National Forum

Kerry And Dublin Have An Unfair Advantage.

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Replying To Royal.Legend:  "The sad thing about this was before Croke park decided to buy dublin there all Ireland's the leinster championship was probably the most competitive provence of the four."
Hear hear

kick_it (Leitrim) - Posts: 15 - 13/10/2019 14:41:48    2243158

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Replying To kick_it:  "Hear hear"
There , there.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2164 - 13/10/2019 15:09:01    2243160

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Well let's be honest the only provincial Championship with any credibility and excitement left is Ulster. Connacht is well behind that then the circus acts and freak shows that are Munster and Leinster follow."
Hardly that exciting and unpredictable if 9 of the last 11 Ulster Championships have been won by just two counties. The Provincial Championships are in serious trouble with only one or two counties dominating in each.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4150 - 13/10/2019 15:50:16    2243162

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Replying To Joxer:  "Hardly that exciting and unpredictable if 9 of the last 11 Ulster Championships have been won by just two counties. The Provincial Championships are in serious trouble with only one or two counties dominating in each."
4 won in last 12 seasons if u want to reframe slightly.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3737 - 13/10/2019 16:20:47    2243164

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Replying To Royal.Legend:  "The sad thing about this was before Croke park decided to buy dublin there all Ireland's the leinster championship was probably the most competitive provence of the four."
Imagine how much money it would take to buy Meath an AI. I'd say the GDP figure of the USA would have nothing on it.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4150 - 13/10/2019 16:24:43    2243165

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Anyone ever hear of Godwin's law.

It says that if an internet discussion goes on long enough eventually someone will eventually accuse someone of being a Nazi or like Hitler.

I don't think it applies on HoganStand. Instead every thread turns into an endless loop of phrases along the lines of:

Dublin has loads of money given to it.

Kerry aren't exactly doing without.

Meath are sh1te.

Ulster destroyed football.

This was a thread about the imbalance of the Championship structure. It's descended into the above as practically every thread does now.

There's plenty of rubbish written by the Dubs lads on here but the threads always start to get hijacked by non Dubs. Always."
Ha this is spot on

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 484 - 13/10/2019 16:46:32    2243171

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Replying To Joxer:  "Imagine how much money it would take to buy Meath an AI. I'd say the GDP figure of the USA would have nothing on it."
Classic.... lol.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 2862 - 13/10/2019 21:05:58    2243238

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Well let's be honest the only provincial Championship with any credibility and excitement left is Ulster. Connacht is well behind that then the circus acts and freak shows that are Munster and Leinster follow."
A bit harsh on Connacht. They have 3 teams that have a realistic chance of winning a provincial title - like Ulster. They had a team that was knocked out of their provincial championship early (Mayo) beating a the Ulster champions just like Ulster had a team that was knocked out of their provincial championship early (Tyrone) beating a the Connacht champions. Doesn't sound like Connacht is "well behind".

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 527 - 14/10/2019 12:29:30    2243371

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Anyone ever hear of Godwin's law.

It says that if an internet discussion goes on long enough eventually someone will eventually accuse someone of being a Nazi or like Hitler.

I don't think it applies on HoganStand. Instead every thread turns into an endless loop of phrases along the lines of:

Dublin has loads of money given to it.

Kerry aren't exactly doing without.

Meath are sh1te.

Ulster destroyed football.

This was a thread about the imbalance of the Championship structure. It's descended into the above as practically every thread does now.

There's plenty of rubbish written by the Dubs lads on here but the threads always start to get hijacked by non Dubs. Always."
Part of the problem is the thread heading - it names two counties and states that they both have an unfair advantage. It would be better to concentrate on the provincial system and to suggest ways of replacing it with a more competitive and fair system.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 805 - 14/10/2019 13:28:38    2243393

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The provincial system is a big problem. 5(7), 6, 9 and 12 counties competing in each province. In Munster 90% of titles won by Cork or Kerry. In Connacht 96% of titles shared between Galway, Mayo and Roscommon. Leinster Dublin have won more the 2nd-5th highest winners combined ie Meath, Kildare, Offaly & Wexford. Ulster given that Cavan are not the powerhouse they had been up to 50yrs ago is the only competitive province with Monaghan, Tyrone, Armagh, Down, Donegal or Derry all capable of regularly coming out tops against one another.
Scrap the subsidiary competitions. Run the Provincial competitions as stand alone competitions and the All-Ireland as a seeded open draw champions league style.

AnFearBan1234 (Meath) - Posts: 86 - 14/10/2019 13:39:38    2243397

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Replying To Donegalman:  "4 won in last 12 seasons if u want to reframe slightly."
And taking those 12 years, 4 different winners but also all 9 Counties have appeared in a final in that time.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 3945 - 14/10/2019 14:13:00    2243406

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Replying To Offside_Rule:  "And taking those 12 years, 4 different winners but also all 9 Counties have appeared in a final in that time."
Yes, that too.
2010, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2016 all close games. 2013 and 2015 Monaghan massive underdogs beat Donegal. Every year there is an upset in any given round.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3737 - 14/10/2019 15:55:50    2243448

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Replying To baire:  "Part of the problem is the thread heading - it names two counties and states that they both have an unfair advantage. It would be better to concentrate on the provincial system and to suggest ways of replacing it with a more competitive and fair system."
That's a fair point.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2860 - 14/10/2019 17:20:42    2243480

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Replying To TheUsername:  "The GAA also pumped 2 mill in to the campus in Currens. While the Irish Sports Council put 7 mill into the sports campus into Tralee IT.

Puts into context figures of 18 mill, when you consider populations of 140k Vs 1.8mill or apply ratios.

Kerry are failing massively when you consider the investment made them, i see they also pulled the hurling minor team as well."
We have a very successful junior team which we enter into the junior championship every year can ye say the same?

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 10254 - 16/10/2019 07:50:13    2243860

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Replying To TheUsername:  "The GAA also pumped 2 mill in to the campus in Currens. While the Irish Sports Council put 7 mill into the sports campus into Tralee IT.

Puts into context figures of 18 mill, when you consider populations of 140k Vs 1.8mill or apply ratios.

Kerry are failing massively when you consider the investment made them, i see they also pulled the hurling minor team as well."
"I see they also pulled the hurling minor team as well."

What did they pull out of?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 299 - 16/10/2019 09:45:09    2243881

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Declan Bonner calls out the Greatest Team of All Time and Kerry. Saying that both the Leinster and Munster and the lack of competitiveness in both Provincial championship Championships are contributing and enabling successes to both Kerry and Dublin that Counties in Ulster and Cannacht dot enjoy.

"If you look at Munster and Leinster, and especially Kerry and Dublin, they don't need to plan or get ready for a championship match in the second or third week of May," Bonner told the Irish Daily Star.

"They can plan their preparation until July or August and structure their training accordingly. But in Ulster, many counties have to peak for May and it is very difficult to maintain that momentum right through the whole summer - that is unequal.

"That is one of the down sides and it gives teams like Kerry and Dublin an unfair advantage. In Ulster we have to be ready and competitive right from the start."

As a Dub i find it very hard to disagree with him, The Leinster Championship and Munster Championship are significant advantages to both Dublin and Kerry and in my opinion creates a distinct advantage to these teams in comparison to Mayo, Roscommon, Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Cavan, Mongahan etc.

The provincial championship structures are a complete unfair advantage to Dublin and Kerry in my opinion and that speaking objectively. Change in needed in my opinion!?"
The Provincial championships are a waste of time, they had their use, the best thing would be to ditch them altogether. You simply cannot build proper competitions with those obsolete structures.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4215 - 20/10/2019 22:43:02    2244671

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Ditch the provincials, ditch the winter/spring league
replace both with one competition - a spring/summer league-based championship
develop and promote the club championship.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 805 - 21/10/2019 08:59:11    2244702

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Replying To arock:  "The Provincial championships are a waste of time, they had their use, the best thing would be to ditch them altogether. You simply cannot build proper competitions with those obsolete structures."
Now congress have bottled it or over politicized it with a self serving agenda. It will be left up to the fixture review committee to bring about meaningful change, from what i have heard so far they are looking at trying to equalize the provinces with counties migrating to different provinces to make the them more competitive., rounding up more equal numbers so every one will have the same number of counties and game in the provinces.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3173 - 21/10/2019 09:32:11    2244707

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Now congress have bottled it or over politicized it with a self serving agenda. It will be left up to the fixture review committee to bring about meaningful change, from what i have heard so far they are looking at trying to equalize the provinces with counties migrating to different provinces to make the them more competitive., rounding up more equal numbers so every one will have the same number of counties and game in the provinces."
If they are hell bent on keeping the provincials alive then that is not a terrible plan but it is fraught with difficulties at the same time. There is a precedent with Galway in the hurling but that was one county. If you are trying to swap multiple counties around the place it could get very messy and you'll still have anomalies.

Ulster and Connaught will probably argue that they are doing just fine and may resist change. Who can they realistically drop in to Munster / Leinster to make them more competitive? Division one counties will not want to move provinces you would imagine.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1698 - 21/10/2019 10:50:29    2244722

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "If they are hell bent on keeping the provincials alive then that is not a terrible plan but it is fraught with difficulties at the same time. There is a precedent with Galway in the hurling but that was one county. If you are trying to swap multiple counties around the place it could get very messy and you'll still have anomalies.

Ulster and Connaught will probably argue that they are doing just fine and may resist change. Who can they realistically drop in to Munster / Leinster to make them more competitive? Division one counties will not want to move provinces you would imagine."
The snippets i have heard, have been Ulster Counties migrating to Connacht and Leinster into Munster. That makes no sense to me, amalgamate the two most competitive provincial championships and then amalgamate the two weakest. If it was Connacht into Munster and Ulster into Leinster it would make more sense.

I cant see it being a long term solution, quality and success are moving targets, once its done its done and it will be the same old thing with counties appexing and regressing.

Perhaps if they had a minimum requirement for so many Div 1 teams in a province it could work, but then you run the risk of teams not minding getting relegated to have a handier championship.

This, congress and the new rules all seem very reactionary to a specific moment in time to me and no long terms future proofing built into almost anything as the game is about to be diced up and football as we know it forever to be changed a big risk within that of it not being for the better.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3173 - 21/10/2019 11:40:56    2244735

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