National Forum

Should Provincial Football Qualifier Groups Be Considered?

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Should Provincial Football Qualifier Groups be considered?

Provincial Qualifier Groups;
Munster: 4 team round robin. Top 2 join 2 seeded teams in provincial semi-finals.

Connaught: 4 team round robin. Top 2 join 2 seeded teams in provincial semi-finals.

Ulster: 4 team round robin. Top 2 join 4 seeded teams in the quarter-finals. Ulster Champions given bye to semi-finals.

Leinster: 2 groups of 4 teams in a round robin. Top 2 from each group joining 2 seeded teams in the quarter-finals. Leinster Champions given bye to semi-finals.

New York to take on 1 of the following:
1 Munster seeded team in a preliminary semi-final. Or;
1 Connaught seeded team in a preliminary semi-final. Or;
1 Ulster seeded team in a preliminary quarter-final. Or;
1 Leinster seeded team in a preliminary quarter-final.

Provincial winners can be pardoned from a New York trip. That leaves New York with 8 potential opponents. This could be determined by a draw. Stipulation of no team drawing New York twice in an 8 year period.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 23/10/2019 15:45:55    2245269

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Should Provincial Football Qualifier Groups be considered?

Provincial Qualifier Groups;
Munster: 4 team round robin. Top 2 join 2 seeded teams in provincial semi-finals.

Connaught: 4 team round robin. Top 2 join 2 seeded teams in provincial semi-finals.

Ulster: 4 team round robin. Top 2 join 4 seeded teams in the quarter-finals. Ulster Champions given bye to semi-finals.

Leinster: 2 groups of 4 teams in a round robin. Top 2 from each group joining 2 seeded teams in the quarter-finals. Leinster Champions given bye to semi-finals.

New York to take on 1 of the following:
1 Munster seeded team in a preliminary semi-final. Or;
1 Connaught seeded team in a preliminary semi-final. Or;
1 Ulster seeded team in a preliminary quarter-final. Or;
1 Leinster seeded team in a preliminary quarter-final.

Provincial winners can be pardoned from a New York trip. That leaves New York with 8 potential opponents. This could be determined by a draw. Stipulation of no team drawing New York twice in an 8 year period."
Legend every proposal you have keeps provincial competitions in same position as they are now when that has to change for real improvements to be made and for more counties to truly benefit

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 753 - 23/10/2019 17:30:07    2245298

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Replying To KillingFields:  "
Replying To legendzxix:  "Should Provincial Football Qualifier Groups be considered?

Provincial Qualifier Groups;
Munster: 4 team round robin. Top 2 join 2 seeded teams in provincial semi-finals.

Connaught: 4 team round robin. Top 2 join 2 seeded teams in provincial semi-finals.

Ulster: 4 team round robin. Top 2 join 4 seeded teams in the quarter-finals. Ulster Champions given bye to semi-finals.

Leinster: 2 groups of 4 teams in a round robin. Top 2 from each group joining 2 seeded teams in the quarter-finals. Leinster Champions given bye to semi-finals.

New York to take on 1 of the following:
1 Munster seeded team in a preliminary semi-final. Or;
1 Connaught seeded team in a preliminary semi-final. Or;
1 Ulster seeded team in a preliminary quarter-final. Or;
1 Leinster seeded team in a preliminary quarter-final.

Provincial winners can be pardoned from a New York trip. That leaves New York with 8 potential opponents. This could be determined by a draw. Stipulation of no team drawing New York twice in an 8 year period."
Legend every proposal you have keeps provincial competitions in same position as they are now when that has to change for real improvements to be made and for more counties to truly benefit"
The provincial championships are being protected
That's the reality and I'm humbly suggesting solutions within the confines of that reality.

The 10 teams not making it out of the suggested provincial qualifier groups can enter the Tier 2 Championship. Tier 2 winner guaranteed an All-Ireland qualifier spot in the following year.

The 22 teams in the provincial championship knockout stage and the Tier 2 winner can enter the All-Ireland qualifiers.

The league can be used in a development manner. The Championship can be the championship with performance on the field of play in the Championship being rewarded.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 23/10/2019 19:21:51    2245319

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In my opinion the best format would be an open draw champions league style competition.

Run off the provincial championships over a month and a half (Leinster the biggest province obviously).

Then once all is decided do an open draw for the all Ireland championship. 32 teams including London into groups of 4. With top 2 in each group qualifying. From here knockout championship football. A round of 16 then quarter finals etc

Don't have seed rankings, imagine a group with Carlow, Wicklow, wexford and Leitrim to get through to knockout football would be a serious encouragement. If Dublin Kerry Mayo and Galway we're in one group so be it. or evem if Dublin we're drawn into a group with the minnows, imagine the craic if Dublin we're travelling to Fermanagh for a game or up to Belfast to play antrim

Allow each team one home game with the extra game being in a neutral provincial grounds. Give all the town's a huge boost.
Only an idea

rightsaidfred (Meath) - Posts: 10 - 24/10/2019 00:33:30    2245362

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Replying To rightsaidfred:  "In my opinion the best format would be an open draw champions league style competition.

Run off the provincial championships over a month and a half (Leinster the biggest province obviously).

Then once all is decided do an open draw for the all Ireland championship. 32 teams including London into groups of 4. With top 2 in each group qualifying. From here knockout championship football. A round of 16 then quarter finals etc

Don't have seed rankings, imagine a group with Carlow, Wicklow, wexford and Leitrim to get through to knockout football would be a serious encouragement. If Dublin Kerry Mayo and Galway we're in one group so be it. or evem if Dublin we're drawn into a group with the minnows, imagine the craic if Dublin we're travelling to Fermanagh for a game or up to Belfast to play antrim

Allow each team one home game with the extra game being in a neutral provincial grounds. Give all the town's a huge boost.
Only an idea"
I think we're going to have to imagine Dublin playing Antrim in Belfast for a good few years yet.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 293 - 24/10/2019 10:04:45    2245382

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "I think we're going to have to imagine Dublin playing Antrim in Belfast for a good few years yet."
Corrigan or nowhere!!

Londonish (UK) - Posts: 6 - 24/10/2019 10:38:36    2245390

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The Leinster Hurling Championship had a qualifier group for a few years. It gave lower ranked teams the guarantee of 3 games. It can easily be applied to the current football structures.

Formats that scrap the provincial championships, when that is not on the cards, are a waste of time.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 24/10/2019 11:21:23    2245409

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Firstly the round robin should be at the start of the competition not a super 8's in the middle. Your proposal has some merits but i would like all teams to be in the round robin.

Ideally you get rid of provincials:
-8 groups of 4
-Seedings based on final league placings taking promotion/relegation into account
-Top 2 teams go into last 16 knockout for Sam
-Bottom 2 go into last 16 Plate competition
-Group winners would get home advantage up until Semi Final (same for plate)
-Semi Final neutral venue

There would need to be some carrot dangled for the plate competition because like it or lump it a competition with no history is hard to sell.

The amount of games would not dramatically increase either leaving space for club (7 games to win Sam). The fact that it would be so structured would mean certainty for club fixtures as well.

If you want to keep the provincials you could base a round robin around it as well but it would be a little trickier. Ulster really is the only provincial that has any real lure in my view. I love the Galway v Mayo matches but outside that i can take it or leave it. Really though it is a no brainer to get rid of provincials. More positives than negatives.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1202 - 24/10/2019 11:51:08    2245422

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@ Mayonman - A provincial group that might meet requirements:

Munster: 1 group of 4.
Connaught: 1 group of 4.
Ulster: 2 groups of 4.
Leinster: 2 groups of 4.

Tier 2;
Munster/Connaught: 1 group of 4. Top 2 into semi-final. Winner promoted to their province and qualify for Tier 2 final. (Example: Leitrim, Waterford, Limerick and London.)
Ulster/Leinster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 into semi-final. Winner promoted to their province and qualify for Tier 2 final. (Example: Offaly, Antrim, Wicklow and Wexford.)

Qualifier Round 1:
6 3rd placed teams from the provincial group stage.

Qualifier Round 2:
2 Ulster semi-finalists, 2 Leinster semi-finalists, Tier 2 winner and 3 Round 1 winners.

Qualifier Round 3:
4 provincial runners-up and 4 Round 2 winners.

Super 8s onwards.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 24/10/2019 15:13:21    2245491

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Replying To legendzxix:  "@ Mayonman - A provincial group that might meet requirements:

Munster: 1 group of 4.
Connaught: 1 group of 4.
Ulster: 2 groups of 4.
Leinster: 2 groups of 4.

Tier 2;
Munster/Connaught: 1 group of 4. Top 2 into semi-final. Winner promoted to their province and qualify for Tier 2 final. (Example: Leitrim, Waterford, Limerick and London.)
Ulster/Leinster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 into semi-final. Winner promoted to their province and qualify for Tier 2 final. (Example: Offaly, Antrim, Wicklow and Wexford.)

Qualifier Round 1:
6 3rd placed teams from the provincial group stage.

Qualifier Round 2:
2 Ulster semi-finalists, 2 Leinster semi-finalists, Tier 2 winner and 3 Round 1 winners.

Qualifier Round 3:
4 provincial runners-up and 4 Round 2 winners.

Super 8s onwards."
Brilliant !

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1774 - 30/10/2019 12:41:06    2246606

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Replying To legendzxix:  "@ Mayonman - A provincial group that might meet requirements:

Munster: 1 group of 4.
Connaught: 1 group of 4.
Ulster: 2 groups of 4.
Leinster: 2 groups of 4.

Tier 2;
Munster/Connaught: 1 group of 4. Top 2 into semi-final. Winner promoted to their province and qualify for Tier 2 final. (Example: Leitrim, Waterford, Limerick and London.)
Ulster/Leinster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 into semi-final. Winner promoted to their province and qualify for Tier 2 final. (Example: Offaly, Antrim, Wicklow and Wexford.)

Qualifier Round 1:
6 3rd placed teams from the provincial group stage.

Qualifier Round 2:
2 Ulster semi-finalists, 2 Leinster semi-finalists, Tier 2 winner and 3 Round 1 winners.

Qualifier Round 3:
4 provincial runners-up and 4 Round 2 winners.

Super 8s onwards."
Very good. What i like is the fact that u give Tier 2 an opportunity to get into Championship proper hence ensuring they have some real interest in it.

This could all be played week on week to ensure minimal effect on club game. The cult of "the manager" might be upset at having games rather than loads of training!!

Anyway makes too much sense to be introduced!!

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1202 - 30/10/2019 13:37:57    2246616

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