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Cavan Seniors 23

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "Nonsense, McVitty was 100% fit and has been training as normal. Kiernan has also been training and both of them have been heavily involved in in-house games and indeed when they spend 4 days in Galway for their training weekend (where they also played a challenge match).

Management picked the strongest 15 available to them , a lot of them seasoned campaigners, time for the players to start accepting responsibility for what happens on the pitch. They were well able to do it in the 2nd half of the league final, yet they simply didnt show up against Armagh."
McVitty wasn't fit and anyone who knows anything about football could see that by looking at him throughout the game…. miles off where he was during the early part of the league…he was picked in the forward line because he wasn't fit… Kiernan had not enough game time to be started in this match and McLaughlin was doing runs on the back pitch an hour before throw in to try and get himself up to speed.. and he broke down early in the match.. Graham picking players who are not fit shows he is not up to much and as pointed out it's not the first time he's done this in big games… Clueless

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 24/04/2023 11:50:45    2473175

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "McKiernan was in on the square many times, but yet when they decided to kick the ball into him, he was being marked by 3 men.

I suppose it was managements fault for the 16 shots outside the D that went wide, or should the players accept responsibility for that?"
An inter county player should be able to kick a point from outside the D within 40m from the hand.
They can't even kick a 45 without bringing the Keeper up nowadays. I'd be embarrassed as a forward if I had to call the keeper up to kick a 45.
The amount of times GMc was in full forward was minimal. We had no variation with any tactic different from our league performances.
I've great time for Mickey but he needs to surround himself with a backroom that have some tactical knowledge.
Ricey brings nothing. Burke was with Mayo so that tells you enough.
A run in the Tailteann cup against mediocre opposition won't prove nothing. It didn't last year.
Fighting for promotion at a minimum next year will improve us . We need to be up around Div 1/2.
Hammering teams like Wexford, London and Tipperary won't improve us and that's no disrespect to them.
If we want long term improvement we need to be playing at a higher level regularly.
Dropping down the Divisions like we did has set us back no end.
It's going to take time.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 24/04/2023 12:17:39    2473196

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Undropable players cost us again, Oishin Kiernan coming back from injury starts over the inform Tiernan Madden, Jason McLoughlin Coming back from Injury starts over the inform Niall Carolan, Conor Moynagh comes off bench with 10 mins to go and we need to go for it! You could predict 12-14 players that will start 1st championship match next year which shows the problems we have with this management.

BreffniBlue (Cavan) - Posts: 278 - 24/04/2023 12:47:07    2473221

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "An inter county player should be able to kick a point from outside the D within 40m from the hand.
They can't even kick a 45 without bringing the Keeper up nowadays. I'd be embarrassed as a forward if I had to call the keeper up to kick a 45.
The amount of times GMc was in full forward was minimal. We had no variation with any tactic different from our league performances.
I've great time for Mickey but he needs to surround himself with a backroom that have some tactical knowledge.
Ricey brings nothing. Burke was with Mayo so that tells you enough.
A run in the Tailteann cup against mediocre opposition won't prove nothing. It didn't last year.
Fighting for promotion at a minimum next year will improve us . We need to be up around Div 1/2.
Hammering teams like Wexford, London and Tipperary won't improve us and that's no disrespect to them.
If we want long term improvement we need to be playing at a higher level regularly.
Dropping down the Divisions like we did has set us back no end.
It's going to take time."
Agree with you 100%…. We had posters on here and even the great Mickey Graham himself saying dropping down the divisions would have no impact come Championship time…. Well I have news for you.. Since we have been toiling in Div 3/4 we have managed only one championship win ( v. the poorest county team Antrim I have ever seen playing ) in 3 years.. When Mickey Graham took over the team was having regular ding dong battles with Roscommon and Galway for example but he has taken them back so far that we wouldn't have a chance if we played them at the moment… Roscommon and Galway both in Div 1 and Galway contested last year's All Ireland final too…. Where are we under this current Management..? Nowhere

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 24/04/2023 13:32:56    2473242

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Replying To BreffniBlue:  "Undropable players cost us again, Oishin Kiernan coming back from injury starts over the inform Tiernan Madden, Jason McLoughlin Coming back from Injury starts over the inform Niall Carolan, Conor Moynagh comes off bench with 10 mins to go and we need to go for it! You could predict 12-14 players that will start 1st championship match next year which shows the problems we have with this management."
This has to rate as one our worst performances in over a decade. Defense was all at sea. Midfield non existent until Armagh r
gave their midfielders a break by replacing them. Forward play was slow and ponderous. Gmac went backways and sideways. Management hadnt this team up for this. Plus playing Oisin Kiernan and McLaughlin and them not fit or match ready. Doesnt say much for our backroom team that those lads were sent out to play. Mickey clearly has a few favourites in there and it backfired badly. He went as far as bringing on Conor Moynagh. Enough said.. As Jim Royle "would say 'Tailteann Cup my ****

Allrevvedup (Cavan) - Posts: 37 - 24/04/2023 13:58:40    2473262

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Still scratching my head. I said it beforehand that i was worried regarding the first half in croker against Fermanagh and this was basically the same. The tactic of shooting from distance was strange considering a 5-6 degree cold wet evening. The percentages drop drastically. Most of the points we did get just crept over the bar too. We never even tried to break the line and it was over and back until we got 2-3 yards and then have a pot. These shots was often under pressure.

Unfortunately you have to hand it to Armagh in the first half. They were well organized and completely emptied the tank, so much so that i think they were bunched for the second half. Turbit was good but i though newish lads at 6,8 and 9 had massive games for them.

As an aside i think this split season is a load of me swiss. We are destroying pitches and Breffni looked like a mucky patchwork quilt and there were some dead/bad bounces of the ball too. Lights should have come on earlier too. This was not championship, this was an early round of the league.

ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 544 - 24/04/2023 14:55:09    2473302

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With Cavan needing scores who did Mickey Graham turn to only Moynagh…. Why not put in Rian O Neill who showed well in the league or the experienced Martin Reilly who has proven ability to unlock the tightest of defences…? Terrible game management by Mickey Graham… what was Moynagh going to contribute….. it might have made a bit of sense if we were 4/5 points ahead instead of been behind and chasing the game…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 24/04/2023 15:53:44    2473331

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What a strange game on Saturday evening. Went to Breffni Park hoping for a real championship tussle (based on the last few meetings of these teams that was justified), but it sure didn't materialize.

We got a team who didn't know how to win, playing a team who were determined to lose!

The Cavan support were rightly exasperated at the huge number of chances spurned during a period of real dominance in possession, from just after the goal until about 5 minutes to go. Armagh only managed 2 points in this time but took little punishment on the scoreboard themselves as Cavan kicked it anywhere except over the bar. It was noticeable how jittery the Armagh supporters were in the terrace, it seemed they didn't believe the 5 or 6 point lead on the scoreboard was a secure one.

You know, they were probably right because one or two corrected shots would have set Cavan up for a chance of a late win. However, O'Neill's save followed by a wide 45 and 2 more bad efforts saw them home.
I would agree that McKiernan, while he has done more than most for Cavan, needs to be used more sparingly and closer to goal too. He's not the only one who's race is run, Killian Clarke looked very laboured. No shame after 2 long careers. Paddy Lynch was a bright early on but I lost count of his wides- how did the wides tally break down for inside forwards v half forwards and back? Stefan Campbell and Jason Duffy seemed to take 10 steps per solo every time they carried the ball- ref overcompensated for the wet conditions at times I thought.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1121 - 24/04/2023 20:32:50    2473470

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "What a strange game on Saturday evening. Went to Breffni Park hoping for a real championship tussle (based on the last few meetings of these teams that was justified), but it sure didn't materialize.

We got a team who didn't know how to win, playing a team who were determined to lose!

The Cavan support were rightly exasperated at the huge number of chances spurned during a period of real dominance in possession, from just after the goal until about 5 minutes to go. Armagh only managed 2 points in this time but took little punishment on the scoreboard themselves as Cavan kicked it anywhere except over the bar. It was noticeable how jittery the Armagh supporters were in the terrace, it seemed they didn't believe the 5 or 6 point lead on the scoreboard was a secure one.

You know, they were probably right because one or two corrected shots would have set Cavan up for a chance of a late win. However, O'Neill's save followed by a wide 45 and 2 more bad efforts saw them home.
I would agree that McKiernan, while he has done more than most for Cavan, needs to be used more sparingly and closer to goal too. He's not the only one who's race is run, Killian Clarke looked very laboured. No shame after 2 long careers. Paddy Lynch was a bright early on but I lost count of his wides- how did the wides tally break down for inside forwards v half forwards and back? Stefan Campbell and Jason Duffy seemed to take 10 steps per solo every time they carried the ball- ref overcompensated for the wet conditions at times I thought."
Would agree with what you say in general… you are right about Mc Kiernan and Clarke.. The edge of the square is where I have called for Mc Kiernan to be put for the last 2 years.. and Clarke seems to be one of the undroppables in this team..he is struggling for a long time now… More evidence of a totally inept management set up when they can't see this….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 25/04/2023 10:27:25    2473588

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Would agree with what you say in general… you are right about Mc Kiernan and Clarke.. The edge of the square is where I have called for Mc Kiernan to be put for the last 2 years.. and Clarke seems to be one of the undroppables in this team..he is struggling for a long time now… More evidence of a totally inept management set up when they can't see this…."
Mc K has been a great servant and there definitely a roll for him on the edge of the square.
Clarke I could never figure out what position he would benefit the team .
Carolan I feel sorry for . Should have had a starting place last Saturday going by his league performances.
Graham I don't know. Maybe deserves the chance at another promotion but seriously need an alternative game plan as there no way last Saturdays S@@@e will get us any where near promotion.
Personally im not interested in the Tailteann cup. An early exit , let the lads have a Summer and then go back to their clubs . Might be of more benefit .

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 25/04/2023 11:13:05    2473623

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "With Cavan needing scores who did Mickey Graham turn to only Moynagh…. Why not put in Rian O Neill who showed well in the league or the experienced Martin Reilly who has proven ability to unlock the tightest of defences…? Terrible game management by Mickey Graham… what was Moynagh going to contribute….. it might have made a bit of sense if we were 4/5 points ahead instead of been behind and chasing the game…"
Sick looking at Moynagh. Offers absolutely nothing

Cutler (Cavan) - Posts: 33 - 25/04/2023 13:24:26    2473697

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No response from all the posters who were fawning over Mickey Graham and his team selection on Saturday morning…. We are all very disappointed but it's time to voice your opinions and concerns about how this turned out… Apart from an unusual type of an Ulster win ( it was brilliant at an awful time ) there is no doubt we have gone backwards at a serious rate under Micky Graham and his various management teams….. Our style of football is woefully boring and yields nothing when we come up against any half decent opponents….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 25/04/2023 14:36:24    2473732

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "Mc K has been a great servant and there definitely a roll for him on the edge of the square.
Clarke I could never figure out what position he would benefit the team .
Carolan I feel sorry for . Should have had a starting place last Saturday going by his league performances.
Graham I don't know. Maybe deserves the chance at another promotion but seriously need an alternative game plan as there no way last Saturdays S@@@e will get us any where near promotion.
Personally im not interested in the Tailteann cup. An early exit , let the lads have a Summer and then go back to their clubs . Might be of more benefit ."
Mckiernan a bit like Aidan O Shea, his days as a County midfielder probably done. But can still offer a lot in the forwards. Clarke being used in lots of positions probably doesn't help him. Played a good around midfield in the League and in the full back line for Championship.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 25/04/2023 15:02:49    2473743

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In my opinion mickey dosnt know who is best 15 players are , he has loyalty there to the moynagh and the likes of him , I can't understand what he taught he would contribute to the game . conor Smith from killygarry warming up the hole time and would get a few scores for ya. Heard today he will not release players to play club football this week . Surely after what we seen the weekend player need it .

Kickingking123 (Cavan) - Posts: 2 - 25/04/2023 15:13:15    2473750

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Replying To Kickingking123:  "In my opinion mickey dosnt know who is best 15 players are , he has loyalty there to the moynagh and the likes of him , I can't understand what he taught he would contribute to the game . conor Smith from killygarry warming up the hole time and would get a few scores for ya. Heard today he will not release players to play club football this week . Surely after what we seen the weekend player need it ."
Mickey should use the Tailteann cup for players who weren't involved last Saturday. No point in dogging players like GMc or Faulkner or Clarke or anyone around the 30 mark.
Release them back to the clubs or let them have a break.
Beating the Londons or Carlows of this world won't make anybody up but it would give the extended panel game time in recognition for their efforts in training .

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 25/04/2023 15:42:12    2473757

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Would agree with what you say in general… you are right about Mc Kiernan and Clarke.. The edge of the square is where I have called for Mc Kiernan to be put for the last 2 years.. and Clarke seems to be one of the undroppables in this team..he is struggling for a long time now… More evidence of a totally inept management set up when they can't see this…."
Killian Clarke - Can't tackle & Certainly not county standard any more - undroppable it seems

flukey (Cavan) - Posts: 30 - 25/04/2023 15:50:06    2473761

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Mickey far to loyal to certain players and compounds this by leaving them on for far too long when they are off the pace has also become far too conservative and negative when it comes to finals and big matches and shows the opposition team to much respect and sends out his team to keep it very tight early on with the main objective being not to concede a goal so from the outset the team is going out with a negative mindset and on the back foot if other team starts well. Its very hard to switch things around with this attitude and it is preventing the team from having a go. The biggest diaster on saturday was not getting beat but not having a real go at Armagh who are are a very average team and i wont be suprised if Down beat them.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 25/04/2023 15:54:11    2473763

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "No response from all the posters who were fawning over Mickey Graham and his team selection on Saturday morning…. We are all very disappointed but it's time to voice your opinions and concerns about how this turned out… Apart from an unusual type of an Ulster win ( it was brilliant at an awful time ) there is no doubt we have gone backwards at a serious rate under Micky Graham and his various management teams….. Our style of football is woefully boring and yields nothing when we come up against any half decent opponents…."
As I said before, the manager can pick a team, but once they're on the pitch its up to them to perform. We lost to Antrim and Fermanagh a few weeks back, played a terrible 1st half in Croker, but then the players decided to up it a level and win well in the end. Thats down to the players.

At the end of the day, if the players dont perform, there's nothing management can do about it. He has the best players in the County on the panel, picked his strongest 15 based on training, league performance and challenges between the league final the Armagh match. Its not managements fault that the players slowed the game down, didnt make runs, kicked 16 wides, made wrong decisions, we are talking about senior inter county footballers making the same silly errors and decisions week in and week out.

Graham could decide to walk this year and then what, bring in another manager to manage same group of players. But be careful what you wish for. Remember the black death and our abysmal record in the Championship under a certain you know who. Graham We go to an Ulster Final in 2019, the first appearance since 2001, won an Ulster Final in 2020, our first title in 30 years and the first time Cavan got to back to back Ulster Finals since the 60s.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 25/04/2023 15:56:07    2473764

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "As I said before, the manager can pick a team, but once they're on the pitch its up to them to perform. We lost to Antrim and Fermanagh a few weeks back, played a terrible 1st half in Croker, but then the players decided to up it a level and win well in the end. Thats down to the players.

At the end of the day, if the players dont perform, there's nothing management can do about it. He has the best players in the County on the panel, picked his strongest 15 based on training, league performance and challenges between the league final the Armagh match. Its not managements fault that the players slowed the game down, didnt make runs, kicked 16 wides, made wrong decisions, we are talking about senior inter county footballers making the same silly errors and decisions week in and week out.

Graham could decide to walk this year and then what, bring in another manager to manage same group of players. But be careful what you wish for. Remember the black death and our abysmal record in the Championship under a certain you know who. Graham We go to an Ulster Final in 2019, the first appearance since 2001, won an Ulster Final in 2020, our first title in 30 years and the first time Cavan got to back to back Ulster Finals since the 60s."
If as you say they are making the same silly mistakes all the time then why is Mickey Graham picking them…? He played Mc Vitty and Mc Laughlin who were clearly not fit… that is a manager who is clueless… We are loosing the game and he brings on Moynagh who never does anything only make a slow game slower … These are all managers calls that ultimately affect the outcome of games…. He has surrounded himself with 20 of a back room team… What on earth are they all doing and how can they stand over a pathetic display like was seen last Saturday… You talk about the Black Death type of football…. you don't honestly believe what Graham and his crew are serving up is much different…? It is truly depressing stuff to watch

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 25/04/2023 16:40:07    2473784

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "As I said before, the manager can pick a team, but once they're on the pitch its up to them to perform. We lost to Antrim and Fermanagh a few weeks back, played a terrible 1st half in Croker, but then the players decided to up it a level and win well in the end. Thats down to the players.

At the end of the day, if the players dont perform, there's nothing management can do about it. He has the best players in the County on the panel, picked his strongest 15 based on training, league performance and challenges between the league final the Armagh match. Its not managements fault that the players slowed the game down, didnt make runs, kicked 16 wides, made wrong decisions, we are talking about senior inter county footballers making the same silly errors and decisions week in and week out.

Graham could decide to walk this year and then what, bring in another manager to manage same group of players. But be careful what you wish for. Remember the black death and our abysmal record in the Championship under a certain you know who. Graham We go to an Ulster Final in 2019, the first appearance since 2001, won an Ulster Final in 2020, our first title in 30 years and the first time Cavan got to back to back Ulster Finals since the 60s."
Agree to an extent but if things are not going well you have to change it. Why not bring someone like Martin Reilly a wise old head into the forwards mid way through the 2nd half?
Surely having a team fired up is part of management?
Look at Waterford hurlers against lLimerick. Trailing the whole game but never gave up. Poor shooting cost them.
But Davy Fitz had them fired up. They were beaten but had a go.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 25/04/2023 16:51:56    2473792

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