National Forum

Kerry And Dublin Have An Unfair Advantage.

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He would probably the first to complain if they got rid of the Ulster championship for the greater good. There is an undertone of 'how great the ulster championship is' in this.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 563 - 11/10/2019 22:12:19    2242920

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Replying To Soma:  "With these Ulster teams having to peak so early you would expect them to give Dublin and Kerry awful hidings in the spring league games..."
That would be peaking too early and sure anyone who know anything knows you don't set up to peak between January and March. That's just silly.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 3945 - 11/10/2019 23:07:46    2242930

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Replying To ZUL10:  "He would probably the first to complain if they got rid of the Ulster championship for the greater good. There is an undertone of 'how great the ulster championship is' in this."
Well let's be honest the only provincial Championship with any credibility and excitement left is Ulster. Connacht is well behind that then the circus acts and freak shows that are Munster and Leinster follow.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9214 - 12/10/2019 01:05:25    2242940

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Replying To Breezy:  "Sorry but you have lost me there. I'm not sure what your post means, are you agreeing or disagreeing with my post ?"
All or nothing seasons are harmful. You are describing this perfectly. I disagree with the belief that Sam = successful season and nothing else is.

I dont know if you are writing descriptively or expressing your value here, therefore I haven't disagreed with you yet.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3737 - 12/10/2019 02:04:48    2242943

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Replying To culmore:  "He wasn't complaining when Donegal and Tyrone destroyed Gaelic Football with McGuinness and Harte"
Can't say for sure as he wouldn't have featured on any panels or media outlets during that time. Very few coaches with aspirations of coaching their county would ever publicly criticize the team before seeking the nomination. Judging him by his tactics over the past two seasons he seems to favour an attacking approach. His team has scored an average of 2.18 and 1.15 in the last two Ulster championships.

Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 354 - 12/10/2019 02:34:19    2242944

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The championship pre super 8s was a knockout competition that was seeded based on Provincial results only.

If it was seeded on Provincial and League results it'd make for a more even competition.

4 Seed A+ Provincial champions
4 Seed A 4 best non Provincial champions

8 Seed B any Provincial runners up not A seeds, however many from the league to make it up to 8 teams.

16 Seed C 16 lowest ranked league teams not making their Provincial finals

All Ireland round 1 16 C drawn
Round 2: B seeds drawn v Winners of round 1
Round 3: A and A+ seeds drawn v winners of round 2

Quarterfinals: A+ seeds kept apart

It's a slimlined All Ireland.

The Provincials stay and are part of the All Ireland series but are less important than they are now.

The league becomes more meaningful."
Good suggestion and take out the joke of having a mini league in the middle of the of the cgampionshipy

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1744 - 12/10/2019 08:50:49    2242949

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Replying To mayotyroneman:  "Good suggestion and take out the joke of having a mini league in the middle of the of the cgampionshipy"
The super 8s are just a bit weird.

What I'd really want is for Dublin v Tyrone in the league to mean more.

Without going too much into the details the quarter final pairings would be predetermined so that the best Provincial champion plays the 4th best Non Provincial champion if they advance.

Success in the league and Provincial championships provide the easier route to Sam.

I think this system helps weaker counties much more than the suggested second tiers.

The league becomes more prominent for them. Getting promoted can mean skipping a championship round.

Even Antrim, Leitrim or Carlow would be 2 wins away from the last 16.

The last 16 is where all the big guns will be waiting.

The GAA could actually have an exciting draw at that stage.

The A seeds on 1 side, the round 2 winners on the other and they could get whoever out of that hat.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2860 - 12/10/2019 10:18:25    2242954

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Donegal are an interesting case, is there are an argument to suggest they may have gotten on better in the last two championships and specifically against Kerry and Dublin in the quarters if they hadn't had to play an intense Ulster Championship and lost players like EBG and McBrearty along the way.

I suppose there may be an argument for Mayo and Galway in recent years who have come a cropper in Connacht may be trying to leave a bit in the tank to peak later with their eye on tilting for the big prize. Not taking anything away from Roscommon.

Simply dilemmas, Dublin and Kerry dont have, with players like Fenton, Clifford, O Shea, Mannion, Kilkenny, Moran, King Con being afforded the luxury of being subbed, rested and protected in provincials around the 50th -60th min mark.

Certainly when you look at injuries Donegal, Mayo and Galway have had a tough time in the last two season since the S8's were introduced.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3173 - 12/10/2019 10:21:21    2242955

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Replying To witnof:  "Issue you have is the Provincial Championships are the biggest money earner for the Provinces and the monies go back into the counties. So we need to change but we also need to change the finances or do away with the Provincial Councils and this is were it gets messy.

Championship and financing the Assoication go cap in hand so the overall has to be looked at must more deeply than just get rid of the provincials"
Aren't ye lucky ye don't have to worry about money, 2-3 million straight into yer account every year without lifting a finger.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 10254 - 12/10/2019 11:28:20    2242966

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Aren't ye lucky ye don't have to worry about money, 2-3 million straight into yer account every year without lifting a finger."
That was completely off topic.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2860 - 12/10/2019 13:30:55    2242984

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Donegal are an interesting case, is there are an argument to suggest they may have gotten on better in the last two championships and specifically against Kerry and Dublin in the quarters if they hadn't had to play an intense Ulster Championship and lost players like EBG and McBrearty along the way.

I suppose there may be an argument for Mayo and Galway in recent years who have come a cropper in Connacht may be trying to leave a bit in the tank to peak later with their eye on tilting for the big prize. Not taking anything away from Roscommon.

Simply dilemmas, Dublin and Kerry dont have, with players like Fenton, Clifford, O Shea, Mannion, Kilkenny, Moran, King Con being afforded the luxury of being subbed, rested and protected in provincials around the 50th -60th min mark.

Certainly when you look at injuries Donegal, Mayo and Galway have had a tough time in the last two season since the S8's were introduced."
That has been the case although eb gallagher's injury was a freak accident apparently.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3737 - 12/10/2019 14:32:14    2242993

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Well let's be honest the only provincial Championship with any credibility and excitement left is Ulster. Connacht is well behind that then the circus acts and freak shows that are Munster and Leinster follow."
And Dublin would destroy any ulster team. Ulster have no great teams. Unlike Leinster and Munster with dubs and Kerry. Fact are dubs would have walked Ulster this year. Until this is accepted by Ulster nothing will change. There is a question of maybe declaring Dublin as a province in itself and allowing them to rotate through different provinces. Would you be in favor of such a move ?

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16303 - 12/10/2019 14:44:30    2242994

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The sad thing about this was before Croke park decided to buy dublin there all Ireland's the leinster championship was probably the most competitive provence of the four.

Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 401 - 12/10/2019 18:24:21    2243015

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Aren't ye lucky ye don't have to worry about money, 2-3 million straight into yer account every year without lifting a finger."
What's that, €2 per head of population? Are ye telling me that Kerry CB doesn't get more than €280K a year without lifting a finger? They got €1.1m alone from the US in 2015. They got €1m from the billion euro Kerry Group company for a palatial centre of excellence. They have received millions through their other sponsors in ILCU, Acorn Life, hotel chains... A Kerry minister has gifted €3m to Kerry sports clubs in the last 18 months. It must be great to have a population of 140K and have this non-stop conveyor belt of cash thrown at you.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4150 - 13/10/2019 10:51:56    2243107

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Replying To Joxer:  "What's that, €2 per head of population? Are ye telling me that Kerry CB doesn't get more than €280K a year without lifting a finger? They got €1.1m alone from the US in 2015. They got €1m from the billion euro Kerry Group company for a palatial centre of excellence. They have received millions through their other sponsors in ILCU, Acorn Life, hotel chains... A Kerry minister has gifted €3m to Kerry sports clubs in the last 18 months. It must be great to have a population of 140K and have this non-stop conveyor belt of cash thrown at you."
The GAA also pumped 2 mill in to the campus in Currens. While the Irish Sports Council put 7 mill into the sports campus into Tralee IT.

Puts into context figures of 18 mill, when you consider populations of 140k Vs 1.8mill or apply ratios.

Kerry are failing massively when you consider the investment made them, i see they also pulled the hurling minor team as well.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3173 - 13/10/2019 12:36:30    2243123

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Replying To Joxer:  "What's that, €2 per head of population? Are ye telling me that Kerry CB doesn't get more than €280K a year without lifting a finger? They got €1.1m alone from the US in 2015. They got €1m from the billion euro Kerry Group company for a palatial centre of excellence. They have received millions through their other sponsors in ILCU, Acorn Life, hotel chains... A Kerry minister has gifted €3m to Kerry sports clubs in the last 18 months. It must be great to have a population of 140K and have this non-stop conveyor belt of cash thrown at you."
The GAA also pumped 2 mill in to the campus in Currens. While the Irish Sports Council put 7 mill into the sports campus into Tralee IT.

Puts into context figures of 18 mill, when you consider populations of 140k Vs 1.8mill or apply ratios.

Kerry are failing massively when you consider the investment made them, i see they also pulled the hurling minor team as well.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3173 - 13/10/2019 12:38:54    2243126

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Replying To Royal.Legend:  "The sad thing about this was before Croke park decided to buy dublin there all Ireland's the leinster championship was probably the most competitive provence of the four."
Oh stop your nonsense , your lot have been mismanaged for 20 odd years , not Dublins fault yea cant compete with Donegal Mayo Monaghan tyrone etc , now that really is the sad thing .

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 1944 - 13/10/2019 12:49:00    2243130

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Replying To TheUsername:  "The GAA also pumped 2 mill in to the campus in Currens. While the Irish Sports Council put 7 mill into the sports campus into Tralee IT.

Puts into context figures of 18 mill, when you consider populations of 140k Vs 1.8mill or apply ratios.

Kerry are failing massively when you consider the investment made them, i see they also pulled the hurling minor team as well."
Massive funding and into an area with half the population of Fingal. Really makes you wonder what their doing with the millions of euro being pumped in. I know the centre of excellence cost about €7m. Impressive and luxurious facilities.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4150 - 13/10/2019 13:46:09    2243147

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Replying To Joxer:  "Massive funding and into an area with half the population of Fingal. Really makes you wonder what their doing with the millions of euro being pumped in. I know the centre of excellence cost about €7m. Impressive and luxurious facilities."
I know they like to compare themselves to Dublin, but its really the likes of Mayo, Donegal that it is extremely unfair on, Counties with a similar population and geographical make up yet receive significantly less in structural and GDF funding.

The issue of pulling their minor hurling team i think is significant, they receive one of the highest GDF to population ratios and then not bothering to enter underage teams in Competitions. Its not right.

But you know, 18 mill!! ;)

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3173 - 13/10/2019 14:07:17    2243151

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Anyone ever hear of Godwin's law.

It says that if an internet discussion goes on long enough eventually someone will eventually accuse someone of being a Nazi or like Hitler.

I don't think it applies on HoganStand. Instead every thread turns into an endless loop of phrases along the lines of:

Dublin has loads of money given to it.

Kerry aren't exactly doing without.

Meath are sh1te.

Ulster destroyed football.

This was a thread about the imbalance of the Championship structure. It's descended into the above as practically every thread does now.

There's plenty of rubbish written by the Dubs lads on here but the threads always start to get hijacked by non Dubs. Always.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2860 - 13/10/2019 14:18:37    2243153

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