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Cavan Forum

Cavan Seniors 2022

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "By thy way, I should add that I do think we are singing off the sane hymn sheet, once we do get to championship.

And I'd hazard caution re Monaghan. I think they could do with an odd relegation here and there to develop. I actually don't think hanging on every year in Div 1 is overall good for them. I feel they're close to a drop off a cliff (despite how yesterday went for them) next few years when the older players move on. To be fair, they won Ulster in 2013 from Div 3, but overall bar an All Ireland Semi in 2018, what has being in Division 1 meant for them the last 6 years? Not much if we're honest. You'd expect a Div 1 mainstay to have a better Championship record than that. They peak too early for me as they try to stay in Division 1. I think there's a middle ground somewhere between Cavan and Monaghan to reach, where you're decent in League, but ready and fully firing for Championship."
Not so sure about your views on Monaghan.

They won Ulster in 2013, made the final in 2014 which proved 2013 was no one off, and then won it again in 2015. Three finals in a row winning two of them. That's seriously impressive for a small county. That team will be remembered as a great team, because they backed up their title with another one shortly after. That's what great teams do. All the while managing to stay in the top division. They also made the Ulster final last year and gave Tyrone their hardest game of the year.

They're far from finished yet as they have a strong underage scene. Monaghan are an example of how a small county can best utilise limited resources, and in fact, we could learn a lot from them, as much as it pains me to say it, but it's true.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 28/03/2022 20:46:07    2407888

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "By thy way, I should add that I do think we are singing off the sane hymn sheet, once we do get to championship.

And I'd hazard caution re Monaghan. I think they could do with an odd relegation here and there to develop. I actually don't think hanging on every year in Div 1 is overall good for them. I feel they're close to a drop off a cliff (despite how yesterday went for them) next few years when the older players move on. To be fair, they won Ulster in 2013 from Div 3, but overall bar an All Ireland Semi in 2018, what has being in Division 1 meant for them the last 6 years? Not much if we're honest. You'd expect a Div 1 mainstay to have a better Championship record than that. They peak too early for me as they try to stay in Division 1. I think there's a middle ground somewhere between Cavan and Monaghan to reach, where you're decent in League, but ready and fully firing for Championship."
Monaghan are decent in the league this past 6 years. When they needed a result yesterday to stay up they got it. What more can they do.
When we were in Div1, And needed a result to stay up we didn't get it.
Nor did we get it when needing a result in Div 2 to stay up.
Nor did we get a result to stay up in Div 3 either.
We are a long way behind Monaghan . They can grind out a result when needed. We can't .
We have no forward in McManus class even though he's at the end of his career.
Nobody to touch Jack McCarton on his day either.
You cannot compare us to the consistency of any of the Div 1 teams .
Your deluded Loughduff lad. What you going to talk about if Antrim beat us? McKenna cup?

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 28/03/2022 20:51:53    2407897

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "By thy way, I should add that I do think we are singing off the sane hymn sheet, once we do get to championship.

And I'd hazard caution re Monaghan. I think they could do with an odd relegation here and there to develop. I actually don't think hanging on every year in Div 1 is overall good for them. I feel they're close to a drop off a cliff (despite how yesterday went for them) next few years when the older players move on. To be fair, they won Ulster in 2013 from Div 3, but overall bar an All Ireland Semi in 2018, what has being in Division 1 meant for them the last 6 years? Not much if we're honest. You'd expect a Div 1 mainstay to have a better Championship record than that. They peak too early for me as they try to stay in Division 1. I think there's a middle ground somewhere between Cavan and Monaghan to reach, where you're decent in League, but ready and fully firing for Championship."
Monaghan have won two ulsters in the past 10 years and i think they have lost three finals which is brilliant going from a county there size and far from worrying about them we should try and emulate them. There achievement in staying in division one for the past eight or nine years is some going. They were worring about beating Dublin this weekend and we were worried about beating Waterford so it not hard to see who is in the better position.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 519 - 28/03/2022 21:48:13    2407911

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Did hear a bit of injury news though. Marty, Ciaran Holla, and Conor Brady are due to be fit and available for Antrim. This weekend looks to come too soon for them. Oisin Kiernan however is a big loss. He apparently tore his hamstring badly and is out for a while. He's a huge loss for us. We miss him a lot when he's not out there.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 07:38:26    2407918

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "By thy way, I should add that I do think we are singing off the sane hymn sheet, once we do get to championship.

And I'd hazard caution re Monaghan. I think they could do with an odd relegation here and there to develop. I actually don't think hanging on every year in Div 1 is overall good for them. I feel they're close to a drop off a cliff (despite how yesterday went for them) next few years when the older players move on. To be fair, they won Ulster in 2013 from Div 3, but overall bar an All Ireland Semi in 2018, what has being in Division 1 meant for them the last 6 years? Not much if we're honest. You'd expect a Div 1 mainstay to have a better Championship record than that. They peak too early for me as they try to stay in Division 1. I think there's a middle ground somewhere between Cavan and Monaghan to reach, where you're decent in League, but ready and fully firing for Championship."
Well they were very unlucky not to beat Tyrone in the Ulster Final last year…. Playing 1st division football has done them no harm… I would certainly rather be playing the Kerry's and Dublins of this world on a regular basis than mucking around playing games with Waterford and London… That's where we should aim to be….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 4243 - 29/03/2022 07:42:23    2407919

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I knew my Monaghan views would get the above reaction. But look logically. Since 2016 year on year they have lost to Donegal, Down, Fermanagh, Cavan, Cavan, Tyrone in Ulster. And sure, they've reached an All Ireland semi in 2018 and an Ulster final in 2021. But my point is, this isn't a great return for 6 years in Division 1. We've reached 2 Ulster final (winning 1) and an All Ireland semi in half that time, in years we were outside Division 1. All I'm saying is that the answer is somewhere likely between the two, if you read my post again. Clinging on to Division 1 hasn't been all that for them, all I'm saying is an odd relation can work for them

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 09:45:04    2407945

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "Not so sure about your views on Monaghan.

They won Ulster in 2013, made the final in 2014 which proved 2013 was no one off, and then won it again in 2015. Three finals in a row winning two of them. That's seriously impressive for a small county. That team will be remembered as a great team, because they backed up their title with another one shortly after. That's what great teams do. All the while managing to stay in the top division. They also made the Ulster final last year and gave Tyrone their hardest game of the year.

They're far from finished yet as they have a strong underage scene. Monaghan are an example of how a small county can best utilise limited resources, and in fact, we could learn a lot from them, as much as it pains me to say it, but it's true."
You're stretching when you're going back to 2015. Look at their last 6 seasons, and it's not good reading for a Division 1 mainstay team. In fact I'd add that it's the worst record of any of the main Division 1 teams.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 09:46:21    2407946

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Well they were very unlucky not to beat Tyrone in the Ulster Final last year…. Playing 1st division football has done them no harm… I would certainly rather be playing the Kerry's and Dublins of this world on a regular basis than mucking around playing games with Waterford and London… That's where we should aim to be…."
I'm not disagreeing with that. All I'm saying is it hasn't been all good for them either based on results. Clinging on all Spring has not been best for them as it's the wrong time of year. Saying that, it should suit them better from next year with the new format

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 09:48:09    2407949

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "Monaghan have won two ulsters in the past 10 years and i think they have lost three finals which is brilliant going from a county there size and far from worrying about them we should try and emulate them. There achievement in staying in division one for the past eight or nine years is some going. They were worring about beating Dublin this weekend and we were worried about beating Waterford so it not hard to see who is in the better position."
But nothing in the last 6, despite being in Division 1 the whole time. In fact, for any of the Division 1 teams, they look to have the worst record. Read back my post again. I'm not saying don't be in Division 1, but the answer is probably between the 2. Roscommon have won more than them in the last 6 years, they're the ones it seems to work for as they go up and down and build.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 09:50:32    2407951

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "Monaghan are decent in the league this past 6 years. When they needed a result yesterday to stay up they got it. What more can they do.
When we were in Div1, And needed a result to stay up we didn't get it.
Nor did we get it when needing a result in Div 2 to stay up.
Nor did we get a result to stay up in Div 3 either.
We are a long way behind Monaghan . They can grind out a result when needed. We can't .
We have no forward in McManus class even though he's at the end of his career.
Nobody to touch Jack McCarton on his day either.
You cannot compare us to the consistency of any of the Div 1 teams .
Your deluded Loughduff lad. What you going to talk about if Antrim beat us? McKenna cup?"
Why are you getting so angry at me? I'm not deluded, I've pointed out Championship results. Compare ours to theirs last 6 years and you'll see your answer. You say we're a long way behind them. Based on what? Championship results? Or just league? On League, you're right. But didn't we beat them in 2019 and 2020 after we were relegated and they stayed up? My point (if you'd read it again and not let the red mist descend) is that they cling on in Division 1 year on year, and it seems to mess up their timing later in the year. Being in Division 1 hasn't done much for them, as their Championship record (in comparison to ours even) is quite poor for a top Division team. It's clear to see if you look logically.

Now are they overall in a better place? Yes, they are. Obviously. I just think there's a middle ground rather than killing themselves for League. Offer me their Championship results or ours over the last 5 years, and I'll take ours... That could well change next few years though. But let's not pretend they've better results as of now.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 09:57:09    2407955

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It's hard to discredit Monaghan as they have shown great guts and determination over the years to keep their Division 1 status… they were relegated on 70 minutes on the last day for the last 3 years but showed the guts and willpower to pull it out of the bag and stay up each time… now compare that to our lads tipping the full load when faced with the might of Wicklow to avoid the embarrassment of dropping into Division 4…. I think anyone with common sense and knowledge of the game would have to admit it doesn't compare too well.. Monaghan are probably punching above their weight but we should be on their coat tails in Division 2 at least…. I think Div 2 is our level and would be a great place to spend a long spell in… That should be our number 1 aim next season in my opinion…!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 4243 - 29/03/2022 10:15:42    2407966

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Why are you getting so angry at me? I'm not deluded, I've pointed out Championship results. Compare ours to theirs last 6 years and you'll see your answer. You say we're a long way behind them. Based on what? Championship results? Or just league? On League, you're right. But didn't we beat them in 2019 and 2020 after we were relegated and they stayed up? My point (if you'd read it again and not let the red mist descend) is that they cling on in Division 1 year on year, and it seems to mess up their timing later in the year. Being in Division 1 hasn't done much for them, as their Championship record (in comparison to ours even) is quite poor for a top Division team. It's clear to see if you look logically.

Now are they overall in a better place? Yes, they are. Obviously. I just think there's a middle ground rather than killing themselves for League. Offer me their Championship results or ours over the last 5 years, and I'll take ours... That could well change next few years though. But let's not pretend they've better results as of now."
They cling to Div 1 you say.
What's wrong with that? We slid down the Divisions this past 3 years.
They going out results. There a much better overall team than ours this past 5/6 years for consistency alone.
And even though it pains me to say it a blind man can see that they in a better position than us.
What's our claim to fame this year? Beating London by a point or hammering Waterford at home?
Monaghan beat the Dubs when it mattered to stay up.
When did we beat anyone of note to stay in a Division?
We couldn't even beat Tipperary at home in a league game and will struggle to beat them this Saturday too.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 29/03/2022 10:18:46    2407968

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "It's hard to discredit Monaghan as they have shown great guts and determination over the years to keep their Division 1 status… they were relegated on 70 minutes on the last day for the last 3 years but showed the guts and willpower to pull it out of the bag and stay up each time… now compare that to our lads tipping the full load when faced with the might of Wicklow to avoid the embarrassment of dropping into Division 4…. I think anyone with common sense and knowledge of the game would have to admit it doesn't compare too well.. Monaghan are probably punching above their weight but we should be on their coat tails in Division 2 at least…. I think Div 2 is our level and would be a great place to spend a long spell in… That should be our number 1 aim next season in my opinion…!!!"
Again, not disagreeing with any of that. But has it all been worthwhile for them? Do you think their Championship results have been worthy of a Div 1 team the last 6 years?

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 10:19:19    2407969

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "They cling to Div 1 you say.
What's wrong with that? We slid down the Divisions this past 3 years.
They going out results. There a much better overall team than ours this past 5/6 years for consistency alone.
And even though it pains me to say it a blind man can see that they in a better position than us.
What's our claim to fame this year? Beating London by a point or hammering Waterford at home?
Monaghan beat the Dubs when it mattered to stay up.
When did we beat anyone of note to stay in a Division?
We couldn't even beat Tipperary at home in a league game and will struggle to beat them this Saturday too."
But look past the League (which you only reference there). Has it been worthwhile for their Championship prep? Has hanging in Division 1 actually been good for them?

Like honestly answer me? You're another obsessed with the league. Out League results are terrible, everyone knows this. But our Championship results recently have been better than Monaghan. Sure we even beat them twice on relegation, when they stayed up.

Absolutely we should be better, but the point I made is should we be somewhere between the two? You've gone full nuclear, used League results only, and actually completely missed the point I was making. I'm not saying do what we did and go down to Division 4, up near the top is absolutely better. But an odd relegation to rebuild, get a winning streak going etc. can be no bad thing. Try reading my post before ranting pal.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 10:31:28    2407977

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Again, not disagreeing with any of that. But has it all been worthwhile for them? Do you think their Championship results have been worthy of a Div 1 team the last 6 years?"
Would you swap positions with Monaghan over the past 10 years?

Yes or no?

I certainly would.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 29/03/2022 10:42:52    2407988

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "Would you swap positions with Monaghan over the past 10 years?

Yes or no?

I certainly would."
I see you are unable to answer a question yourself, but you rather just ask a rhetorical one. Over 2012-2016, then yes, I'd swap. Over 2017-2021 no, I wouldn't. They had better Championship results first 5 of the last 10 years, we've had the better of the last 5.

What's your answer?

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 10:49:23    2407995

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "Would you swap positions with Monaghan over the past 10 years?

Yes or no?

I certainly would."
By the way, you very much also missed the point I was making. Monaghan clearly did very well in 2013 and 2015, where they won an Ulster and backed it up. I was super jealous of that. But that's not my point. Despite being in Division 1 since, they've not done much. If anything, we can see they won Ulster in 2013 from getting promoted from Div 3, and then backed that up in 2015 on the back of promotion from Division 2 and then a Division 1 campaign. Those 2 titles were on the back of 2 promotions from lower divisions where they went on winnings runs. I believe this suited them better than clinging on and staying up on the last day by the odd point here and there. THAT is my point. And if you stop getting mad, and look logically, you can see it there.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 10:56:28    2407999

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "But look past the League (which you only reference there). Has it been worthwhile for their Championship prep? Has hanging in Division 1 actually been good for them?

Like honestly answer me? You're another obsessed with the league. Out League results are terrible, everyone knows this. But our Championship results recently have been better than Monaghan. Sure we even beat them twice on relegation, when they stayed up.

Absolutely we should be better, but the point I made is should we be somewhere between the two? You've gone full nuclear, used League results only, and actually completely missed the point I was making. I'm not saying do what we did and go down to Division 4, up near the top is absolutely better. But an odd relegation to rebuild, get a winning streak going etc. can be no bad thing. Try reading my post before ranting pal."
Your obsessed with the Championship. Why? We have only won 2 ulsters since 1969. Is that why your obsessed?
I'd rather have some consistency around Div 1 for 5/6 years. Then I would know that our championship chances would improve as we would be playing a higher standard of football regularly.
Rarely does a Div 3/4 team win a provincial title . Well not much in Ulster anyway.
Monaghan , Tyrone and Donegal have been contesting and winning Ulsters because they playing at a higher level regularly.
Even back in 2010 Cork won an All Ireland and a few league titles around the same time.
You don't seem to grasp that in the long term you have to be playing regular Div 1 football to consistently achieve at provincial level.
Yes pulling off the odd master stroke once every 25 yrs is great. But it's consistently we need to be aiming for.
Getting out of Div 3 next year would be my priority. Anything win we get after Antrim in the Championship would be a bonus.
That's my take on it.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 29/03/2022 11:07:31    2408007

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "But look past the League (which you only reference there). Has it been worthwhile for their Championship prep? Has hanging in Division 1 actually been good for them?

Like honestly answer me? You're another obsessed with the league. Out League results are terrible, everyone knows this. But our Championship results recently have been better than Monaghan. Sure we even beat them twice on relegation, when they stayed up.

Absolutely we should be better, but the point I made is should we be somewhere between the two? You've gone full nuclear, used League results only, and actually completely missed the point I was making. I'm not saying do what we did and go down to Division 4, up near the top is absolutely better. But an odd relegation to rebuild, get a winning streak going etc. can be no bad thing. Try reading my post before ranting pal."
I dont think he is obsessed with the league. In my opinion if we were consistently in Div 1 and not competing in ulster I am certain he would be on here moaning about that too. He is obsessed rather with having a dig at the county team no matter what. You cant please these people bar if you are performing to the levels of Dublin.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 29/03/2022 11:21:31    2408015

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "Your obsessed with the Championship. Why? We have only won 2 ulsters since 1969. Is that why your obsessed?
I'd rather have some consistency around Div 1 for 5/6 years. Then I would know that our championship chances would improve as we would be playing a higher standard of football regularly.
Rarely does a Div 3/4 team win a provincial title . Well not much in Ulster anyway.
Monaghan , Tyrone and Donegal have been contesting and winning Ulsters because they playing at a higher level regularly.
Even back in 2010 Cork won an All Ireland and a few league titles around the same time.
You don't seem to grasp that in the long term you have to be playing regular Div 1 football to consistently achieve at provincial level.
Yes pulling off the odd master stroke once every 25 yrs is great. But it's consistently we need to be aiming for.
Getting out of Div 3 next year would be my priority. Anything win we get after Antrim in the Championship would be a bonus.
That's my take on it."
Yes, I am obsessed with Championship. As it's the big one. It's why you can tell me we won 2 Ulsters since 1969. Bet you'd be able to tell me the years we were in Ulster finals since then too. You'd be hard pressed to remember any league results from over 5 years ago. I could tell you scores of Championship matches from the 90s and give a go at naming the team that started. There's a reason, Championship is everything.

Now I like the League, I go to all the matches, but please don't try and tell me it's better or more prestigious something. League doesn't come close. People vote with their feet. It's why we get big attendances in summer, and not much in Spring.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 29/03/2022 11:32:05    2408027

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