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Team v Mayo Meath: Harry Hogan; Seamus Lavin, Conor McGill, Eoin Harkin; Jack O'Connor (0-01), Bryan McMahon (1-00), Cathal Hickey; Bryan Menton (1-00), David Dillon; Eamon Wallace (0-02), Jason Scully, Jack Flynn (0-01, 0-01f); Joey Wallace, Darragh Campion, James Conlon (0-04, 0-03f). Subs: Shane McEntee for McMahon (half-time), Donal Keogan for Cathal Hickey (half-time), Padraic Harnan for David Dillon (half-time), Danny Dixon for Darragh Campion (40), Michael Newman (0-04, 0-03f) for Jason Scully (50), Ronan Ryan for James Conlon (50), Liam Byrne for Harry Hogan (50). By my count that's 8 of the starting 15 v Dublin plus 3 introduced at half time. It doesn't matter if it was second v second or first v first or a mixture. We were hammered out the gates of McHale Park before Half time. A common theme in all three of our defeats this year we were well beaten before half time. That can't be denied. Why did we get ourselves into such big holes consistently. Mayo 3-11 to 1-05 Kildare 1-07 to 0-04 and it was out to 10/11 points in the second half Dublin 2-11 to 0-6 brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 20/10/2021 14:44:56 2386447 Link 13 |
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Wish that was true, as best we are back where we started, no evidence of progression and we witness the same old failings game after game. Last two years have been terrible.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 20/10/2021 16:21:29 2386483 Link 13 |
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Last 2 years have been terrible,serious?last 2 years have been a write off with restrictions,a shambles of a league format,straight knockout championship with dublin in it,destroyed if any injuries, you can't judge a manager in such a situation, his last full year with players he won division 2,got to the super 8s,if you have someone better in mind, say it Utdroyal (Meath) - Posts: 65 - 20/10/2021 18:45:46 2386526 Link 0 |
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Really? That's just not true. You need to remember back to how bad we really were under mod. Only outscored two teams in second half in his tenure. Waterford and Wicklow. The constant second half collapses. The unbelievable unfitness of every player.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/10/2021 19:56:17 2386538 Link 1 |
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Yet 30 other teams played under the same conditions. Come on that's a very poor argument. League and championship was the same for everyone. Injuries are the same for everyone. Mayo lost arguably their best player and got to an all ireland final. This is nothing more than excuses. You play the cards your dealt and get on with it. In his most important game last year v Kildare, Meath trailed by 11 points. No excuse for that. There was only one aim for 2021 get back to division one and that wasn't met. None of us have someone better in mind as the role is not currently available, but that doesn't mean because no one better is available we should just keep going. You can judge a manager under the same criteria the other 30 managers are measured. Look at Kerry, shared a league title, won Munster and their manager wasn't retained. That's the standards we need to apply. Not oh he lost to Dublin and they're unbeatable, so let him keep going. Banty and MOD couldn't beat Dublin either and were shown the door. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 21/10/2021 10:12:45 2386571 Link 14 |
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You've a well known axe to grind with MOD. I'm not saying that's untrue but Andy has huge faults he's not fixed in his five years either. Goalkeeper, free taker, giving up huge headstarts to teams, falling out witha myriad of players. Every coach has their faults RD, maybe its time you left the MOD one behind you.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 21/10/2021 10:16:04 2386574 Link 9 |
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All teams had to contend with these issues, we took advantage of the misfortunes of other teams when we got promoted, swings and roundabouts. We always have an excuse ready to trot out but very few stand up to analysis. Last two years include Div One (one point) ,humiliation by Dublin for a second year in a row, a failure to get promoted from a very average group and worst of all failure to address our glaring shortcomings. Less said about the super eights the better The main defence of management is focused on timeing (a valid enough reason) there is nobody better or simply the fear of change. Poor enough reasons to retain management.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 21/10/2021 12:25:39 2386618 Link 12 |
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Faint praise indeed, we have exchanged the second half collapse for the first half collapse. The only way to analyse current management is how they preformed. forget about Micko, look at results from last couple of years and the failure to correct the issues that have hindered our progress.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 21/10/2021 12:40:51 2386622 Link 14 |
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Poor argument, like you naming about 30 junior standard players to fall out with mcentee lol,of course it was the same for everyone else,no manager should be judged in these nearly unworkable conditions, they lost to kildare by 3,poorest performance under mcentee,what are you trying to say ,kildare Meath games would be 50 50 anyway lad,maybe we would've won with all them players you mentioned lol
Utdroyal (Meath) - Posts: 65 - 21/10/2021 13:30:25 2386633 Link 0 |
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In what world could we apply the same standards for a manger as Kerry currently do. Kerry have 5 all Ireland minor winning teams now backboning their team. The best forward in Ireland, probably the best free taker in Ireland. A thriving club scene. We have none of those things. I agree that we need to set expectations because we are a proud footballing county. But given the horrendous situation we are coming from over the past 10 (and maybe 20) years the criteria for judgement has to be passed on the progression of the team. Are we improving, are we building a team, are young guys coming in to take us forward. In 3/4 years when we've gotten our successful minor teams through hopefully a top under 20's structure and guys playing Sigerson then we can start to judge the team based on trophies. Let's just take a club example. Should Kells have gotten rid of Lar Wall in 2017 because he didn't win them a Keegan cup in his first 3 years? That's the same criteria. You have to set expectations of your management team of course but they have to be realistic. Otherwise you end up like we did from 05-2013 with 5 managers in 9 seasons and you've no stability or chance to build anything
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1527 - 21/10/2021 15:33:50 2386669 Link 11 |
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Most of those who fell out with him are from senior clubs, so that's a great start. So all managers should continue because #Covid... welp ok i guess. 30 other managers were judged in 2020 and 2021 on how the performed. Those who were removed had the same conditions as Andy... but according to some he shouldn't be judged for how his team performed and what he put out on the pitch. They might have been unworkable but Cavan and Tipp won provincial title under them. Kildare were promoted during it. We stagnated and have dropped a level if we're being honest. A spirited second half where Dublin were barely bothered has clouded a lot of peoples judgement. What i'm saying about the Kildare and Dublin games is that McEntee set the team up wrong form the start as he did v Mayo the week before and Dublin in the Leinster Semi final, gave them an 11 point head start, and we were never really in the game to begin with. He adjusted when the games were beyond saving and saved face but lets not forget the beatings handed down by Dublin in 2019 and 2020 as well as barely punching during the super 8's. If you look across the 3 super 8 games in 2019 and the league in 2020, we'd 1 draw in 10 games against the best teams in the country. Andy is no closer to beating any of them and has slipped below where we were in spring 2019. I don't see him having the ability to improve things any further than that. As for your poor jab, well that's like a punch drunk boxer who's ready to fall over. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 21/10/2021 16:50:31 2386693 Link 15 |
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LR i think you're a very perceptive person. The point on Kerry i was trying to make is that even though they have all the things you say and I don't debate that with you at all as it's true is that whilst successful they still seek to improve. They said we don't think Keane can bring us forward and brought back Jack. Now I'm not saying it'll work for them and they could fail again but they try and improve. We don't seem to be trying to improve at senior level. The stated aim was promotion back to division one for 2022 and in the game that mattered most, our team fell assunder and gave up an 11 point lead. Yes they got it back to 3 and all that, but how can we stand by and watch a manager give up huge leads like that (not forgetting the same happened in Mayo and v Dublin later in the championship) You said we have to set a realistic expectation, that was promotion in the league and it wasn't achieved. By a man five years in the role and still having not resolved multiple issues within the team. Those issues are within his control, but he hadn't addressed them from prior years. I take your point re Lar Wall but he was winning competitions with that Kells team, 3 Feis Cup's and Div 1 and 2 league titles and getting to the last 4 of championships. With Andy bar one promotion the similairities don't match up. One promotion and immediate relegation, Super 8's and not gaining a point and that was in 2019. We've regressed since then. Now i concede no alternative to Andy was put forward and the review took way too long but we have a chance now to get our stalls in order for 2023. 2022 is almost redundant as Andy knows he's a dead man walking short of a miracle. We are getting structures together at underage but at the flagship, but we're bereft of a captain and that's what we need to get right. I agree we need stability and getting the next appointment is a major thing as you say to bring through those successful minor and hopefully U20 teams. That's what all of us in Meath want to see. Otherwise we'll lose the progress that is being made at underage and starting to filter into the senior team in Shane Walsh, Matthew Costelloe and Cathal Hickey. We need to park the talk of 10-20 years of neglect and talk about the here and now. We only have ourselves to blame for that and we need to dig ourselves out of that hole which finally we are doing. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 21/10/2021 17:09:17 2386699 Link 14 |
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Lol,they are nowhere near good enough the players you listed,trying to say mcentee fell out with them as if they'd make some difference,for the beatings off dublin, i think you'll find every team that year's took a beating off dublin lol,league 2020 we were absolutely destroyed by injuries, nearly 3/4 of the team were missing if you remember, no team could survive that,super 8s we lost but played to our standard,And thats actually it,our standard, i dont know who you think you are following, meath are below them teams in quality,they have 15-20 inter county standard players, after that the quality dramatically drops,you could see that when Andy tried new players last year, ie in that kildare game you are fascinated with,they weren't up to it,with dublin coming back to the pack it gives meath hope,but its hope,they are still better,at least they wont fall on fitness which was happening in the last regime
Utdroyal (Meath) - Posts: 65 - 21/10/2021 17:29:38 2386703 Link 0 |
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Excuses, excuses and more excuses... poor Andy didn't have this that or the other. He had to deal with injuries, everyone has. He had to deal with Covid, everyone has, he took a beating of Dublin and you're right everyone has. But he hasn't helped himself either. Can't find a settled keeper, no kick out strategy, no consistent free taker.... after 5 years in charge. A club manager would lose his job for any of those after a season, never mind all 3 after five years. Donal Lenihan, undoubtedly one of the best players and free takers in the county would add something this team. Pretty sure most people would agree with that. I saw the roaring matches that Andy had with him during matches and was embarrassed for the lad. Are you saying he wouldn't immediately improve this team. At least they won't fail for fitness..... they were out on their feet after 60 minutes v Dublin, Fitness is a minimum standard for playing. I wouldn't applaud a manager for having a fit team, its the bare minimum of where he should have them. Trying to draw comparisons with MOD is pointless. Its been done to death and I'm not trying to compare him to MOD. I'm trying to compare him to he managers he needs to be beating and quite honestly can't beat. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 21/10/2021 18:20:26 2386713 Link 11 |
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Can the powers that be change this topic to " thread to b*t*h and moan about mcentee" ???... cause that's all this has become now. The management has been changed. Either move on with them or stay at home and moan on the forum every day. southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 938 - 22/10/2021 08:09:47 2386737 Link 19 |
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Kick outs and goalkeeper are the same problem of which he has tried plenty of keepers,he's not houdini,maybe you know another some random junior b club player lol,free taker aswell, he can't just make them, they are ridiculous arguments, Newman, walsh probably the best haven't been available
Utdroyal (Meath) - Posts: 65 - 22/10/2021 10:14:14 2386755 Link 0 |
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Agh so nothing is Andy's fault basically, he doesn't have the players so its the players fault is it... Kickouts - Who is responsible for devising the strategy to try and cover up those short comings? The players themselves or the manager, or the kick out guru nally who talks a great game. Ever club the country over down to junior whatever has a strategy and we're sat here with half an idea.... Continued Junior b barbs despite me naming players from multiple senior clubs, but yeah keep making things up there to suit yourself, sure you did it with the footballing clubs notion.... don't forget Boylan found plenty of junior club players and made them a lot better than they were (Stafford, Paeder Byrne, John McDermott were jumior/intermediate players no one had looked at) Free takers, Donal Lenihan the best exponent of free taking in the county was left sitting on his **** in the stand in a game v Westmeath where 5 - 7 players i believe had a go at the free's. Newman from my own club has never been a consistent free taker and Walsh has never taken frees so once more flawed arguments. Jordan Morris was taking most of the frees in 20 and 21 when Walsh and Newman were on the field. So is Morris not then the best we have!!!! But as I've said for two seasons, why is there no one working with the free takers? Who's coaching them? Who's developing their style and approach to the ball. Again clubs up and down the country work with their free takers on all of these things or get in help from a Kicking coach but again this isn't deemed important by our manager. Who is the person responsible for sending out a team with out a kick out strategy where they win at least 60% of their own ball or sending out a team with out a designated 75% free taker? Would Boylan have sent out a team without a free taker? Would he ever. Stafford and Giles were never free takers in their early days but Sean got them working on it, had Stafford working with Ollie Campbell and they develop an almost metronomic free taking style and you never worried about them. Today i worry if a free is more likely to hit the corner flag or not. We're leaving 5-6 scores on the field in ever game due to poor kick out strategy and lack of a free taker. They are an easy fix and would help the team immeasurably. But yeah the managers just doesn't have the players so lets just give him a free pass for all the failings he has. I've an honest question for any and all but which players have really improved under Andy as a manager? I don't argue that he has brought better structure and fitness to the table but is there anyone who's really that much better under his stewardship? I'd argue probably not, they might be marginally better due to the fitness and structure he's brought but has anyone taken a huge leap forward under him? brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 22/10/2021 11:30:47 2386780 Link 10 |
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looks like your wish is coming true Southmeath gael ....... Chaisleain_Abu (Meath) - Posts: 220 - 22/10/2021 13:37:38 2386821 Link 1 |
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Unfortunately the opportunity to conduct a proper review of Andy Mc Entees management was mucked up by the powers that be by waiting 3 months to reveal . So 8 members had doubts .Thats hardly suprising by any objective measurement based on results plus no improvement in key basic skills areas such as freetaking etc Boylan had that problem but he fixed it as you correctly point out. Andy and his backroom team it seems do not have the capacity to learn at sufficient pace......As i see it the delegates were faced with the choice A do we vote for a new manager at this late stage in October? 2 because of poor timing do i vote for more of the same? We know what happened . We have more of the same by default probably . From here we should expect more of the same in terms of results.. It is sad to discover that a vital properly structured review could not completed and acted on in a timely manner by leadership. nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 22/10/2021 15:08:11 2386834 Link 18 |
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You are missing the point completely I'm not saying Andy should go or stay but clearly the overwhelming majority of clubs think he should stay I'm saying the committee that held the vote should not be the ones deciding on this mater It is not set up with the personal to make this call Their jobs and skill set within the county board is completely different then what is needed to select/ remove an inter county manager as was echoed by clubs An expert committee should be in place for such matters head4dblackspot (Meath) - Posts: 513 - 22/10/2021 16:04:58 2386849 Link 1 |