Cavan Forum

Tyrone v Cavan - Ulster Semi-Final

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Replying To fredflint:  "If you played a two man full forward line of Johnston and Jack Brady against Tyrone you would never score. How did SJ do inside in league final. I'm afraid you really don't have a clue if you think that's a good idea."
Fredflint maybe you should read the post again.. Not just pick one line out of it.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 20/06/2016 20:56:42    1869909

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Fredflint if we have no inside forward line we won't score just like yesterday. Apart from Givneys 2 goals the other 5 forwards scored 2 points from play between them. Scoring forwards win games just as they did through the league when the ball was let into in wide areas. We are not going to win games with backs having pot shots of the outside of the boot. That was proved yesterday.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 20/06/2016 21:01:04    1869911

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I think Cavan have every chance in two weeks time.
It's alright saying Tyrone are challengers for Sam and the bookies have them around 8/1 to win it.
But so far (if I'm correct here and I think I am) Tyrone have not beaten any of the big four over the last 5 years--Dublin Kerry Donegal or Mayo. So how good are Tyrone or how good can they become ?
I think a good free taker is vital and will be when you get to Croke park in August /September. Have Tyrone got one.
About Cavan I thought they kicked a few bad wides especially in the first half. But they had a lot of luck too and they will have learned a lot Plus it was a big improvement on the Div2 Final.
I'm hoping Donegal win on Sat night as I think we could beat either Cavan or Tyrone. I doubt if Tyrone likes playing against Donegal's defensive system and if you take games between us over the last five years the most points Tyrone scored was 12 and in four meetings I think the goal they got last year in Ballybofey was their only one.
But it's going to be tight as we have four fairly evenly matched teams left and they can all still be there at the quarter final stage

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 20/06/2016 21:25:30    1869926

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Replying To MadgeKing:  "Cavan got absolutely nothing from playing the high ball yesterday."
true. the three goals came from : Martin Reilly's run , ray galligan's attempted point and Ciaran Brady's pass .
I don't believe we got a point out of the high ball in either.
so I'm not sure what all the talk is about .

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 20/06/2016 22:57:15    1869971

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Replying To celt2018:  "Cannot blame the management for high ball tactics,it paid dividends.It is ok for Kerry to use it over the years with Donaghy and for Mayo to use it with A. O'Shea and Donegal to use it with Murphy but not for Cavan to use it.Terry proved by using it that Tyrone are vulnerable which also means they will have to change their team around next day for a change.The high ball may have reaped even more dividend if we had a bit of pace in beside Givney for breaking ball.The place for Killian is midfield on Mattie Donnelly,put big Gearoid out of the centre next day as a wing forward and decide if we play Jack Brady inside or big Michael Argue.Also Jason McLoughlin would be a major help in doing a man marking job on either McCurry,McAllister or O'Neill."
give me an example of when the high ball paid dividends. ie a score for us

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 20/06/2016 23:00:57    1869973

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Replying To Cluichepeil:  "Agree with you and most of the posts.
Don't agree with poster who said Dunne, Gunner etc should have scored! They are backs.
Needed subs sooner. Fierce lucky that last goal was scored.
Was nothing short of insulting to the subs who were bought in late. Several of our regulars shouldn't have started the 2nd half."
well, if the cant score then what are they doing up in front of goals, I mean Killian Brady's miss was from right in front of goal, it was easier to score. not sure what Buchannan has done wrong to be dropped either. why not play him for half an hour in midfield, why not play keating for half an hour, why not give ciaran brady 20 mins or jack Brady, what's the point in flogging players for the full 70 when you have players that are much the same standard on the bench, also Argue,Faulkner,Gerry Smith,Chris Conroy. I really don't get the thinking behind putting lads on in the last minute or injury time. Why doesn't someone ask Terry what that is all about ?

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 20/06/2016 23:10:17    1869977

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Replying To SamOnErrigal:  "I think Cavan have every chance in two weeks time.
It's alright saying Tyrone are challengers for Sam and the bookies have them around 8/1 to win it.
But so far (if I'm correct here and I think I am) Tyrone have not beaten any of the big four over the last 5 years--Dublin Kerry Donegal or Mayo. So how good are Tyrone or how good can they become ?
I think a good free taker is vital and will be when you get to Croke park in August /September. Have Tyrone got one.
About Cavan I thought they kicked a few bad wides especially in the first half. But they had a lot of luck too and they will have learned a lot Plus it was a big improvement on the Div2 Final.
I'm hoping Donegal win on Sat night as I think we could beat either Cavan or Tyrone. I doubt if Tyrone likes playing against Donegal's defensive system and if you take games between us over the last five years the most points Tyrone scored was 12 and in four meetings I think the goal they got last year in Ballybofey was their only one.
But it's going to be tight as we have four fairly evenly matched teams left and they can all still be there at the quarter final stage"
I actually think we played better in the league final than we did yesterday. we scored about 15 or 16 points in the div 2 final. we only hit 10 scores yesterday. It's a long time since Gearoid McKiernan failed to score in a game. all we needed was one from him yesterday or one from play from Johnston but we got neither. Either Gearoid was not 100% fit or he was unwell. He didn't look like the same player . Hopefully he will be back to his best for the replay because at his best he should be running through that Tyrone defence.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 20/06/2016 23:22:39    1869981

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Replying To s goldrick:  "true. the three goals came from : Martin Reilly's run , ray galligan's attempted point and Ciaran Brady's pass .
I don't believe we got a point out of the high ball in either.
so I'm not sure what all the talk is about ."
First off Cavan almost got at least two more goals from the high ball, in one instance the keeper actually caught the ball behind the line before Givney pushed him. That shoulda been a goal but we'll not crib.
All 3 goals were scrappy and came from very close range. This shows that the Tyrone full back line was not in command and for lack of a better word 'dodgy'. The obvious thing to do is keep sending it in. For 3 years I've listened to nothing but moaning about lateral hand passing, even in games we won. Some fans are just never happy. If Jelly/Jack/Keating had been in under Givney we could have won handy

JamsieMac (Cavan) - Posts: 482 - 21/06/2016 03:27:28    1870004

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Having watched the full game back I think Cavan can build on this performance for the replay and will believe they have a decent shout. To my mind we were a match for them for the most part and closed the gap that seemed to be there in the league final. The worry for me was the lack of composure and good decision making when ironically we were ahead in both halves and we have seen this before. In the first half in particular we had Gunners miss, Clarke shooting when he had both Mackey and Murray running off his shoulder into open space close to goal and the same when Moynagh took on a shot with Mackey and Murray again on the overlap on the right in space. McEnroe also shot from far out when he had better options. As McHugh said they were panicky decisions when there were better options but this is fixable. As McHugh also pointed out we should have had a 14 yard free when we were 4 up when 2 Tyrone men jumped with Givney when the ref threw the ball up and there were a couple of soft frees given to them along with gifting them a couple of points (Moynaghs handpass being one). Harte also got a point when I thought Martin Reilly was fouled when he played the ball soccer style on the ground. Of course Tyrone can also point to missed opportunities for them but the idea that Tyrone dominated during Cavans two barren spells is untrue particularly in the first half when it was more a case of us giving them a way back into the game through mistakes and poor decisions.
I agree with a lot of other posters about bringing on the subs earlier. We were flagging in the last 15 minutes and we should have brought on at least Faulkner, Ciaran Brady and Keating with 20 minutes to go when we were leading and in the ascendancy.

breffni47 (Cavan) - Posts: 34 - 21/06/2016 09:24:47    1870018

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Replying To s goldrick:  "give me an example of when the high ball paid dividends. ie a score for us"
I don't think we scored of a high ball but it did pin the Tyrone backs back further and upset their rhythm. However the type of long ball was woeful and no point doing it if you leave the full forward isolated.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 21/06/2016 09:37:21    1870022

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Replying To doratheexplorer:  "I don't think we scored of a high ball but it did pin the Tyrone backs back further and upset their rhythm. However the type of long ball was woeful and no point doing it if you leave the full forward isolated."
A lot to work on for the next day, we need changes made, I think Killian Clarke needs to go back to mark o,Neill, maybe f Flanagan on Mattie Donnelly to stay on him at all times, Keating in instead of Johnston and swap givney and gearoid, gearoid not in any of the games again Tyrone we need him to be, I,d just be afraid we won't try anything different, time to take a chance

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 885 - 21/06/2016 12:17:04    1870128

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Actually thought Murray played well yesterday , capping it by scoring a fine point when badly needed. I'd be interested to hear JonSmiths views on the very late substitutions by the management when some players were clearly out on their feet after an energy sapping game . Do you JonSmith agree with the managements decisions to bring on subs in the 35 minute of the 2nd half??? Stupid question really I suppose .. Of course you agree.. Well I don't and furthermore TH got plenty wrong yesterday but 3 soft goals at the right time covered his management."
No I personally thought subs should have been brought on at 50 minutes to freshen things up. Would that have won us the game? Impossible to say. Overall we were second best on the day, a Cavan win wouldn't have been a fair reflection of the balance of play.

Johnston doesn't have the pace or power necessary against Tyrone, I'd throw in Gerry Smith, he is a lovely footballer and has the pace necessary to contribute to the breaks forward by Cavan. Gearoid has gone two games against Tyrone without offering much, they are just too organised in defence for him to make any inroads.

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 21/06/2016 12:20:02    1870131

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Replying To s goldrick:  "true. the three goals came from : Martin Reilly's run , ray galligan's attempted point and Ciaran Brady's pass .
I don't believe we got a point out of the high ball in either.
so I'm not sure what all the talk is about ."
The high ball threat forced the Tyrone Sweeper to drop back right into the FF line and created some space for us when we did run the ball. Without that threat Tyrone would have not bothered doing that. Cavans tactics on the day were spot on, the problem was the execution by a few players wasnt up to scratch in attack - i.e. a lot of poor misses when on top.

Indeed Tyrone also got the rub of the green from the ref on a few occasions and we also conceded some unbelievably poor scores due to unforced errors. We have more room for improvement than Tyrone in my opinion.

Get McLaughlin fit and back to mark O Neill. Leave Clarke out the field and maybe push Gearoid and Givney into the square. Tyrone knew Johnston would play at half forward and they made sure he spent most of his time running after his man. Need to work on a match up that gets Johnston operating between the 45 and Tyrones goals so he can be off the shoulder of the inside men. Other than that cut out the silly mistakes and hopefully get a fair share of the calls and we can win this replay.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 21/06/2016 15:28:34    1870288

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Replying To fredflint:  "The high ball threat forced the Tyrone Sweeper to drop back right into the FF line and created some space for us when we did run the ball. Without that threat Tyrone would have not bothered doing that. Cavans tactics on the day were spot on, the problem was the execution by a few players wasnt up to scratch in attack - i.e. a lot of poor misses when on top.

Indeed Tyrone also got the rub of the green from the ref on a few occasions and we also conceded some unbelievably poor scores due to unforced errors. We have more room for improvement than Tyrone in my opinion.

Get McLaughlin fit and back to mark O Neill. Leave Clarke out the field and maybe push Gearoid and Givney into the square. Tyrone knew Johnston would play at half forward and they made sure he spent most of his time running after his man. Need to work on a match up that gets Johnston operating between the 45 and Tyrones goals so he can be off the shoulder of the inside men. Other than that cut out the silly mistakes and hopefully get a fair share of the calls and we can win this replay."
Fredflint ... You say we got the tactics spot on then you say we need to work on a match up that gets Johnston operating between the Tyrone goals and the 45 playing of the shoulder of the inside men? Well that didn't happen so we DIDNT get the tactics spot on. You have even pointed this out yourself.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 21/06/2016 17:34:15    1870384

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Replying To SamOnErrigal:  "I think Cavan have every chance in two weeks time.
It's alright saying Tyrone are challengers for Sam and the bookies have them around 8/1 to win it.
But so far (if I'm correct here and I think I am) Tyrone have not beaten any of the big four over the last 5 years--Dublin Kerry Donegal or Mayo. So how good are Tyrone or how good can they become ?
I think a good free taker is vital and will be when you get to Croke park in August /September. Have Tyrone got one.
About Cavan I thought they kicked a few bad wides especially in the first half. But they had a lot of luck too and they will have learned a lot Plus it was a big improvement on the Div2 Final.
I'm hoping Donegal win on Sat night as I think we could beat either Cavan or Tyrone. I doubt if Tyrone likes playing against Donegal's defensive system and if you take games between us over the last five years the most points Tyrone scored was 12 and in four meetings I think the goal they got last year in Ballybofey was their only one.
But it's going to be tight as we have four fairly evenly matched teams left and they can all still be there at the quarter final stage"
No youre not correct about Tyrones record against Dubs, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal so I guess if the rest of your argument is also based on your own opinion and not facts. Off the top of my head I recall Tyrone beating a full Mayo team in Castlebar last year in NFL - but hey don't don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 21/06/2016 18:24:59    1870408

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Fredflint I think your part of management. They are living in denial. Very simple put a fast forward in there along with Givney. Johnson is not that man. Neither is gerard Smith. He's a back . We already have enough backs playing in the forward line. Gerard is a very good back but why do we bring him on as a forward. A monaghan poster put it up about unearthing a forward like mcmanus. This won't happen with current management. They play backs as forwards instead of playing natural forwards.up there. When Conor started with Monaghan it took time. We don't need 2 big men at ff jumping for the one ball. We have a forward there scoring heavily for his club. Leave mackey up in the half forward line . With Givney and Brady inside and see how we get on. I don't get the keating thing. He's not done well since he come back . He's not a natural forward.

kinglarry (Cavan) - Posts: 189 - 21/06/2016 18:27:18    1870410

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Replying To SamOnErrigal:  "I think Cavan have every chance in two weeks time.
It's alright saying Tyrone are challengers for Sam and the bookies have them around 8/1 to win it.
But so far (if I'm correct here and I think I am) Tyrone have not beaten any of the big four over the last 5 years--Dublin Kerry Donegal or Mayo. So how good are Tyrone or how good can they become ?
I think a good free taker is vital and will be when you get to Croke park in August /September. Have Tyrone got one.
About Cavan I thought they kicked a few bad wides especially in the first half. But they had a lot of luck too and they will have learned a lot Plus it was a big improvement on the Div2 Final.
I'm hoping Donegal win on Sat night as I think we could beat either Cavan or Tyrone. I doubt if Tyrone likes playing against Donegal's defensive system and if you take games between us over the last five years the most points Tyrone scored was 12 and in four meetings I think the goal they got last year in Ballybofey was their only one.
But it's going to be tight as we have four fairly evenly matched teams left and they can all still be there at the quarter final stage"
No youre not correct about Tyrones record against Dubs, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal so I guess if the rest of your argument is also based on your own opinion and not facts. Off the top of my head I recall Tyrone beating a full Mayo team in Castlebar last year in NFL - but hey don't don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 21/06/2016 18:30:24    1870413

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Replying To kinglarry:  "Fredflint I think your part of management. They are living in denial. Very simple put a fast forward in there along with Givney. Johnson is not that man. Neither is gerard Smith. He's a back . We already have enough backs playing in the forward line. Gerard is a very good back but why do we bring him on as a forward. A monaghan poster put it up about unearthing a forward like mcmanus. This won't happen with current management. They play backs as forwards instead of playing natural forwards.up there. When Conor started with Monaghan it took time. We don't need 2 big men at ff jumping for the one ball. We have a forward there scoring heavily for his club. Leave mackey up in the half forward line . With Givney and Brady inside and see how we get on. I don't get the keating thing. He's not done well since he come back . He's not a natural forward."
How come you never comment when Cavan win? Can't take guys like you with chips on your shoulder serious. I never even mentioned Gerry smith in my post.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 21/06/2016 19:10:17    1870417

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Fredflint ... You say we got the tactics spot on then you say we need to work on a match up that gets Johnston operating between the Tyrone goals and the 45 playing of the shoulder of the inside men? Well that didn't happen so we DIDNT get the tactics spot on. You have even pointed this out yourself."
Truth is Tyrone also had a plan and elements of it worked. I said we were set up correctly. Mickey Harte said we had our homework done. But no, it all Terry's fault. Your lack of football knowledge is embarrassing, I hope you are not training kids. Your bitterness towards the current management is even more embarrassing.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 21/06/2016 19:12:56    1870419

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That's your clouded view. Must have hit a raw nerve. Cavan did not lose.i am only coming up with a solution. I hope we win the replay I really do . I see the way other teams attack Tyrone with great success. We have the players to do it if we use them. Terry is the man along the line. It took 60 minutes to make the first change and 4 mins to go for the next one. Way to slow . Think it was John Smith that said about Gérard Smith. He is a brilliant footballer and one for the future. I wouldn't be listening to any of mickey hearts comments. He's only playing mind games hoping we play the same way again. I always say judge us on championship Cavan fan..

kinglarry (Cavan) - Posts: 189 - 21/06/2016 19:36:08    1870428

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