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Kerry V Derry

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Watched the highlights from the Sunday Game and but for a few rubs of the green we would be in the final. Maybe squad depth was the real killer. In those last give minutes when energy was draining we just didn't have a few players to come on and help steady things or make a difference like Stephen O'brien. I hate criticising refs but the standard in the two semi-finals was poor I thought and both Dublin and Kerry got soft frees that kept the scoreboard ticking over for them. One final point is that Derry getting off the leash was breathtaking in the first half. Kerry had obviously not planned for it and we're all over the place. Ciaran Meenagh deserves huge credit. He almost pulled it off and tactically he was spot on. Hopefully he takes tye gig permanently. Jazzyjeff (Derry) - Posts: 168 - 17/07/2023 12:11:10 2495064 Link
Disappointed to see OShea on the sunday game last night trying to cover up for the refs favouritism towards Kerry and handing them soft frees by stating there was alot of off the ball hitting going on. He could not have been further form the truth this was a manly contest from both teams played in a great spirit with only one questionable tackle in the entire game. breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 457 - 17/07/2023 12:11:14 2495065 Link
Replying To BaldyBadger: "One thing I noticed from yesterday and it was not even talked about. Shane McGuigan (I think) was dragged down as he was approaching the square. A free was given. However, we were told earlier in the year when Kerry got a penalty against Cork, that a deliberate cynical foul in that situation is a penalty and black card. That is the rule, fair enough. But I said it at the time, that would not be enforced again, and here we are, it's happened for the umpteenth time since and no penalty, or even discussion about it. I'm not saying whether the rule is right or wrong, whether it should have been a penalty or not. I'm saying that the consistency is not there and just not right." I think the problem is, was it a clear goal scoring opportunity? And that is subjective to every referee. Maybe McGuigan himself may not have got a goal but the full back was off his shoulder for a pass. Would that be a goal scoring opportunity or is it judged on the whether the player fouled would have scored the goal himself?? D.Hyde (Roscommon) - Posts: 151 - 17/07/2023 13:13:53 2495086 Link
Replying To BaldyBadger: "One thing I noticed from yesterday and it was not even talked about. Shane McGuigan (I think) was dragged down as he was approaching the square. A free was given. However, we were told earlier in the year when Kerry got a penalty against Cork, that a deliberate cynical foul in that situation is a penalty and black card. That is the rule, fair enough. But I said it at the time, that would not be enforced again, and here we are, it's happened for the umpteenth time since and no penalty, or even discussion about it. I'm not saying whether the rule is right or wrong, whether it should have been a penalty or not. I'm saying that the consistency is not there and just not right." Agree, it was a goal scoring opportunity just like the one Gough gave to Geaney. It could be interpreted that that one was given to Kerry as Paudie was inside and a simple handppass would have resulted in the goal. Similar detail yesterday, full back would have received the handpass and in on goal. Joe Mc will not give these big decisions against the Kerrys/Dublins. There should have been an advantage at best. The Ryan collision: at best again, head injury, game should have stopped We had Joe and his linesman pointing to the ground exactly where Shane could take his free from against Armagh yet Clifford and Co can steal those yards with no interference from the officials. hashtag2017 (Galway) - Posts: 173 - 17/07/2023 13:42:36 2495097 Link
What a game yesterday was , and so many talking points. David Clifford was outstanding but he was closed out of it for periods too and I think that Brendan Rogers was probably the MOTM. Besides those two Shane McGuigan and Stephen O'Brien were both excellent. Kerry definitely would not have won without O'Brien coming on. Lots of talk about the referee. I have no major complaints with the referee on the big calls but over the course of the 70 minutes Kerry definitely got the rub of the green with the marginal calls. Nothing sinister in it as in almost every game the marginal calls are going to favour one team over another but in a tight game that can sometimes be the winning or losing of a game , and I think that ultimately Derry can legitimately claim that a fairer balance of the marginal ones might have seen them win out on the day. On the big big calls I can see why people have different views. I wouldnt have penalised Shane Ryan for the catch and score, but it was close enough to the unacceptable margin where I can see the other argument also. DC was not a yellow card but in real time it looked dangerous. It wasn't until the replay that i saw that it was a brilliant fair shoulder. Likewise Chris McCaigue yellow harsh but he probably avoided one in the second half by the fact that the ref recognised the harshness of the first one ( technically ref's shouldn't do this as each instance should be observed in its own merit, but I agree with the approach taken yesterday) SOS/McKinless issue is one we could talk about for weeks. To my mind SOS action should be a black card offense . But of course if it was done at the start of a game I would not be saying that , and the rules cannot be written to be taking in context of the time and score of the time of the offence. We all know that the kicked response was deliberate but again there is a possible margin and when you consider the context I think the ref handled that one okay. All in all a fascinating day in Croke Park. anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 846 - 17/07/2023 13:55:22 2495102 Link
Replying To Jazzyjeff: "Watched the highlights from the Sunday Game and but for a few rubs of the green we would be in the final. Maybe squad depth was the real killer. In those last give minutes when energy was draining we just didn't have a few players to come on and help steady things or make a difference like Stephen O'brien. I hate criticising refs but the standard in the two semi-finals was poor I thought and both Dublin and Kerry got soft frees that kept the scoreboard ticking over for them. One final point is that Derry getting off the leash was breathtaking in the first half. Kerry had obviously not planned for it and we're all over the place. Ciaran Meenagh deserves huge credit. He almost pulled it off and tactically he was spot on. Hopefully he takes tye gig permanently." Ye're team was magnificent. Kerry had the experience, cooler heads, and self belief at this level that just gives them the edge against just about everyone bar the Dubs. Hard luck yesterday, I was really hoping ye'd pull it off. festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 17/07/2023 14:00:33 2495107 Link
Replying To hashtag2017: "Agree, it was a goal scoring opportunity just like the one Gough gave to Geaney. It could be interpreted that that one was given to Kerry as Paudie was inside and a simple handppass would have resulted in the goal. Similar detail yesterday, full back would have received the handpass and in on goal. Joe Mc will not give these big decisions against the Kerrys/Dublins. There should have been an advantage at best. The Ryan collision: at best again, head injury, game should have stopped We had Joe and his linesman pointing to the ground exactly where Shane could take his free from against Armagh yet Clifford and Co can steal those yards with no interference from the officials." Not sure what you're hinting at as regards favouritism. A Dublin player was hauled down inside the 20 and denied a goal scoring chance against Kildare in Nowlan Pk and got no penalty nor black card warded. It was identical to the Kerry incident against Cork. Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4703 - 17/07/2023 14:12:52 2495112 Link
Replying To UtahBlaine: "You do realize that Garth McKinless was taking a free when Sean o Shea knocked the ball outof his hands ? How could that be a red card" Seanie did as you say, knock the ball out of McKinless hand, presumably to delay the free kick. This common practice is punishable by bringing the free kick nearer to goal and/or the issuing of a yellow card, which the ref did. However, the ball was well gone, when the kick was delivered at the player and could not be described as an attempt to kick the ball. McKinless was understandably frustrated having just missed a one on one goal chance. There was still the (remote) possibility of Derry scoring a late goal and taking it to extra time, when medics took him off, with an apparent serious injury. A red card would have ruled him out of the final had Derry gone on to win the game. giveitlong (Galway) - Posts: 1228 - 17/07/2023 14:22:14 2495117 Link
Replying To giveitlong: "Seanie did as you say, knock the ball out of McKinless hand, presumably to delay the free kick. This common practice is punishable by bringing the free kick nearer to goal and/or the issuing of a yellow card, which the ref did. However, the ball was well gone, when the kick was delivered at the player and could not be described as an attempt to kick the ball. McKinless was understandably frustrated having just missed a one on one goal chance. There was still the (remote) possibility of Derry scoring a late goal and taking it to extra time, when medics took him off, with an apparent serious injury. A red card would have ruled him out of the final had Derry gone on to win the game." Kerry and the fine arts! hashtag2017 (Galway) - Posts: 173 - 17/07/2023 14:25:23 2495120 Link
Replying To Joxer: "Not sure what you're hinting at as regards favouritism. A Dublin player was hauled down inside the 20 and denied a goal scoring chance against Kildare in Nowlan Pk and got no penalty nor black card warded. It was identical to the Kerry incident against Cork." Just watch the game 10:10 each, COC 8 steps to score his point, 61 mins free of the sort variety given for a pick off the ground to put ye 14:12 up, that's what you call favouritism. hashtag2017 (Galway) - Posts: 173 - 17/07/2023 14:36:05 2495123 Link
Replying To Ulsterman: "Clifford scored 9 pts yesterday yet Derry left McKaigue on him. Why? Big big mistake. I know Clifford is a superb player but leaving a fella over 10 years older on him was a tactical error on the part of Derry management. Dublin won't make the same mistake." Dublin will put their best man marker, Mick Fitzsimons, on him. If he's getting taken to the cleaners, what do Dublin do? Put a worse man marker on him? The only alternative is to double or triple mark him and Kerry have enough quality elsewhere to take advantage of the space that would leave. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5028 - 17/07/2023 14:41:46 2495126 Link
Replying To oso: "Are you stating that based on what appears to be your dislike for "kerry men" in general or based on the actual incident that occurred in croke Park yesterday? No one is denying Sean O'shea was being cynical or trying to slow the game up, but you have literally just condoned the actions of a player who deliberately in that instant tried to hurt an opposition player. That's the only "embarassing" thing here." I'll balance the books here by asking you , were you as quick to condemn Ryan O Donaghue for kicking out at Sean Kelly? Was his kick embarrassing. Try and be fair to all teams and not nit pick around matches. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2023 - 17/07/2023 14:53:04 2495130 Link
One thing everyone can agree on is the lack of consistency when it comes to referring. But a lot of the big decisions are not black and white, you could replay something 100 times and there might be 10 different interoperations of it. It's too much for one man, probably need two referees out there. But Derry can only blame themselves, they had several chances when a couple of points ahead to kill the game off, but poor decision making cost them. They left the door open and Kerry duly obliged. You have to slam the door shut against the Kerrys and Dublins of this world. A lot of positives to take for Derry though, Kerry are the best team in the country and they went toe to toe with them and probably should have won. That performance would have beaten any other team in the country yesterday. They came out and attacked and should they are a serious team. Fully expect them to be back next year challenging for the All Ireland. hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 209 - 17/07/2023 15:08:41 2495142 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Best team lost. Derry will rue that. Refs seriously need to look at Kerrys cynical fouling when they loose their men out the field." Kerry have been doing that for years - Billy Morgan pointed that out back in the 70s. In fairness, most teams have a cynical element but it's amazing that there are people (not all from Kerry) who still claim that Kerry concentrate on pure football, which is a bit of a joke at this stage. midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 548 - 17/07/2023 15:09:49 2495143 Link
Replying To Ulsterman: "Clifford scored 9 pts yesterday yet Derry left McKaigue on him. Why? Big big mistake. I know Clifford is a superb player but leaving a fella over 10 years older on him was a tactical error on the part of Derry management. Dublin won't make the same mistake." Dublin will put Fitzy on him I'd imagine. Fitzy is 34, Clifford is 24. Fitzy kept McManus to 2 from play on Sat and for one of those he let McManus drift to the other side of the pitch for another player to pick him up, who didn't. I think Fitzy will be given the task and if Dublin stick a sweeper in there, possibly Howard, then he'll be tasked with stopping the supply to Clifford. On form Fitzy is an itch that can't be scratched for a forward but this is Clifford aged 24, not McManus at 36 or Cillian O'Connor at 31. Stopping the supply will be crucial. Clifford got 5 from play on Sun. Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4703 - 17/07/2023 15:12:11 2495144 Link
Replying To festinog: "Ye're team was magnificent. Kerry had the experience, cooler heads, and self belief at this level that just gives them the edge against just about everyone bar the Dubs. Hard luck yesterday, I was really hoping ye'd pull it off." Thanks. Well compared to the non performance against yourselves in the semi-final last year this was a completely different Derry. I still fully expect to see Galway back at the top table next year. To be honest they are still the one team I fear facing. I wasnt overly fearful of Kerry or Dublin to be quite honest and I think you saw the players knew Kerry could be got at. Without David Clifford they are very beatable. With him they are almost guaranteed 7 points a game before they even start. Yesterday was probably much like the final last year in that we both stayed with Kerry for long periods but as you say in those last ten minutes the know how and self belief got Kerry over the edge. Maybe a Derry vs a galway final next year who knows. Jazzyjeff (Derry) - Posts: 168 - 17/07/2023 15:47:41 2495161 Link
Replying To hashtag2017: "Just watch the game 10:10 each, COC 8 steps to score his point, 61 mins free of the sort variety given for a pick off the ground to put ye 14:12 up, that's what you call favouritism." Con was penalised for a pick up off the found too so he was at least consistent. SimonstownBack (Meath) - Posts: 143 - 17/07/2023 16:02:47 2495170 Link
The one thing I get from this forum is the lack of consistency around refereeing, and by that I mean spelling it. Referring Refering Refereing smallfrank (Galway) - Posts: 372 - 17/07/2023 16:13:56 2495177 Link
Replying To hashtag2017: "Just watch the game 10:10 each, COC 8 steps to score his point, 61 mins free of the sort variety given for a pick off the ground to put ye 14:12 up, that's what you call favouritism." I wouldn't call it favouritism, I'd call it sour grapes. Sure McManus bought two frees. Even the pundits called it. Fitzy was done for a pickup with 2 fellas swinging out of him. Was this all favouritism too? If you ever played the game lad, an extra step and 1mm off the ground calls go either way all the time. It's called human nature and since when has a Northern ref ever been biased towards Dublin over a Northern team? You're grasping at straws. Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4703 - 17/07/2023 16:18:23 2495178 Link
Replying To Saynothing: "I'll balance the books here by asking you , were you as quick to condemn Ryan O Donaghue for kicking out at Sean Kelly? Was his kick embarrassing. Try and be fair to all teams and not nit pick around matches." What does your post even mean? Having been accused of an embarassing post myself I said that the only "embarassing" thing was trying to condone and justify the actions of a player who deliberately tried to the hurt another player because it clearly the said poster has a dislike of "kerry men". You're not balancing anything, I am entitled to post on any specific incident in any specific match I wish.....or not. I'm not here to comment on all games. Are you attempting to apply that old gaa logic that 1 kick justifies another? Or that somehow 2 wrongs make a right? Seriously, I'm lost. Anyone attempting to defend or justify Mckinless's blatant attempt to kick an opponent with that force needs to take a look at themselves. oso (Antrim) - Posts: 168 - 17/07/2023 16:18:24 2495179 Link