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Padraic Duffy's plan

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Just saw on League Sunday Padraic Duffy's plan that's up at Congress next weekend, what a load of rubbish, a super 8 round robin system at quarter final stage, a number of issues have to be aired, firstly clubs are complaining about not being able to have dates for matches so where is Duffy getting 3 Sundays for these games, secondly no matter what the GAA do, you are going to get mismatches, it's bad enough watching them at earlier stages of provincial championships, thirdly costs, do the GAA think supporters are made of money, if for example Kerry, Donegal and Wexford are in 1 group it means that the GAA expect fans to travel away for 1 game, home for another and the 3rd game in Dublin, die hard fans and season ticket holders will be robbed on ticket, food and fuel prices, as it is most of us hate away matches in the League or qualifiers especially long distance games, if the GAA decide to play Saturdays who is going to get time off work to attend matches.
It is a totally ridiculous idea and has nothing to do with promoting or helping weaker counties.
On the idea of playing the Hurling and Football finals in August is another daft idea, September is our month for the 4 finals, Hurling, Camogie, Football and Ladies Football, why give up our month and in doing so other sports will take the limelight, shorten the champ by starting it later and let the clubs start their club champ in April and be at the quarter final or semi final stage by August bank holiday, I hope his plans are defeated

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 19/02/2017 23:17:40    1958462

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It most certainly does not help the weaker counties. The new format may alienate the smaller counties even more so . I do like the idea of top teams regularly playing each other though.

If the new format gets in and the finals are moved back - then clubs ain't going to have their county lads anyway so moving the finals back becomes futile .

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 19/02/2017 23:38:38    1958465

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I think it's a brilliant idea myself, it does away with the historical inequity of the provincial championship and makes the whole competition fairer. I take the point on the weaker counties, but is it really any different from now, just more games beyond the provincials.

I think it's designed with TV in mind and another step toward professionalism, the only draw back I think will be the extra games and impact on players but like I said, another step toward professionalism.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 19/02/2017 23:55:05    1958471

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I think it's a brilliant idea myself, it does away with the historical inequity of the provincial championship and makes the whole competition fairer. I take the point on the weaker counties, but is it really any different from now, just more games beyond the provincials.

I think it's designed with TV in mind and another step toward professionalism, the only draw back I think will be the extra games and impact on players but like I said, another step toward professionalism."
great for the likes of Dublin

not great for the likes of Louth, Westmeath, Leitrim etc

manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 20/02/2017 08:09:03    1958507

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Replying To manfromdelmonte:  "great for the likes of Dublin

not great for the likes of Louth, Westmeath, Leitrim etc"
Hold on. Louth, Westmeath and Leitrim have never been strong contenders no matter the format, and most likely never will. So lets stop blmaing the formats for their problems or lack of success.

No format will make a weaker county stronger.

Secondly the arguement that the proposed pool takes up extra Sundays and leaves club players twiddling their thumbs. I call BS on this. Every year 24 counties are finished in the championship by the time the Q-Finals start first weekend of August. YET they still cannot or will not run off their local county champtionships. They wait to September and October.

This is also, for me, why the CPA makes no sense. The problems are often within the counties, blaming the 'GAA' or 'Croke Park' is often an easy excuse.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 20/02/2017 09:00:47    1958517

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Replying To witnof:  "Hold on. Louth, Westmeath and Leitrim have never been strong contenders no matter the format, and most likely never will. So lets stop blmaing the formats for their problems or lack of success.

No format will make a weaker county stronger.

Secondly the arguement that the proposed pool takes up extra Sundays and leaves club players twiddling their thumbs. I call BS on this. Every year 24 counties are finished in the championship by the time the Q-Finals start first weekend of August. YET they still cannot or will not run off their local county champtionships. They wait to September and October.

This is also, for me, why the CPA makes no sense. The problems are often within the counties, blaming the 'GAA' or 'Croke Park' is often an easy excuse."
Isn't that the crux of the whole thing???

You have Duffy going around the country this past few months trying to sell this 'Super 8' format.

If he took the same amount of time to visit the County Boards and insist they get their club structures in order, we wouldn't have to be in a situation where club players in the vast majority of counties are sitting on their hands all summer.

Personally I think the new format idea, is just window dressing. Always good for players to get more games but as another poster said, for supporters coming from Donegal, Kerry etc its a hell of a lot more expense.

Within 5 years we will be complaining about it as much as the qualifier system.

Also can someone clarify, the idea is every county in the Q-finals gets a home game, an away game and a game in Croke Park.
Now does that mean Dublin effectively get 2 home games and everyone else just one?

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 20/02/2017 09:38:32    1958528

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manfromdelmonte, the existing system doesn't change though Louth, Leitrim etc still have the same opportunity as always to qualify for the quarterfinals., it not like something is being taken away, everyone starts equally in the provincials.

The Hermit thats a good point on Dublin and Croke park, im not sure the answer myself. Does seem to put Dublin at an advantage though presuming they get that far. It will always be a delicate one, Croke Park is Dublin and that will never change and is part of the history of the City because of that whenever you play Dublin there it will always be a home game for them. The only logical solution is maybe offering counties the choice of bying their Croke park fixture maybe for a neutral venue or a home one? Frankly i can see the GAA not wanting that for obvious reasons and as time goes on the more convinced i am that the GAA want Dublin in Croke Park as much as they can gerrymander. At least we will get a few more away games out of it. but i would definitely acknowledge that it is an advantage for Dublin if they get two games in Croke Park in the super 8.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 20/02/2017 09:57:37    1958540

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Replying To TheUsername:  "manfromdelmonte, the existing system doesn't change though Louth, Leitrim etc still have the same opportunity as always to qualify for the quarterfinals., it not like something is being taken away, everyone starts equally in the provincials.

The Hermit thats a good point on Dublin and Croke park, im not sure the answer myself. Does seem to put Dublin at an advantage though presuming they get that far. It will always be a delicate one, Croke Park is Dublin and that will never change and is part of the history of the City because of that whenever you play Dublin there it will always be a home game for them. The only logical solution is maybe offering counties the choice of bying their Croke park fixture maybe for a neutral venue or a home one? Frankly i can see the GAA not wanting that for obvious reasons and as time goes on the more convinced i am that the GAA want Dublin in Croke Park as much as they can gerrymander. At least we will get a few more away games out of it. but i would definitely acknowledge that it is an advantage for Dublin if they get two games in Croke Park in the super 8."
Your first point is a good one - this does not change anything for 'weaker' counties. I would think something should be done to give weaker counties more championship games. I know Carlow and Laoise (I think) have another proposal which addresses that... maybe that could be looked at in conjunction with this 'super 8' idea. If the 'super 8' goes well for a few years more likely to get more round robin type formats in place down the road... as ever change is slow.

It is a good point on Dublin getting 2 home games...not very fair...but sure isn't the whole system tilted in favour of Dublin! (moaning culchie blah blah)

Potentially the best thing about this proposal is more games in provincial venues. Summer weekends in Kerry, Donegal. Galway...ehhh Navan etc... would be brilliant.

himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 293 - 20/02/2017 11:25:20    1958587

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Replying To riverboys:  "Just saw on League Sunday Padraic Duffy's plan that's up at Congress next weekend, what a load of rubbish, a super 8 round robin system at quarter final stage, a number of issues have to be aired, firstly clubs are complaining about not being able to have dates for matches so where is Duffy getting 3 Sundays for these games, secondly no matter what the GAA do, you are going to get mismatches, it's bad enough watching them at earlier stages of provincial championships, thirdly costs, do the GAA think supporters are made of money, if for example Kerry, Donegal and Wexford are in 1 group it means that the GAA expect fans to travel away for 1 game, home for another and the 3rd game in Dublin, die hard fans and season ticket holders will be robbed on ticket, food and fuel prices, as it is most of us hate away matches in the League or qualifiers especially long distance games, if the GAA decide to play Saturdays who is going to get time off work to attend matches.
It is a totally ridiculous idea and has nothing to do with promoting or helping weaker counties.
On the idea of playing the Hurling and Football finals in August is another daft idea, September is our month for the 4 finals, Hurling, Camogie, Football and Ladies Football, why give up our month and in doing so other sports will take the limelight, shorten the champ by starting it later and let the clubs start their club champ in April and be at the quarter final or semi final stage by August bank holiday, I hope his plans are defeated"
Its a plan thought up by the bean counters to bump up revenues and cover up the fissures happening in inter county football and hurling - does nothing for Weaker counties in football and continues the policy of downgrading hurling at the expense of football. It will get through though as duffy's political career(and that is what it is in the GAA higher schelons) depends on it getting through, the energy he has put into it touring the country and no doubt promising extra revenues to county and provincial boards will swing it, player welfare, club players etc. mean nothing to county boards - its all about the revenue. I see he had Dick Clerkin on to shill on his behalf - protesting that just because the All Ireland is in september why is that a reason to keep it? You could say the exact same about the provincials?
If the GAA was a proper sports organisation they would convene a forum with all parties, county boards, provincial boards, GPA, CPA, managers etc. and sit down and have an open discussion, you'd soon see who had players welfare in mind and who had the bottom line in mind, come up with options, put it to each club in the country and make a binding decision at an EGM. Instead of that it will be backroom deals between croke park and county/provincial boards to divide power and revenues and screw the players

73forever (Limerick) - Posts: 89 - 20/02/2017 11:30:49    1958596

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In the super 8 format Clare and Tipp sadly would get hammered in almost every game, after Galway flopped in quarter finals they would have gotten another chance and sadly Tipp would never have made the semis, no talk about capping spending by counties, just proves Duffy's plan is a money making rack, probably an idea for RTE and Sky to give the GAA more money, nothing to do with helping weaker counties, again September is our month for finals

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 20/02/2017 11:37:16    1958599

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Replying To TheUsername:  "manfromdelmonte, the existing system doesn't change though Louth, Leitrim etc still have the same opportunity as always to qualify for the quarterfinals., it not like something is being taken away, everyone starts equally in the provincials.

The Hermit thats a good point on Dublin and Croke park, im not sure the answer myself. Does seem to put Dublin at an advantage though presuming they get that far. It will always be a delicate one, Croke Park is Dublin and that will never change and is part of the history of the City because of that whenever you play Dublin there it will always be a home game for them. The only logical solution is maybe offering counties the choice of bying their Croke park fixture maybe for a neutral venue or a home one? Frankly i can see the GAA not wanting that for obvious reasons and as time goes on the more convinced i am that the GAA want Dublin in Croke Park as much as they can gerrymander. At least we will get a few more away games out of it. but i would definitely acknowledge that it is an advantage for Dublin if they get two games in Croke Park in the super 8."
I actually double checked there and according to the plan, yes its one home, one away and one in Croke Park, so effectively Dublin would get two home games.

Can't see why that advantage should be allowed for one of the eight teams.

We know that in any sporting competition around the world, home advantage is crucial.

In the case of Dublin the opponent should be allowed the choice of playing there or in a neutral venue.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 20/02/2017 11:39:18    1958602

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I think it's a brilliant idea myself, it does away with the historical inequity of the provincial championship and makes the whole competition fairer. I take the point on the weaker counties, but is it really any different from now, just more games beyond the provincials.

I think it's designed with TV in mind and another step toward professionalism, the only draw back I think will be the extra games and impact on players but like I said, another step toward professionalism."
It does nothing to reduce the Provincial inequality.

The makeup of the last 8 gets determined in the exact same way.

There are a couple of good things in the proposals.

Reducing the number of replays and playing the Provincial championships off more quickly are positive. The group stage part of the proposal could be hit or miss. They'll be seasons when it's a bit dull with little to play for in the last round of fixtures. There'll be years where it could be exciting.

It doesn't do much for weaker counties. These teams will not win anything but it still makes it a more interesting if more teams are competitive. I think this will probably widen the gap between the best and the rest. Not a good thing for the long term health of the game.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 20/02/2017 11:49:28    1958611

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Probably the easiest way to get everybody's opinion on the main 2, that is scrap the quarter finals and bring in a round robin system, play the hurling and football finals in August
Round robin system: No
August finals : No
That's my opinion

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 20/02/2017 11:54:16    1958615

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I like the idea, more matches to play in the new pairc ui choaimh the better (if we manage to get to the super 8s) and also the idea of playing other big teams like Dublin or Tyrone would be great

rebelfan (Cork) - Posts: 70 - 20/02/2017 11:56:57    1958617

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Replying To TheHermit:  "I actually double checked there and according to the plan, yes its one home, one away and one in Croke Park, so effectively Dublin would get two home games.

Can't see why that advantage should be allowed for one of the eight teams.

We know that in any sporting competition around the world, home advantage is crucial.

In the case of Dublin the opponent should be allowed the choice of playing there or in a neutral venue."
It's not much different to the current system where they get a home quarterfinal.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 20/02/2017 12:12:59    1958626

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Padraic Duffy's Super 8 plans are another nail in the coffin of clubs. He knows his proposals on the Super 8 & extra time will go through. His proposal on bringing the All Irl finals forward will be hammered by the Dinosaurs at Congress & was only thrown in by Duffy on that basis as a sop to the clubs. So now there will be four weeks more lost as counties won't allow club games two weeks before Inter County C'ship games. This is done to secure more TV coverage rights with the advent of professionalism coming in, to maximise revenue. Croke Park want professionalism in Gaa before the RWC 2023 lands here & wants to exploit the TV money out there before that RWC happens here. All words from Duffy & O Fearghaíl re clubs & their importance is just empty rhetoric, lip service to appease clubs. Their disdain for the CPA is staggering. The divide between Croke Park, Inter county players, the GPA, Provincial & County Boards on one side & clubs on the other is only going to increase further after this. There is no doubt that it is now a two tier organisation heading for a split. Watching Dick Clerkin last night on RTE was an insult to all club members. Duffy has only one section of the Association at heart. Congress is a joke as its full of people wanting to further their political ambitions within the Gaa, they will do & vote as suits their agenda often in total contrast to what their counties instructed them to do. Delegates sole thoughts at Congress are their Inter County teams, not Joe & Josephine playing & volunteering at the local club. Democracy my h#le, it's the most politically corrupt system in any sporting body.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 20/02/2017 12:20:09    1958629

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Replying To riverboys:  "In the super 8 format Clare and Tipp sadly would get hammered in almost every game, after Galway flopped in quarter finals they would have gotten another chance and sadly Tipp would never have made the semis, no talk about capping spending by counties, just proves Duffy's plan is a money making rack, probably an idea for RTE and Sky to give the GAA more money, nothing to do with helping weaker counties, again September is our month for finals"
Tipp would've had a very good chance of still qualifying. They'd have played a Provincial champion and another qualifier with 1 win from 2 enough for them to go through. It's harder for sure but I don't see why that's a big deal. Sports supposed to be competitive.

I don't understand what's wrong with playing the AI finals earlier. I like the CPA's suggestion of playing the final on the August bank holiday.

As for why knocked out counties don't play off their championships quicker. There's not much point to them doing that when their champions will have to wait around anyway to play the Provincial club championship.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 20/02/2017 12:25:31    1958630

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's not much different to the current system where they get a home quarterfinal."
And a home Leinster semi final and a home Leinster final and a home allireland semifinal and a home allireland final.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 20/02/2017 12:33:32    1958636

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's not much different to the current system where they get a home quarterfinal."
I understand that, but this is a new imitative it is only right the issue should be raised and addressed - especially at a time when there is so much talk about the advantages the Dublin footballers already enjoy.

This is meant to be some sort of elite round robin which will invariably be played among the very best teams, so why would you condone a system that gives one of them a distinct advantage.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 20/02/2017 12:41:48    1958641

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Padraic Duffy's Super 8 plans are another nail in the coffin of clubs. He knows his proposals on the Super 8 & extra time will go through. His proposal on bringing the All Irl finals forward will be hammered by the Dinosaurs at Congress & was only thrown in by Duffy on that basis as a sop to the clubs. So now there will be four weeks more lost as counties won't allow club games two weeks before Inter County C'ship games. This is done to secure more TV coverage rights with the advent of professionalism coming in, to maximise revenue. Croke Park want professionalism in Gaa before the RWC 2023 lands here & wants to exploit the TV money out there before that RWC happens here. All words from Duffy & O Fearghaíl re clubs & their importance is just empty rhetoric, lip service to appease clubs. Their disdain for the CPA is staggering. The divide between Croke Park, Inter county players, the GPA, Provincial & County Boards on one side & clubs on the other is only going to increase further after this. There is no doubt that it is now a two tier organisation heading for a split. Watching Dick Clerkin last night on RTE was an insult to all club members. Duffy has only one section of the Association at heart. Congress is a joke as its full of people wanting to further their political ambitions within the Gaa, they will do & vote as suits their agenda often in total contrast to what their counties instructed them to do. Delegates sole thoughts at Congress are their Inter County teams, not Joe & Josephine playing & volunteering at the local club. Democracy my h#le, it's the most politically corrupt system in any sporting body."
Well said, at its heart this is about TV coverage and little else.

Duffy can swan around the country trying to get this thing passed and yet he can't seem to be bothered to do something as simple as threaten to take away grants to County Boards who do not submit plans to stream line their club championships and have them run off in an efficient manner.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 20/02/2017 13:10:51    1958655

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