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GAA Keeping Rural Ireland Alive - 6 Like(s)
As I write this, the new Leinster club champions Mullinalaghta have just appeared on the late late show and well done to them. They have given hope to clubs up and down the country.
It was interesting to listen to their captain speak about the post office gone, shop, one pub closed and one left etc....however the GAA club is the ever constant.
My club wouldn't be much bigger and I'd imagine it's a case in every county where most clubs are rural, with services and people disappearing.
So for all the giving out we do just be thankful that we are all part of a fantastic organization, far from flawless and at times extremely frustrating but it's ours all the same and it's keeping communities alive.
yew_tree (National) - 14/12/2018 21:55:14
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 5 Like(s)
For those of us who point out the failure in leadership by those full time salaried people in the Association, here is a classic example. Cork County Board have a number of full time officials, so too the Munster Council & then those in Croke Park. Those in Croke Park have overall responsibility for the whole Association & all its branches. This project was driven by Croke Park/Cork County Board & rode on the coat tails of the RWC application. As pointed out in a great article by Cormac Byrne in the Indo, there were huge question marks from the start, but they were dismissed. One Cork official was quoted as saying they would pay off the debt in two years !!! Let's not forget the initial costing was €70 Million, so it's to date a €40 Million overspend, in most projects if this happened, people would be fired & an investigation launched. This is not even the final figure, so it could go higher & a so called brand new pitch now has to be relaid, which will cost a massive six figure sum & may have to have Hawk Eye be installed for the big games so they can reach the €2 Million mark needed annually to service the debt. The problem within the GAA is the lack of transparency & let's not forget the Cork official at this years Congress who dismissed the CPA's motion on transparency, maybe now we can see why ! Hard questions need to be asked, who was project managing this, why weren't Croke Park overseeing budgets & project management of a multi million Euro project. Will details be made public on where they overspend was. Was tendering & management of same above board, what companies were given contracts & was it all above board, has there been conflict of interest at any stage. What Government or lending institutions would now give the GAA massive sums when they can't even manage their budget or get their costings correct. Sadly as we saw in Galway where there has been another mismanagement of Millions, nobody is named, nobody is accountable, its all sanitised & swept under the carpet, if you question anything you are pilliored, that is why they have been getting away with things, because people don't have the guts to speak up & tell the truth. PUC will now have qualifiers, Munster finals, everything at a cost to everybody else to pay for it. As we saw this year, fans will vote with their feet & not go. I was wondering why the Cork County finals were such a price this year, now we know why. The talk from all now will be of lessons learned, systems put in place, moving forward, all the usual claptrap, when everyone can now see that the Association from top to bottom is rudderless, leaderless, lacking transparency & is rotten to the core.
Uimhir.a.3. (National) - 14/12/2018 14:13:06
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 4 Like(s)
Replying To PyatPree: "Way over spend, but im sick of people calling it a white elephant, it had 2 munster hurling games, munster football final, All Ireland QF, 3 Ed Sheeran concerts and Liam Miller match and not to mention county championship games, hardly a white elephant, but that is a massive cost for what they built" Yeah but lets face it, it shouldn't have held the All-Ireland Quarter final, it very nearly didn't hold the Liam Miller match and 3 Ed Sheeran concerts would sell out if they had them in Cloyne GAA Club.
The overspend is a disgrace, and who else is going to lose out only the GAA clubs who would otherwise have benefited from this 25m.
The location of the stadium is awful, it along with Salthill is the worst located major stadium in the country. Yes its swanky, shiny and new but if you put lipstick on a pig its still a pig.
The GAA will rue the day they ever re-built that stadium, my father remembers the 1976 replay being played there and said it was a bad location back then. Very few people would dispute that fact.
StoreysTash (National) - 14/12/2018 12:31:03
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 4 Like(s)
I'd have a different opinion to be honest.
Its a huge capital outlay and it looks optimistic in terms of how they were going to manage it and poor they they didn't envisage an overspend.
But i actually admire the gumption to do this project and i really dont have a problem with the GAA now coming in and better supporting the project financially more then they have to this point.
Its a capital infrastructure profit, they inevitably have a deficit in the short term but long term it will pay for itself many times over over the next 100 years. Similar to Croke Park how many times will Croke Park pay for itself over the years.
The long term benefit of a marquee stadium in the biggest city in Munster is a vital aspiration in my opinion.
It should be the same in Connacht and Ulster, games beging funneled to Corke Park every year isnt good for anyone and each province should have the ability to host semi final games in my opinion and should be something the GAA should aspire to, plan and support.
The GAA needs to look at infrastructure and future proofing key provincial marquee facilitates as an attainable aspiration and i hope they learn from the experience at PUC and actually prompt a development plan around this.
As for the reporting on this when it comes to the quality of reporting on GAA fiance this is like so many sensationalist, very narrow and without proper analysis, just my opinion mind.
TheUsername (National) - 14/12/2018 13:21:52
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 4 Like(s)
None of GAA matches here have sold out or even close in the first year. Very poor attendances for the 1/4 finals. Massive vanity project for Frank Murphy. The club volunteers around Cork out selling club lottery tickets tonight and packing bags tomorrow must be feeling very low now
bad.monkey (National) - 14/12/2018 17:53:25
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 3 Like(s)
This is an absolute scandal. To overspend by €25 million is outrageous.
890202 (National) - 14/12/2018 12:54:30
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 3 Like(s)
Replying To Uimhir.a.3.: "Lol, your last paragraph is straight from the Donald Trump box of fake news. The facts given by Peter Mc Kenna who has had to go public with this & was then relayed by the media is according to you sensationalist, very narrow & without proper analysis, LOL. The only thing without proper analysis was proper QS work & budgeting." Thats your opinion mate, if you have an axe to grind that is fair enough. Many jump to criticism and faux outrage in this digital age.
For a project like this, with a dynamic funding model that was its inception a 30 million over spend is pretty decent as things go. But that is more of a capital economic debate.
When you are looking at capital infrastructure projects, you cant equate it to the one unilateral number, you have to look at a funding value model over many years. You cant just look at overspent of 30 million and say its scandalous. If the project produces a profit of so much a year over 100 years, the cost is negligible long term. Thats why i think the reporting of this sensationalist and narrow. In that time the value of the infrastructure and site is going to grow exponentially.
The same arguments were made when Croke Park was being built and has and will pay for itself many times over, so will PUC. Hence my narrow and sensationalist comments.
In fact the only interesting thing worth debating here is the sea change in ownership of GAA grounds, looks like they may implement a business model similar to Croke Park here.
I think its terrific project for Munster GAA and id like to see more projects like it developed nationally with similar planning and infrastructure if im honest.
No reason why PUC cant host quarter final and semi final games and in the spirit of the sport i think it should, as i think every province should.
Each to their own if you axe to grind though.
TheUsername (National) - 14/12/2018 15:54:02
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 2 Like(s)
so now the gaa's great white elephant is 25m over cost,needing a new pitch,and cork county board have had responsibility for the finances taken off them.
this was a disaster from the word go,nobody wants to play there,getting there is a complete disaster,it is the ultimate example of poor planning,keep on trucking and worry about the costs later.
what a mess.
perfect10 (National) - 14/12/2018 10:48:40
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 2 Like(s)
Way over spend, but im sick of people calling it a white elephant, it had 2 munster hurling games, munster football final, All Ireland QF, 3 Ed Sheeran concerts and Liam Miller match and not to mention county championship games, hardly a white elephant, but that is a massive cost for what they built
PyatPree (National) - 14/12/2018 11:08:31
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 2 Like(s)
The clubs of Cork were never consulted. In 1976 there was over spend too. We were bailed out then by Siamsa and Oliver Barry promotions plus we were handy back then too. We won All Irelands in both codes at senior, dominated underage and our club teams were absolutely dominant meaning huge games in club championships in Cork. Any Stade du Frank has been built. He is gone. Now we pick up the pieces
bennybunny (National) - 14/12/2018 13:58:44
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 2 Like(s)
Replying To Uimhir.a.3.: "For those of us who point out the failure in leadership by those full time salaried people in the Association, here is a classic example. Cork County Board have a number of full time officials, so too the Munster Council & then those in Croke Park. Those in Croke Park have overall responsibility for the whole Association & all its branches. This project was driven by Croke Park/Cork County Board & rode on the coat tails of the RWC application. As pointed out in a great article by Cormac Byrne in the Indo, there were huge question marks from the start, but they were dismissed. One Cork official was quoted as saying they would pay off the debt in two years !!! Let's not forget the initial costing was €70 Million, so it's to date a €40 Million overspend, in most projects if this happened, people would be fired & an investigation launched. This is not even the final figure, so it could go higher & a so called brand new pitch now has to be relaid, which will cost a massive six figure sum & may have to have Hawk Eye be installed for the big games so they can reach the €2 Million mark needed annually to service the debt. The problem within the GAA is the lack of transparency & let's not forget the Cork official at this years Congress who dismissed the CPA's motion on transparency, maybe now we can see why ! Hard questions need to be asked, who was project managing this, why weren't Croke Park overseeing budgets & project management of a multi million Euro project. Will details be made public on where they overspend was. Was tendering & management of same above board, what companies were given contracts & was it all above board, has there been conflict of interest at any stage. What Government or lending institutions would now give the GAA massive sums when they can't even manage their budget or get their costings correct. Sadly as we saw in Galway where there has been another mismanagement of Millions, nobody is named, nobody is accountable, its all sanitised & swept under the carpet, if you question anything you are pilliored, that is why they have been getting away with things, because people don't have the guts to speak up & tell the truth. PUC will now have qualifiers, Munster finals, everything at a cost to everybody else to pay for it. As we saw this year, fans will vote with their feet & not go. I was wondering why the Cork County finals were such a price this year, now we know why. The talk from all now will be of lessons learned, systems put in place, moving forward, all the usual claptrap, when everyone can now see that the Association from top to bottom is rudderless, leaderless, lacking transparency & is rotten to the core." This is one of the best posts ever written here
890202 (National) - 14/12/2018 15:15:25
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 2 Like(s)
With Thurles,Kilarney and Limerick all able to host Munster Finals what was the need for the project in the first place.
gunman (National) - 14/12/2018 17:01:22
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David V Goliath - 2 Like(s)
Replying To gormdubhgorm: "[quote=MesAmis: "I don't believe that I think you are over simplifying it.
A final score does not reflect:
1) the ebb and flow of a game - who was ahead and behind at various stages
2) weather conditions
3) number of shots
4) the type of shots were they close or miles off?
5) who was playing keep ball at the what stages?
6) who was going direct at certain stages etc?
I my view a scoreboard can give a very false refection of a result, particularly where it is three points for a goal, and one for over the bar.
I think the phrase 'the scoreboard never lies' is a misnomer.
You might be confusing it with the league table never lies?
1 - it only matters who is ahead at full time, both teams are aware of this before the game begins.
2 - weather conditions affect both teams, the better team on the day will adapt better or at least as well as their opponents.
3 - number of shots does not matter at all and it is a misnomer to suggest it does, high conversion rates are better and are more important
4 - if it goes a cm wide or 10m wide it does make a difference, neither shot was good enough. You have failed to execute the most important part of the game
5 - possession is a way of getting scores and denying your opposition scores, it is irrelevant if you have high possession but don't turn it into scores - you haven't been good enough to win if that's the case even if you have 90% of the ball.
The point of the game is to score more than your opponent, the score board is all that matters on an individual day, all the possession/shots in the world are irrelevant to deciding who wins a game.
Teams try and keep the ball and create scoring chances in order to score. But if they don't score they have failed to execute the most important part of the game badly and therefore will deserve to lose if the opposition score more than them with less possession/shots.
When people say the 'better team lost' they are wrong. What they are saying is that normally a team with those possession/shot/chances stats would win the game against a team with less possession/shot/chances but they were not good enough at finishing the game. Their opposition were better at finishing their chances and therefore deserve their win." I don't agree with that logic at all sorry!
There are major holes in it of course possession and shots matter as do other external factors (such as luck sendings off etc) which the scoreboard does not tell you.
Anyway fair to Mullinalaghta they won on the scoreboard on the day.
But a closer look needs to paid to the three in a row they won in longford and the five representatives that were on the team that beat Meath in the championship last summer.
That means they are doing a lot right behind the scenes in general. Not just on the scoreboard!"]We'll agree to disagree man.
I see the point your making but just think your argument is more suited to a more prolonged period of time rather than for just one match.
In anyways well done to Mullinalaghta!
MesAmis (National) - 14/12/2018 18:01:24
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David V Goliath - 2 Like(s)
Luck is something fans talk about , top class players never discuss it as they know if they prepare and execute the result should go their way , crokes did not execute and opposition took an opportunity, if they played five more times maybe Crokes would win 4 or so but that matters nothing , Crokes should not have been allowing something as fragile as luck to decide the game , did Crokes have an opportunity to progress yes why didn't they ? Because on the day be it mental or physical they couldn't take it , opposition did and that's the difference
Damothedub (National) - 14/12/2018 18:29:33
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Playing Games In December. - 1 Like(s)
Replying To hurlorhurley: "For the club player the off season is October to March
For the county player the off season is during the club championship" so let me get this straight,you think the off season for the club player is october to march,yet every club back training 1st january?
and the county player off season is during the club championship,do they not play in those games?last time i looked at a county final in wexford in am sure i saw conor mcdonald and rory o connor and all playing.
perfect10 (National) - 14/12/2018 08:43:36
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Playing Games In December. - 1 Like(s)
Replying To perfect10: "so let me get this straight,you think the off season for the club player is october to march,yet every club back training 1st january?
and the county player off season is during the club championship,do they not play in those games?last time i looked at a county final in wexford in am sure i saw conor mcdonald and rory o connor and all playing." Well my club certainly does not go back training until mid to late February. We have been off since the October.
County players training load drops back a lot during club time of the year so technically its there off season.
Normally the Wexford hurlers head off for a holiday during the club championships as well.
Every player club or county will get at least 3-4 weeks of doing completely nothing unless your club wins the county final and ends up on a good run in the provincial championships. At that stage its not hard training its only maintenance of the fitness built up during the season.
Once the county teams start back training the quicker the games start the better to lesson the amount of slogging around mud baths.
If you were a Wexford footballer tomorrow would you prefer to train for two hours in ferns or play a competitive match in New Ross v Laois.
hurlorhurley (National) - 14/12/2018 09:59:36
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Playing Games In December. - 1 Like(s)
i'd prefer to do neither in december.it is totally unnecessary to be training or playing matches at this time of year.
perfect10 (National) - 14/12/2018 10:45:05
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Your County Board - 1 Like(s)
Its thankless but if you put yourself on there you have to be a worker and work with the best interests of the county at heart. Not some lame-ass looking to get a few favours for their clubs.
StoreysTash (National) - 14/12/2018 12:34:00
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 1 Like(s)
If I'm not mistaken, very shortly after completion it was inspected by the world rugby crew with regard to being a venue for Ireland's World Cup bid, it wasn't deemed up to standard by them in many regards. For what was spent on it and given how new it was, that's a slap in the face if ever there was one. White Elephant isn't a misplaced term I feel..
Sweetspot (National) - 14/12/2018 13:21:25
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Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 1 Like(s)
My god its just so disheartening and very timely and sobbering too. There is a reason for venues not being viable financially for hosting big games and games are held there at huge financial losses. Cork are not the only county to have to be bailed out look at Kildare and then the stupidity of hosting a game in a stadium not fit for purpose. We are either in the game of having state of the art facillites or we are not. You cant have it both ways. The main reason my county is forced to play in croke park is to generate income to pay for the likes of PUC. But shocking that something can over run by 25 million what a waste, so disheartening. HQ have to do an audit of facilites and work out redevelopment and upgrade packages for county facillites that are not up to scratch otherwise the GAA will be bankrupted.
arock (National) - 14/12/2018 13:30:53
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