Cavan Forum

Mattie Must Go!

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Nobody really scores 5 or 6 points from play anymore, not even the lads mentioned above.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12133 - 20/01/2017 16:01:18    1947387

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Replying To tenyearplan:  "Very disappointed with the game last night - I know people say it s only the mc kenna cup but that's too simplistic . you have to try to win every game . It would be far better going in to the league with momentum than on a downer like that. - We should have had at least one more game in the competition which would bring us nicely into the Dublin match. While I don't want to be too harsh on the lads there should be no excuse for that performance. We were all over the place - no pattern, terrible shot selection - no structure , no game plan. I think the management erred in not starting with a stronger team - they took UUJ for granted and by the time they realised we were in a game it was too late. I'm all for giving new players a chance but not all at once . I heard Mattie saying we are "on a great learning curve ". Just what the hell is that about ? We are supposed to be a division 1 team not continual learners. I saw absolutely nothing different about the style of play - I think that's all in his head. I m afraid the bottom line is we just haven't the players - we have a lot of good players but absolutely no class forwards. Until we get someone like McBrearty , Conor Mc Manus , Kilian O Connor , Diarmaid Connolly( and about 6 other Dubliners ) , Michael Murphy , Gooch , etc I'm afraid we will never win anything again. We haven't a top class forward who is comfortable in possession and can kick five or six points from play. I sincerely hope I m wrong but I cant see see us holding our place in Div 1 judging by what I ve seen so far ."
Remember the great Meath team of 2016 who won the O'Byrne Cup? No?

Didn't do the neighbours much good as I recall (for league or championship)

ramor101 (Cavan) - Posts: 289 - 20/01/2017 16:13:19    1947391

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Replying To Breffni39:  "Nobody really scores 5 or 6 points from play anymore, not even the lads mentioned above."
Mc Brearty, McManus did it a few times in the last few years. Rock as well.
In 2015 Brogan scored 6-19 all from play .
So it's being done. Think you need to brush up on your facts

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 20/01/2017 17:46:23    1947412

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Mc Brearty, McManus did it a few times in the last few years. Rock as well.
In 2015 Brogan scored 6-19 all from play .
So it's being done. Think you need to brush up on your facts"
Obviously there are anecdotal exceptions like this but they are rare.

Brogan is one of the greats but he wracked that up cos of the Leinster championship turkey-shoot.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12133 - 20/01/2017 18:23:12    1947422

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It's not just the top Counties that have star forwards. Niall McNamee, Brian Kavanagh Longford, Michael Quinlivan, Conor Sweeney, Tomas Corrigan, , Diarmuid Murtagh are all very good forwards.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 20/01/2017 19:00:54    1947432

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Paul O Connor seems to have loads of ability . Anytime I ve seen him ( from Under - 21 up ) he has impressed and has a great eye for goal . Trouble is he seems to be unfortunate with injury . if he could get a clear run he s the most natural forward we have in my opinion .
As someone posted Seanie Johnston is a good player but not consistent enough especially in the big games. He can get marked out of it far too easily by a good defender - he has to have the ball played in a certain way to him as well ( did you ever see him catch a ball over his head ? )
Hopefully Jack Brady can get back soon - he had a good year last year and has gained a lot of experience

tenyearplan (Cavan) - Posts: 147 - 20/01/2017 19:34:24    1947441

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So our Mckenna cup campaign is over & I have to say that I'm disappointed that we didn't get at least one more competitive game out of it being a semi final against the likes of Fermanagh. As I said before it started that it should have been used to get ready for the league opener & while it has enhanced the reputation of a few lads namely Gerry smith, Shane o rourke & Fergal Reilly, personally I feel that another game would have allowed Mattie gel the team better as lads like Rory dunne, dara mcveety, Conor moynagh
Have played very little if any. No amount of 'in house' games can prepare a team for the challenges that the likes of McHugh, mcbrearty & Bradley presented Wednesday night. Think we probably took them for granted. Anyway all eyes now focused on the dubs. Let's hope injuries clear up quickly & we are ready to do ourselves justice

bond (Longford) - Posts: 174 - 20/01/2017 21:12:29    1947464

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Replying To tenyearplan:  "Paul O Connor seems to have loads of ability . Anytime I ve seen him ( from Under - 21 up ) he has impressed and has a great eye for goal . Trouble is he seems to be unfortunate with injury . if he could get a clear run he s the most natural forward we have in my opinion .
As someone posted Seanie Johnston is a good player but not consistent enough especially in the big games. He can get marked out of it far too easily by a good defender - he has to have the ball played in a certain way to him as well ( did you ever see him catch a ball over his head ? )
Hopefully Jack Brady can get back soon - he had a good year last year and has gained a lot of experience"
Seanie is not cut out for catching balls over his head.
Given the right ball in the right area he knows what to do with it .
Since he came back last year I've found his off the ball movement very very good. Also he's not as selfish on the ball as he use to be. He brings players quickly into an attack.
Brogan to me has been the best forward this past few years maybe not last year but previous to that.
His off the ball movement is outstanding. Best movement I've seen. And he wastes very few chances.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 20/01/2017 22:10:00    1947476

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In my opinion we are at a level hovering between division 1 and 2 so for me staying up isn't that imporant as I believe whoever goes down will come straight back up anyway, just like Cork will this year. Once we are competitive everythings fine. All about championship

97Cavans (Cavan) - Posts: 329 - 21/01/2017 01:19:20    1947497

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Galway have as much talent as Cavan and have been in Division 2 for years. Not that easy to get out of it.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 21/01/2017 11:03:06    1947512

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Galway have as much talent as Cavan and have been in Division 2 for years. Not that easy to get out of it."
Galway won a Connacht title last year so I'd say they have more talent than us especially with their underage success.
If we win 3 games in Div 1 I will be surprised.
Mattie needs time. The same time as the last manager got.
I'd expect us to beat Donegal at home and maybe Monaghan and Roscommon.
It's between those 4 to go down.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 21/01/2017 14:21:21    1947536

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Galway have more attacking talent. Cavan would have a better defence.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 22/01/2017 19:19:57    1947809

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Galway won a Connacht title last year so I'd say they have more talent than us especially with their underage success.
If we win 3 games in Div 1 I will be surprised.
Mattie needs time. The same time as the last manager got.
I'd expect us to beat Donegal at home and maybe Monaghan and Roscommon.
It's between those 4 to go down."
I have a feeling we will take 4 points from our first three matches that is off course he makes a lot of changes to try and balance the team for there is no balance at the moment. In fairness he has tried a lot of players so I expect he will start narrowing down the senior squad and maybe keep the others if there is a junior competition this way he has two options if he sees players develop more going forward.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 22/01/2017 20:33:07    1947869

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yes, to be fair it's just as important to rule people out as it is to pencil people in. It's also as important to rule certain options and systems out as it is to rule them in. As they say you learn more by losing than you do by winning. That's what the McKenna should be about

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 23/01/2017 09:45:03    1947975

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Replying To seanorinn:  "I have a feeling we will take 4 points from our first three matches that is off course he makes a lot of changes to try and balance the team for there is no balance at the moment. In fairness he has tried a lot of players so I expect he will start narrowing down the senior squad and maybe keep the others if there is a junior competition this way he has two options if he sees players develop more going forward."
Seanorinn

Tomsmith from Cavan Town here

I feel that you have summed up our 2017 prospects very fairly and indeed you are spot on when you state he needs time.
What type of Junior competition do you feel would benefit Cavan??

While you never embraced my Divisional teams proposal with open arms ( I am disappointed as you have a great line into the powers that be) do you not feel that even yet a few Divisional games without the County men would show mattie what we have in reserve or who is not yet tried ??
I seem to be a lone voice for Divisional teams so I beg of the Geals of Cavan to be forward thinking and look at the benefits.

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3870 - 24/01/2017 09:34:23    1948319

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Seanorinn

Tomsmith from Cavan Town here

I feel that you have summed up our 2017 prospects very fairly and indeed you are spot on when you state he needs time.
What type of Junior competition do you feel would benefit Cavan??

While you never embraced my Divisional teams proposal with open arms ( I am disappointed as you have a great line into the powers that be) do you not feel that even yet a few Divisional games without the County men would show mattie what we have in reserve or who is not yet tried ??
I seem to be a lone voice for Divisional teams so I beg of the Geals of Cavan to be forward thinking and look at the benefits."
Tom if the clubs stood together and recommenced their stand out players not because of who Dad is or was or Mum for that matter The county would be a far better place. This would be a step in the right direction I can tell you.
I see players come and go some because they could not hack it others because they were not up to what is required and others because they felt it was their way or no way.
Quality has been ignored not by the management but by those that really don't know what a good player is. It's that simple it should not matter what side of the fence you come from once you have the ability to (Within the club set up) play and to mix you should be half way's there.
This has alway's been my opinion and has been since I understood the set ups 50 years or so ago.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 24/01/2017 11:58:03    1948371

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Replying To seanorinn:  "Tom if the clubs stood together and recommenced their stand out players not because of who Dad is or was or Mum for that matter The county would be a far better place. This would be a step in the right direction I can tell you.
I see players come and go some because they could not hack it others because they were not up to what is required and others because they felt it was their way or no way.
Quality has been ignored not by the management but by those that really don't know what a good player is. It's that simple it should not matter what side of the fence you come from once you have the ability to (Within the club set up) play and to mix you should be half way's there.
This has alway's been my opinion and has been since I understood the set ups 50 years or so ago. "
My above post is no reflection on any players currently on the panel in case anyone start implying that it is.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 24/01/2017 12:25:20    1948380

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Replying To seanorinn:  "
Replying To seanorinn:  "Tom if the clubs stood together and recommenced their stand out players not because of who Dad is or was or Mum for that matter The county would be a far better place. This would be a step in the right direction I can tell you.
I see players come and go some because they could not hack it others because they were not up to what is required and others because they felt it was their way or no way.
Quality has been ignored not by the management but by those that really don't know what a good player is. It's that simple it should not matter what side of the fence you come from once you have the ability to (Within the club set up) play and to mix you should be half way's there.
This has alway's been my opinion and has been since I understood the set ups 50 years or so ago. "
My above post is no reflection on any players currently on the panel in case anyone start implying that it is."
So how do you differentiate between 2 players both coming into the county panel. How do you find the suitable player.?

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 24/01/2017 13:51:15    1948408

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "
Replying To seanorinn:  "[quote=seanorinn:  "Tom if the clubs stood together and recommenced their stand out players not because of who Dad is or was or Mum for that matter The county would be a far better place. This would be a step in the right direction I can tell you.
I see players come and go some because they could not hack it others because they were not up to what is required and others because they felt it was their way or no way.
Quality has been ignored not by the management but by those that really don't know what a good player is. It's that simple it should not matter what side of the fence you come from once you have the ability to (Within the club set up) play and to mix you should be half way's there.
This has alway's been my opinion and has been since I understood the set ups 50 years or so ago. "
My above post is no reflection on any players currently on the panel in case anyone start implying that it is."
So how do you differentiate between 2 players both coming into the county panel. How do you find the suitable player.?"]So how do you differentiate between 2 players both coming into the county panel. How do you find the suitable player.?
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts:793 - 24/01/2017 13:51:15 1948408

I suppose for starters by observation.
The cream alway's comes to top and they will stand out by their demeanor.

You have I expect seen the selfish player this person is of no value to anyone.

The player that has the ability when in possession of the ball have the ability to be aware of other options when heading into trouble. The player that makes himself available for the carrier by running of the ball ect.

All over the country in development squads a player stands out either by his hight or by the difference by date of birth having the 11 month advantage at minor level is a huge difference BUT do the development coaches allow for this when they coach the answer is a very strong NO all they see is a mature person. Do you know like the cream they soon find their match after they turn 21 the slow developer catches up and very often passes the individual you have been watching for years strange isn't it, just like the cream.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 25/01/2017 10:59:45    1948647

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "
Replying To seanorinn:  "[quote=seanorinn:  "Tom if the clubs stood together and recommenced their stand out players not because of who Dad is or was or Mum for that matter The county would be a far better place. This would be a step in the right direction I can tell you.
I see players come and go some because they could not hack it others because they were not up to what is required and others because they felt it was their way or no way.
Quality has been ignored not by the management but by those that really don't know what a good player is. It's that simple it should not matter what side of the fence you come from once you have the ability to (Within the club set up) play and to mix you should be half way's there.
This has alway's been my opinion and has been since I understood the set ups 50 years or so ago. "
My above post is no reflection on any players currently on the panel in case anyone start implying that it is."
So how do you differentiate between 2 players both coming into the county panel. How do you find the suitable player.?"]So how do you differentiate between 2 players both coming into the county panel. How do you find the suitable player.?
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts:793 - 24/01/2017 13:51:15 1948408
Do you mean for example two center half backs coming into the panel at the same time ???? I just used the position as an option???? Or even full-forwards?? Or are you asking me how to find a suitable player?? I did mention clubs sending in their best player's if they feel they have something to offer the county set up. I would have thought it was every players ambition to represent their county at the top level.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 25/01/2017 11:09:17    1948652

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