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Replying To GallantJohnJoe: "Anyone suggesting the likes of Jim Mcguinness, Stephen Rochford or James Horan need to come back down to planet earth, these guys are way too smart to take over a thankless job of managing a county with high expectations but few elite players and a dysfunctional club scene.
I hold my hands up and say that I thought mcgleenan looked a very promising appointment but he has turned out to be fool's gold. I recall a monaghan poster suggesting that it would only be a good appointment if Colin Mcaree followed him from Scotstown, this didn't happen, he joined the monaghan backroom instead." I always thought Mattie underachieved with Scotstown.......he actually brought Kiernan Hughes (who hates tackling & as a result it's not one of his crowning glories) all the way back to man mark Conor McManus in a county final. Scotstown won.......... in spite of that crazy decision.
Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 01/07/2018 14:26:33
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I do believe a change in management is needed, nonetheless lads, I make an honest plea to you all, do not kid yourselves about the real nature of the problem.
We haven't been a successful team for 50 years (bar a one season wonder in 1997).
Realistically, for a county like ourselves, I do think our level should be between divisions one and two year on year, and also a provincial title at least once a decade. That is not too much to ask. We have no soccer, no hurling, no rugby to compete with like other small counties do, and population wise we're not at a significant disadvantage in the province.
Look at whats in front of you at the club championship this Summer. Look at the record of Cavan clubs in Ulster.
We're not going to achieve anything at county level unless a handful of clubs are forced to merge, to condense the number of clubs to a reasonable level, improving the standard across the board. Not amalgamate. Merge.
Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 01/07/2018 14:34:36
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Replying To Cavan_Shambles: "I do believe a change in management is needed, nonetheless lads, I make an honest plea to you all, do not kid yourselves about the real nature of the problem.
We haven't been a successful team for 50 years (bar a one season wonder in 1997).
Realistically, for a county like ourselves, I do think our level should be between divisions one and two year on year, and also a provincial title at least once a decade. That is not too much to ask. We have no soccer, no hurling, no rugby to compete with like other small counties do, and population wise we're not at a significant disadvantage in the province.
Look at whats in front of you at the club championship this Summer. Look at the record of Cavan clubs in Ulster.
We're not going to achieve anything at county level unless a handful of clubs are forced to merge, to condense the number of clubs to a reasonable level, improving the standard across the board. Not amalgamate. Merge." I think there is one major job to be done by our county board and in particular by our development officer Dermot mcabe, they will have to call a meeting and invite them 63 players that was part of our u 21 teams from 2011 and that's not committing to the senior panel and see what is the problem that they won't commit and how it can be fixed, we need this sorted soon, and there is a good core of players on the panel there but if we can add to that, if we can get 10 out of that 63 it would do wonders.
blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 885 - 01/07/2018 15:57:10
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Replying To blueman1903: "I think there is one major job to be done by our county board and in particular by our development officer Dermot mcabe, they will have to call a meeting and invite them 63 players that was part of our u 21 teams from 2011 and that's not committing to the senior panel and see what is the problem that they won't commit and how it can be fixed, we need this sorted soon, and there is a good core of players on the panel there but if we can add to that, if we can get 10 out of that 63 it would do wonders." Those seem to be the 2 major issues.
The club scene:
It's not as if all our clubs have a century old history. Virginia once had a club, there was a time when crosserlough didn't, Cavan Slashers took in all of Cavan town etc.
So the status quo can be and should be changed. The number of strong clubs in cavan could be reduced to 30 or even 24 very easily. The whole club scene would benefit. Games could be played without county players as their absence wouldn't be felt as much.
Player commitment to the county team:
It's a HUGE issue! We've produced the players in this county over the past decade to at least be making all ireland quarter finals regularly and to be looking at being competitive at division 1 level.
Imagine the impact David Givney, Eugene Keating, Barry Reilly, James McEnroe, Rory Dunne, Niall McDermott, Gerry Smith, Martin Dunne, etc. could've made yesterday!
If we can't get our best players onto the panel then we are fighting an uphill battle from the start and won't beat the Donegals and Tyrones (a poor tyrone team) of this world.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5193 - 01/07/2018 16:36:14
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Replying To blueman1903: "I think there is one major job to be done by our county board and in particular by our development officer Dermot mcabe, they will have to call a meeting and invite them 63 players that was part of our u 21 teams from 2011 and that's not committing to the senior panel and see what is the problem that they won't commit and how it can be fixed, we need this sorted soon, and there is a good core of players on the panel there but if we can add to that, if we can get 10 out of that 63 it would do wonders." Absolutely agree with that.
Time for the co.board to step in and address the structural failings and see why lads who were proud to play for the county at underage level are no longer interested. There has to be an underlying reason why so many of them are not available, as you said 63 to be precise, it's astonishing.
Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 01/07/2018 16:44:56
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Different reasons I'd imagine, work, the time involved of being a county player, some unhappy with not getting playing. Injuries for others.
The hunger maybe not there. Givney and Keating didn't play in 2015, came back in 2016 and didn't play in 2017 when Cavan were a division 1 team.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 01/07/2018 17:14:33
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Replying To FoolsGold: "Different reasons I'd imagine, work, the time involved of being a county player, some unhappy with not getting playing. Injuries for others.
The hunger maybe not there. Givney and Keating didn't play in 2015, came back in 2016 and didn't play in 2017 when Cavan were a division 1 team." You're slightly missing the point though, all counties have players who won't commit due to work commitments etc, but it is an exaggerated problem in Cavan. 63 players with Ulster u21 medals in their pockets are not on the county panel, these players in terms of age are now in their prime, and this needs to be investigated.
Perhaps a good manager with a proven CV is what they want.
Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 01/07/2018 17:33:54
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Replying To Cavan_Shambles: "I do believe a change in management is needed, nonetheless lads, I make an honest plea to you all, do not kid yourselves about the real nature of the problem.
We haven't been a successful team for 50 years (bar a one season wonder in 1997).
Realistically, for a county like ourselves, I do think our level should be between divisions one and two year on year, and also a provincial title at least once a decade. That is not too much to ask. We have no soccer, no hurling, no rugby to compete with like other small counties do, and population wise we're not at a significant disadvantage in the province.
Look at whats in front of you at the club championship this Summer. Look at the record of Cavan clubs in Ulster.
We're not going to achieve anything at county level unless a handful of clubs are forced to merge, to condense the number of clubs to a reasonable level, improving the standard across the board. Not amalgamate. Merge." Same old sh@@e blame the club football. What have Donegal clubs done in Ulster club? Best clubs of the last 20 years have been an Antrim and Armagh club so what have their counties achieved? Junior club players playing county football that where your problem is .
They
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 01/07/2018 17:45:15
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Replying To Cavan_Shambles: "You're slightly missing the point though, all counties have players who won't commit due to work commitments etc, but it is an exaggerated problem in Cavan. 63 players with Ulster u21 medals in their pockets are not on the county panel, these players in terms of age are now in their prime, and this needs to be investigated.
Perhaps a good manager with a proven CV is what they want." Exactly, if we just say oh it must be work commitments or no hunger with out finding out off them players collectively we will never get a solution, we have to know what can be done to rectify the problem. What do they need to commit.
blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 885 - 01/07/2018 17:48:22
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Fair enough. But there wasn't many standout players. Mckiernan, Clarke, McVeety were the best from those u21 teams and they are on Senior team. Niall Murray also. Barry Reilly can't commit because he is a farmer.
Gerry Reilly had accountany exams this year.
A lot of similar players of a similar standard. Some were on the panel last year and left after the league due to lack of game time,
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 01/07/2018 18:02:52
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Give the job to Peter Donnelly..... Some of you guys on here might not even know who this guy is!! Every effort should be made from the Co. Board to get this man involved.... The fall of good footballers and standards in the county has to stop. it will be a hard time ahead for all that has the blue jersey at heart....
upandcomingblue (Cavan) - Posts: 37 - 01/07/2018 18:11:50
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Replying To FoolsGold: "Fair enough. But there wasn't many standout players. Mckiernan, Clarke, McVeety were the best from those u21 teams and they are on Senior team. Niall Murray also. Barry Reilly can't commit because he is a farmer.
Gerry Reilly had accountany exams this year.
A lot of similar players of a similar standard. Some were on the panel last year and left after the league due to lack of game time," Again, although there wasn't many stand out players, we'd be a much more effective outfit with them players. Rory Dunne was a great fullback at one stage. McEnroe was a strong half back. Givney a super fielder of a ball and good forward. Keating, physically strong and although hit and miss, when on form was very good. Then you have the likes of McDermott, Jack Brady, Martin Dunne, Gerry Smith, Joe Dillon, Argue, so many others.
To say that these fellas wouldn't make a difference is just plain wrong.
Our bench is populated by players some of whom have never played for Cavan before.
Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 01/07/2018 18:14:14
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Replying To FoolsGold: "Fair enough. But there wasn't many standout players. Mckiernan, Clarke, McVeety were the best from those u21 teams and they are on Senior team. Niall Murray also. Barry Reilly can't commit because he is a farmer.
Gerry Reilly had accountany exams this year.
A lot of similar players of a similar standard. Some were on the panel last year and left after the league due to lack of game time," Damian barkey, m argue, j McEnroe, c conroy, t Mooney, l Buchanan, j dillion, p Leddy, they were stand out players too
blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 885 - 01/07/2018 18:29:54
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PLease can people stop mentioning John Bradys name for the senior job. The players he has had at his disposal the last two years and they still go out seriously unprepared. Three hammerings in two years for the minors. Some very good footballers but get found out by better managed teams like derry last year and monaghon today.
I think Jayo could be the man. great brain and could rejuvenate the whole thing.
blueskies (Cavan) - Posts: 197 - 01/07/2018 18:38:01
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Replying To Inaroundehouse: "Same old sh@@e blame the club football. What have Donegal clubs done in Ulster club? Best clubs of the last 20 years have been an Antrim and Armagh club so what have their counties achieved? Junior club players playing county football that where your problem is .
They" So you wouldn't want Givney back on the panel?
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5193 - 01/07/2018 19:24:35
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There is no question about it, for Cavan County Board to waste more of clubs' money for another year of this charade is unforgivable and visionless. First
Cavan men to manage , probably Jayo for passion, Declan Maguire for direction and drive, Nicholad Walsh to direct Strength and Condition, Finbarr Reilly skills plus coach, Martin Mc Govern team/player welfare and Jimmy Smith Crosserlough stats.
Second
Ask the hard questions why are so many good footballers not committed to the county team....ask them
Third
The so called leaders that are there Mc Kiernan, Mc Veety,Faulkner, Clarke ask the hard questions of the county board and don't allow the charade to continue, don't pretend things are ok.
Without the hard questions been asked and the urgent management changes made we are faced with at least 5-7 years of Vavan football in a black hole
All members of County Board and all club reps need to remember, bad things happen when good men stand by and do nothing .
Such shame.
shannon414 (Cavan) - Posts: 228 - 01/07/2018 19:52:29
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Replying To Cavan_Shambles: "Again, although there wasn't many stand out players, we'd be a much more effective outfit with them players. Rory Dunne was a great fullback at one stage. McEnroe was a strong half back. Givney a super fielder of a ball and good forward. Keating, physically strong and although hit and miss, when on form was very good. Then you have the likes of McDermott, Jack Brady, Martin Dunne, Gerry Smith, Joe Dillon, Argue, so many others.
To say that these fellas wouldn't make a difference is just plain wrong.
Our bench is populated by players some of whom have never played for Cavan before." I was referring to the players with Ulster medals, Never said anything about Rory Dunne, yes he was a good full back, opted out himself this year with injury. McEnroe opted out with work. Givney and Keating obviously would make a difference.
Gerry Smith had exams this year and would be a starter.
Dillon got a raw deal last year and left, Jack Brady , Tom Hayes and Argue left too.some of these players got chances at Senior level and didn't take them.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 01/07/2018 20:49:23
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Replying To shannon414: "There is no question about it, for Cavan County Board to waste more of clubs' money for another year of this charade is unforgivable and visionless. First
Cavan men to manage , probably Jayo for passion, Declan Maguire for direction and drive, Nicholad Walsh to direct Strength and Condition, Finbarr Reilly skills plus coach, Martin Mc Govern team/player welfare and Jimmy Smith Crosserlough stats.
Second
Ask the hard questions why are so many good footballers not committed to the county team....ask them
Third
The so called leaders that are there Mc Kiernan, Mc Veety,Faulkner, Clarke ask the hard questions of the county board and don't allow the charade to continue, don't pretend things are ok.
Without the hard questions been asked and the urgent management changes made we are faced with at least 5-7 years of Vavan football in a black hole
All members of County Board and all club reps need to remember, bad things happen when good men stand by and do nothing .
Such shame." There isn't a man within the county capable of Managinga Senior Inter County team and there hasn't been for over 35 years.
So get that notion out of your head.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 01/07/2018 21:10:32
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Replying To Farney1977: "Cavan simply are not good enough as a team. 1 or 2 good players but Cavan are an mid division 2 or top division 3 team. Supporters cannot continue to blame management. Cavan football will find its level and supporters should go out and enjoy what success that level brings." Sad to say but I have to agree with you're opinion, for many years Cavan have had one or two brilliant players who have to carry the team.
Unfortunately nothing has changed.
Surely with all the underage success we could harness some of them.
You always had that feeling that Tyrone were always going to win.
Can't see success any time soon.
Virginia (Cavan) - Posts: 101 - 02/07/2018 07:30:28
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15 mins left in the match, Cavan slightly on top, we get a free 30/40 metres from the Tyrone goal, McVeety (one of our so called better players) decides to take a quick one to Sean McCormack, the kick is intercepted and Tyrone go up and score, so instead of going a point up, we go a point down. Championship match in Breffni a couple of years ago, 5 points up against Monaghan with 15/20 mins left, Mackey gets a ball, solo's the ball into a tackle, loses the ball, Monaghan go and score. That my friends is the difference between good footballers and quality footballers, same mistakes made in the league final vs Roscommon. Those errors cannot be blamed on management. You can bring in Rochford or any other manager, but when players make silly little individual errors, those are the errors that make the difference between winning and losing games.
Regarding the 63 players with underage medals - the GAA commissioned a report back in 2014 about dropout rates - 75% of players between 21 & 25 drop out of Gaelic Football, probably higher now, so this is probably where many of those 63 players are. Our under 17s were hammered last night, this is despite the fact that Mr Brady had them training since early February, yet how many of these players played little if any football with their clubs. Where's all those players from the ages of 18 - 21, what football are they getting? They're getting no football because theres no competitions for them, the U20s doesn't start til November, the senior reserve league is a shambles and many of them arent just ready for Senior.
I said this back in 2015 and i'll keep saying it, you need to have a very competitive, strong club scene before you achieve success at Senior level. The club scene in Cavan is abysmal, its been broke for years and the County Board has ignored it. The same with the underage structure, we have an underage committee who throw together a few under age fixtures now and again without any consideration or care going into it.
Cavan Football is in serious decline, it will take years to do anything about it, thats if they actually do anything.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 02/07/2018 10:57:37
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