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Kerry And Dublin Have An Unfair Advantage.

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Declan Bonner calls out the Greatest Team of All Time and Kerry. Saying that both the Leinster and Munster and the lack of competitiveness in both Provincial championship Championships are contributing and enabling successes to both Kerry and Dublin that Counties in Ulster and Cannacht dot enjoy.

"If you look at Munster and Leinster, and especially Kerry and Dublin, they don't need to plan or get ready for a championship match in the second or third week of May," Bonner told the Irish Daily Star.

"They can plan their preparation until July or August and structure their training accordingly. But in Ulster, many counties have to peak for May and it is very difficult to maintain that momentum right through the whole summer - that is unequal.

"That is one of the down sides and it gives teams like Kerry and Dublin an unfair advantage. In Ulster we have to be ready and competitive right from the start."

As a Dub i find it very hard to disagree with him, The Leinster Championship and Munster Championship are significant advantages to both Dublin and Kerry and in my opinion creates a distinct advantage to these teams in comparison to Mayo, Roscommon, Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Cavan, Mongahan etc.

The provincial championship structures are a complete unfair advantage to Dublin and Kerry in my opinion and that speaking objectively. Change in needed in my opinion!?

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3173 - 11/10/2019 11:07:44    2242762

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I posted a bit tongue in cheek the other day about replicating something similar to the Hurling setup. But if something like that was to be taken on board would mean taking Dublin and Cork/Kerry out of their own provinces and moving in to say Connacht which would then give Connacht another 3 teams. If Connacht (8 teams) and Ulster (9 teams) are then played as mini leagues with the top 3 in each going through to the 1/4 finals of the AI and the other 2 berths being made up from the Offside Perpetual Trophy winners and finalists (which is played out by the remaining teams from Munster and Leinster).

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 3945 - 11/10/2019 11:53:49    2242780

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Declan Bonner calls out the Greatest Team of All Time and Kerry. Saying that both the Leinster and Munster and the lack of competitiveness in both Provincial championship Championships are contributing and enabling successes to both Kerry and Dublin that Counties in Ulster and Cannacht dot enjoy.

"If you look at Munster and Leinster, and especially Kerry and Dublin, they don't need to plan or get ready for a championship match in the second or third week of May," Bonner told the Irish Daily Star.

"They can plan their preparation until July or August and structure their training accordingly. But in Ulster, many counties have to peak for May and it is very difficult to maintain that momentum right through the whole summer - that is unequal.

"That is one of the down sides and it gives teams like Kerry and Dublin an unfair advantage. In Ulster we have to be ready and competitive right from the start."

As a Dub i find it very hard to disagree with him, The Leinster Championship and Munster Championship are significant advantages to both Dublin and Kerry and in my opinion creates a distinct advantage to these teams in comparison to Mayo, Roscommon, Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Cavan, Mongahan etc.

The provincial championship structures are a complete unfair advantage to Dublin and Kerry in my opinion and that speaking objectively. Change in needed in my opinion!?"
Issue you have is the Provincial Championships are the biggest money earner for the Provinces and the monies go back into the counties. So we need to change but we also need to change the finances or do away with the Provincial Councils and this is were it gets messy.

Championship and financing the Assoication go cap in hand so the overall has to be looked at must more deeply than just get rid of the provincials

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1516 - 11/10/2019 12:04:15    2242784

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The provincial council's hold too much sway to completely abolish them and they still run the provincial club and other competitions.

It's not Kerry or Dublins fault that they have this advantage but Donegal and Tyrone will have to prioritise their goals based on the current draw. If either are serious about a tilt at the All Ireland then there is no way they can be at full intensity for this game. The losers however will have a long journey to the super 8's. It's the worst possible draw for both teams.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1562 - 11/10/2019 12:20:50    2242791

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "The provincial council's hold too much sway to completely abolish them and they still run the provincial club and other competitions.

It's not Kerry or Dublins fault that they have this advantage but Donegal and Tyrone will have to prioritise their goals based on the current draw. If either are serious about a tilt at the All Ireland then there is no way they can be at full intensity for this game. The losers however will have a long journey to the super 8's. It's the worst possible draw for both teams."
Would a seeded system work better in Ulster to avoid Donegal drawing Tyrone so early.

GreenAndGold74 (Kerry) - Posts: 119 - 11/10/2019 12:36:17    2242797

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The championship pre super 8s was a knockout competition that was seeded based on Provincial results only.

If it was seeded on Provincial and League results it'd make for a more even competition.

4 Seed A+ Provincial champions
4 Seed A 4 best non Provincial champions

8 Seed B any Provincial runners up not A seeds, however many from the league to make it up to 8 teams.

16 Seed C 16 lowest ranked league teams not making their Provincial finals

All Ireland round 1 16 C drawn
Round 2: B seeds drawn v Winners of round 1
Round 3: A and A+ seeds drawn v winners of round 2

Quarterfinals: A+ seeds kept apart

It's a slimlined All Ireland.

The Provincials stay and are part of the All Ireland series but are less important than they are now.

The league becomes more meaningful.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2860 - 11/10/2019 13:06:01    2242802

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Replying To GreenAndGold74:  "Would a seeded system work better in Ulster to avoid Donegal drawing Tyrone so early."
Possibly, but you're looking at semis v tyrone, or 1st round games v Monaghan, Armagh, cavan, down. U could get a prelim draw.

Is the current system fair? No, but Munster nor Leinster councils are forcing us to use it.

We lost mcbrearty last year in the Ulster final due to ligament. It was his 4th game in a row in Ulster and there were no draws that year. Ask any trainer or physio if he would prefer less games for paddy mc and the answer would be simple.

If you want to last a full season going a road like that you need a huge squad

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3737 - 11/10/2019 13:13:34    2242804

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Declan Bonner calls out the Greatest Team of All Time and Kerry. Saying that both the Leinster and Munster and the lack of competitiveness in both Provincial championship Championships are contributing and enabling successes to both Kerry and Dublin that Counties in Ulster and Cannacht dot enjoy.

"If you look at Munster and Leinster, and especially Kerry and Dublin, they don't need to plan or get ready for a championship match in the second or third week of May," Bonner told the Irish Daily Star.

"They can plan their preparation until July or August and structure their training accordingly. But in Ulster, many counties have to peak for May and it is very difficult to maintain that momentum right through the whole summer - that is unequal.

"That is one of the down sides and it gives teams like Kerry and Dublin an unfair advantage. In Ulster we have to be ready and competitive right from the start."

As a Dub i find it very hard to disagree with him, The Leinster Championship and Munster Championship are significant advantages to both Dublin and Kerry and in my opinion creates a distinct advantage to these teams in comparison to Mayo, Roscommon, Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Cavan, Mongahan etc.

The provincial championship structures are a complete unfair advantage to Dublin and Kerry in my opinion and that speaking objectively. Change in needed in my opinion!?"
"Declan Bonner calls out the Greatest Team of All Time and Kerry."

The 'and' is a typo

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 635 - 11/10/2019 16:12:20    2242841

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "The provincial council's hold too much sway to completely abolish them and they still run the provincial club and other competitions.

It's not Kerry or Dublins fault that they have this advantage but Donegal and Tyrone will have to prioritise their goals based on the current draw. If either are serious about a tilt at the All Ireland then there is no way they can be at full intensity for this game. The losers however will have a long journey to the super 8's. It's the worst possible draw for both teams."
Yes, agree fully. Overall effect is that both teams - and Ulster football - lose. I'm starting to get over my long-standing enthusiasm for the Ulster Championship ...

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 635 - 11/10/2019 16:15:01    2242842

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Replying To GreenAndGold74:  "Would a seeded system work better in Ulster to avoid Donegal drawing Tyrone so early."
Possibly but unlike Munster where Cork and Kerry bar a few years are well ahead of the rest, in Ulster there's nearly always three teams with Armagh being that team through the 00's and then Monaghan with now Cavan and Armagh again coming strong so it's not as simple.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1562 - 11/10/2019 16:15:38    2242843

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When teams win the AI after and easy provincial it's an advantage but when they lose all the time after easy provincials it's because they were not tested and it's a disadvantage.

Always the same narratives in every sport just like PSG and Ligue1/Champions League or the other way round the Irish rugby clubs and the league/Champions cup

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 484 - 11/10/2019 17:30:35    2242860

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A load of jibberish,

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2495 - 11/10/2019 17:41:13    2242865

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The simple solution is to get rid of the provincial championships or move them to the spring and make them a competition in their own right with no bearing on the championship.

Then play your league and seeded knockout championship side by side later in the year.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1698 - 11/10/2019 17:50:35    2242866

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "The simple solution is to get rid of the provincial championships or move them to the spring and make them a competition in their own right with no bearing on the championship.

Then play your league and seeded knockout championship side by side later in the year."
Moving them to spring shouldn't happen but keep them in summer and have reward for them as stand alone competition big enough for counties to want to win them

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 425 - 11/10/2019 18:47:06    2242869

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Replying To Breezy:  "When teams win the AI after and easy provincial it's an advantage but when they lose all the time after easy provincials it's because they were not tested and it's a disadvantage.

Always the same narratives in every sport just like PSG and Ligue1/Champions League or the other way round the Irish rugby clubs and the league/Champions cup"
False dilemma here. Winning all Ireland or having your best possible season. I think we should be more forgiving in our aspirations

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3737 - 11/10/2019 19:49:19    2242879

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He wasn't complaining when Donegal and Tyrone destroyed Gaelic Football with McGuinness and Harte

culmore (None) - Posts: 1384 - 11/10/2019 20:01:23    2242883

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I like Declan but I think this is a bit of a non-issue. We were told we had a "soft" Ulster in 2018 beating Cavan (8 points), Derry (6 points), Down (13 points) and Fermanagh (12 points) and that the standard was terrible and sure it did us no good come the Super 8s.

The volume of games and the lopsided nature of that I think is a fair enough point about the All-Ireland, one team playing 4 games to get to the Super 8s versus a team playing 2, that doesn't make sense. But would a tough Munster semi-final against a resurgent Cork next year for Kerry versus our route through Ulster in 2018, which is easier really? All a bit relative and depending on the strength of teams as well. I don't think the old cliché about "no easy games in Ulster" just isn't true any more, there are a few sticky ones but it's just the luck of the draw that we've gotten the hardest draw to start the 2020 Championship (only saving grace being it's in Ballybofey, although Tyrone ended our unbeaten run there so I'm sure they've no fear of the place).

But we can chat about this til the cows come home, the provincials are going nowhere. As a hypothetical I do think Dublin would have been fine in Ulster or Connacht because of the strength of their panel the past 10 years, but you'd certainly see more injuries than they've had cruising through Leinster.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 959 - 11/10/2019 20:30:51    2242893

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Replying To Donegalman:  "False dilemma here. Winning all Ireland or having your best possible season. I think we should be more forgiving in our aspirations"
Sorry but you have lost me there. I'm not sure what your post means, are you agreeing or disagreeing with my post ?

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 484 - 11/10/2019 20:37:11    2242895

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If you substituted Roscommon and Galway or Tyrone and Monaghan in for Meath and Kildare, Dublin would have had it a little harder but not much. Roscommon are better placed to be in with Galway and Mayo than Meath and Dublin. So I mean it's all about how you look at these things.

Munster is weak at the minute but that's a very recent thing. Connacht was very weak for a long time.

Ulster is not as strong as it was.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2860 - 11/10/2019 21:04:53    2242906

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With these Ulster teams having to peak so early you would expect them to give Dublin and Kerry awful hidings in the spring league games...

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2332 - 11/10/2019 21:19:47    2242911

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