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On the first 45, I maybe think this was a bit of over confidence. We were flying at that stage, and maybe they thought to give the placed balls to Lynch to see how he went. I think it's just out of his range, and I suppose they were seeing how he goes. Does need to be Galligan though, as he showed with the one he scored. Lynch will likely take them in years to come as he develops further and gets more power into his shot.
Agree it wasn't a penalty either, looked outside the box for me. They even showed the replay of it in the stadium! And did the ref watch the replay to give that 45 he overturned the umpire on? The missed goals needs to be addressed alright. Their keeper did well, but we took the poor option every time. We struck them as waist height, easy saving height for a keeper. Could have rolled them low (a la Jayo Reilly) or even took a step or bounce past the keeper when he committed. We've seen lots of those type of goals recently. Seem to be going for the good looking goals rather than just getting the ball to the net.
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 20/06/2022 09:53:53
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "On the first 45, I maybe think this was a bit of over confidence. We were flying at that stage, and maybe they thought to give the placed balls to Lynch to see how he went. I think it's just out of his range, and I suppose they were seeing how he goes. Does need to be Galligan though, as he showed with the one he scored. Lynch will likely take them in years to come as he develops further and gets more power into his shot.
Agree it wasn't a penalty either, looked outside the box for me. They even showed the replay of it in the stadium! And did the ref watch the replay to give that 45 he overturned the umpire on? The missed goals needs to be addressed alright. Their keeper did well, but we took the poor option every time. We struck them as waist height, easy saving height for a keeper. Could have rolled them low (a la Jayo Reilly) or even took a step or bounce past the keeper when he committed. We've seen lots of those type of goals recently. Seem to be going for the good looking goals rather than just getting the ball to the net." He kicked one in the warm up, on the 45, straight in front, and it sailed over. So definitely looks like it was planned from the outset.
Maybe it's a case of get him on the scoreboard ASAP and he might shoot the lights out then.
I don't agree with it, simply because Ray is so good.
Agree on the goal chances. Strangely, the only one that was hit low was the one that should've been fisted over the bar. We were 3 points up with about 3 mins to go when T Galligan missed that one. The insurance point was the option to take then.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5194 - 20/06/2022 11:12:08
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One thing I'd add. .
We should've put far more pressure on the Sligo kickout. We have huge men around the middle third.
Possibly something held back for the final??
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5194 - 20/06/2022 11:18:23
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Replying To cavanman47: "He kicked one in the warm up, on the 45, straight in front, and it sailed over. So definitely looks like it was planned from the outset.
Maybe it's a case of get him on the scoreboard ASAP and he might shoot the lights out then.
I don't agree with it, simply because Ray is so good.
Agree on the goal chances. Strangely, the only one that was hit low was the one that should've been fisted over the bar. We were 3 points up with about 3 mins to go when T Galligan missed that one. The insurance point was the option to take then." Yeah that's likely alright. He has a lot to learn. Kicking in th3 warm up is very different when the adrenaline is flowing, and the legs could be a bit heavier after initial exertions at the start of the game. Need to account for those imperceptible reasons. That's why Galligan is so good when he comes up, he's seen that time and again and knows how to deal with them. Lynch needs to be kept with though, he has the talent to kick these, just need to bring him into it gently.
Aye indeed. He went to place that one in the bottom corner, but could have done with a point then. The others could have been finished better though. Any other day we'd have had scored a few of those. We split them open very well, so the chances are being created.
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 20/06/2022 11:22:12
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Yeah that's likely alright. He has a lot to learn. Kicking in th3 warm up is very different when the adrenaline is flowing, and the legs could be a bit heavier after initial exertions at the start of the game. Need to account for those imperceptible reasons. That's why Galligan is so good when he comes up, he's seen that time and again and knows how to deal with them. Lynch needs to be kept with though, he has the talent to kick these, just need to bring him into it gently.
Aye indeed. He went to place that one in the bottom corner, but could have done with a point then. The others could have been finished better though. Any other day we'd have had scored a few of those. We split them open very well, so the chances are being created." We create a lot of goal chances in every game but convert very few…. It's a pity non of the chances fell to Paddy Lynch as I'm sure he would have bagged 1/2…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 20/06/2022 12:46:33
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A great win for the Seniors yesterday and another final for Mickey, surely, he has to down as one of Cavan's best managers in the modern era. Granted, the team didn't perform as well as was expected, but nevertheless, its a sign of a good team when they win whilst not playing to their full potential. Westmeath will be strong opposition, but if Cavan play to their potential, I think we will win. In fairness, Sligo put it up to us, but they played at full tilt and gave it their all, but never did I think the game was going to slip away from us - I always felt that we could lift it a gear or two if required.
I'm reading all this nonsense about division four and division three, we were in a whisper of beating Donegal, and its a game that we let slip, I think if we played them again, we'd beat them, but no point in living in the past. Mickey has brought through some very good young players and whislt the likes of Martin and Gearoid are getting older, there's very good replacements coming through. There's seems to be some good young players coming through in the u20s, the minors have some excellent players also, and serious credit must be given to the work going on in the underage academy squads, I've been to some of the u14, u15 and u16 matches recently, and we have some fantastic talent coming on, and no better man than the current manager to foster that talent.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 20/06/2022 12:59:15
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Replying To cavanblueman: "A great win for the Seniors yesterday and another final for Mickey, surely, he has to down as one of Cavan's best managers in the modern era. Granted, the team didn't perform as well as was expected, but nevertheless, its a sign of a good team when they win whilst not playing to their full potential. Westmeath will be strong opposition, but if Cavan play to their potential, I think we will win. In fairness, Sligo put it up to us, but they played at full tilt and gave it their all, but never did I think the game was going to slip away from us - I always felt that we could lift it a gear or two if required.
I'm reading all this nonsense about division four and division three, we were in a whisper of beating Donegal, and its a game that we let slip, I think if we played them again, we'd beat them, but no point in living in the past. Mickey has brought through some very good young players and whislt the likes of Martin and Gearoid are getting older, there's very good replacements coming through. There's seems to be some good young players coming through in the u20s, the minors have some excellent players also, and serious credit must be given to the work going on in the underage academy squads, I've been to some of the u14, u15 and u16 matches recently, and we have some fantastic talent coming on, and no better man than the current manager to foster that talent." Was talking to quite a few people after the match and most were of the view that Cavan are going backwards….. While I wouldn't totally agree with that view I see very little evidence of much improvement over the last 2/3 years…. In all fairness it wouldn't take too much managing for Cavan to have won the games this year to date…. I know you can only beat what's in front of you but we got lucky in the League Final v Tipperary and even yesterday Sligo had a host of missed chances and could easily have won… We lost our last match to a team above our level and it will be interesting to see how we get on with Westmeath as they are no doubt the best team we will have played this season after Donegal…. Our brilliant manager stood the whole 70 minutes while Sligo got away with taking short kick outs and then working numerous scoring opportunities from getting easy possession…the few times we pushed up and forced the keeper to go long we won the ball back nearly all the time… He might pick this up if he watches the game back as he seems to missed it yesterday… and he watched Brady hobbling past him twice without sending the physio in to see the problem… we were virtually down to 14 players on 2/3 occasions… and he must get someone to fill the number 6 jersey……!!!!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 20/06/2022 13:30:52
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "We create a lot of goal chances in every game but convert very few…. It's a pity non of the chances fell to Paddy Lynch as I'm sure he would have bagged 1/2…" Generally the one or two we do convert is enough. Like I do think we coast home if we get that chance before half time. Then other goals may come. Luckily our point scoring was top notch. 20 points in Croker is no mean feat, but we do need to score goals. Westmeath let Offaly in, so there will be chances again in 3 weeks time
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 20/06/2022 13:51:22
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Was talking to quite a few people after the match and most were of the view that Cavan are going backwards….. While I wouldn't totally agree with that view I see very little evidence of much improvement over the last 2/3 years…. In all fairness it wouldn't take too much managing for Cavan to have won the games this year to date…. I know you can only beat what's in front of you but we got lucky in the League Final v Tipperary and even yesterday Sligo had a host of missed chances and could easily have won… We lost our last match to a team above our level and it will be interesting to see how we get on with Westmeath as they are no doubt the best team we will have played this season after Donegal…. Our brilliant manager stood the whole 70 minutes while Sligo got away with taking short kick outs and then working numerous scoring opportunities from getting easy possession…the few times we pushed up and forced the keeper to go long we won the ball back nearly all the time… He might pick this up if he watches the game back as he seems to missed it yesterday… and he watched Brady hobbling past him twice without sending the physio in to see the problem… we were virtually down to 14 players on 2/3 occasions… and he must get someone to fill the number 6 jersey……!!!!" Don't think they are going backwards, at times they are playing at a level that's higher than 2/3 years ago, first half against Donegal was the best football I've seen Cavan play in nearly 50 years of going to see them play. Beating your Antrims, Down, Fermanaghs and Sligos like we have done is a sign of greater consistency which we have struggled with. Better squad depth too - just have to use them more, thought Cormac O Reilly would have been a better option to come into the forward line in the second half. Agree about No 6, Holla is a bit of a way yet to being back to his marauding best at 6 and in the meantime we are soft down the middle. I'm hoping we kept a little back yesterday and tactically played more open so that Westmeath will be guessing a bit. Mind you they could be doing the same.
BreffniGael (Cavan) - Posts: 46 - 20/06/2022 14:06:36
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Was talking to quite a few people after the match and most were of the view that Cavan are going backwards….. While I wouldn't totally agree with that view I see very little evidence of much improvement over the last 2/3 years…. In all fairness it wouldn't take too much managing for Cavan to have won the games this year to date…. I know you can only beat what's in front of you but we got lucky in the League Final v Tipperary and even yesterday Sligo had a host of missed chances and could easily have won… We lost our last match to a team above our level and it will be interesting to see how we get on with Westmeath as they are no doubt the best team we will have played this season after Donegal…. Our brilliant manager stood the whole 70 minutes while Sligo got away with taking short kick outs and then working numerous scoring opportunities from getting easy possession…the few times we pushed up and forced the keeper to go long we won the ball back nearly all the time… He might pick this up if he watches the game back as he seems to missed it yesterday… and he watched Brady hobbling past him twice without sending the physio in to see the problem… we were virtually down to 14 players on 2/3 occasions… and he must get someone to fill the number 6 jersey……!!!!" How well you managed to find the ones with the negative views. Birds of a feather? Wasn't my reading of the crowd at all, and the ones I spoke to. Sure, we played within ourselves a bit, probably 15 to 20% off where we can play, while Sligo seemed to be playing at their top end. We won despite not hitting top gear, and missing goal chances. But I certainly don't know anyone who thinks we're going backwards. A sign of a team to win while not at your best. Seeing the likes of Lynch and Madden, Conor Brady, Oisin Brady. Carolan too. There's youth being blooded, and there's a lot to see going forward, that they can be the spine of the team for the next decade. We beat a team like Fermanagh well than gave us problems last number of years. Really don't know who you are talking to...
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 20/06/2022 14:15:57
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Was talking to quite a few people after the match and most were of the view that Cavan are going backwards….. While I wouldn't totally agree with that view I see very little evidence of much improvement over the last 2/3 years…. In all fairness it wouldn't take too much managing for Cavan to have won the games this year to date…. I know you can only beat what's in front of you but we got lucky in the League Final v Tipperary and even yesterday Sligo had a host of missed chances and could easily have won… We lost our last match to a team above our level and it will be interesting to see how we get on with Westmeath as they are no doubt the best team we will have played this season after Donegal…. Our brilliant manager stood the whole 70 minutes while Sligo got away with taking short kick outs and then working numerous scoring opportunities from getting easy possession…the few times we pushed up and forced the keeper to go long we won the ball back nearly all the time… He might pick this up if he watches the game back as he seems to missed it yesterday… and he watched Brady hobbling past him twice without sending the physio in to see the problem… we were virtually down to 14 players on 2/3 occasions… and he must get someone to fill the number 6 jersey……!!!!" Killian Clarke's best position is 6.
He is also our best centre half back.
The problem yesterday is he was lined out at midfield.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5194 - 20/06/2022 14:43:44
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Positives first I thought the first game was a great contest and a great advertisement for the new competition and shows that when teams of similar standard play each other alot of the negative elements ie multiple sweepers and backward handpassing are out the window. There are only three teams playing this muck now Donegal Derry ( thanks to mcguiness and his side kick ) and Mickey hartes louth. You had two teams here who were in division 4 of the league and the standard of point taking and attacking play was way better than what some on here thinks was great football in the eighties and nintees.
Cavan are division 2 top half level when it comes to attacking football apart from their attempts at scoring goals which was the worst of any team in the four league divisions and still has not been rectified. Even Sligo yesterday were not content with taking a point if there was a half chance of a goal. This is killing us as we went from total domination 6 points up to a tight contest when they scored their penalty which was incorrectly awarded but made a great contest of the game.
We have gone to a division 4 bottom half when it comes to defending. At the moment we have only 1-2 defenders who can defend. Faulkner is no longer a tight marker and should be moved out to centre back. killian Clarke was never a defender not physical or cynical enough may get away with him at midfield. This has only become more apparent when we have less lads dropping back and sweeping up in front of our defence.
I was suprised at Westmeaths attack even though offaly defense was non existant. you could see them scoring 5 to 6 goals against us if they got the chances that sligo got yesterday.
I feel the final will be much more cagey affair Moynagh will probably come in as a sweeper and Cavan look much more secure with him organising the defence. We need to reduce the amount of goal chances we conceede each game and take a few of our goal chances or Westmeath could easily cause an upset in the final
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 20/06/2022 14:50:13
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Some of the teams in the All Ireland quarter finals would have done serious damage against that Cavan defence yesterday. Obviously Cavan aren't playing in the All Ireland serie s but if they haven't aspirations of playing at that level next year the defence needs to tigten up
Ronan O Toole is very good at centre forward for westmeath. Heslin and luke loughlin are very good indeed . Westmeath have been through the divisions like Cavan , they leak scores also but will probaly be more cagey in the final
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 20/06/2022 15:23:31
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "How well you managed to find the ones with the negative views. Birds of a feather? Wasn't my reading of the crowd at all, and the ones I spoke to. Sure, we played within ourselves a bit, probably 15 to 20% off where we can play, while Sligo seemed to be playing at their top end. We won despite not hitting top gear, and missing goal chances. But I certainly don't know anyone who thinks we're going backwards. A sign of a team to win while not at your best. Seeing the likes of Lynch and Madden, Conor Brady, Oisin Brady. Carolan too. There's youth being blooded, and there's a lot to see going forward, that they can be the spine of the team for the next decade. We beat a team like Fermanagh well than gave us problems last number of years. Really don't know who you are talking to..." As I said I wasn't in total agreement but our results and performances this year can't be taken as any great progress really…. We will see how we get on with Westmeath… A victory there would be a sign of progress in my view
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 20/06/2022 16:02:18
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Replying To FoolsGold: "Some of the teams in the All Ireland quarter finals would have done serious damage against that Cavan defence yesterday. Obviously Cavan aren't playing in the All Ireland serie s but if they haven't aspirations of playing at that level next year the defence needs to tigten up
Ronan O Toole is very good at centre forward for westmeath. Heslin and luke loughlin are very good indeed . Westmeath have been through the divisions like Cavan , they leak scores also but will probaly be more cagey in the final" Agree 100%. Defence is a shambles. We just can't seem to handle a big full forward. Even a Div 4 full forward. If we can solve that problem we are going forward. If we don't we are undoing all the good outfield work. Really can't see what Ricey has add to our set up. Johnston seem s to have added a bit of structure to our forwards and shooting has improved 100%. London, Tipperary and Donegal and now Sligo full forwards has caused us major problems and there don't seem to be an ounce of improvement there.
Heslin next, and he's a class act.
Just going to be a shoot out with Westmeath because both defensives are rubbish.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 20/06/2022 17:46:24
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Dont know what foreverblue is looking at but i suppose when you are relying on the highlights you wont get the full picture. if anyone cant see that this Cavan team has produced the best football ever from any cavan team they are blinkered or have some other agenda going on. The performance for the entire match in the ulster final in 2020 against 16 man Donegal will never be surpassed. The performance against Monaghan and Down in the second half when our head was on the block was heroic. The football produced in the first half against Donega lthis year was even better.
Our problem is that we dont score our goal chances and this is a mindset problem we are happy enough with a point and dont go for the juglar often enough and only have one natural finisher on the team and the opposition have figured this out and he is now a marked man.
The other problem we have now is that as we transition from a defensive set up to more attack minded team and thanfully this is the way most teams are now going this has showed up major defeciencies in our defensive play with very few of our defenders able to man mark and they are been shown up by lack of sweepers, It is not their fault as the art of defending has almost disappeared with all the sweepers that have been in place. It is a learning process and will take time to adapt.
Dont be blinkered by us dropping to division 4 which was due to very poor attitude and freak results. This Cavan team have given us more great days out than we have had in the past 30 years so i dont know what your problem is with the present setup and management.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 20/06/2022 20:09:58
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Replying To breffnibluewhite: "Positives first I thought the first game was a great contest and a great advertisement for the new competition and shows that when teams of similar standard play each other alot of the negative elements ie multiple sweepers and backward handpassing are out the window. There are only three teams playing this muck now Donegal Derry ( thanks to mcguiness and his side kick ) and Mickey hartes louth. You had two teams here who were in division 4 of the league and the standard of point taking and attacking play was way better than what some on here thinks was great football in the eighties and nintees.
Cavan are division 2 top half level when it comes to attacking football apart from their attempts at scoring goals which was the worst of any team in the four league divisions and still has not been rectified. Even Sligo yesterday were not content with taking a point if there was a half chance of a goal. This is killing us as we went from total domination 6 points up to a tight contest when they scored their penalty which was incorrectly awarded but made a great contest of the game.
We have gone to a division 4 bottom half when it comes to defending. At the moment we have only 1-2 defenders who can defend. Faulkner is no longer a tight marker and should be moved out to centre back. killian Clarke was never a defender not physical or cynical enough may get away with him at midfield. This has only become more apparent when we have less lads dropping back and sweeping up in front of our defence.
I was suprised at Westmeaths attack even though offaly defense was non existant. you could see them scoring 5 to 6 goals against us if they got the chances that sligo got yesterday.
I feel the final will be much more cagey affair Moynagh will probably come in as a sweeper and Cavan look much more secure with him organising the defence. We need to reduce the amount of goal chances we conceede each game and take a few of our goal chances or Westmeath could easily cause an upset in the final" So if Faulkner and Clarke are not good enough who do you propose putting in their positions?
I dont agree with your points. The issue was how Cavan set up, we played man on man with no sweeper and pushed up. However the problem was our press was very poor and Sligo were able to work short kick outs. Then our defending against their transition was also poor which left our FB line very isolated. Against any half decent forward with 40m of space around them you are going to be in trouble. My assessment is we attacked very well (bar some very poor goals missed) but our press needs serious work as we would've hammered Sligo if we forced them to go long on kick outs. I imagine a more cautious approach will be employed in the final.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 21/06/2022 07:21:03
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Replying To breffnibluewhite: "Dont know what foreverblue is looking at but i suppose when you are relying on the highlights you wont get the full picture. if anyone cant see that this Cavan team has produced the best football ever from any cavan team they are blinkered or have some other agenda going on. The performance for the entire match in the ulster final in 2020 against 16 man Donegal will never be surpassed. The performance against Monaghan and Down in the second half when our head was on the block was heroic. The football produced in the first half against Donega lthis year was even better.
Our problem is that we dont score our goal chances and this is a mindset problem we are happy enough with a point and dont go for the juglar often enough and only have one natural finisher on the team and the opposition have figured this out and he is now a marked man.
The other problem we have now is that as we transition from a defensive set up to more attack minded team and thanfully this is the way most teams are now going this has showed up major defeciencies in our defensive play with very few of our defenders able to man mark and they are been shown up by lack of sweepers, It is not their fault as the art of defending has almost disappeared with all the sweepers that have been in place. It is a learning process and will take time to adapt.
Dont be blinkered by us dropping to division 4 which was due to very poor attitude and freak results. This Cavan team have given us more great days out than we have had in the past 30 years so i dont know what your problem is with the present setup and management." What are you smoking…? You keep harping back to the 2020 Ulster final as an example of a great performance… Jeasus if we have to go back that far then we are in trouble…. What freak results sent us from Div 1 to 4 in succession… Our wins against Monaghan and particularly Down were the only freak results we had in the last few years…. This Management team ( it's had tweaks ) would not have survived 3 relegations anywhere else but for our lucky run of results that got us into the 2020 Ulster final ( which was won on merit on the day )… You seem to have forgotten the team from 1995 to 2005 ( only on the bandwagon lately I'd say ) that contested 3 Ulster finals ( 1 win ) and played in a Div 1 league final…They never brought embarrassment to the county by dropping all the way down to basement football …. Best days out in 30 years my hat… playing games against the rubbish of the Country….!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 21/06/2022 10:21:14
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "What are you smoking…? You keep harping back to the 2020 Ulster final as an example of a great performance… Jeasus if we have to go back that far then we are in trouble…. What freak results sent us from Div 1 to 4 in succession… Our wins against Monaghan and particularly Down were the only freak results we had in the last few years…. This Management team ( it's had tweaks ) would not have survived 3 relegations anywhere else but for our lucky run of results that got us into the 2020 Ulster final ( which was won on merit on the day )… You seem to have forgotten the team from 1995 to 2005 ( only on the bandwagon lately I'd say ) that contested 3 Ulster finals ( 1 win ) and played in a Div 1 league final…They never brought embarrassment to the county by dropping all the way down to basement football …. Best days out in 30 years my hat… playing games against the rubbish of the Country….!" Again showing your blinkered vision The ulster final of 2020 was the complete performance down to 14 men for large parts of the game against 16 man Donegal and still came out on top. The 1997 final was a good performance but we also had the rub of the green on that day a wide given as a point another point scored after a double hop and banty failing to give derry a definite free in on the last play. You were probably in the pram at that time where as now you are constantly throwing your toys out of the same pram.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 21/06/2022 11:18:46
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "What are you smoking…? You keep harping back to the 2020 Ulster final as an example of a great performance… Jeasus if we have to go back that far then we are in trouble…. What freak results sent us from Div 1 to 4 in succession… Our wins against Monaghan and particularly Down were the only freak results we had in the last few years…. This Management team ( it's had tweaks ) would not have survived 3 relegations anywhere else but for our lucky run of results that got us into the 2020 Ulster final ( which was won on merit on the day )… You seem to have forgotten the team from 1995 to 2005 ( only on the bandwagon lately I'd say ) that contested 3 Ulster finals ( 1 win ) and played in a Div 1 league final…They never brought embarrassment to the county by dropping all the way down to basement football …. Best days out in 30 years my hat… playing games against the rubbish of the Country….!" you obviously want a new manager who would you recommend with your superior knowledge of the game.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 21/06/2022 11:29:19
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