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"Dublin take to the skies article in Examiner"
Good reading and promps the question " How do Meath analyse training sessions and games" ??? In my view that is a key reason we are where we are .How come the same BASIC mistakes game after game for years now? Dublin Have 29 person Management team but they all seem to have expertise in a key task, It seems they select people to fill a role and NOT the other way round. Because this fundemental area of trying to continually improve
by using and training to remedy mistakes seems absent we are going nowhere. Even if we beat Kildare that is just papering over the cracks...Div 1 is no big deal if you are certain to come back down next year. As things stand thats what will happen without due regard to the key area of training sessions that are designed and structured to promote improvement . Who is picked or not picked to play is little more than a distraction if the key objective of promoting a culture and attitude of critical analysis from here forward for the benefit of Meath football we just stay as we are div 2 at best. Some people seem happy to settle for that ,and if so thats ok dont expect anything and then you avoid dissappointment..Read the article and park the 29 person bit i suggest!
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 03/06/2021 20:09:17
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Replying To nobull456: ""Dublin take to the skies article in Examiner"
Good reading and promps the question " How do Meath analyse training sessions and games" ??? In my view that is a key reason we are where we are .How come the same BASIC mistakes game after game for years now? Dublin Have 29 person Management team but they all seem to have expertise in a key task, It seems they select people to fill a role and NOT the other way round. Because this fundemental area of trying to continually improve
by using and training to remedy mistakes seems absent we are going nowhere. Even if we beat Kildare that is just papering over the cracks...Div 1 is no big deal if you are certain to come back down next year. As things stand thats what will happen without due regard to the key area of training sessions that are designed and structured to promote improvement . Who is picked or not picked to play is little more than a distraction if the key objective of promoting a culture and attitude of critical analysis from here forward for the benefit of Meath football we just stay as we are div 2 at best. Some people seem happy to settle for that ,and if so thats ok dont expect anything and then you avoid dissappointment..Read the article and park the 29 person bit i suggest!" I agree fully with you but to others in the county it does not seem important, for example in last year's Leinster Final a certain player was penalised for a double hop, fair enough one might say but the same player did a double hop in the previous game v Kildare and got away with it. I then stated in a post after the Dublin disaster that team management don't appear to analyze games because if they did this would have been acted on and the mistake avoided in that awful Leinster Final. Some posters took exception to my remarks and said 'it was just a mistake in the heat of the moment' or words to that effect. So there appears very little chance in the near future of taking on board people for specialist roles. Multi tasking will be around for a while yet.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1080 - 04/06/2021 11:48:01
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Replying To MillerX: "I agree fully with you but to others in the county it does not seem important, for example in last year's Leinster Final a certain player was penalised for a double hop, fair enough one might say but the same player did a double hop in the previous game v Kildare and got away with it. I then stated in a post after the Dublin disaster that team management don't appear to analyze games because if they did this would have been acted on and the mistake avoided in that awful Leinster Final. Some posters took exception to my remarks and said 'it was just a mistake in the heat of the moment' or words to that effect. So there appears very little chance in the near future of taking on board people for specialist roles. Multi tasking will be around for a while yet." Great leaders surround themselves with people more intelligent than themselves. That's all I'll say about the management team.
Again, it's the players that are really let down. Directionless. Zero innovation. Inadequate preparation. Don't learn from mistakes. Rinse and repeat.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 05/06/2021 13:39:30
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Replying To MillerX: "I agree fully with you but to others in the county it does not seem important, for example in last year's Leinster Final a certain player was penalised for a double hop, fair enough one might say but the same player did a double hop in the previous game v Kildare and got away with it. I then stated in a post after the Dublin disaster that team management don't appear to analyze games because if they did this would have been acted on and the mistake avoided in that awful Leinster Final. Some posters took exception to my remarks and said 'it was just a mistake in the heat of the moment' or words to that effect. So there appears very little chance in the near future of taking on board people for specialist roles. Multi tasking will be around for a while yet." Reading articles from Andy Mac, Nally and Ronan would suggest an in-depth analysis is carried out after each game using the various technologies at their disposal and suggests we have all required resources necessary. While we may not be in the position to have 29 of a back-room team (every one a volunteer, no doubt) like Dublin, I am not sure this is something we should be overly concerned about.
Our shortcomings need no micro analysis, they are plain for all to see, it is the failure of management to address these problems and often as not just continue to do same thing game after game.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 05/06/2021 22:45:47
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Replying To seadog54: "Reading articles from Andy Mac, Nally and Ronan would suggest an in-depth analysis is carried out after each game using the various technologies at their disposal and suggests we have all required resources necessary. While we may not be in the position to have 29 of a back-room team (every one a volunteer, no doubt) like Dublin, I am not sure this is something we should be overly concerned about.
Our shortcomings need no micro analysis, they are plain for all to see, it is the failure of management to address these problems and often as not just continue to do same thing game after game." Agreed...the dogs in the street know .we have the same shortcommings game after game now for years. Look at how many scores we miss and concede in EVERY match as a result . As you say same old story game after game no improvement. Management can SAY what they like about their analysis. Lets us SEE the results of this corrective action. Too much fear in the team to begin with ! The time for "spoofers and spoofing" is over now. SEEING will be believing !
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 06/06/2021 14:11:37
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As frustrating as it is to have the issue around goal kicks and free taking remain, it's just simply not true to say Andy hasn't brought us closer to the top table. It's very easy to criticise non stop but if we win next Sunday and reach D1 twice in 3 years, considering we were mid table at best for many years is nuts.
I presume those who want Andy gone also wanted Eamonn o brien gone at the time but now on hindsight point To this as a massive error.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 06/06/2021 17:55:33
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "As frustrating as it is to have the issue around goal kicks and free taking remain, it's just simply not true to say Andy hasn't brought us closer to the top table. It's very easy to criticise non stop but if we win next Sunday and reach D1 twice in 3 years, considering we were mid table at best for many years is nuts.
I presume those who want Andy gone also wanted Eamonn o brien gone at the time but now on hindsight point To this as a massive error." Maybe just substitute " those who want Andy gone" for " those who want the TASK done " because nothing personal as i dont know the man. I thought Eamon o Brien was doing the task well ,and developing on the job. I said then and now he should have been let continue, because he seemed to make an honest effort to learn from mistakes. That is all anyone can expect,as no matter who gets the job they will not be made to measure anyway.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 06/06/2021 19:59:08
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "As frustrating as it is to have the issue around goal kicks and free taking remain, it's just simply not true to say Andy hasn't brought us closer to the top table. It's very easy to criticise non stop but if we win next Sunday and reach D1 twice in 3 years, considering we were mid table at best for many years is nuts.
I presume those who want Andy gone also wanted Eamonn o brien gone at the time but now on hindsight point To this as a massive error." They probably did.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 06/06/2021 20:11:36
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Been watching Laois v Kildare on GAA go. Kildare look very tidy. Maybe Laois weren't up to it but we will need to be firing on all cylinders to come out of newbridge with the win. Huge game. The game of 2021 really.
cabbage (Meath) - Posts: 162 - 06/06/2021 22:35:49
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Replying To nobull456: "Maybe just substitute " those who want Andy gone" for " those who want the TASK done " because nothing personal as i dont know the man. I thought Eamon o Brien was doing the task well ,and developing on the job. I said then and now he should have been let continue, because he seemed to make an honest effort to learn from mistakes. That is all anyone can expect,as no matter who gets the job they will not be made to measure anyway." I completely agree, but compare the team now to the team that played under previous management and we are a more consistent outfit, fitter (Andy learnt from a big error in this regard), bringing in new blood.
I'm as frustrated as anyone with the free taking and kick outs (Altho colgan did seem better albeit against weaker teams). Meath have been in a dark place for a long time and I do think the task of getting back
To the top table is progressing.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 06/06/2021 23:04:21
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "As frustrating as it is to have the issue around goal kicks and free taking remain, it's just simply not true to say Andy hasn't brought us closer to the top table. It's very easy to criticise non stop but if we win next Sunday and reach D1 twice in 3 years, considering we were mid table at best for many years is nuts.
I presume those who want Andy gone also wanted Eamonn o brien gone at the time but now on hindsight point To this as a massive error." Joe I think that is a bit of a misnomer to say that Andy has brought us closer to the top table. The reason i say that is the teams ahead of us have improved faster than us in the time that Andy has been on board. That is not a knock on Andy in any way.
I give Andy 100% credit for the fact that the team is fitter, stronger, faster, more resilient and has more fight and spirit within it than when he took over. The depth of the panel is better and there's some successful underage teams coming in to supplement that.
However we have to counter that and say that
Dublin have gotten stronger and are out of sight
Kerry are getting better and four minor all ireland winning teams are getting to 23/24 years old and improving the Kerrry team
Mayo are in transition but still much stronger than us,
Donegal and Tyrone have gotten better and their panels and the depth of their panels is substantially better than what we have.
We haven't beaten any of those teams under Andy and until we can get out on the pitch and beat one of them it's hard to make a case for us being close to that top table and calibre. Our margin of defeat against these teams is widening every time we play them and we need to start running them an awful lot closer before proclaiming we're closer to the top table.
If we asked ourselves a very honest question would any member of our panel start on any of those five teams bar perhaps Donal Keoghan. I couldn't make a strong case for many and that's the next evolution of this team, be that with Andy or someone else. We need players that would get their place on top tier teams which would in turn be improving the level of the Meath team. Our midfield are not natural fielders and would be half backs or half forwards on those teams at best. We don't have a marquee forward ala Con, Kilkenny, Clifford even a Shae Walsh (Galway) or Conor McManus. Until we have that kind of a player who teams would be buying (if a transfer market existed in GAA) we'll still be a bit behind.
As we all agree getting back into Division 1 was they key goal in 2021, and if we do win at the weekend that's mission accomplished. But that will be no easy task either. If we win at the weekend and get knocked out in Leinster by a team not named Dublin the same questions would need to be asked. After 5 years an honest review with Andy and what his future plans are need to be established. Hopefully in the next couple of years with some of the players coming through we'll further improve and close the gap.
I know some on here have the opinion that I want Andy gone, I don't. Andy has done a good job, but his blind spots have seriously hampered him and the team. I am on record as saying us sacking Eamonn O'Brien was a very bad step and it's set us back years. But continued assessment and reviews at the end of each season and a forward looking plan is essential to bridging the gap to that top table.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 07/06/2021 15:52:26
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Replying To brian: "Joe I think that is a bit of a misnomer to say that Andy has brought us closer to the top table. The reason i say that is the teams ahead of us have improved faster than us in the time that Andy has been on board. That is not a knock on Andy in any way.
I give Andy 100% credit for the fact that the team is fitter, stronger, faster, more resilient and has more fight and spirit within it than when he took over. The depth of the panel is better and there's some successful underage teams coming in to supplement that.
However we have to counter that and say that
Dublin have gotten stronger and are out of sight
Kerry are getting better and four minor all ireland winning teams are getting to 23/24 years old and improving the Kerrry team
Mayo are in transition but still much stronger than us,
Donegal and Tyrone have gotten better and their panels and the depth of their panels is substantially better than what we have.
We haven't beaten any of those teams under Andy and until we can get out on the pitch and beat one of them it's hard to make a case for us being close to that top table and calibre. Our margin of defeat against these teams is widening every time we play them and we need to start running them an awful lot closer before proclaiming we're closer to the top table.
If we asked ourselves a very honest question would any member of our panel start on any of those five teams bar perhaps Donal Keoghan. I couldn't make a strong case for many and that's the next evolution of this team, be that with Andy or someone else. We need players that would get their place on top tier teams which would in turn be improving the level of the Meath team. Our midfield are not natural fielders and would be half backs or half forwards on those teams at best. We don't have a marquee forward ala Con, Kilkenny, Clifford even a Shae Walsh (Galway) or Conor McManus. Until we have that kind of a player who teams would be buying (if a transfer market existed in GAA) we'll still be a bit behind.
As we all agree getting back into Division 1 was they key goal in 2021, and if we do win at the weekend that's mission accomplished. But that will be no easy task either. If we win at the weekend and get knocked out in Leinster by a team not named Dublin the same questions would need to be asked. After 5 years an honest review with Andy and what his future plans are need to be established. Hopefully in the next couple of years with some of the players coming through we'll further improve and close the gap.
I know some on here have the opinion that I want Andy gone, I don't. Andy has done a good job, but his blind spots have seriously hampered him and the team. I am on record as saying us sacking Eamonn O'Brien was a very bad step and it's set us back years. But continued assessment and reviews at the end of each season and a forward looking plan is essential to bridging the gap to that top table." We ran Kerry mayo and even dubs pretty close in last year's league. We can't really talk about last weeks game. As that was more akin to a televised challenge match. (Which may I add I didn't agree with all the changes) I think we should have gone all out. But that's a personal viewpoint
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 07/06/2021 20:47:10
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Replying To brian: "Joe I think that is a bit of a misnomer to say that Andy has brought us closer to the top table. The reason i say that is the teams ahead of us have improved faster than us in the time that Andy has been on board. That is not a knock on Andy in any way.
I give Andy 100% credit for the fact that the team is fitter, stronger, faster, more resilient and has more fight and spirit within it than when he took over. The depth of the panel is better and there's some successful underage teams coming in to supplement that.
However we have to counter that and say that
Dublin have gotten stronger and are out of sight
Kerry are getting better and four minor all ireland winning teams are getting to 23/24 years old and improving the Kerrry team
Mayo are in transition but still much stronger than us,
Donegal and Tyrone have gotten better and their panels and the depth of their panels is substantially better than what we have.
We haven't beaten any of those teams under Andy and until we can get out on the pitch and beat one of them it's hard to make a case for us being close to that top table and calibre. Our margin of defeat against these teams is widening every time we play them and we need to start running them an awful lot closer before proclaiming we're closer to the top table.
If we asked ourselves a very honest question would any member of our panel start on any of those five teams bar perhaps Donal Keoghan. I couldn't make a strong case for many and that's the next evolution of this team, be that with Andy or someone else. We need players that would get their place on top tier teams which would in turn be improving the level of the Meath team. Our midfield are not natural fielders and would be half backs or half forwards on those teams at best. We don't have a marquee forward ala Con, Kilkenny, Clifford even a Shae Walsh (Galway) or Conor McManus. Until we have that kind of a player who teams would be buying (if a transfer market existed in GAA) we'll still be a bit behind.
As we all agree getting back into Division 1 was they key goal in 2021, and if we do win at the weekend that's mission accomplished. But that will be no easy task either. If we win at the weekend and get knocked out in Leinster by a team not named Dublin the same questions would need to be asked. After 5 years an honest review with Andy and what his future plans are need to be established. Hopefully in the next couple of years with some of the players coming through we'll further improve and close the gap.
I know some on here have the opinion that I want Andy gone, I don't. Andy has done a good job, but his blind spots have seriously hampered him and the team. I am on record as saying us sacking Eamonn O'Brien was a very bad step and it's set us back years. But continued assessment and reviews at the end of each season and a forward looking plan is essential to bridging the gap to that top table." Completely agree brian and I would stress I think we are closer to the top but not close!
I would not give Andy a free pass as the kickouts and free taking is beyond frustrating but in all fairness
If we cast our minds back to the type of performance we got under mick at times we are better.
Fully agree if not this year than next year we need to start winning games against big teams and if not then fair enough but I personally have confidence that we can do that.
*If conor nash was to return and our own Shane walsh delivered on the potential he has then I think we can beat some of those teams ahead of us. I think Andy has gotten a lot right (and some fundamentals wrong). I was disappointed we did not bring donaghy into the back team as his experience and attacking play would have been huge for me.
To sum up, would not give Andy a 5 year deal but also would not be expecting him to go this summer (bar a bad defeat to Kildare Sunday and a poor Leinster loss).
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 07/06/2021 20:58:14
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Replying To royaldunne: "We ran Kerry mayo and even dubs pretty close in last year's league. We can't really talk about last weeks game. As that was more akin to a televised challenge match. (Which may I add I didn't agree with all the changes) I think we should have gone all out. But that's a personal viewpoint" How many of those 4 games did we win?
Talking about last weekend as a glorified challenge match but then saying we ran Dublin close in the league when it was played under the same conditions. Dublin had half a team out and played with the hand brake on. They absolutely demolished us in 20 minutes in the Leinster final.
RD seriously take off the blinkers some of the times. Its ok to be critical and constructive at the same time
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 08/06/2021 09:11:54
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Replying To brian: "How many of those 4 games did we win?
Talking about last weekend as a glorified challenge match but then saying we ran Dublin close in the league when it was played under the same conditions. Dublin had half a team out and played with the hand brake on. They absolutely demolished us in 20 minutes in the Leinster final.
RD seriously take off the blinkers some of the times. Its ok to be critical and constructive at the same time" Not saying it's not ok. The big picture is both Kerry and mayo games, and indeed Galway, however ud have to wonder after this year were Galway all the were made out to be, if memory serves me right quite a number of that Dublin team played in all ire series. No one is taking away from their brilliance, and if there was to be a excuse for their performance in that game it was the first one after the break, so maybe not the dubs that we have became use to.
However how anyone could say the last game wasn't a glorified challenge match is beyond me, NEITHER county took it seriously. What it did show is after our first 15/20 we are very limited compared to mayo. No one is denying that. To state the obvious is not having blinkers on. Only on Sunday will we know where we are. Until then all praise or criticism is mute. Our whole year depends on Sunday, regardless of what I may wish and hope for, dubs will win Leinster and indeed will win all ire with the media praising Kerry and saying next year (won't happen then either). I hope I am wrong on championship but I can't see it.
Our Leinster/ all Ireland is on Sunday.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 08/06/2021 10:48:17
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Replying To brian: "How many of those 4 games did we win?
Talking about last weekend as a glorified challenge match but then saying we ran Dublin close in the league when it was played under the same conditions. Dublin had half a team out and played with the hand brake on. They absolutely demolished us in 20 minutes in the Leinster final.
RD seriously take off the blinkers some of the times. Its ok to be critical and constructive at the same time" I have to laugh a bit about our league game vs the Dubs last year. Everyone in the country bar Meath people saw Dublin going through the motions in an inconsequential game. Yet people here said Dublin were actually fighting for their lives and had to pull out all the stops and get a lucky goal to beat Meath.
If Dublin gave their all to beat us by 4 points in October, how is it they beat us by 20 points a month later? Giving more than their all?
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1668 - 08/06/2021 11:15:49
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Replying To CastleBravo: "I have to laugh a bit about our league game vs the Dubs last year. Everyone in the country bar Meath people saw Dublin going through the motions in an inconsequential game. Yet people here said Dublin were actually fighting for their lives and had to pull out all the stops and get a lucky goal to beat Meath.
If Dublin gave their all to beat us by 4 points in October, how is it they beat us by 20 points a month later? Giving more than their all?" Pandemic?? I think that explains everything
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 08/06/2021 13:22:12
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Replying To royaldunne: "Pandemic?? I think that explains everything" Or maybe as i said league game dublin played with the hand brake on and won by 4, took it off for Leinster final and made a show of us.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 08/06/2021 14:01:55
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Replying To brian: "Or maybe as i said league game dublin played with the hand brake on and won by 4, took it off for Leinster final and made a show of us." They also made a show of the ulster champions. We hardly the only county they have made a show of in past few years. They kept the breaks on even in all ire final.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 08/06/2021 14:18:43
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Replying To brian: "Or maybe as i said league game dublin played with the hand brake on and won by 4, took it off for Leinster final and made a show of us." Dublin aside.
You didn't mention the other counties I spoke of. Mayo , Kerry Galway, even Donegal.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 08/06/2021 14:19:34
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