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Cavan Seniors 23

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The biggest problem with our underage teams is in their heads how many times over the past 30 years have out minor teams lost close games by a point or two after playing the better football for an hour. Same again with the minors this year and with under 20 in final last year by far the better team than tyrone but did not put them away in the first half and lost by a point and i think tyrone went on to win the all ireland. It is soul destroying and because it happens so often most of these teams are beaten before they even take the field and the opposite is true for the opposing team no matter how bad they are playing they are always confident they will beat cavan. Monaghan use to be the same but they have completely changed the mindset of their underage players in recent years and now fear no one and their minors will probably beat Kerry this weekend.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 22/06/2023 13:57:03    2488420

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Anyone else note the completely unbalanced bias on the WAC Cavan podcast. Firstly, I really enjoy the podcast and have supported it from the start and will continue to do so.
But they would rather blame the man on the moon before criticizing Mickey Graham. They recently criticized Mattie McGlennan for the wasted two years during his helm. Despite the fact he accumulated more points than Graham in division 1 and also brought us straight back to division 1 at the first time of asking .
I heard them having a pop at Ricey this week as opposed to Graham.. it's obviously easier to blame the outsider but I would respect them a lot more if they call it proper and fair ..

asdfg (Cavan) - Posts: 320 - 22/06/2023 15:41:18    2488465

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "I think the game in general has to change. It's glorified Basketball at the moment where keeping possession is the main object.
Players/ Coaches need to start realising winning a 50/50 ball or beating an opponent with skill/ sidestep is far more beneficial than pussyfooting across the back 4 swing for an opening that ain't coming.
How inter county players are not willing/ able to have a go inside the 45 is baffling. Even with the forward mark they still feel the need to kick it backwards rather than have a pot shot and for it to drop short and lose possession.
I'm not just talking about Cavan it's everywhere.
It's frustrating for any decent forward. And it's probably why they're only a handful of decent forwards in the whole country.
One rule I would bring in is any backpass to the keeper must be a footpass
And any pass from the keeper outside the small square must be a footpass too.
That would soon stop the messing around the 13/20m line as it's very easy for a short footpass to go astray ."
Unfortunately football is nothing like basketball, a game where pace, skill, strength and accuracy are to the fore. Once a team gains possession they have 24 seconds to get a shot away , once the ball crosses the half way line it can't be played back and persistent foulers are removed from the game. In basketball the focus is on use of possession not keeping possession, if only football was like basketball we might have a better game.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 257 - 22/06/2023 15:45:36    2488468

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "The biggest problem with our underage teams is in their heads how many times over the past 30 years have out minor teams lost close games by a point or two after playing the better football for an hour. Same again with the minors this year and with under 20 in final last year by far the better team than tyrone but did not put them away in the first half and lost by a point and i think tyrone went on to win the all ireland. It is soul destroying and because it happens so often most of these teams are beaten before they even take the field and the opposite is true for the opposing team no matter how bad they are playing they are always confident they will beat cavan. Monaghan use to be the same but they have completely changed the mindset of their underage players in recent years and now fear no one and their minors will probably beat Kerry this weekend."
Cavan has dropped way behind in quality of coaching of development squads. Also, as far as I am aware these is no development squad for 14 year olds. There should be development squads of all ages from 14 up to u17. Cavan is falling behind again.

Cutler (Cavan) - Posts: 33 - 22/06/2023 15:54:41    2488470

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Replying To cavanman47:  "If I thought Mickey could stay on and bring in a new backroom team, I'd be happy to let him have a go at Division 2 next year. But I just don't see that happening.

Yes they've just been promoted, and I was never too bothered with winning a Tailteann Cup. But the manner of the loss to Armagh is the clincher for me. They were there to be beaten that day and look where they are now vs where we are.

Ulster was wide open this year and we made a paltry attempt on it. Something has to give."
James Burke was new this year as coach. Ryan McMenanim was new last year.

Division 3 was a poor standard this year. Fermanagh got promoted but showed since they are very average, failing to beat Wexford, hammered by Antrim and losing to Laois.

Westmeath and Down were better sides but failed to get momentum under new management in the League. D

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 22/06/2023 16:17:02    2488476

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Replying To aceofspades:  "Unfortunately football is nothing like basketball, a game where pace, skill, strength and accuracy are to the fore. Once a team gains possession they have 24 seconds to get a shot away , once the ball crosses the half way line it can't be played back and persistent foulers are removed from the game. In basketball the focus is on use of possession not keeping possession, if only football was like basketball we might have a better game."
Well let's say it's more like Soccer then except we handle the ball and pass it back to the keeper more than Soccer players do!
And we play it across the back 6.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 22/06/2023 16:49:28    2488482

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Replying To Cutler:  "Cavan has dropped way behind in quality of coaching of development squads. Also, as far as I am aware these is no development squad for 14 year olds. There should be development squads of all ages from 14 up to u17. Cavan is falling behind again."
No need for development squads when you have outside influences calling the shots, parents, club coaches, schools, former players etc., a lot of youngsters couldn't care less anymore about development squads as basically the minor panel for them is picked at U14.You'd also have to ask why two of the best young footballers in last years senior club championship couldn't be bother joining the u20's this year!!

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 257 - 22/06/2023 18:25:32    2488505

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Replying To asdfg:  "Anyone else note the completely unbalanced bias on the WAC Cavan podcast. Firstly, I really enjoy the podcast and have supported it from the start and will continue to do so.
But they would rather blame the man on the moon before criticizing Mickey Graham. They recently criticized Mattie McGlennan for the wasted two years during his helm. Despite the fact he accumulated more points than Graham in division 1 and also brought us straight back to division 1 at the first time of asking .
I heard them having a pop at Ricey this week as opposed to Graham.. it's obviously easier to blame the outsider but I would respect them a lot more if they call it proper and fair .."
Ratings = sponsorship.

Interviews = Ratings.

And Mickey has been generous with his time.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5194 - 22/06/2023 19:19:11    2488514

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Ratings = sponsorship.

Interviews = Ratings.

And Mickey has been generous with his time."
So if you're a talker and give interviews you are not to be questioned or criticised regardless of what type of rubbish football you are overseeing….. that's a new one… He probably thinks he is doing a wonderful job so….!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 23/06/2023 10:13:55    2488579

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "So if you're a talker and give interviews you are not to be questioned or criticised regardless of what type of rubbish football you are overseeing….. that's a new one… He probably thinks he is doing a wonderful job so….!!"
They take that same approach with plenty of the players too.

There's a recently retired player who seemed to be completely immune from any level of criticism. He also happened to be the one player who probably gave the most interviews over the last 4 or 5 years.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5194 - 23/06/2023 10:41:49    2488585

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No posts from Loughduff Lad since the Down game
He must be off Psyching himself up for the 1st round of next years Ulster Championship.!! Hopefully get a dry day and a dry ball that day!!

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 23/06/2023 12:01:32    2488617

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I heard them say Mickey Graham was the best man for the job in the County. But Michael McDermott has won plenty too most recently the Meath Senior Championship.
He went for the Cavan job in the past.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 23/06/2023 12:25:35    2488629

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "No posts from Loughduff Lad since the Down game
He must be off Psyching himself up for the 1st round of next years Ulster Championship.!! Hopefully get a dry day and a dry ball that day!!"
He is no doubt like the rest of us very disappointed with how things turned out both in the Ulster Championship and the Taltainn Cup but less likely to accept where the problems are…. Anyone with a small bit of football knowledge could see Cavan have regressed an awful lot under Graham… Ok he won the covid riddled Ulster Championship but I believe that came from a team that had been competitive in Div1/2 when he took charge but he led them to 3 wasted years in Div 3/4 and now we can be taken out by even moderate opposition…. His time is long up..!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 23/06/2023 13:20:03    2488643

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "I heard them say Mickey Graham was the best man for the job in the County. But Michael McDermott has won plenty too most recently the Meath Senior Championship.
He went for the Cavan job in the past."
Think the style of Football needs to change. We can't keep playing the kinda ***** we been playing. We need to start developing our own style with a mixture of both attacking and defending. At the moment it's a "let's see if we can prise an opening somewhere kinda football. "

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 23/06/2023 13:28:25    2488646

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "Think the style of Football needs to change. We can't keep playing the kinda ***** we been playing. We need to start developing our own style with a mixture of both attacking and defending. At the moment it's a "let's see if we can prise an opening somewhere kinda football. ""
Cavan under Mickey have tried to replicate the Dublin style from Jim Gavin's later years . Possession based style work an opening, patience etc .
The difference is Dublin had the players for that style . They had line breakers all over the field, also forwards who could score from anywhere ie. Dean Rock, Con o Callaghan, Kilkenny etc. This style could ultimately overcome any blanket defense when Dublin were at their best .
The frustration I have with mickey is:
1. Football has evolved even further from 2018/ 19. Teams now have better defensive structures and are able to attack at unbelievable pace ie Derry /down. we have not evolved with the times and persist with this outdated template that we can't even do well.
2. Every game we play recently seems to be the same, stick to the process. We never tailored the game plan for different teams. Ie. Surely , when you play Armagh and down a different approach is needed. Game plans never seem to be tailored and it's pure laziness from a management perspective.
You can get away with that style against Offaly, Tipperary and Longford but better prepared teams will find you out . This is exactly how the last few years have panned out .

asdfg (Cavan) - Posts: 320 - 23/06/2023 14:45:26    2488670

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One moment in the Down game encapsulated all that is wrong with the current Cavan set-up. Down were coming out of defence with the ball, having gotten a short kick-out away. They somehow managed to foul the ball and Cavan were awarded a free. Down defence was not set and their keeper was out of goal. Cavan dithered , did not know what to do, did not take the free quickly, were looking around for instructions or God Knows what. The chance was gone. I think we got a '45 out of it and kicked it wide. They are obviously following instructions and afraid to "give away possession" but surely when an open goal presents itself you have a go.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 23/06/2023 15:30:28    2488689

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Replying To s goldrick:  "One moment in the Down game encapsulated all that is wrong with the current Cavan set-up. Down were coming out of defence with the ball, having gotten a short kick-out away. They somehow managed to foul the ball and Cavan were awarded a free. Down defence was not set and their keeper was out of goal. Cavan dithered , did not know what to do, did not take the free quickly, were looking around for instructions or God Knows what. The chance was gone. I think we got a '45 out of it and kicked it wide. They are obviously following instructions and afraid to "give away possession" but surely when an open goal presents itself you have a go."
You're right there it's the " afraid to give away possession" that has haunted us all year.
Also we definitely not getting the best out of GMC. If used right he still has an important role to play.
He can catch , kick of both feet, lay off and is fairly accurate if left inside the D. Even to use as an impact sub if things were in the melting pot.
I just can't see any benefit of him playing out the field spraying 20 M lateral passes and waiting for a return.
If you look back at our games this year the old 30yr ago plan still exists" if things are not going well take off the corner forward" we are still at that craic.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 23/06/2023 16:08:09    2488697

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Replying To Cutler:  "Cavan has dropped way behind in quality of coaching of development squads. Also, as far as I am aware these is no development squad for 14 year olds. There should be development squads of all ages from 14 up to u17. Cavan is falling behind again."
All the development squads is doing is coaching the football out of talented footballers so that they are programmed to step into zoobie roles with the senior set up the less of them the better and let the lads improve their natrual skill no good spending 4 to 5 years with these development squads learning to handpass the ball side ways and backwards anyone who can lace a pair of football boots is already adept at this skill.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 23/06/2023 16:37:36    2488701

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Replying To s goldrick:  "One moment in the Down game encapsulated all that is wrong with the current Cavan set-up. Down were coming out of defence with the ball, having gotten a short kick-out away. They somehow managed to foul the ball and Cavan were awarded a free. Down defence was not set and their keeper was out of goal. Cavan dithered , did not know what to do, did not take the free quickly, were looking around for instructions or God Knows what. The chance was gone. I think we got a '45 out of it and kicked it wide. They are obviously following instructions and afraid to "give away possession" but surely when an open goal presents itself you have a go."
I agree with you totally…. Fear of giving possession away has taken the whole joy out of both playing and watching the game…. Spoof coaches have the game ruined ….. I say spoof because anyone can set up a team defend with everyone behind the ball and demand that possession is not given away… Remember the dreaded stats man or men are there and will make sure the players don't do anything that will get the unfortunate paying customer out of their seats with excitement….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 23/06/2023 16:39:42    2488703

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "All the development squads is doing is coaching the football out of talented footballers so that they are programmed to step into zoobie roles with the senior set up the less of them the better and let the lads improve their natrual skill no good spending 4 to 5 years with these development squads learning to handpass the ball side ways and backwards anyone who can lace a pair of football boots is already adept at this skill."
I agree …. Development squads are a waste of time and money….. A lot of counties pick these squads and then stick rigidly to them as they go up the age groups all the way to senior level thus missing out on late developing players that may be a lot better… It also takes players away from their clubs and sows a seed of over importance in them that they are actually better than they are and don't need to improve their game as they have the feeling of having made it…. Not much has ever came from these squads that has helped Cavan at senior level…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 24/06/2023 12:47:42    2488789

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