "How is it the previous managements fault for the lack of quality players available ??

Is it the previous managements fault that Menton isn't making himself available?

Is it the previous managements that Conor McGill was deemed surplus to requirements?

Is it the previous managements fault that the County has failed miserably at transferring the reasonable success we've had at minor level since 2017 up to u20 level and above?

Is it the previous managements fault that the standard of the football championships in Meath is at an all time low?

Is it the previous managements fault that the likes of Conor Nash and Cian McBride chose to pursue a career as professional athletes?

Is it the previous managements fault that the likes of Paddy O'Rouke walked away from the inter county game due to the insane demands put on the players these days ?

To somehow blame the previous management for the current managements short comings is absolutely ridiculous.

There are plenty of County teams who I would class as being worse than Meath like Louth who I don't believe have the talent we have but look twice the team we are

Why is this ? Because they are well drilled well coached well organized and every player knows their job and know the game plan and set up and the structure they are playing.

With Meath at the moment there is zero plan zero organisation zero structure it seems.

This is the current managements fault."
I will give you an example for you to think about. Would you agree or disagree that Dessie Farrell won an All-Ireland in his first year largely as a result of the squad he inherited. I guess he chose to make some very small changes which was his decision but why would he change? So I guess Jim Gavin could take a certain amount of credit for the last and 6th Ireland in a row that Dublin won. Perhaps you disagree. Meath are essentially at exact same level as they were this time last year after a few months of competition. Disappointing yes but not surprising. The new management have basically given Andy McEntee's squad an opportunity with a few voluntary drop outs and possibly McGill excluded. Everyone knows that it can take 6 months to a years conditioning before a player can even 0lay county standard so I guess we are where we are. This unfortunately may mean we are in the phase of seeing worse before we see better. If we are where we are this time next year, I will be extremely disappointed but lets see. I agree we are in a poor state but we have been for a while and there is no magic wand.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 594 - 20/03/2023 14:55:06    2465228

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Replying To seadog54:  "We are a few months into new management, way too early to panic. Why do you think he would be too stubborn? He has 5/6 lads with him already and is on record saying if more expertise is needed it will be added. He took over a team in decline from a manager who did not want to let go. Who thought having three members of his family on panel was for the best of Meath football! This management team are no fools, like us they see whats it front of them. Of course most have concerns, however there is no quick cure, we finally have a chance to get things right after years of let downs, we either give them time or just face into another 20 years of failure."
Fair play sea dog, a good honest man who can have a genuine debate, and not resort to bluffing. I'd buy you a pint any day and enjoy a chat with you. You rightly called all season where we are and whilst you're on the glass half full side to my half empty we're always pretty well aligned, never too high or lower on where things are. Think we both said TC wouldn't be a terrible place whilst others stated we had to be in the all Ireland series, or county board wouldn't be happy. Good to see 99% of people on here can have reasonable chat without resorting to name calling

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 20/03/2023 15:15:58    2465240

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I still think there is huge goodwill for Colm and his setup but that doesn't mean we can't be worried at the same time. Pretending everything is rosy in the garden, or regurgitating what happened under Andy or Mick O'Dowd, or simply saying it will be grand in a year or two are just general statements.
The big issue is the lack of defensive structure, or even organisation at the back. We have conceded a big number of scores in every game played. Simonstown conceded an average of 24 points a game in the 2022 SFC group games. They conceded an average of 20 points a game in the 2021 SFC group games. Teams just can't win games doing that.
We have six league games, three O'Byrne Cup games and a good few challenges under our belt now. Even allowing for changing personnel, we should be seeing a system of sorts and we wouldn't expect it to be working perfectly either, but I can't see what the defensive system is.

Roger (Meath) - Posts: 479 - 20/03/2023 15:28:15    2465245

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Replying To Roger:  "I still think there is huge goodwill for Colm and his setup but that doesn't mean we can't be worried at the same time. Pretending everything is rosy in the garden, or regurgitating what happened under Andy or Mick O'Dowd, or simply saying it will be grand in a year or two are just general statements.
The big issue is the lack of defensive structure, or even organisation at the back. We have conceded a big number of scores in every game played. Simonstown conceded an average of 24 points a game in the 2022 SFC group games. They conceded an average of 20 points a game in the 2021 SFC group games. Teams just can't win games doing that.
We have six league games, three O'Byrne Cup games and a good few challenges under our belt now. Even allowing for changing personnel, we should be seeing a system of sorts and we wouldn't expect it to be working perfectly either, but I can't see what the defensive system is."
Have to agree. I wasnt at the match and watched the highlights and in just a few seconds any man with half a clue in his head would tell you we were miles off them in defence. Whatever about having talent, defensivly you either pcik up a man and follow him like a shadow or you play zone. From the games i have been at they appear to be trying to play a hybrid where within 30 yards they go man to man but outside that they let the zonal player pcik them up.

But where we seem to be struggling is when they overload or come from deep (our goal line out the pitch) and the defenders seem to not understand whose role it is to pick them up.

Whatever about previous management's, that's the current management's issue to fix and has been apparent in most games this year.

I personally woudl like to see players going man for man for the first 30mins and see how we go.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 642 - 20/03/2023 15:56:41    2465257

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Replying To winatallcost:  "I will give you an example for you to think about. Would you agree or disagree that Dessie Farrell won an All-Ireland in his first year largely as a result of the squad he inherited. I guess he chose to make some very small changes which was his decision but why would he change? So I guess Jim Gavin could take a certain amount of credit for the last and 6th Ireland in a row that Dublin won. Perhaps you disagree. Meath are essentially at exact same level as they were this time last year after a few months of competition. Disappointing yes but not surprising. The new management have basically given Andy McEntee's squad an opportunity with a few voluntary drop outs and possibly McGill excluded. Everyone knows that it can take 6 months to a years conditioning before a player can even 0lay county standard so I guess we are where we are. This unfortunately may mean we are in the phase of seeing worse before we see better. If we are where we are this time next year, I will be extremely disappointed but lets see. I agree we are in a poor state but we have been for a while and there is no magic wand."
Of course Jim Gavin can take some credit and I see the point you are making but your point on the previous management being responsible for the poor quality of player available to this management. How?

How is it their fault we have for example we have not produced a forward of the quality of Stephen Bray since... well since Stephen Bray? Nothing to do with previous management or current management. This is down to years of neglect and poor coaching structures at underage level .

I accept we are in a poor state and have been for a while but my issue is the lack of a game plan in the games. Are you telling me that 12/13 games with all the training they are doing that we should not seeing some sort of plan or structure starting to take shape?

Are you telling me that after 6 months or so back training that the team should still look like 15 individuals out on the pitch doing their own thing?

I saw a fair bit of louth the year Mickey Harte took over and probably 3 or 4 games in you started to see what they were about and trying to do. They weren't nailing it and took them a good while to start really getting it right but you could see they were working towards something after 3 or 4 games under Harte.

There is no way you can you see any of this in this meath team yet and that is worrying .

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1012 - 20/03/2023 16:13:00    2465267

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "How is it the previous managements fault for the lack of quality players available ??

Is it the previous managements fault that Menton isn't making himself available?

Is it the previous managements that Conor McGill was deemed surplus to requirements?

Is it the previous managements fault that the County has failed miserably at transferring the reasonable success we've had at minor level since 2017 up to u20 level and above?

Is it the previous managements fault that the standard of the football championships in Meath is at an all time low?

Is it the previous managements fault that the likes of Conor Nash and Cian McBride chose to pursue a career as professional athletes?

Is it the previous managements fault that the likes of Paddy O'Rouke walked away from the inter county game due to the insane demands put on the players these days ?

To somehow blame the previous management for the current managements short comings is absolutely ridiculous.

There are plenty of County teams who I would class as being worse than Meath like Louth who I don't believe have the talent we have but look twice the team we are

Why is this ? Because they are well drilled well coached well organized and every player knows their job and know the game plan and set up and the structure they are playing.

With Meath at the moment there is zero plan zero organisation zero structure it seems.

This is the current managements fault."
I think every manager in all walks of life, football included has to take a certain amount of responsibility for what they leave behind. In our case it was a man who stayed on way too long and Meath football are pàying the price. New players while showing inital promise were allowed stagnate within that system. If any manager is going to include 3 members of own family to the cost of others then they must be 3 of the very best in county. BM has done his time so not sure why you bring him up. If Andy had given McGill the wake up call he needed, then he might still be part of panel. Remainder of post is a lot of what ifs. You describe in last few lines what has been wrong with Meath football for years now, zero organisation and zero structure. Big difference is 6 years v 6 months.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 20/03/2023 16:22:56    2465273

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Replying To royaldunne:  "What pointing out clear problems in the way we set up and playing? I have not once mentioned things like the whole Shane wouldn't be in team only who is father is that seadog, Brian and nobull went on about ALL THE TIME, and there is things that could be said. I have kept it very much to football and where we are at present. It's not the league standings it's the performances have been so bad. Even the two games we won particularly v clare. We are where we are but we gonna get a lot worse unless we rectify things. I am hoping against hope that Colm can see that too. I want him to be a success. We need him to be one. And by that I don't mean winning Leinster or all Ireland by that I mean been hard to beat, loosing to dubs but at least giving them a game, loosing to Derry but at least making them work for it. Next year we likely have Monaghan and either Donegal or Armagh we also have cavan and one of Fermanagh Down coming up. So we have four Ulster county's to contend with. The two coming up are better than the two going down imo and while we could argue about Donegal and Monaghan level at present we haven't beat either in years. Kildare are sure to kick on and so might cork. So all in all unless we sort out very basic things we are doomed for div 3 after next year. That's my fear going forward."
I think Dublin and Derry are better than Armagh,Donegal or Monaghan.I agree Down, Cavan and Fermanagh are better than Limerick but think Clare are around the same as the three of them.What makes you think Kildare and Cork will kick on and we wont?Not having a pop at you but just wondering.I think all three of us are around the same level and on any day either 3 could beat each other and Louth would be the same having improved a good bit so far.I agree we do struggle v Ulster teams so that would be interesting to see how we get on but hopefully by then we will have ironed out a few of our problems.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 296 - 20/03/2023 17:08:13    2465300

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Replying To Proudroyal:  "I think Dublin and Derry are better than Armagh,Donegal or Monaghan.I agree Down, Cavan and Fermanagh are better than Limerick but think Clare are around the same as the three of them.What makes you think Kildare and Cork will kick on and we wont?Not having a pop at you but just wondering.I think all three of us are around the same level and on any day either 3 could beat each other and Louth would be the same having improved a good bit so far.I agree we do struggle v Ulster teams so that would be interesting to see how we get on but hopefully by then we will have ironed out a few of our problems."
I think the games we have had in the past particularly against Donegal would see us struggle. The blanket defense is our kryptonite

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/03/2023 17:44:01    2465318

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "Of course Jim Gavin can take some credit and I see the point you are making but your point on the previous management being responsible for the poor quality of player available to this management. How?

How is it their fault we have for example we have not produced a forward of the quality of Stephen Bray since... well since Stephen Bray? Nothing to do with previous management or current management. This is down to years of neglect and poor coaching structures at underage level .

I accept we are in a poor state and have been for a while but my issue is the lack of a game plan in the games. Are you telling me that 12/13 games with all the training they are doing that we should not seeing some sort of plan or structure starting to take shape?

Are you telling me that after 6 months or so back training that the team should still look like 15 individuals out on the pitch doing their own thing?

I saw a fair bit of louth the year Mickey Harte took over and probably 3 or 4 games in you started to see what they were about and trying to do. They weren't nailing it and took them a good while to start really getting it right but you could see they were working towards something after 3 or 4 games under Harte.

There is no way you can you see any of this in this meath team yet and that is worrying ."
My point is that whether we like it or not, we had a county team prior to COR and co taking over and which had by and large the same group of players for 5 plus years with the exception of some young talented players introduced in the last couple of years. This is basically the set of players COR inherited. These were selected, coached and developed to a certain gameplan all under the watch of the previous management. The current management have introduced a number of new players and it is right to question them until they prove themselves but alot of the players left over from previous management are not at the required level either. It is also right to question the defensive structure but to absolve the previous regime from any responsibility to where we currently are is wrong. Lets wait until after championship. Hopefully by then, more young players of a higher calibre will be involved and we can identify a gameplan. I am not saying what we are seeing is acceptable but we must take a realistic approach. Don't believe its any good setting up defensively and accept damage limitation either. We need to strive for better.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 594 - 20/03/2023 17:44:22    2465319

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Replying To Proudroyal:  "I think Dublin and Derry are better than Armagh,Donegal or Monaghan.I agree Down, Cavan and Fermanagh are better than Limerick but think Clare are around the same as the three of them.What makes you think Kildare and Cork will kick on and we wont?Not having a pop at you but just wondering.I think all three of us are around the same level and on any day either 3 could beat each other and Louth would be the same having improved a good bit so far.I agree we do struggle v Ulster teams so that would be interesting to see how we get on but hopefully by then we will have ironed out a few of our problems."
Kildare seem to have had a slump they recapture last years form and they would be a very big test. They probably should have beat Dublin first day out. Cork I don't know , I guess they're a bit like ourselves in the sleeping giant area. But they seem a bit better than they were against us.
And while it's a long shot we could still have dubs in division aswell that would be a kick up the backside

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/03/2023 19:14:14    2465351

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Replying To seadog54:  "We are a few months into new management, way too early to panic. Why do you think he would be too stubborn? He has 5/6 lads with him already and is on record saying if more expertise is needed it will be added. He took over a team in decline from a manager who did not want to let go. Who thought having three members of his family on panel was for the best of Meath football! This management team are no fools, like us they see whats it front of them. Of course most have concerns, however there is no quick cure, we finally have a chance to get things right after years of let downs, we either give them time or just face into another 20 years of failure."
In fairness James Mcentee would have been on the panel no matter who was in charge, Shane probably too. They have both represented Meath all the way up, I'm fairly sure Mick Odowd had Shane on the panel

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 938 - 20/03/2023 19:21:24    2465356

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Replying To seadog54:  "I think every manager in all walks of life, football included has to take a certain amount of responsibility for what they leave behind. In our case it was a man who stayed on way too long and Meath football are pàying the price. New players while showing inital promise were allowed stagnate within that system. If any manager is going to include 3 members of own family to the cost of others then they must be 3 of the very best in county. BM has done his time so not sure why you bring him up. If Andy had given McGill the wake up call he needed, then he might still be part of panel. Remainder of post is a lot of what ifs. You describe in last few lines what has been wrong with Meath football for years now, zero organisation and zero structure. Big difference is 6 years v 6 months."
Ok so let me get this straight.

It is Andy McEntees fault that Conor McGill supposedly wasn't fit and wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing this year ?? That is absolutely laughable.

I brought Brian Menton up because in the original post it was said it's the previous managements fault for the quality of player available to the current management so I was asking is it the previous managements fault that the best Midfielder in the county decided to opt out this year ?

And as for your "3 members of his own family" narrative.

I don't think there would be one Meath supporter on here or for that matter in the county that wouldn't have had James McEntee on the panel for all the time Andy had him on. As for the Shane. Well he definitely divides opinion but the fact is this is his 3rd Meath manager to play under so it's not just a case of him being only on there under his dad.

As for the other family member being on the panel I would agree with you on that but I think you are being extremely disingenuous by suggesting James and Shane were only on there because they were Andys family members as it suits your anti Andy McEntee narrative

And as for the 6 years v 6 months. Are you saying that you see no issue at all with the fact that there is not even a glimpse of any kind of game plan starting to take shape after probably 12/15 games? You don't see just issue with that at all?

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1012 - 20/03/2023 20:48:55    2465372

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "In fairness James Mcentee would have been on the panel no matter who was in charge, Shane probably too. They have both represented Meath all the way up, I'm fairly sure Mick Odowd had Shane on the panel"
He did. He gave him his debut

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 21/03/2023 07:16:03    2465382

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "Ok so let me get this straight.

It is Andy McEntees fault that Conor McGill supposedly wasn't fit and wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing this year ?? That is absolutely laughable.

I brought Brian Menton up because in the original post it was said it's the previous managements fault for the quality of player available to the current management so I was asking is it the previous managements fault that the best Midfielder in the county decided to opt out this year ?

And as for your "3 members of his own family" narrative.

I don't think there would be one Meath supporter on here or for that matter in the county that wouldn't have had James McEntee on the panel for all the time Andy had him on. As for the Shane. Well he definitely divides opinion but the fact is this is his 3rd Meath manager to play under so it's not just a case of him being only on there under his dad.

As for the other family member being on the panel I would agree with you on that but I think you are being extremely disingenuous by suggesting James and Shane were only on there because they were Andys family members as it suits your anti Andy McEntee narrative

And as for the 6 years v 6 months. Are you saying that you see no issue at all with the fact that there is not even a glimpse of any kind of game plan starting to take shape after probably 12/15 games? You don't see just issue with that at all?"
Put it so much better than I could

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 21/03/2023 07:18:24    2465383

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