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Replying To Eddie the Exile: "Travelled with little hope but sense of duty to support a team under pressure yesterday. For the first time in a very long time, I could say that the team and setup let the county down. I haven't seen as bad as that first half since Fermangh 2002.
The few Kerry supporters beside us were actually disappointed at how easy it was for them. A glorified training session.
"What is up with ye're lads?" was asked a few times. We had no answers in the stand, or on the pitch.
Thus feels like a defining moment for VC. Draw a line and face Louth and Meath with some self respect, or call it a day." Agree and fair play for travelling. Watched it on GAA Go and the pundits more or less wrote us off for the year afterwards save Murphy who was just being respectful to an old rival. Make no mistake that first half wouldn't cut it in div 3 even it was that bad the wheels totally came off . A complete massacre at one stage looked on the cards. Think they need to go back to basics play the younger lads. Let the next generation take over. There are better ways to lose a match than performance yesterday.
seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1811 - 19/05/2024 11:02:02
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Replying To MonaghanMan44life: "Never have I ever seen a worse 35mins in a Monaghan jersey.
Unlike the Vinny/clontiberet supporters in the group who like to make excuses, I put the full blame in Vinny's lap. The tactical set up or lack there of is unbelievable at this level. He simple does not know how to set a team up other than his normal effort of putting square pegs in circle holes. Somebody tell me I didn't see Karl O'C in for the throw in at start of second half?!
The injury issues which Vinny loves to pedal as an excuse is ridiculous, it's his and his back room teams fault for the injuries! The talk coming out of the camp regarding training etc is disgraceful and player welfare is non existent.
Vinny got lucky last year with the draw, we just about beat a terrible Kildare team (look where they are now) and made a semi final by default. If Banty etc was at the helm he'd have the big mouths at his front door Monday morning after that rubbish today.
Get that bluffer Vinny & his brother out of Monaghan." Well you are a "Johney come Lately" then. Such nonsense been written on this forum. Some want to drop all the newcomers another wants to get rid of all the experience. We went down to play a team who were a whisker away from being two time All Ireland champions. A team that will be right there come final day in July this year. And in their own backyard also. How many of you experts were actually in Killarney yesterday. Believe me the bandwagon lads were all missing yesterday. Who in their right mind could think that a county of Monaghan's size could rebuild in a few months. It was always going to be a 5 year plan after the carry on of the previous 3 years. Yes there are a couple of players not going to make it but will have to be retained until better can found. I expected a defeat in high double digits yesterday and it could very easily have been that. We will get it hard to beat Louth or Meath but I have no doubt the good days will come again. If you feel the need to always be at the top table, then move to the well populated counties of Dublin, Kerry, Mayo or " Cork".
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 157 - 19/05/2024 12:53:56
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Replying To seanie08: "Gives me no pleasure in saying it but serious questions need to be asked about mgmt after this total shambles." Totally agree with this the management has to stand up here they are showing no plan to fix this problem just saying the usual it's the injuries that has us this way ,look at your defence its a shambles ,Ryan O,Toole in my opinion and have seen him in alot of club games is not worth his place on a div4 team he can't man Mark to save his life ,he on team in my opinion from scoring a goal last year,move on vinny look around your county,and the older boys just can't live with the pace ,they have served there county its time to stand down and let the new blood in along with a trainer and manager that knows game plans,look the differ that ger brennan has made to louth already and we turned him away ,probably wouldn't have suited North monaghan and county board .No way guna beat louth or meath with this team .
Blanket (Monaghan) - Posts: 40 - 19/05/2024 13:22:46
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Well you are a "Johney come Lately" then. Such nonsense been written on this forum. Some want to drop all the newcomers another wants to get rid of all the experience. We went down to play a team who were a whisker away from being two time All Ireland champions. A team that will be right there come final day in July this year. And in their own backyard also. How many of you experts were actually in Killarney yesterday. Believe me the bandwagon lads were all missing yesterday. Who in their right mind could think that a county of Monaghan's size could rebuild in a few months. It was always going to be a 5 year plan after the carry on of the previous 3 years. Yes there are a couple of players not going to make it but will have to be retained until better can found. I expected a defeat in high double digits yesterday and it could very easily have been that. We will get it hard to beat Louth or Meath but I have no doubt the good days will come again. If you feel the need to always be at the top table, then move to the well populated counties of Dublin, Kerry, Mayo or " Cork"." Everyone knows we're a team in transition etc but that first half performance yesterday was diabolical, we couldn't even get the basics right. Sorry but you can't make any excuses for that display, something seriously wrong with the whole Monaghan set up at the moment.
Blackcardnot (USA) - Posts: 16 - 19/05/2024 14:43:52
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Well you are a "Johney come Lately" then. Such nonsense been written on this forum. Some want to drop all the newcomers another wants to get rid of all the experience. We went down to play a team who were a whisker away from being two time All Ireland champions. A team that will be right there come final day in July this year. And in their own backyard also. How many of you experts were actually in Killarney yesterday. Believe me the bandwagon lads were all missing yesterday. Who in their right mind could think that a county of Monaghan's size could rebuild in a few months. It was always going to be a 5 year plan after the carry on of the previous 3 years. Yes there are a couple of players not going to make it but will have to be retained until better can found. I expected a defeat in high double digits yesterday and it could very easily have been that. We will get it hard to beat Louth or Meath but I have no doubt the good days will come again. If you feel the need to always be at the top table, then move to the well populated counties of Dublin, Kerry, Mayo or " Cork"." Speaking of nonsense written on this forum:
Last month:
Monaghan football is in a good place. Onwards and Upwards.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 139 - 11/04/2024 03:01:43
And now:
It was always going to be a 5 year plan after the carry on of the previous 3 years.
Well which is it?
A 5 year plan? That's the guff Stephen Kenny was selling to the FAI. 5 year plans went out with the communist party in the USSR about 1991.
MOR turned it around in 1 year. Who has got 5 years to wait? That's half an intercounty career for most players.
Also, it's none of your business if people were at the game or not, and if people are bothered to sign up to a forum about Monaghan GAA it's a safe assumption that they are interested and entitled to their opinion. If you don't agree, just say why.
I still think there was a level of complacency in the team after last year, and it'll be difficult to start a turnaround now.
Who'll drive the team on - we'll find out for sure in a couple of weeks.
PolicemanFox (Monaghan) - Posts: 163 - 19/05/2024 18:50:18
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Replying To Blanket: "Totally agree with this the management has to stand up here they are showing no plan to fix this problem just saying the usual it's the injuries that has us this way ,look at your defence its a shambles ,Ryan O,Toole in my opinion and have seen him in alot of club games is not worth his place on a div4 team he can't man Mark to save his life ,he on team in my opinion from scoring a goal last year,move on vinny look around your county,and the older boys just can't live with the pace ,they have served there county its time to stand down and let the new blood in along with a trainer and manager that knows game plans,look the differ that ger brennan has made to louth already and we turned him away ,probably wouldn't have suited North monaghan and county board .No way guna beat louth or meath with this team ." Didn't Ger Brennan turn us down..?
Everyone loves giving out about RO'T and Wylie.. who in the county is a better corner back? The answer to that question (among players available for selection) is: nobody.
People of Monaghan need to readjust their expectations. The standard of player in the county now is of a mid table Division 2 standard.
HB245 (Monaghan) - Posts: 207 - 19/05/2024 21:36:44
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Replying To BrehonBlonde: "The county are at a critical juncture. They are a squad on their last legs, with wholesale required. The advantage of being in Division 2 next year is that a rebuild can take place. Is Vinny the man for the job? I think he has to be given the chance at least. Is there anyone better?" To be honest based on last year he was the man but can't see him (or backroom team) staying past this year. Not great reports from the camp, players being flogged in training after the Ulster defeat wasn't the way forward and our injury record is terrible (although most counties suffering a bit with this). Stopping even fringe players from playing club league games and then not even bringing them to Kerry at the weekend is another poor move.
sporto (Monaghan) - Posts: 160 - 20/05/2024 10:42:55
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There sure is a lot of despondency over the thumping from Kerry.
Can't say I was surprised by this performance as we've seen more of this type of performance than other years. Flat, lacking urgency and littered with unforced errors which sadly has become Monaghan's trademark this year. The games against Cavan, Roscommon, Kerry and Derry had so many unforced errors. Ask any football coach and they'll always equate unforced errors with lack of focus be that collective or individual. And that means standards have dropped within the group. If that kind of performance happens once, you write it off as a once off, if it happens repeatedly across most game then there's a problem. Donegal went from being a basket case last year to ulster champs with largely the same group of players. What changed was a new manager who raised the standards.
Over the past few years Monaghan have mostly tended to ignore any number of league defeats to raise themselves for championship and came back with fight and grit. If this were a Premier League team, the management would be sacked by now. When things are going that bad, something needs to change - either you radically change the team and/or change management. We see this all the time in soccer when some team is stinking the place out. But this is Gaelic football and that's not going to happen this season.
Corey did a great job last year. The draw was kind but still, he did a great job. You also have to admit that he was taking over a team in transition with key 9 players over 30 and most of that cohort 33 or over. That includes many of Monaghan's best ever players. That's some serious change. The team is going to go through some tough times with that kind of turn over in players. On the management, there has to be serious questions about the S&C program. Having that amount of soft tissue issues over the course of the season must have some link to what programs the players are on.
The minor teams between 2014 and 2017 and U20 teams between 2017 and 2019 have yielded few players who've become senior regulars. Players in their mid 20's should be forming the backbone and bulk of the senior team. Those underage teams in the aforementioned years were also poor so you can't say it's much of a surprise we are where we are. We had an excellent U20 this year and a brilliant minor team last year. There is amazing talent to come through in the next few years. Monaghan are stuck with one foot in the present and one foot in the future.
sleater (Monaghan) - Posts: 155 - 20/05/2024 13:21:35
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Replying To PolicemanFox: "Speaking of nonsense written on this forum:
Last month:
Monaghan football is in a good place. Onwards and Upwards.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 139 - 11/04/2024 03:01:43
And now:
It was always going to be a 5 year plan after the carry on of the previous 3 years.
Well which is it?
A 5 year plan? That's the guff Stephen Kenny was selling to the FAI. 5 year plans went out with the communist party in the USSR about 1991.
MOR turned it around in 1 year. Who has got 5 years to wait? That's half an intercounty career for most players.
Also, it's none of your business if people were at the game or not, and if people are bothered to sign up to a forum about Monaghan GAA it's a safe assumption that they are interested and entitled to their opinion. If you don't agree, just say why.
I still think there was a level of complacency in the team after last year, and it'll be difficult to start a turnaround now.
Who'll drive the team on - we'll find out for sure in a couple of weeks." Well if you hadn't proved it before you certainly have now. You are totally brainless when it comes to understanding what a team in transition is. Amateur gaelic football and the professional game of soccer are two different entities. My suggestion, is that you stick to your love of the foreign game and your identity of come manager go manager. In the middle of all your guff you mentioned my stating (1) Monaghan football is in a good place, and (2) that the transition for our senior team is a lengthy process. All you have done is prove that you are a sunshine supporter. On my first point we were All Ireland Minor finalist last year and followed by the fantastic performances of our Under 20 team this year who eventually lost out by 1 point to Tyrone, a team who after they got past Derry, gave Roscommon and Kerry good beatings to claim the All Ireland. Having been to all Monaghan under age games over the past few years, I have no hesitation in say Monaghan football is in a good place. Secondly to the 5 year project,as I stated before, we are not Dublin or Kerry. We don't have the numbers to transition overnight. With 3 wasted years flogging a dead horse and pretending it was a professional sport,it was always going to be a long time project to rebuild. That was likely the time that you came on board as a supporter. Well sorry lad but it is not soccccer.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 157 - 20/05/2024 17:41:04
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Replying To sleater: "There sure is a lot of despondency over the thumping from Kerry.
Can't say I was surprised by this performance as we've seen more of this type of performance than other years. Flat, lacking urgency and littered with unforced errors which sadly has become Monaghan's trademark this year. The games against Cavan, Roscommon, Kerry and Derry had so many unforced errors. Ask any football coach and they'll always equate unforced errors with lack of focus be that collective or individual. And that means standards have dropped within the group. If that kind of performance happens once, you write it off as a once off, if it happens repeatedly across most game then there's a problem. Donegal went from being a basket case last year to ulster champs with largely the same group of players. What changed was a new manager who raised the standards.
Over the past few years Monaghan have mostly tended to ignore any number of league defeats to raise themselves for championship and came back with fight and grit. If this were a Premier League team, the management would be sacked by now. When things are going that bad, something needs to change - either you radically change the team and/or change management. We see this all the time in soccer when some team is stinking the place out. But this is Gaelic football and that's not going to happen this season.
Corey did a great job last year. The draw was kind but still, he did a great job. You also have to admit that he was taking over a team in transition with key 9 players over 30 and most of that cohort 33 or over. That includes many of Monaghan's best ever players. That's some serious change. The team is going to go through some tough times with that kind of turn over in players. On the management, there has to be serious questions about the S&C program. Having that amount of soft tissue issues over the course of the season must have some link to what programs the players are on.
The minor teams between 2014 and 2017 and U20 teams between 2017 and 2019 have yielded few players who've become senior regulars. Players in their mid 20's should be forming the backbone and bulk of the senior team. Those underage teams in the aforementioned years were also poor so you can't say it's much of a surprise we are where we are. We had an excellent U20 this year and a brilliant minor team last year. There is amazing talent to come through in the next few years. Monaghan are stuck with one foot in the present and one foot in the future." Can't argue with most of your post. What you stated is reality. Not like some of the nonsense being posted.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 157 - 20/05/2024 17:43:19
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it was a different kind of loss on saturday to others this year. instead of being poor in defence we were poor in attack and kerry capitalised. I havent watched the game back, nor do i intend to, but id guess 70% of kerry's first half scores came from turnover ball in the forwards...there's no excuse for such a poor defeat and agree with MonaghanMan44life that if it was banty we'd all be calling for his head.... but because i like Vinny, ill throw this out - individually the match-ups weren't far off and we didn't concede any goals against one of the best teams in the country which is a huge improvement on every other game this year. I'm hoping the mistakes were down to rustiness but we're running out of excuses now.
The second half was better but, paraphrasing an RTE report - Kerry dropped from 3rd gear to 2nd gear to see out the game.
So yea agree with the vast majority here it was poisonous to watch
MalsBalls (Monaghan) - Posts: 189 - 21/05/2024 08:24:51
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Well if you hadn't proved it before you certainly have now. You are totally brainless when it comes to understanding what a team in transition is. Amateur gaelic football and the professional game of soccer are two different entities. My suggestion, is that you stick to your love of the foreign game and your identity of come manager go manager. In the middle of all your guff you mentioned my stating (1) Monaghan football is in a good place, and (2) that the transition for our senior team is a lengthy process. All you have done is prove that you are a sunshine supporter. On my first point we were All Ireland Minor finalist last year and followed by the fantastic performances of our Under 20 team this year who eventually lost out by 1 point to Tyrone, a team who after they got past Derry, gave Roscommon and Kerry good beatings to claim the All Ireland. Having been to all Monaghan under age games over the past few years, I have no hesitation in say Monaghan football is in a good place. Secondly to the 5 year project,as I stated before, we are not Dublin or Kerry. We don't have the numbers to transition overnight. With 3 wasted years flogging a dead horse and pretending it was a professional sport,it was always going to be a long time project to rebuild. That was likely the time that you came on board as a supporter. Well sorry lad but it is not soccccer." LOL - is soccccer a trigger word for you?
You stick to the 5 year plans and standing outside the ground with your clipboard checking who is going in and we'll see how that works out in 2029.
You should also read what people actually post instead of having a hissy fit and throwing out the insults because that is some amount of absolutely undirected hysterical crud you've produced. I'm still not any clearer about what you are actually saying in reply to my post. And I'm starting to think you aren't the age your username would indicate.
Just for the record, losing by 1 point in the U20s to Tyrone is not a good indication for Monaghan's future.
Tyrone have taken the opportunity to get better and Monaghan have missed it. There's now a huge gap in development and attainment between players in the two sides. One knows they can do it and will be looking forward to senior and following the Mattie Donnelly's and McShane's and turning their underage medals into senior medals. They know they can do it. No Monaghan player will have that feeling unfortunately.
PolicemanFox (Monaghan) - Posts: 163 - 21/05/2024 09:28:20
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Replying To PolicemanFox: "LOL - is soccccer a trigger word for you?
You stick to the 5 year plans and standing outside the ground with your clipboard checking who is going in and we'll see how that works out in 2029.
You should also read what people actually post instead of having a hissy fit and throwing out the insults because that is some amount of absolutely undirected hysterical crud you've produced. I'm still not any clearer about what you are actually saying in reply to my post. And I'm starting to think you aren't the age your username would indicate.
Just for the record, losing by 1 point in the U20s to Tyrone is not a good indication for Monaghan's future.
Tyrone have taken the opportunity to get better and Monaghan have missed it. There's now a huge gap in development and attainment between players in the two sides. One knows they can do it and will be looking forward to senior and following the Mattie Donnelly's and McShane's and turning their underage medals into senior medals. They know they can do it. No Monaghan player will have that feeling unfortunately." 2929......you can't even count lad. Says it all about your daft postings.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 157 - 21/05/2024 09:55:49
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Replying To PolicemanFox: "LOL - is soccccer a trigger word for you?
You stick to the 5 year plans and standing outside the ground with your clipboard checking who is going in and we'll see how that works out in 2029.
You should also read what people actually post instead of having a hissy fit and throwing out the insults because that is some amount of absolutely undirected hysterical crud you've produced. I'm still not any clearer about what you are actually saying in reply to my post. And I'm starting to think you aren't the age your username would indicate.
Just for the record, losing by 1 point in the U20s to Tyrone is not a good indication for Monaghan's future.
Tyrone have taken the opportunity to get better and Monaghan have missed it. There's now a huge gap in development and attainment between players in the two sides. One knows they can do it and will be looking forward to senior and following the Mattie Donnelly's and McShane's and turning their underage medals into senior medals. They know they can do it. No Monaghan player will have that feeling unfortunately." he wants to burst all soccer balls :)
patmouse (Monaghan) - Posts: 114 - 21/05/2024 15:39:06
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Replying To patmouse: "he wants to burst all soccer balls :)" Brother helping brother. Why don't you you both tip over to Tyrone and claim your medals. Maybe even attend a few club games there as you don't seem to attend many in Monaghan.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 157 - 21/05/2024 21:58:17
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When McCarthy blew that open goal we were a busted flush, he kicked it in the only place the keeper could possibly save it.
There seems be a distinct lack of football nous throughout the team at the moment, it's as if they don't expect contact, interceptions, tackles or even an awareness that the opposition may set up to regain possession. running into contact time and time again. Anyone been watching what Louth excell at recently
Began hovering on the halfway line essentially slowing the game down time and time again to allow the opposition to get into shape, if he comes forward it should be to carry the ball on the overlap
Louth will ready for this, however we will be hard to beat in Clones it's 50/50 for me, regardless we need to change tactics and maybe try some contact training beforehand and in the future
mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1046 - 22/05/2024 10:11:37
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good article by Darragh O'Se in the Indo this morning on the Monaghan game. I think the end of the article sums up where the Monaghan players heads are at the moment, they just want this season to be over.
I expect Monaghan to get well beaten by Louth and for Meath to also beat us. I hope I'm wrong but the reaction we were expecting against Kerry after the Cavan game did not happen, it was an even worse performance.
From the Kerry game, it just seems like Corey has lost the dressing room as players are not willing to put in the effort for him, it remains to be seen if he can recover the situation and if he'll be in charge next year or not, as we can't let the rot to continue.
We still have good talent in the county and we don't want to fall further from Div 2.
Over the past 18-20 years, I was always a very proud Monaghan man watching our team play as even when we didn't have the luck or confidence at times to beat the bigger teams in championship matches, we came very close. we certainly put up a good fight and every team were afraid of playing Monaghan. Even if we don't win the next two games, I want to see this Monaghan fight and agression again and restore some pride in the Jersey. These players didn't turn into bad players over night, its all about attitude now.
Just wondering, why wasn't Mooney brought on against Kerry ? he's the shining star from this years U20 team and I think should be given more game time now in the remaining two games.
SouthMonMan (Monaghan) - Posts: 106 - 22/05/2024 11:18:43
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A proper post mortem needed probably when we exit. It's been a poor year hampered by injuries and a lack of form along little energy from team or management. Reminds of malachy in 2019. Louth will certainly relish playing us especially if they beat meath Sunday. Even if we muster up a win against the royals, it's very unlikely we will beating Derry, tyrone or mayo who prob will drop to second in their groups. That's why the louth game is huge. We are in an era of transition, patience is needed and vinnie needs to build a new team around younger lads even if this means dropping older lads. You could see Manzy and Karl really struggling on Saturday, they are now impact players at best. There is no shame in saying that. Last sat was unacceptable. Vinnie needs to get a tune out of them over the next month or he will be under pressure if the season fizzles out. I was amazed at how unfit we looked and our lack of sharpness, I recall one kerry player beating two monaghan players to the ball on one stage when he had no right. Who is in charge of s and c?
222 (UK) - Posts: 707 - 22/05/2024 16:15:01
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I'm stating the obvious here but we haven't for whatever reason been able to bring through enough players from successful minor teams esp in defence. We won back to back minors in ulster 18/19 five six years ago and how many players have come through from those sides to be regular main stays of the quality of the lads who have now either retired or just left the scene. Off hand apart from mcenespie and Mccarthy from 2013 ulster winning minor side its hard to recall any minors past 10 years who have cemented a place in the side. Dessie Ward who is quality also of that vintage has been v unlucky with injuries. I'm not sure if that has been down to us playing experienced players all the time in a bid to stay in div 1. Maybe we are making that drop to div 2 too late in the day and haven't blooded the lads we needed to in that time. The point being we may end up blooding players in likely div 3 in a few years before we bounce back. Have no doubt the talent is there but patience badly needed now for a few years of long overdue pull back in form while lads come through. We ain't kerry or dublin with b sides better than most county sides.
seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1811 - 24/05/2024 13:21:02
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Well done to the Inniskeen club on hosting an All Ireland series game yesterday. The grounds and stewarding were excellent. Way ahead of any venue in either of the counties hosted.
On the pitch, Meath were even more dire than Monaghan last week. When these 2 meet it will be hard to tell who wants to lose more, because neither panel looks interested in prolonging the summer.
Louth were really very good without being brilliant, super organised and committed, with plenty of attacking threat. They will arrive in Clones full of intent.
The reports of chaotic arrangements for the Kerry trip for some panel players are very disappointing. Was that a cause or a symptom of morale being on the floor in the Monaghan panel? Probably a bit of both.
Vinny and Co. need to close the gates of Cloghan this week and sort it out.
Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1068 - 26/05/2024 11:41:59
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