Cavan Forum

National League 2019

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Replying To fredflint:  "No he's not. Tell me one season he lit up the championship. It's a myth. One game as a sub against Wicklow does not make the best forward in 20 years."
Check the scoring stats since 2004 and name a forward who has scored more than Johnston.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 11/02/2019 05:39:14    2164366

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Replying To BreffniGuide:  "People wanted McGleenan's head because he was a bluffer. Have a listen to some of his interviews. He came in spouting about attacking football and then reverted to type. We were rudderless when he left. The 2017 capitulation in the Qualifiers vs Tipp was the worst Cavan management performance I saw in a long time. Tipp simply pushed up on us and Mattie hadn't a clue what to do.
Terry had the team going places in 2016 when we were performing well but McGleenan, and you can argue all you like about leaving us back in Division 1, sent us backwards. He was a lucky manager more than anything - lucky to beat Tipp in the league last year and lucky to beat Down in the qualifiers.
Give the present management team. They are proven and deserve time.
As for being a "supporter", other than being overly negative and dismissive of the team and their efforts, I don't see much support from you.
Still, at least it appears you won't have a crisis of conscience next year because it looks like Cork are on their way to Division 3 if we're in 2 - every cloud has a silver lining."
I am not worried about Cork for I want Cavan to succeed so there will be no crisis of conscience for me in any way shape or form. You say we have proven management may I ask at what please. I will give Micky credit at club level but who else has won at management in the Cavan set up. Mattie was not the bluffer but the players in the dressing room know who was thats for sure and he was not a Tyrone man.
You say give the present management team a chance I will off course give them a chance and this time next year let's see where we are at for there will be no excuse why the best are not in on the panel for he will have no other distractions to interfere with his progress going forward. I fear right now we are in big trouble. Having watched the Monaghan Galway match if Cavan cannot get change from Monaghan we are in deep S*** sadly.
Anyway 6 points to play for? win all of them we stay in division 1 but it's not going to happen.
I have backed most managers over the years and it is the same for Mickey for I know his heart is in the right place but managing an Inter-county team is completely different from managing a club team and he will have learnt that at this stage.

Look we have some great players in Cavan please god next year they will get a chance to show it by being brought in. Don't ask me to name them for you know who they are if you watched as many matches I did.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 11/02/2019 08:58:01    2164385

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Replying To BreffniGuide:  "People wanted McGleenan's head because he was a bluffer. Have a listen to some of his interviews. He came in spouting about attacking football and then reverted to type. We were rudderless when he left. The 2017 capitulation in the Qualifiers vs Tipp was the worst Cavan management performance I saw in a long time. Tipp simply pushed up on us and Mattie hadn't a clue what to do.
Terry had the team going places in 2016 when we were performing well but McGleenan, and you can argue all you like about leaving us back in Division 1, sent us backwards. He was a lucky manager more than anything - lucky to beat Tipp in the league last year and lucky to beat Down in the qualifiers.
Give the present management team. They are proven and deserve time.
As for being a "supporter", other than being overly negative and dismissive of the team and their efforts, I don't see much support from you.
Still, at least it appears you won't have a crisis of conscience next year because it looks like Cork are on their way to Division 3 if we're in 2 - every cloud has a silver lining."
BreffniiGuide, this is a very good post and I fully agree with you re Mattie. I don't expect us to get enough points to stay up but I am pleased with our current style of play. In time, playing like this, I think we will start to get results to match the on-field progress, but unfortunately most likely next year from Div 2. There's nothing wrong with being realistic, managing our expectations and looking to the long-term. This year's championship is going to be hopeful rather than confident, but if we stick with it we can build a solid future.

ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 461 - 11/02/2019 09:13:43    2164390

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there are valid points in all the arguments in this thread. however I strongly we feel we wont fix it on here. The new manager appears to be trying to start from scratch albeit with mostly the same group of players. so far in 2019 it looks as many have pointed out that we lack a scoring forward which really hinders us but was is most evident is that we are way behind from a S&C perspective. we have been bullied out of the games a so far especially in the final quarter. maybe that may not be so profound in the quicker pitches in the summer?? I would be alarmed if this time next year if we hadn't closed the gap on the other teams in regards to S&C.
Division 1 is made up of the top 8 teams on league form. That's 8 teams out of 32. given all the chat about population etc perhaps we are punching a bit above our weight and moving between Div 1 and 2 aint so bad. do get me wrong I love us to be a Div 1 team all the time but I spent too long watching us in Div 3 & 4 to be really upset with our current predicament

kitog (UK) - Posts: 14 - 11/02/2019 09:57:55    2164412

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Replying To ondforty:  "BreffniiGuide, this is a very good post and I fully agree with you re Mattie. I don't expect us to get enough points to stay up but I am pleased with our current style of play. In time, playing like this, I think we will start to get results to match the on-field progress, but unfortunately most likely next year from Div 2. There's nothing wrong with being realistic, managing our expectations and looking to the long-term. This year's championship is going to be hopeful rather than confident, but if we stick with it we can build a solid future."
What is the current style of play? And when your at it explain Martin Reilly role against Mayo because I couldn't fathom it out.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 11/02/2019 10:13:22    2164423

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Two wins and a draw needed for the 3 winnable games. I would say that is doable but unlikely and 2 points out of those possible 6 is the likelihood. The games should all be close. The performance against Mayo was middling and it is likely that are back to being the 2nd best team in the country again now ahead of Kerry IMO.

Dubs are a different proposition to the team Monaghan played and we can write off getting anything from that one unfortunately.

I was & am a big Johnstone fan. I think he will be still one of the best forwards in the c'ship and still key for the Gaels but I would think bringing him back would be a backward step and not justifiable.

It's not a hugely relevant topic for this thread and not wanting to change the subject but just reading through the "Best/Most Consistent Cavan Scoring forward" of the last twenty years comments above or listing Seanie as the top man. I think if it was a club level list he would be top but for Cavan performances, my top 5 selection would be as follows:

1. Jason
2. Larry
3. Pierson
4. Seanie
5. Ronan Carolan

PatTheDandy (Cavan) - Posts: 356 - 11/02/2019 10:20:13    2164428

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Replying To ondforty:  "BreffniiGuide, this is a very good post and I fully agree with you re Mattie. I don't expect us to get enough points to stay up but I am pleased with our current style of play. In time, playing like this, I think we will start to get results to match the on-field progress, but unfortunately most likely next year from Div 2. There's nothing wrong with being realistic, managing our expectations and looking to the long-term. This year's championship is going to be hopeful rather than confident, but if we stick with it we can build a solid future."
Dream on for you are all set in your way's

Re the Tipp match this was lost all right from the side line but I can tell you not by the two Tyrone men. The taking off of our best player on the day was not made by neither of the Tyrone men but it's now history so I expect one has to move on. I cannot buy into what has been said about going forward and until they prove me wrong I will continue to think this way. I have seen two of the three games so far and I have not seen anything different. I saw the rubbish dished out at the Monaghan match and if Cavan cannot beat them they are going no place fast this year or next year.
I will stick to my thoughts going forward however and say Cavan will not beat any of the remaining three teams. I hope they prove me wrong.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 11/02/2019 10:21:23    2164429

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "What is the current style of play? And when your at it explain Martin Reilly role against Mayo because I couldn't fathom it out."
Can't believe you're asking me that. Have you really attended any matches this year? In the first game v Galway we waltzed the ball up to their 45 and then passed it back across the pitch until we lost it. This will turn out to have been the weakest opposition we will play in this division and we let them off the hook, Corofin lads and all. Against Kerry and Mayo we took the fight to them, determined to break the tackles and beat defenders, in particular Halla and Dara. Kerry had to resort to targeting them both to get away with their two points. The same determination against Mayo, having a go. I agree with you re Martin Reilly. He should be well able to take them on up front as well. Maybe too many years of negative football has programmed him to be super cautious. I'd prefer to see us playing this way and build from here, rather than park the bus in every game and survive on the last day.

ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 461 - 11/02/2019 10:41:53    2164440

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Replying To The Quiet Man:  "Dream on for you are all set in your way's

Re the Tipp match this was lost all right from the side line but I can tell you not by the two Tyrone men. The taking off of our best player on the day was not made by neither of the Tyrone men but it's now history so I expect one has to move on. I cannot buy into what has been said about going forward and until they prove me wrong I will continue to think this way. I have seen two of the three games so far and I have not seen anything different. I saw the rubbish dished out at the Monaghan match and if Cavan cannot beat them they are going no place fast this year or next year.
I will stick to my thoughts going forward however and say Cavan will not beat any of the remaining three teams. I hope they prove me wrong."
You're the one set in your ways Sean, happy with the Mattie ultra negative approach which followed on from Terry. I accept that it paid dividends in the early days and brought us forward from where we were. Huge credit to Terry for that and no surprise that he is tasting similar success with Leitrim, again from a low base. But who wants to watch that stuff every year?

ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 461 - 11/02/2019 10:53:09    2164448

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Replying To ondforty:  "Can't believe you're asking me that. Have you really attended any matches this year? In the first game v Galway we waltzed the ball up to their 45 and then passed it back across the pitch until we lost it. This will turn out to have been the weakest opposition we will play in this division and we let them off the hook, Corofin lads and all. Against Kerry and Mayo we took the fight to them, determined to break the tackles and beat defenders, in particular Halla and Dara. Kerry had to resort to targeting them both to get away with their two points. The same determination against Mayo, having a go. I agree with you re Martin Reilly. He should be well able to take them on up front as well. Maybe too many years of negative football has programmed him to be super cautious. I'd prefer to see us playing this way and build from here, rather than park the bus in every game and survive on the last day."
I've seen the 3 games and not once did we kick the ball in and try a win a free shot with this new mark. Not once.
If Mickey is serious about playing direct football that tactic should at least be tried regularly.
Our full forward against Galway spent more time in his own half back line than he did in the forward line.
Yes we are getting to the opposing 45 quicker than previous years but then panic sets in and we revert to lateral crap.
Against Galway it was Faulkner our full back that had our best goal chance and it was only a wonderful save from Galligan before half time that kept us in it.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 11/02/2019 11:26:05    2164462

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Replying To ondforty:  "You're the one set in your ways Sean, happy with the Mattie ultra negative approach which followed on from Terry. I accept that it paid dividends in the early days and brought us forward from where we were. Huge credit to Terry for that and no surprise that he is tasting similar success with Leitrim, again from a low base. But who wants to watch that stuff every year?"
Followed on from being top scorers in Division 2..maybe you weren't watching?

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 11/02/2019 11:30:59    2164464

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Replying To ondforty:  "You're the one set in your ways Sean, happy with the Mattie ultra negative approach which followed on from Terry. I accept that it paid dividends in the early days and brought us forward from where we were. Huge credit to Terry for that and no surprise that he is tasting similar success with Leitrim, again from a low base. But who wants to watch that stuff every year?"
No I am not set in my way's at all for if you read back posts I have regularly called it puke trash. I love seeing the width and length of the pitch being used to it's full this is why it's marked in Cavan 85 meters wide by 142 1/2 meters long.

But when you have a situation at county level where players are allowed to play when ever they like the county is going no place fast.
I have heard old Cavan men say in Breifni park many times saying jesus it's great to be alive to see Cavan win games. So what might not suit me and many others will satisfy many the old folk. One has to be happy for them.

Good luck to Micky but sadly I all ready fear for his Cavan future.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 11/02/2019 11:50:22    2164472

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "I've seen the 3 games and not once did we kick the ball in and try a win a free shot with this new mark. Not once.
If Mickey is serious about playing direct football that tactic should at least be tried regularly.
Our full forward against Galway spent more time in his own half back line than he did in the forward line.
Yes we are getting to the opposing 45 quicker than previous years but then panic sets in and we revert to lateral crap.
Against Galway it was Faulkner our full back that had our best goal chance and it was only a wonderful save from Galligan before half time that kept us in it."
That again is patently not true. Conor madden and scored a great mark against Kerry as did Jack Brady. So if you were at the matches you were not watching to well which does beg the question what else do you miss.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 11/02/2019 12:27:10    2164496

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Replying To fredflint:  "That again is patently not true. Conor madden and scored a great mark against Kerry as did Jack Brady. So if you were at the matches you were not watching to well which does beg the question what else do you miss."
How many marks did we win or even try to win against Galway and Mayo? Did we even try to kick for a mark? No we didn't.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 11/02/2019 12:49:56    2164499

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "How many marks did we win or even try to win against Galway and Mayo? Did we even try to kick for a mark? No we didn't."
This is what you said lad

"I've seen the 3 games and not once did we kick the ball in and try a win a free shot with this new mark"

I've just shown you that its not true, like a lot of what you say. Now take your medicine.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 11/02/2019 13:36:01    2164530

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Inaroundthehouse

Do you go to any Cavan games?

There was no lateral passing on the Mayo 45 on Saturday night. Plenty of ball went in to Madden. Sometimes the quality of the delivery wasn't great and even when it was, Cafferkey snuffed him out (apart from 1 free we won and scored in the 1st half).

Higgins sat in front of Cafferkey for the whole game and direct ball in wasn't always the right option. The team ran plenty of ball at the Mayo half back line and got plenty of joy from it. On the night, a better team than us (no disputing the quality Mayo have) scored 2 points more than we did and got what was a very questionable goal.

We were set up very well and played a good brand of football. The quality just wasn't there at some crucial times.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5194 - 11/02/2019 13:38:12    2164532

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This year's league campaign was always going to be a struggle even if we didn't have the absentees we have. The Galway match was a bit disappointing but we were still in the contest right up to the last kick. We have been competitive in the games versus Kerry and Mayo and bar the illegal charge on the goalkeeper last time out we would have 3 clean sheets. Look, we're not setting the world on fire but I'm reasonably happy with what I've seen so far and there are positives to take going forward. If we get our key men fully fit and raring to go come championship we won't be an easy proposition for a lot of teams. And I still wouldn't rule out the possibility of picking up some points in the league yet. This is an unforgiving division where all weaknesses are punished but we've shown enough to think we are a good Division 2 team. That's a good position to be in and hopefully something we build on but we're going to have to accept defeats in the process. Look at Kildare last year. Never picked up a point in the league but made Super 8's. Never picked up a point there either but it was still a good year for them. That's the lot of the teams outside top 6 and until a team makes the transition into a dominant top 6 team they are always going to get a bloodied nose when they get to Division 1 or into Super 8's. Crying about it will do no good nor will slagging off players or managers. They're trying their best and deserve a bit of encouragement.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 11/02/2019 13:41:34    2164533

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "How many marks did we win or even try to win against Galway and Mayo? Did we even try to kick for a mark? No we didn't."
Well against Mayo we tried on several occasions but Madden wasn't getting the ball to stick. Even at that we won at least 2. I take it you don't have eir sport 2?

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 11/02/2019 13:41:58    2164535

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Inaroundthehouse

Do you go to any Cavan games?

There was no lateral passing on the Mayo 45 on Saturday night. Plenty of ball went in to Madden. Sometimes the quality of the delivery wasn't great and even when it was, Cafferkey snuffed him out (apart from 1 free we won and scored in the 1st half).

Higgins sat in front of Cafferkey for the whole game and direct ball in wasn't always the right option. The team ran plenty of ball at the Mayo half back line and got plenty of joy from it. On the night, a better team than us (no disputing the quality Mayo have) scored 2 points more than we did and got what was a very questionable goal.

We were set up very well and played a good brand of football. The quality just wasn't there at some crucial times."
If we were set up well then who contested the ball with Galligan for the Mayo goal and why was he there? Everybody playing where they like.
Not once did Martin Reilly send a forward pass. Backwards sideways anytwhere but forward.. chronic laboured slow hand passing . No pace whatesoever. No running off the shoulder and very little intense tackling. All the basics for even showing that you might want to try and contest we're missing.
Best player was Rehill who took his points well and looked like he was interested.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 11/02/2019 13:51:51    2164540

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "This year's league campaign was always going to be a struggle even if we didn't have the absentees we have. The Galway match was a bit disappointing but we were still in the contest right up to the last kick. We have been competitive in the games versus Kerry and Mayo and bar the illegal charge on the goalkeeper last time out we would have 3 clean sheets. Look, we're not setting the world on fire but I'm reasonably happy with what I've seen so far and there are positives to take going forward. If we get our key men fully fit and raring to go come championship we won't be an easy proposition for a lot of teams. And I still wouldn't rule out the possibility of picking up some points in the league yet. This is an unforgiving division where all weaknesses are punished but we've shown enough to think we are a good Division 2 team. That's a good position to be in and hopefully something we build on but we're going to have to accept defeats in the process. Look at Kildare last year. Never picked up a point in the league but made Super 8's. Never picked up a point there either but it was still a good year for them. That's the lot of the teams outside top 6 and until a team makes the transition into a dominant top 6 team they are always going to get a bloodied nose when they get to Division 1 or into Super 8's. Crying about it will do no good nor will slagging off players or managers. They're trying their best and deserve a bit of encouragement."
Someone speaking sense at last.

theham (Cavan) - Posts: 91 - 11/02/2019 13:59:36    2164544

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