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Replying To nobull456: "Maybe we should reserve judgement on players for a while longer. It seemed players were constrained by fear too often with this management in the last couple of years. Andy did his best we know. A passionate Meath man who gave it everything. Maybe he tried too hard in some ways . Thanks for that Andy ! will be interesting to see how players respond to a new MANAGEMENT team. Coaching in all areas could be massively improved. Freshness in approach in itself should give a lift to begin with. Full thanks to the players also . They deserve the best we can offer from here ,and in return they will give us the best they can offer .Otherwise what's the point ?" Would agree judgement on players needs to be reserved until we see how the fare within a new setup. None of the younger lads have progressed, many falling way short of what we hoped for. Hickey to name one has cut a frustrated figure in recent games, no doubting his ability but for whatever reason has lost that spark. No evidence of required level of coaching over last few years, whatever the reasons, we have been going backwards, zero confidence and little or no basic skills on show.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 09/06/2022 15:38:34
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "I suppose longwood I never saw players down tools on Andy I saw them fall back into a blanket and mark space, while I don't like it and makes it look like guys are standing around aimlessly, that's the shape that we were clearly playing which is my point. And I don't think any were disenfranchised with Andy as a person but maybe the style of game they were being asked to play." thats a fair point joe...but you have to accept that we do need to be careful , and have balance here in our assessment...and i say one or two of the younger guys "walking" during a senior inter county game...with the ball no more than 20 yards away...we all have to own our responsibility in this..for sure andy's course has now run.....but there was and is a lot to learn by some players in their perfomances over the last year
Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 09/06/2022 15:46:03
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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher: "thats a fair point joe...but you have to accept that we do need to be careful , and have balance here in our assessment...and i say one or two of the younger guys "walking" during a senior inter county game...with the ball no more than 20 yards away...we all have to own our responsibility in this..for sure andy's course has now run.....but there was and is a lot to learn by some players in their perfomances over the last year" I'd absolutely share those suspicions on one or two but given their age and the lack of structure with the ball in hand I'd give them another year. I'm not blaming Andy either, that's the way he wants to play and felt it was his best chance at a result but I'm just hoping a more expansive style of play and there's a spark back. I think this year could be put down to it all seeming flat rather than downing tools but may be wrong
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 09/06/2022 15:56:10
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "Could be wrong RD but I read this as fear of losing the ball/defensive set up so didn't express themselves more so that actual fear of Andy." You are correct . I have never been critical of the Andy the person, nor have i ever read anything here where a poster was critical of Andy or his integrity NEVER . I know the moderators would not print if it was personal,and rightly so ! I totally reject any of the alleged personal insults to Andy and his family..Absolutely no place in sport.
So RD its clear you are a passionate Meath supporter . I note you seem to let the passion run into the pen at times when you say this forum could be linked in any way to the personal insults on Andy if read your comment correctly However maybe taking a count ,or resting on the ropes for a while might be an idea . Its only sport after all !!
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 09/06/2022 16:04:47
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "I suppose longwood I never saw players down tools on Andy I saw them fall back into a blanket and mark space, while I don't like it and makes it look like guys are standing around aimlessly, that's the shape that we were clearly playing which is my point. And I don't think any were disenfranchised with Andy as a person but maybe the style of game they were being asked to play." CORRECT !
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 09/06/2022 16:10:39
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Replying To brian: "nail on the head there Longwood. Whilst i felt Andy failed the players in a lot of the preparatory aspects in the last 2+ years and maybe stifled some players with the team's style of play the players need to be accountable for very basic mistakes on the pitch. Andy can't kick the ball for them and make on pitch decision for them to kick balls into area's where there's a sweeper. These players need to realise they're on a county panel and they can't make mistakes. What you might get away with in a club game in meath will be exposed at county level.
As you rightly say what do they think of their leaders in Menton and Keoghan and why would they not try and follow that example. Both players have won nothing with Meath but every time they go out on the pitch they leave all of themselves out there. When they play for their clubs they are standout performers. How would that not inspire a young panel member to raise their standards. I think someone mentioned earlier at club games it's hard to know who the county players are and they're not wrong. A county panellist should be head and shoulders above the rest but we don't have that. Are we honestly that bereft of talented footballers that our county players can't stand out for their clubs.
What troubles me most is that the lads from the 2012 minor team are still in a state of flux (Harnan, both McEntee's, Cillian) and in and out of the team and until that is resolved and they become serious contributors and lead the team forward then we're screwed. These lads are all 28 at least and need to show the leadership to the next group of 2017 minors (Costello, Harkin, Hickey, Morris) onwards but they need that group to drive them on too.
Otherwise i fear we're on a rapid downward decent into irrelevance. Will those lads from 2017 really want to hold on and toil to bring Meath back to any kind of level's some of us remember. Or will they pack it up and move on with their lives. Then all the work at underage will be for nought as we'll have a young team with no leaders at all and young players coming into a rudderless set up with no one to set the tone and lead the way.
But the players need to take a long hard look in the mirror now and decide what they want to do. We could get Gavin, McGuinness and Fitzmaurice as a ticket but if the players don't take some ownership and accountability for driving standards and outting in the really hard work thats needed, then we're well and truly screwed," Of course the players have a major responsibility and deserve the best possible preparation. I think it may be interesting to see how they respond to a new voice and approach. The CB have a massive job to find the man to fit the role of manager. Thats all that matters now i suggest ! BUT the CB need to have agood look at themselves first.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 09/06/2022 16:24:53
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Replying To nobull456: "Of course the players have a major responsibility and deserve the best possible preparation. I think it may be interesting to see how they respond to a new voice and approach. The CB have a massive job to find the man to fit the role of manager. Thats all that matters now i suggest ! BUT the CB need to have agood look at themselves first." Yep, agree with that too nobull ;)
There's no silver bullet to solve the problems as they are many and multiple and in what order they are who knows.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 09/06/2022 16:42:58
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We need to find a manager who does the basics right and then we can build from there.
1. A decent back room team with innovative and intelligent people. I want to see basketball ball/Olympic handball coaches for a start.
2. A kickout strategy fit for intercounty football
3. A number of free takers identified and trained (rocket science for some seemingly)
4. A panel made up of players with many varied attributes - again the current panel is 80% made up of half forwards/wing backs who are not currently intercounty standard, which leaves zero option for variation.. For example, no long kickout option possible nor is occasional direct ball into a ball winning full forward as no fielders - there's a mark in play ffs!!
5. Cohesion between senior, u20, junior and development panels (the junior team should at this stage be made up of promising players , no matter what level in county playing at, essentially a B team that is treated seriously and resourced correctly. They should be made feel like they are taken seriously and that they are being watched with an eye to a senior career. Far too many players discarded in the county. Time to be finally humble and treat every single player in the county as a potential county player, no matter what club he plays for etc
Get some of these basics, and they really are basics, in place and we might start moving in the right direction. I don't really care who the manager is or where he's from or what his reputation is but if he can't get the above sorted very quickly, then he's not up to it.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 09/06/2022 18:29:10
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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher: "look guys....im not going to be as emotional as Rd on this subject...and at the same time, im not running down RD here , as he is right about the fact that a few misplaced words or comments in the hands of a few idiots is terrible, and totally to be condemned
But ....the players...in every situation of underperformance have to take a degree of responsibilty and that includs the Younger Im not judging as to whether Andy had or had not got the dressing room......i have a strong view on it...but i think other issues have overshadowed this one issue...what i do not think we can let go is taht very quickly, these "young lads" need to grow up & cop on.
Even if we say some of the younger lads felt disenfranchised of Andy...what di they think of their Team leaders ? , of their opportunity...of their responsibility? I have to say...it must be a hell of an honour to be in the same dressing room as Keoghan, & Menton...if them MEN, could give it all....i dont see any excuses for anyone else not to have. No excuses no BS" I agree. I sometimes I got the feeling, particularly when seeing the lack of effort at putting in tackles against Dublin that sometimes some players did not give their all this year. As if they knew, especially after the nonsense with the county board eleventh hour recommendation to try to remove Andy that Andy would get most of the criticism for things going wrong.
GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 53 - 09/06/2022 18:49:52
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Comments that the players are not there dont hold up when there are questions over how the panels and team are selected. The CB will have to go outside the County to get objectivity. This is because anyone involved deeply in Meath Football will bring baggage about friends clubmates relatives, etc who 'should be on the team'. Otherwise there will continue to be questions.
There is a lack of awareness of what players were left out , or forced to play without the players around them that were needed and likely stepped aside. Forwards especially cant function at a high level when there are players behind them selected on favours not ability.
Hopefully if the CB get it right there wont be a need to moan about lack of players
Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 553 - 09/06/2022 20:07:21
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Interesting interview with Andy on off the ball this morning. Well worth a listen. He confirms the move by some county board members to oust him before Christmas had a big impact on himself and the players confidence. I am not sure if it was common knowledge but a similar move was made to replace our hurling manager at the end of last year too. No alternative candidates were put forward hence Nick Weir remained in charge. I'm all for timely reviews at the end of the season but it's not on when preparations are ongoing for the next season and moves like this are sprung. I imagine our next football and hurling managers will want reassurances that they won't be stabbed in the back by county board officials at the 11th hour.
royal11 (Meath) - Posts: 102 - 10/06/2022 11:18:56
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Replying To royal11: "Interesting interview with Andy on off the ball this morning. Well worth a listen. He confirms the move by some county board members to oust him before Christmas had a big impact on himself and the players confidence. I am not sure if it was common knowledge but a similar move was made to replace our hurling manager at the end of last year too. No alternative candidates were put forward hence Nick Weir remained in charge. I'm all for timely reviews at the end of the season but it's not on when preparations are ongoing for the next season and moves like this are sprung. I imagine our next football and hurling managers will want reassurances that they won't be stabbed in the back by county board officials at the 11th hour." Yes ! It was clear confidence was very low . If i was Andy i would have told them to get stuffed at the time as i needed the full support at the top table .Thats why the ball is now firmly at the feet of the CB. Thats why any quick fix solution is a non runner unless there is a willingness for to top table to improve their own standards firstly. They should not be let off the hook ! Anything less masks the real problen which is all about accountibility starting at the top table. If the top table dont see that setting and maintaining standards is absolutely essential then they are not wanted and should go. Club delegates have to sing from the same hyme sheet also. The talent is in the county , There has to be leadership to harness things properly. Leadership starts at the top table. That should help set the tone and culture for everything from there downwards
Sometimes you wonder do these guys really know what there are supposed to be doing, and how leading by example can be so important. Do they realise how things have changed How things were done in the past is history. Move on learn from the past yes. STANDARDS in every thing. set and maintain is the only way forward. Quick fix on its own is a total waste of time and energy now . CB wake up !!!!
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 10/06/2022 12:43:24
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Replying To royal11: "Interesting interview with Andy on off the ball this morning. Well worth a listen. He confirms the move by some county board members to oust him before Christmas had a big impact on himself and the players confidence. I am not sure if it was common knowledge but a similar move was made to replace our hurling manager at the end of last year too. No alternative candidates were put forward hence Nick Weir remained in charge. I'm all for timely reviews at the end of the season but it's not on when preparations are ongoing for the next season and moves like this are sprung. I imagine our next football and hurling managers will want reassurances that they won't be stabbed in the back by county board officials at the 11th hour." Had a watch there and really good job by Andy. As I've said i never doubted his passion or desire to do the job he did and he should be rightly applauded for what he has done. You could tell he was biting his tongue on the move by some in the county board and wanted things moved along by the OTB lads before he said too much. Few things he mentioned were a bit disappointing re effect that vote had (felt like he was blaming the under performance this year on the move) and then not being overly pushed about getting out of division 2 due to lack of strength in depth and not wanting to have losing become a habit. TBF though he made his points on both quite well and he was the guy who was seeing what was happening at the coal face, so I'll take him at his word. Looked he gave six years, some good some bad but ultimately the closing part about the abuse he got is just unacceptable and delighted that he took the time to mention people who sent him letters and messages of support and well wishes. We could all take a leaf from him on that. As i said i think it's fair to discuss the performances etc on the pitch and give fair and reasoned points but when it gets personaly then that's just not on. Wonder if the fella from Collon he mentioned is our own Furlong, cos if it is then fair play to you.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 10/06/2022 12:55:32
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Replying To nobull456: "Yes ! It was clear confidence was very low . If i was Andy i would have told them to get stuffed at the time as i needed the full support at the top table .Thats why the ball is now firmly at the feet of the CB. Thats why any quick fix solution is a non runner unless there is a willingness for to top table to improve their own standards firstly. They should not be let off the hook ! Anything less masks the real problen which is all about accountibility starting at the top table. If the top table dont see that setting and maintaining standards is absolutely essential then they are not wanted and should go. Club delegates have to sing from the same hyme sheet also. The talent is in the county , There has to be leadership to harness things properly. Leadership starts at the top table. That should help set the tone and culture for everything from there downwards
Sometimes you wonder do these guys really know what there are supposed to be doing, and how leading by example can be so important. Do they realise how things have changed How things were done in the past is history. Move on learn from the past yes. STANDARDS in every thing. set and maintain is the only way forward. Quick fix on its own is a total waste of time and energy now . CB wake up !!!!" Well said nobull, as i said yesterday there's many things broken within the county that need to be fixed and even amongst us as supporters of the county. We all have our part to play in restoring the county to what we all want it to be. And as you say everyone needs to be singing off the same hymn sheet, admin, management, players, clubs, delegates and supporters. Once those lads are out there in a green jersey they should have 100% backing from everyone.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 10/06/2022 12:58:47
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Replying To nobull456: "Yes ! It was clear confidence was very low . If i was Andy i would have told them to get stuffed at the time as i needed the full support at the top table .Thats why the ball is now firmly at the feet of the CB. Thats why any quick fix solution is a non runner unless there is a willingness for to top table to improve their own standards firstly. They should not be let off the hook ! Anything less masks the real problen which is all about accountibility starting at the top table. If the top table dont see that setting and maintaining standards is absolutely essential then they are not wanted and should go. Club delegates have to sing from the same hyme sheet also. The talent is in the county , There has to be leadership to harness things properly. Leadership starts at the top table. That should help set the tone and culture for everything from there downwards
Sometimes you wonder do these guys really know what there are supposed to be doing, and how leading by example can be so important. Do they realise how things have changed How things were done in the past is history. Move on learn from the past yes. STANDARDS in every thing. set and maintain is the only way forward. Quick fix on its own is a total waste of time and energy now . CB wake up !!!!" i said it at the time, my biggest fault with Andy was not walking then. His position was made untenable by that attempted Coup by some on the CB. he & more importantly the Squad was on a hiding to nothing at that juncture and bar a real lucky break..it was going to whimp out...when things go wrong ...everyone wants to find a pantomime villain ...but there rarely is one issue, its always a collection of smaller failures ...andy, mr nally, players ...i think losing donal curtis & Finno Murtagh not a help, CB, secretaries on team busses , local media injuries .....when you most NEED things to go your way...invariably they don't
Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 10/06/2022 13:29:54
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Replying To brian: "Had a watch there and really good job by Andy. As I've said i never doubted his passion or desire to do the job he did and he should be rightly applauded for what he has done. You could tell he was biting his tongue on the move by some in the county board and wanted things moved along by the OTB lads before he said too much. Few things he mentioned were a bit disappointing re effect that vote had (felt like he was blaming the under performance this year on the move) and then not being overly pushed about getting out of division 2 due to lack of strength in depth and not wanting to have losing become a habit. TBF though he made his points on both quite well and he was the guy who was seeing what was happening at the coal face, so I'll take him at his word. Looked he gave six years, some good some bad but ultimately the closing part about the abuse he got is just unacceptable and delighted that he took the time to mention people who sent him letters and messages of support and well wishes. We could all take a leaf from him on that. As i said i think it's fair to discuss the performances etc on the pitch and give fair and reasoned points but when it gets personaly then that's just not on. Wonder if the fella from Collon he mentioned is our own Furlong, cos if it is then fair play to you." More excuses from Andy, always looking to lay the blame elsewhere. Vote was reason we had poor season, what about previous years? This management team,Nally included came out on more than one occassion and blamed players, one of their great failings was to pass the buck. The evidence has been plain to see for at least three years, but for whatever reason,ego, stubborness or lack of foresight they refused to put the good of Meath football first. Overall this management got a very easy ride and should have been held to account every year, this is where CB let us down badly. No one should be subject to personal abuse, however, there are always some just waiting to glory in the misfortunes of others in all walks of life.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 10/06/2022 14:17:01
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Replying To Crinigan: "We need to find a manager who does the basics right and then we can build from there.
1. A decent back room team with innovative and intelligent people. I want to see basketball ball/Olympic handball coaches for a start.
2. A kickout strategy fit for intercounty football
3. A number of free takers identified and trained (rocket science for some seemingly)
4. A panel made up of players with many varied attributes - again the current panel is 80% made up of half forwards/wing backs who are not currently intercounty standard, which leaves zero option for variation.. For example, no long kickout option possible nor is occasional direct ball into a ball winning full forward as no fielders - there's a mark in play ffs!!
5. Cohesion between senior, u20, junior and development panels (the junior team should at this stage be made up of promising players , no matter what level in county playing at, essentially a B team that is treated seriously and resourced correctly. They should be made feel like they are taken seriously and that they are being watched with an eye to a senior career. Far too many players discarded in the county. Time to be finally humble and treat every single player in the county as a potential county player, no matter what club he plays for etc
Get some of these basics, and they really are basics, in place and we might start moving in the right direction. I don't really care who the manager is or where he's from or what his reputation is but if he can't get the above sorted very quickly, then he's not up to it." Hard to disagree, you paint a bleak picture on what has been allowed happen over the last number of years, most damming is how we lack in the most basic areas, without these how were we expected to progress, a minor miricle we survived in Div 2. We now start from scratch, as you said get basics right and we can start to move in right direction.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 10/06/2022 14:30:46
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Replying To seadog54: "More excuses from Andy, always looking to lay the blame elsewhere. Vote was reason we had poor season, what about previous years? This management team,Nally included came out on more than one occassion and blamed players, one of their great failings was to pass the buck. The evidence has been plain to see for at least three years, but for whatever reason,ego, stubborness or lack of foresight they refused to put the good of Meath football first. Overall this management got a very easy ride and should have been held to account every year, this is where CB let us down badly. No one should be subject to personal abuse, however, there are always some just waiting to glory in the misfortunes of others in all walks of life." Yeh.....excuses a bit of that allright BUT its all history now . Other than learning from the past and the CB getting their act together whats the point ? .. For me now the past is gone . Its all to play for still and the CB owe everyone the satisfaction of knowing that the future of Meath football is in good hands . They cannot give us more of the same standard of leadership. We have to SEE where lessons have been learned.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 10/06/2022 14:55:57
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Replying To seadog54: "More excuses from Andy, always looking to lay the blame elsewhere. Vote was reason we had poor season, what about previous years? This management team,Nally included came out on more than one occassion and blamed players, one of their great failings was to pass the buck. The evidence has been plain to see for at least three years, but for whatever reason,ego, stubborness or lack of foresight they refused to put the good of Meath football first. Overall this management got a very easy ride and should have been held to account every year, this is where CB let us down badly. No one should be subject to personal abuse, however, there are always some just waiting to glory in the misfortunes of others in all walks of life." "No one should be subject to personal abuse" but "for ego, stubbornness or lack of foresight they refused to put the good of Meath football first"
Jesus wept, 3 personal slights on men I'd imagine you've never met.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 10/06/2022 15:10:29
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Replying To Thejoeshow: ""No one should be subject to personal abuse" but "for ego, stubbornness or lack of foresight they refused to put the good of Meath football first"
Jesus wept, 3 personal slights on men I'd imagine you've never met." All on the context of Meath football, no personal abuse. Its a football forum. Step back from high moral ground.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 10/06/2022 15:42:56
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