fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 08/07/2019 12:57:05    2207765

Some serious questions raised after this latest defeat.

The Donegal scoreline did not reflect the game, to me that game was like a 10-point or 12-point defeat in reality. So two absolute hammerings in our two biggest games of the season.

So what exactly happened after the Armagh game?

And maybe an even more important question - what the hell happened after the Donegal game?

If the reports about a bus being rented to ferry players around pubs in Cavan are true, that really should raise serious questions about the mentality of the group.

Whatever about anything else, it speaks volumes about the attitude of the players. As an old neighbour said to me recently, it seems to be a case of "if we win that's great, and if we don't win that's alright too"

Not something we should be all signing up for in my view

declando (Cavan) - Posts: 38 - 08/07/2019 13:21:28    2207797

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 08/07/2019 15:10:46    2207910

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 08/07/2019 15:53:33    2207935

I decided to wait a couple of days to let the dust settle on this one. leaving Clones was a mixture of emotions. I was a wee bit angry but mostly depressed. look its absolutely pointless talking about tactics, managers, party buses, named 15's, rows in the camp or whatever else you can think of because as a poster earlier said they were beaten as soon as Tyrone came out of the bowl. No doubting that if Cavan had got a handier draw we might be in the super 8's because Cavan would've perceived Laois or Clare as been 100% beatable. Tyrone on the other hand, they never believed. Cavan weren't there to fight. I honestly don't know if that's how they approached it or not but it was a performance filled with pure fear. As an old man said to me after the game ''lads calling for ball and them stuck to their men''. they didn't want the ball!!! Probably one of the most disappointing displays I've seen from Cavan and that list is, unfortunately, getting longer.
I will, however, stick to my guns in saying that there are players there good enough to play county. technically good players, no doubt in my mind. but there are massive mental issues to be overcome. fear, in many different capacities, being one of them. the problem was that no one wanted to take responsibility and no one wanted to help the next man on the pitch, in fact, it actually looked as though lads wanted to get off more so.
It's extremely disappointing but not one of them wanted to be ''carried off on their shield or ''die with their boots on whatever way you want to put it. I'm not sure anyone can put that attitude into the players to love their county that much that they'd fight to the bitter end no matter what the outcome.
I often think back to when Mc Guinness took over Donegal and the first thing he told them was to look outside, that there was a county full of people longing for a team to come along and give them something to be proud of. that's where we are at the moment and have been the last 50 years!!!!

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 414 - 08/07/2019 16:20:01    2207964

Would just like it noted that Jack Brady & Martin Reilly togged out and played for their respective clubs in the league yesterday i.e. less that 24 hours after Tyrone hammering. This kind of commitment should be recognised & applauded. Fair play to them both.

ramor101 (Cavan) - Posts: 289 - 08/07/2019 16:21:38    2207965

Lads, a few obvious things about game which already have been noted:

1) It was clear that Gramham has no managerial experience at this level, the team was operating at half pace compared to Tyrone. Again, at the half way point, the lateral passing begins and play slows away down. Tyrone could break at pace and had the quality to take the scores
2) The heart of the team is sound but 1/3 of the team is not up to the standard and there are no leaders. G Mc for example has the ability but not a leader. Mackey is guilty for slowing up the pace by lateral passing; however, was our best player in my view on Saturday
3) Most obvious point- we don't have the quality of McBrearty or McShane up front to get scores. Although McVeety is a class player, Tyrone could easily take him out of the game by doubling up on him. I am not sure if it is lack of vision or system played, but we never seem to make the right runs or find a man in the right location to take a shot. Running up bling alleys continuously.

I hope Gramhan can turn things around and find a few players for next year.

McGiolla (Cavan) - Posts: 42 - 08/07/2019 16:47:19    2207986

Summary of Mickey's First Year imo:

Beating Monaghan and Armagh after the replay in good style makes the year a success overall as our c'ship non performances particularly in Ulster or against teams of that standard have been poor for 4/5/10 years.

The league was on the disappointing side of mediocre I thought. But then again, he did not have an ideal run in to it with the Mullinaghta situation so I will allow for that.

The Tyrone performance was as bad as I have seen even in the last 4-10 years. While the Donegal game was a 4 point hammering, at least we showed some endeavor and intensity but I suppose we wouldn't be the first team to not show up after a disappointing provincial final.

I wont be too critical though as MG can only work with what he has got, and now that he has the time, he needs to look closely at the club c'ship and underage structure to try to find more players for the panel that are up to scratch. Particularly ones with a bit of physical stature or that wont take long to be conditioned to have it, as in a good few cases we were just overpowered by Donegal and Tyrone, A few more lads with genuine uncoached pace like Stephen Murray would also be a good threat to add in if it was available. We have too many similar players operating right the way from the full back line right up to corner forward I feel, a few specialist threats need to found.

But maybe those kind of lads are not out there or wont commit. A lot of talk now again about the lads that are not getting in or going in but of the lads that I have seen playing for Cavan before, I think maybe David Givney & Conor Bradley are the only two that you could be sure would definitely make a big impact or offer something new. Givney more so because of his catching ability.

On the proper negative side (and I'm not calling for Mickey's head, I think he should get at least 2 more years regardless of what happens next year), I thought his gameplan and team selection was very naive particularly against Tyrone but also Donegal. The withdrawal of a forward against Donegal was not countered with any threat to make up for it, it was just bringing another man back. I think he should have went for it more in that game.

And then against Tyrone, I think he more or less persisted with the same planned that failed against Donegal and also Donegal had showed Tyrone how to show down our key men like McVeety, Martin Reilly, Mackey and Gearoid. I would have expected that Mickey would have known that we were facing the same setup and treatment of our key men against Tyrone and threw something different at Tyrone to keep us competitive. Like perhaps a full blanket defense to keep the game close and turn it into the worst game of football ever to be seen but at least a close one that we could be competitive in.

I'm not advocating going back to the blanket next year or anything like that, but I had higher expectations of what Mickey was bringing to the table, and I think lads didn't show up on the day as well, but with the game plan we went into the Tyrone game with, we were dead men walking.

But sure that's it for another year.. at least there was a few rips in extra Clones got out of it..

PatTheDandy (Cavan) - Posts: 356 - 08/07/2019 17:06:05    2207997

I fell for it again, hook, line and sinker - I thought we had turned a corner but the old failings have come back to haunt us. I kind of agree with Mickey that we are not as bad as the showing on Saturday but we have a lot of catching up to do to bridge the gap to the top teams. I wasn't expecting a win, we have to remember that Tyrone team were in an all Ireland final last year, something we can only dream of but I was expecting a bit of fight from the team after the Ulster Final showing ... some of shooting was terrible ... the wides and missed frees at the end in particular were very poor.

I see references from other posters to the party bus and it was on the move yesterday again - now I don't begrudge the lads having a few beers but a party bus doing the rounds and the players visibly drunk is not the kind of message to send to the young lads (and ladies) wanting to become the next Cavan great.

After the Ulster final, the players were out in Cavan town kitted out with tops saying "Ulster Final 2019" - and unfortunately it struck a chord, I think that is the level of our ambition, we seemed happy to get there for the day out but we need to change the mentality and tops that say "Ulster Final winners 202x"! If they were making tops for Ulster final appearances for the Donegal lads they would have to re-open the fruit of the loom factory up there!

Hopefully we can re-group because div 2 next year will be no stroll in the park with a few ulster derbies, a half decent Clare team, our auld friends the rossies to name but a few just waiting to get a crack at us ...

sidelineview (Cavan) - Posts: 109 - 08/07/2019 17:09:10    2207999

Kilnaleck Blue (Cavan) - Posts: 25 - 08/07/2019 17:42:25    2208023

Sean.66 (Cavan) - Posts: 293 - 08/07/2019 18:07:12    2208036

Crash Bang Wallop (None) - Posts: 268 - 08/07/2019 18:21:51    2208044

patman92 (Cavan) - Posts: 71 - 08/07/2019 18:40:04    2208049

It's not really a starting point. Any of the other teams outside top few, can beat each other. Cork are in Division 3 next year and would be capable of beating Cavan..

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 08/07/2019 18:47:10    2208053

I dont buy into the notion that getting to an Ulster Final means progress. Look, Fermangh were there last year and were hammered. Down were the same in 2017. Who even remembers? They are not counted among the contenders since. We got carried away after beating 2 mid range teams.
When it was time to step up a gear we were found wanting in all departments. That is the reality. Starting from anywhere else for 2019 is just kidding ourselves.
Faulkner can hold his head high, McVeety and maybe Moynagh too. Would Mickey Harte entertain any of the rest? You know the answer.
I am gutted today but self delusion is not the cure.

MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 493 - 08/07/2019 19:04:44    2208063

A previous poster put it so succinctly with a very apt phrase.

Cavan footballers attidues over the past fifty years can be summed up as follows,

"if we win that's great, and if we lose, that's alright too".

It's an incredibly accurate phrase to describe the mentality that exists within Cavan football. It's all wrong, from the players, to the management, to the supporters, to the administration. We're all in this together, and we all need to reflect on how we can change.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 08/07/2019 21:10:04    2208160

In the 19 years since the qualifier format was introduced, cavan have made the quarter finals of the all Ireland championship once. Once. And even then, we beat London to get there.

There is something seriously wrong with football in this county, that can't just be explained by blaming managers or complaining that a certain player or 2 have opted out.

GallantJohnJoe (Cavan) - Posts: 329 - 08/07/2019 21:32:35    2208177

blueskies (Cavan) - Posts: 197 - 08/07/2019 21:40:55    2208186

Kilnaleck Blue (Cavan) - Posts: 25 - 08/07/2019 21:41:33    2208189

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 08/07/2019 22:45:48    2208238