National Forum

The Sliotar Weight

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Replying To Mayonman:  "I'll say something sacrilegious now....... I think the extra distance the ball (for whatever reason) is travelling could potentially ruin the game.

For all the hype about the great games of the last couple of years I am not overly enjoying them. Lots of 70 yard points and a not enough man on man battles or going into contact.

Galway Tipp trilogy was brilliant. But hurling possession game is starting to bore me. Teams can take scores from so far it leads to less battles."
100%... The ball needs to spend longer in play. Some of the best hurling moments is when there are no scores just battle after battle around the field. It still does happen from time to time but we got more of it in the past. I think Tipp and KK had an epic example in a league game a few years ago when the ball stayed in play for several minutes. Its brilliant to watch but it doesn't happen often enough.
Too much handpassing isnt helping!

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 07/04/2020 18:35:44    2275501

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "You can be HOTY and MOTM playing midfield in the modern game cos you have to have a good engine to cover every blade of grass to play there but since bunching and rucks and swarming is an unattractive part of our game imo going 13 a side could improve it as a spectacle. Theres no such thing as midfield anymore in terms of a defined position , theres a middle 8, and if the 2 who are nominally in the middle were taken out of it to make 13 a side at least there would be far less bunching and fewer rucks."
I don't think you have thought 13 a side through? Have a serious think about it, name the actual positions think of how the game would be played. We could re name it piggy in the middle. 13 a side games are common in lower grade hurling and camogie. Inter county SH is a total different ball game.

The "ruck" in hurling has become a skill on its own. Google Cian Lynch pick up and see what you get.

Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 07/04/2020 21:34:16    2275510

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Replying To Mayonman:  "I'll say something sacrilegious now....... I think the extra distance the ball (for whatever reason) is travelling could potentially ruin the game.

For all the hype about the great games of the last couple of years I am not overly enjoying them. Lots of 70 yard points and a not enough man on man battles or going into contact.

Galway Tipp trilogy was brilliant. But hurling possession game is starting to bore me. Teams can take scores from so far it leads to less battles."
I fully agree with you and combined with short puck outs I think its removing a lot of the unpredictability out of the game. Drives me mad waiting for a full forward to walk a hundred metres from his own goal to take a free (Joe included). A simple rule change like all frees outside the 70 having to be kept in play would make for a better game in my opinion.
As regards the ball,it may not be much lighter than before, but its definitely more moisture resistant and crucially more 'rubbery' for want of a better word which means it propels faster upon impact with the hurl. I remember in the 80s scoring a 70 was considered an achievement for an adult player, nowadays youd be dissappointed if a fourteen year old missed one

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 147 - 07/04/2020 22:42:56    2275515

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Few posters here sound like Babs in disguise. You'd swear the quality of games was declining at an awful rate!

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 08/04/2020 03:44:29    2275519

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Replying To UtahBlaine:  "I fully agree with you and combined with short puck outs I think its removing a lot of the unpredictability out of the game. Drives me mad waiting for a full forward to walk a hundred metres from his own goal to take a free (Joe included). A simple rule change like all frees outside the 70 having to be kept in play would make for a better game in my opinion.
As regards the ball,it may not be much lighter than before, but its definitely more moisture resistant and crucially more 'rubbery' for want of a better word which means it propels faster upon impact with the hurl. I remember in the 80s scoring a 70 was considered an achievement for an adult player, nowadays youd be dissappointed if a fourteen year old missed one"
Its a problem faced by golf as well as technology moves on and society in general gets bigger and stronger. Courses are becoming obsolete because of the length people can drive the ball. We can't make pitches any bigger, so maybe the ball needs to be made a little heavier particularly at elite level.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 08/04/2020 10:28:52    2275527

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It's amazing how people are always looking to pick something out that they can make a negative of. We have probably seen some of the most entertaining hurling finals ever over the last decade or so. There's always going to be some aspect of a game to over analyse and pick holes in but there's no need to go making free takers effectively obsolete or reducing numbers on teams. Appreciate what's there.
Same in football, arseing around with changing this and that and some of the best games we have seen in the past 20 years. When were there ever not poor games ?

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 08/04/2020 10:47:09    2275529

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Replying To catch22:  "It's amazing how people are always looking to pick something out that they can make a negative of. We have probably seen some of the most entertaining hurling finals ever over the last decade or so. There's always going to be some aspect of a game to over analyse and pick holes in but there's no need to go making free takers effectively obsolete or reducing numbers on teams. Appreciate what's there.
Same in football, arseing around with changing this and that and some of the best games we have seen in the past 20 years. When were there ever not poor games ?"
The easier the free the better as it should encourage players to stop fouling

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 08/04/2020 12:16:14    2275532

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Replying To catch22:  "It's amazing how people are always looking to pick something out that they can make a negative of. We have probably seen some of the most entertaining hurling finals ever over the last decade or so. There's always going to be some aspect of a game to over analyse and pick holes in but there's no need to go making free takers effectively obsolete or reducing numbers on teams. Appreciate what's there.
Same in football, arseing around with changing this and that and some of the best games we have seen in the past 20 years. When were there ever not poor games ?"
I get what you're saying and in general the standard of hurling is excellent and we've been privileged to see some superb games in the past decade or so.

However, there is no harm in looking at small ways to improve the game if possible.

I think if there was a way to reduce the distance players can strike the ball the game would be even better than it currently is.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 08/04/2020 19:23:36    2275555

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Replying To MesAmis:  "I get what you're saying and in general the standard of hurling is excellent and we've been privileged to see some superb games in the past decade or so.

However, there is no harm in looking at small ways to improve the game if possible.

I think if there was a way to reduce the distance players can strike the ball the game would be even better than it currently is."
Some folk have been slating Limerick for passing it short too much so it seems your damned for goin long and damned for goin short

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 08/04/2020 20:05:17    2275558

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Few posters here sound like Babs in disguise. You'd swear the quality of games was declining at an awful rate!"
i was wondering if i was alone in thinking that on what i was reading!
the best games of hurling,for 70 minutes,have all happened in the last 10-15 years.
plenty of supposed "epics" from the 80s and 90s etc are now being shown up thanks to eir sport (and unemployment) to be 5 minutes of excitement towards the end after 65 minutes of bad hurling.
the game has never been better.
there absolutely is a difference between a wet sliotar and a dry sliotar.

but what about it.a bit like what about short passing,a bit like teams playing an extra man in defence and him then getting forward.what about teams thinking about how they play.for me,there is about 50 times the skill in 2-3 passes between team mates 20-30m away and perfecting it than there ever was in ground hurling.
babs and his type think there should be no tactics and no thought going in to the game other than leather it as far as you can.that game is dead and gone.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 08/04/2020 20:54:18    2275564

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Replying To Breezy:  "Some folk have been slating Limerick for passing it short too much so it seems your damned for goin long and damned for goin short"
It's nothing to do with Limerick.

Short passing, long passing it's all good.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 08/04/2020 21:01:34    2275567

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Replying To perfect10:  "i was wondering if i was alone in thinking that on what i was reading!
the best games of hurling,for 70 minutes,have all happened in the last 10-15 years.
plenty of supposed "epics" from the 80s and 90s etc are now being shown up thanks to eir sport (and unemployment) to be 5 minutes of excitement towards the end after 65 minutes of bad hurling.
the game has never been better.
there absolutely is a difference between a wet sliotar and a dry sliotar.

but what about it.a bit like what about short passing,a bit like teams playing an extra man in defence and him then getting forward.what about teams thinking about how they play.for me,there is about 50 times the skill in 2-3 passes between team mates 20-30m away and perfecting it than there ever was in ground hurling.
babs and his type think there should be no tactics and no thought going in to the game other than leather it as far as you can.that game is dead and gone."
spot on

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 08/04/2020 21:26:14    2275569

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Replying To perfect10:  "i was wondering if i was alone in thinking that on what i was reading!
the best games of hurling,for 70 minutes,have all happened in the last 10-15 years.
plenty of supposed "epics" from the 80s and 90s etc are now being shown up thanks to eir sport (and unemployment) to be 5 minutes of excitement towards the end after 65 minutes of bad hurling.
the game has never been better.
there absolutely is a difference between a wet sliotar and a dry sliotar.

but what about it.a bit like what about short passing,a bit like teams playing an extra man in defence and him then getting forward.what about teams thinking about how they play.for me,there is about 50 times the skill in 2-3 passes between team mates 20-30m away and perfecting it than there ever was in ground hurling.
babs and his type think there should be no tactics and no thought going in to the game other than leather it as far as you can.that game is dead and gone."
Im not going to debate whats better, now or then when theres only one obvious answer. I agree that 2 to 3 stick passes are good to watch. But now we are seeing 2 to 3 and even 4 or 5 hand passes on the trot. The ease of these passes (much simpler than a ground stroke) allows the ball to be quickly moved to a man in space and then most likely a score...Repeat. Nothing magic about that and call me babs if you like but thats not the future of the game I hope. There needs to be an element of engagement in the game and ground hurling for all its faults had that, not just score after score.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 08/04/2020 22:09:57    2275572

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Im not going to debate whats better, now or then when theres only one obvious answer. I agree that 2 to 3 stick passes are good to watch. But now we are seeing 2 to 3 and even 4 or 5 hand passes on the trot. The ease of these passes (much simpler than a ground stroke) allows the ball to be quickly moved to a man in space and then most likely a score...Repeat. Nothing magic about that and call me babs if you like but thats not the future of the game I hope. There needs to be an element of engagement in the game and ground hurling for all its faults had that, not just score after score."
dont like scores,coach backs better.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 09/04/2020 18:43:28    2275637

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Im not going to debate whats better, now or then when theres only one obvious answer. I agree that 2 to 3 stick passes are good to watch. But now we are seeing 2 to 3 and even 4 or 5 hand passes on the trot. The ease of these passes (much simpler than a ground stroke) allows the ball to be quickly moved to a man in space and then most likely a score...Repeat. Nothing magic about that and call me babs if you like but thats not the future of the game I hope. There needs to be an element of engagement in the game and ground hurling for all its faults had that, not just score after score."
That's how Limerick play and boy it looks pretty magic to me.

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 09/04/2020 19:32:54    2275642

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Replying To Breezy:  "That's how Limerick play and boy it looks pretty magic to me."
I don't think anyone is having a go at Limerick but I'd definitely agree with Zulu that three passes with the hurley are better to look at than three hand passes - plus there is a lot more skill involved. Hand-passing from one end of the field to the other may be exciting to watch but it can hardly be called hurling. And, for what it's worth, I believe Limerick have as many skillful players as any other team and at their best they are brilliant to watch.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 544 - 09/04/2020 21:08:54    2275656

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Replying To Breezy:  "That's how Limerick play and boy it looks pretty magic to me."
i agree with you.
a few handpasses followed by a magical pass to a man in a better position,head up,pick out an inside forward,turn his man,point/goal,magic.
far more magic than ground hurling to me.watched the 1983 all ireland,ground hurling ended up coughing up possession at least 50% of the time.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 12/04/2020 08:59:57    2275800

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Replying To perfect10:  "i agree with you.
a few handpasses followed by a magical pass to a man in a better position,head up,pick out an inside forward,turn his man,point/goal,magic.
far more magic than ground hurling to me.watched the 1983 all ireland,ground hurling ended up coughing up possession at least 50% of the time."
Limerick are well capable of mixing their play. What worries me though are teams trying to emulate them and the multiple hand passes becomes rampant in weaker teams. All you need to do is look at gaelic football to see what happens when handpassing becomes the norm.

Anyway back to the topic
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/technology-set-to-make-hurling-a-whole-new-ball-game-in-2021-as-gaa-ponders-uniform-sliotar-plan-39118161.html

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 12/04/2020 12:06:15    2275804

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Limerick are well capable of mixing their play. What worries me though are teams trying to emulate them and the multiple hand passes becomes rampant in weaker teams. All you need to do is look at gaelic football to see what happens when handpassing becomes the norm.

Anyway back to the topic
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/technology-set-to-make-hurling-a-whole-new-ball-game-in-2021-as-gaa-ponders-uniform-sliotar-plan-39118161.html"
Ive said before on here that its a joke that we dont have an official sciotar for the AI championship and other high profile competitions

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 12/04/2020 18:35:42    2275830

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Replying To Breezy:  "Ive said before on here that its a joke that we dont have an official sciotar for the AI championship and other high profile competitions"
Couldn't agree with you more, there needs to be one standard sliotar used in all matches. The same as an oneills ball for foot ball.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1911 - 13/04/2020 13:25:07    2275887

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