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Sunday Game Hurling Team

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Replying To jfk21:  "John mullanes championship record is 3.8 scores per gamefrom play. Henry sheflin is 2.9, Eddy Berennan,2.9. If a forward job is scoring from, Mullane has to be on any team. Shefflin and Brennans would have top up their average scores by quit a lot by playing in a dire Leinster championship! Its easier to score against Laois,Carlow,Westmeath,etc than against Cork, Tipp or Clare."
Ya you're spot on with Mullane. It was rare that he didnt score 0-4 in a game. I think even in the 2008 hammering he may have even got 0-4 from play - if memory serves me correctly. In a game against Tipp one time he scored 4/5 and was fouled for 4/5 more also.

I'm not knocking the importance of free takers but I'd be interested to see scores from play of the current generation. I done a calculation a year or two ago on Reid, Canning and Noel McGrath and McGrath had actually double the average scores from play of the other two.

If anyone has any stats or links it would be interesting to see. I'd imagine John McGrath would be high up on the list of current players.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 2839 - 27/05/2020 20:43:42    2279355

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Ya you're spot on with Mullane. It was rare that he didnt score 0-4 in a game. I think even in the 2008 hammering he may have even got 0-4 from play - if memory serves me correctly. In a game against Tipp one time he scored 4/5 and was fouled for 4/5 more also.

I'm not knocking the importance of free takers but I'd be interested to see scores from play of the current generation. I done a calculation a year or two ago on Reid, Canning and Noel McGrath and McGrath had actually double the average scores from play of the other two.

If anyone has any stats or links it would be interesting to see. I'd imagine John McGrath would be high up on the list of current players."
I'm not bashing free takers either.For aguements sake , if Mullane scored free at shefflins ( averaged 5pts a game from frees) , Canning or and other top free takers rate, score per game ratio goes to 8.8 a game , Shefflins career average was 8pts a game. McGrath's record on wiki is 5.122pts in 52 game an average of over 2.6pts a game and that's great scoring ,way better than Reid's at a guess . Mullane is out on his own with scores per game ! He should walk on this team...games 47, scores 15goals134 pts , average of 3.8. . For the record Corbett is 29.82pts in 53 games, an average almost 3.2 pts a game

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 41 - 28/05/2020 01:42:52    2279367

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Replying To jfk21:  "I'm not bashing free takers either.For aguements sake , if Mullane scored free at shefflins ( averaged 5pts a game from frees) , Canning or and other top free takers rate, score per game ratio goes to 8.8 a game , Shefflins career average was 8pts a game. McGrath's record on wiki is 5.122pts in 52 game an average of over 2.6pts a game and that's great scoring ,way better than Reid's at a guess . Mullane is out on his own with scores per game ! He should walk on this team...games 47, scores 15goals134 pts , average of 3.8. . For the record Corbett is 29.82pts in 53 games, an average almost 3.2 pts a game"
Stats don't lie but statisticians do. The reason Henry, Joe Canning or the likes are considered great is in big games during big moments they came up big. Not saying Mullane shouldn't be on the team anyone can make an argument for him, great player with a great heart, but leave the statistics at home and just watch the games.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 109 - 28/05/2020 11:03:10    2279375

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Replying To gatha:  "Stats don't lie but statisticians do. The reason Henry, Joe Canning or the likes are considered great is in big games during big moments they came up big. Not saying Mullane shouldn't be on the team anyone can make an argument for him, great player with a great heart, but leave the statistics at home and just watch the games."
Good points there gatha. Scoring stats tell us somehing but there's much more to consider. What they call "assists" in other codes should also come into the equation but again there is much more. The two men you mention (Shefflin and Canning) regularly "took games by the scruff of the neck" and hauled their teams back into games that were slipping away from them. Eoin Kelly often did the same for Tipp and there are others who could be put in that category also. The guy who wins a vital free seldom gets enough credit, and sometimes the freetaker himself wins many of the frees, but bare statistics never tell even half the story.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 161 - 28/05/2020 12:14:54    2279378

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Replying To midlands:  "Good points there gatha. Scoring stats tell us somehing but there's much more to consider. What they call "assists" in other codes should also come into the equation but again there is much more. The two men you mention (Shefflin and Canning) regularly "took games by the scruff of the neck" and hauled their teams back into games that were slipping away from them. Eoin Kelly often did the same for Tipp and there are others who could be put in that category also. The guy who wins a vital free seldom gets enough credit, and sometimes the freetaker himself wins many of the frees, but bare statistics never tell even half the story."
Yes exactly but You'll find these high scoring forward such as Mullane won a lot of those frees. Anyone who has an average of almost 4 points a game in a team that wouldn't actually be hammering everyone around them like kk were - deserves to be higher up on the list.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 2839 - 28/05/2020 16:52:39    2279396

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There's no way that their should be 3 Tipp players in the full forward line

Maroonforever (Galway) - Posts: 354 - 29/05/2020 16:25:20    2279449

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Replying To jfk21:  "John mullanes championship record is 3.8 scores per gamefrom play. Henry sheflin is 2.9, Eddy Berennan,2.9. If a forward job is scoring from, Mullane has to be on any team. Shefflin and Brennans would have top up their average scores by quit a lot by playing in a dire Leinster championship! Its easier to score against Laois,Carlow,Westmeath,etc than against Cork, Tipp or Clare."
Disingenuous argument, off the top of my head, and open to correction, but I don't think Brennan or Shefflin ever played Carlow or Laois in championship, and maybe played Westmeath once. Scored plenty against Dublin, Offaly and Wexford, granted, but then again they scored plenty in All Ireland finals too.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1094 - 29/05/2020 22:54:51    2279476

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Replying To Maroonforever:  "There's no way that their should be 3 Tipp players in the full forward line"
The Tipp voting public seem to have had an inordinate influence on the make up of the team. I'm surprised Michael Lowry and Mattie McGrath weren't named in the half forward line.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1094 - 29/05/2020 22:56:54    2279477

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Replying To ballydalane:  "Disingenuous argument, off the top of my head, and open to correction, but I don't think Brennan or Shefflin ever played Carlow or Laois in championship, and maybe played Westmeath once. Scored plenty against Dublin, Offaly and Wexford, granted, but then again they scored plenty in All Ireland finals too."
Disingenuous alright , you can only play what's in front of you ! Trying to make a better case for Mullane ! One or 9 all ireland does not make you the greatest player ever . Ciaran Whelan started the year after Dublin won an all ireland , retired the year before their next. if around at the right time he would have 5 in a row , maybe won 7 in a row or 10 in total ,same player. If point per game are an irrelevant stastic so are medals won when picking a team.

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 41 - 30/05/2020 00:43:32    2279486

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Replying To ballydalane:  "The Tipp voting public seem to have had an inordinate influence on the make up of the team. I'm surprised Michael Lowry and Mattie McGrath weren't named in the half forward line."
Now now lay off Michael and Mattie. I'd have Phil Hogan who - threatened to turn off anyones water who didn't pay the water charge in the forwards before either of them (;-).

Coopers_Helmet (Tipperary) - Posts: 154 - 30/05/2020 11:26:46    2279506

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Replying To Coopers_Helmet:  "Now now lay off Michael and Mattie. I'd have Phil Hogan who - threatened to turn off anyones water who didn't pay the water charge in the forwards before either of them (;-)."
I will take my Kilkenny 15 against the country
Manager B. Cody
Murphy
W. O'Connor
Hickey
Tyrell
Walsh
G Henderson
JJ
Cummins
Fenelly
TJ
Henry
Larkin
Brennan
DJ
Hogan
subs
N. Skehan, R.Power, J Hennessey, P. Murphy, E. Morrissey, B. Fitzpatrick

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 109 - 30/05/2020 13:10:15    2279519

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