Replying To TheUsername:  "What i love about the two finals this year, despite developing weapons of mass destruction, it was the smallest and slightest man on the man on the pitch who cut Kerry to shreds, both is his cameo in the first game and in the second game. Step forward Eoin Murchen or Munchkin as hes affectionately known in in the home of five in a row.

One of the abiding memories and an M.O. of this Dublin team will be one of the biggest men of the pitch in David Moran, hanging out of the smallest and Munchkin just burying it so skillfully with a sweet volley into the hill end, with David Moran hanging out of him.

Weapons of mass destruction indeed."

Replying To TheUsername:  "What i love about the two finals this year, despite developing weapons of mass destruction, it was the smallest and slightest man on the man on the pitch who cut Kerry to shreds, both is his cameo in the first game and in the second game. Step forward Eoin Murchen or Munchkin as hes affectionately known in in the home of five in a row.

One of the abiding memories and an M.O. of this Dublin team will be one of the biggest men of the pitch in David Moran, hanging out of the smallest and Munchkin just burying it so skillfully with a sweet volley into the hill end, with David Moran hanging out of him.

Weapons of mass destruction indeed."

Replying To ballydalane:  "Figure of speech, username. Besides, the atomic bomb wasn't that big either.

The point I was making had nothing to do with the size of the players being produced!"

Replying To GreenAndGold74:  "lol. The goal was scored at the CANAL end."

Replying To TheUsername:  "I think wha ist often missed, is Jim Gavin's role in coaching these players. I said a couple of years ago Dublin were in transition around 16/17 and many on here laughed at that statement as we were still bringing home the bacon. A phenomenal achievement in a transition process in my opinion, when you consider its contributory factor to the GAA unicorn mastered by Dublin, that is the 5 in a row.

But getting back to Gavin, what many dont mention is that Gavin had the vast majority of this group at underage as well and has over seen the vast majority of their coaching and progression from U 21 to senior. Hes an evolving coach but one who also improves his players year in and year out. You see so many class GAA players stay at the same level for years at an apex, but you feel there is more in them to improve.

Dublin players improve every year, year on year, that is down to coaching, there are lads in the Dublin team who did nothing or little and weren't standouts at underage, but are now household names in Dublin. Lads like Dean Rock couldn't get near the Dublin squad before Gavin. Brian Howard for example was a sub for the majority of the U20 winning campaign a few years back. Its Gavins ability to be able to coach an obvious skill set and improve players to be the best in the country that is often missed.

We saw the same cycle again this year, we gave more Championship and league debuts to younger players this year then anyone, we sometimes scratch our head here and wonder about players, Howard and Murchen being examples of players we have had to patient with. But Jim works with them over a long period of time, they improve, he trusts and the results are their for the viewing, just like Murch the last day.

Its that coaching toward continuous improvement, continuity from underage and trust, faith and perseverance with youth that is a key stone to Dubins success.

Its not instant, its bred on the fields in winter in the O Byrne cup, league etc in often years in the making before becoming a Howard, Scully, or a Murch emerges to what they become. We will see it again this year, with Flatman, O 'Connor, Gavin, Bugler, P Small, POCB, none house hold names yet. I could also give you a few names not even in the panel who we could well see in the spring and stand out next year not from the U 20 panel. We do have some exciting players coming of age from our U 20 finalist team as well. But it is Gavin approach to giving youth its fling, coaching and continuity that the key stone to it all.

I shudder to think of some of the players in this panel who may never have played for Dublin if Gavin wasn't the manager, how easy would it be for us to do a Tommy Walsh or Andy Moran, and persevere with legendary forwards over the last few years in Brogan, Flynn, Macker, O Gara, that's what an awful lot of what other counties do. That is down to Gavin and his approach to coaching and his trust in youth.

People talk of a conveyor belt of talent, or like your own industrial terms, their is a great skill in the identification, patience and nurturing of that talent and the ability to keep motivating those players to improvement year in year out. So much talent is wasted or goes untapped throughout the country in my opinion. Im just happy its not Dublin and that is down to a truly visionary manager. I dont think what we do and our approach t youth has ever been seen in GAA before and the bravery it requires to do it is in short supply, James Horan deserves credit this year though, i think hes looked at it and is following a similar vein.

For me, 13-16, was Gavin making the best of what he inherited and blooding, but it was a team he made the best off. The team form 16-19 is one entirely in his own image and philosophy of the game. I sense we are going into another transitional period if not next year the year after, but Gavin is already a bit down the road in his actions this year of transitioning the panel, we evolve in plain sight and one of the great achievements has been so successful in transitioning and winning. I will also say our club championship is hugely competitive and high on quality that is also a significant help as well.

What Gavin does in his approach to youth is very brave and coaching them to their true potential as an ongoing process over their carers is phenomenal and a brilliant example of the values of GAA, we dont make a song and a dance about like others who roll it out as mitigation, but their isn't a county in the country who bring through more young players then Dublin, its our way."

Replying To TheImmortal:  "Yes, Gavin is a huge factor in the success, would not like to be the man taking over from him, whenever that happens!"

Replying To TheUsername:  "I think wha ist often missed, is Jim Gavin's role in coaching these players. I said a couple of years ago Dublin were in transition around 16/17 and many on here laughed at that statement as we were still bringing home the bacon. A phenomenal achievement in a transition process in my opinion, when you consider its contributory factor to the GAA unicorn mastered by Dublin, that is the 5 in a row.

But getting back to Gavin, what many dont mention is that Gavin had the vast majority of this group at underage as well and has over seen the vast majority of their coaching and progression from U 21 to senior. Hes an evolving coach but one who also improves his players year in and year out. You see so many class GAA players stay at the same level for years at an apex, but you feel there is more in them to improve.

Dublin players improve every year, year on year, that is down to coaching, there are lads in the Dublin team who did nothing or little and weren't standouts at underage, but are now household names in Dublin. Lads like Dean Rock couldn't get near the Dublin squad before Gavin. Brian Howard for example was a sub for the majority of the U20 winning campaign a few years back. Its Gavins ability to be able to coach an obvious skill set and improve players to be the best in the country that is often missed.

We saw the same cycle again this year, we gave more Championship and league debuts to younger players this year then anyone, we sometimes scratch our head here and wonder about players, Howard and Murchen being examples of players we have had to patient with. But Jim works with them over a long period of time, they improve, he trusts and the results are their for the viewing, just like Murch the last day.

Its that coaching toward continuous improvement, continuity from underage and trust, faith and perseverance with youth that is a key stone to Dubins success.

Its not instant, its bred on the fields in winter in the O Byrne cup, league etc in often years in the making before becoming a Howard, Scully, or a Murch emerges to what they become. We will see it again this year, with Flatman, O 'Connor, Gavin, Bugler, P Small, POCB, none house hold names yet. I could also give you a few names not even in the panel who we could well see in the spring and stand out next year not from the U 20 panel. We do have some exciting players coming of age from our U 20 finalist team as well. But it is Gavin approach to giving youth its fling, coaching and continuity that the key stone to it all.

I shudder to think of some of the players in this panel who may never have played for Dublin if Gavin wasn't the manager, how easy would it be for us to do a Tommy Walsh or Andy Moran, and persevere with legendary forwards over the last few years in Brogan, Flynn, Macker, O Gara, that's what an awful lot of what other counties do. That is down to Gavin and his approach to coaching and his trust in youth.

People talk of a conveyor belt of talent, or like your own industrial terms, their is a great skill in the identification, patience and nurturing of that talent and the ability to keep motivating those players to improvement year in year out. So much talent is wasted or goes untapped throughout the country in my opinion. Im just happy its not Dublin and that is down to a truly visionary manager. I dont think what we do and our approach t youth has ever been seen in GAA before and the bravery it requires to do it is in short supply, James Horan deserves credit this year though, i think hes looked at it and is following a similar vein.

For me, 13-16, was Gavin making the best of what he inherited and blooding, but it was a team he made the best off. The team form 16-19 is one entirely in his own image and philosophy of the game. I sense we are going into another transitional period if not next year the year after, but Gavin is already a bit down the road in his actions this year of transitioning the panel, we evolve in plain sight and one of the great achievements has been so successful in transitioning and winning. I will also say our club championship is hugely competitive and high on quality that is also a significant help as well.

What Gavin does in his approach to youth is very brave and coaching them to their true potential as an ongoing process over their carers is phenomenal and a brilliant example of the values of GAA, we dont make a song and a dance about like others who roll it out as mitigation, but their isn't a county in the country who bring through more young players then Dublin, its our way."

Replying To TheUsername:  "I think wha ist often missed, is Jim Gavin's role in coaching these players. I said a couple of years ago Dublin were in transition around 16/17 and many on here laughed at that statement as we were still bringing home the bacon. A phenomenal achievement in a transition process in my opinion, when you consider its contributory factor to the GAA unicorn mastered by Dublin, that is the 5 in a row.

But getting back to Gavin, what many dont mention is that Gavin had the vast majority of this group at underage as well and has over seen the vast majority of their coaching and progression from U 21 to senior. Hes an evolving coach but one who also improves his players year in and year out. You see so many class GAA players stay at the same level for years at an apex, but you feel there is more in them to improve.

Dublin players improve every year, year on year, that is down to coaching, there are lads in the Dublin team who did nothing or little and weren't standouts at underage, but are now household names in Dublin. Lads like Dean Rock couldn't get near the Dublin squad before Gavin. Brian Howard for example was a sub for the majority of the U20 winning campaign a few years back. Its Gavins ability to be able to coach an obvious skill set and improve players to be the best in the country that is often missed.

We saw the same cycle again this year, we gave more Championship and league debuts to younger players this year then anyone, we sometimes scratch our head here and wonder about players, Howard and Murchen being examples of players we have had to patient with. But Jim works with them over a long period of time, they improve, he trusts and the results are their for the viewing, just like Murch the last day.

Its that coaching toward continuous improvement, continuity from underage and trust, faith and perseverance with youth that is a key stone to Dubins success.

Its not instant, its bred on the fields in winter in the O Byrne cup, league etc in often years in the making before becoming a Howard, Scully, or a Murch emerges to what they become. We will see it again this year, with Flatman, O 'Connor, Gavin, Bugler, P Small, POCB, none house hold names yet. I could also give you a few names not even in the panel who we could well see in the spring and stand out next year not from the U 20 panel. We do have some exciting players coming of age from our U 20 finalist team as well. But it is Gavin approach to giving youth its fling, coaching and continuity that the key stone to it all.

I shudder to think of some of the players in this panel who may never have played for Dublin if Gavin wasn't the manager, how easy would it be for us to do a Tommy Walsh or Andy Moran, and persevere with legendary forwards over the last few years in Brogan, Flynn, Macker, O Gara, that's what an awful lot of what other counties do. That is down to Gavin and his approach to coaching and his trust in youth.

People talk of a conveyor belt of talent, or like your own industrial terms, their is a great skill in the identification, patience and nurturing of that talent and the ability to keep motivating those players to improvement year in year out. So much talent is wasted or goes untapped throughout the country in my opinion. Im just happy its not Dublin and that is down to a truly visionary manager. I dont think what we do and our approach t youth has ever been seen in GAA before and the bravery it requires to do it is in short supply, James Horan deserves credit this year though, i think hes looked at it and is following a similar vein.

For me, 13-16, was Gavin making the best of what he inherited and blooding, but it was a team he made the best off. The team form 16-19 is one entirely in his own image and philosophy of the game. I sense we are going into another transitional period if not next year the year after, but Gavin is already a bit down the road in his actions this year of transitioning the panel, we evolve in plain sight and one of the great achievements has been so successful in transitioning and winning. I will also say our club championship is hugely competitive and high on quality that is also a significant help as well.

What Gavin does in his approach to youth is very brave and coaching them to their true potential as an ongoing process over their carers is phenomenal and a brilliant example of the values of GAA, we dont make a song and a dance about like others who roll it out as mitigation, but their isn't a county in the country who bring through more young players then Dublin, its our way."

Replying To ballydalane:  "Good post username, but you're kinda making my point. The Dublin team this decade has been a continuous evolution, aided and abetted by Gavin's brilliant coaching, ability to identify good young footballers and refusal to bow to blind loyalty to great players who are past their peak.

Kerry's success was with, more or less, the same group of players over the decade. Whether that was due to Micko being overly​ conservative and staying blindly loyal to the older players who had brought him such success, whether the good young players weren't there in Kerry by the mid 80s or Mick didn't trust them, I don't know (older Kerry posters would need to advise on that), but Kerry's success over that decade (75-86) and Dublin's success from 11-19 are two very different things.

So if someone was to ask, which was the best CONTINUOUS team, I would still say Kerry. Which was the best sustained period of producing and developing brilliant players? Dublin."

Replying To ballydalane:  "Good post username, but you're kinda making my point. The Dublin team this decade has been a continuous evolution, aided and abetted by Gavin's brilliant coaching, ability to identify good young footballers and refusal to bow to blind loyalty to great players who are past their peak.

Kerry's success was with, more or less, the same group of players over the decade. Whether that was due to Micko being overly​ conservative and staying blindly loyal to the older players who had brought him such success, whether the good young players weren't there in Kerry by the mid 80s or Mick didn't trust them, I don't know (older Kerry posters would need to advise on that), but Kerry's success over that decade (75-86) and Dublin's success from 11-19 are two very different things.

So if someone was to ask, which was the best CONTINUOUS team, I would still say Kerry. Which was the best sustained period of producing and developing brilliant players? Dublin."

Replying To TheUsername:  "Fair point, i would suggest though the game has changed radically Kerry for their for in a row played a maximum of four games a season. Dublin for example played 9 games this year that 60% more games.

Kerry played 17 games to do four in a row. Dublin manged to match the same feat in terms of games for 2015- Semi final 2017 in terms of games.

Dublin teams that started at the beginning and end of those games were:

2015:

S Cluxton,
J Cooper,
R O'Carroll,
P McMahon
J McCarthy,
C O'Sullivan,
J McCaffrey
B Fenton,
D Bastick;
P Flynn,
D Connolly,
C Kilkenny
B Brogan,
D Rock,
P Andrews

2017:
Stephen Cluxton;
Jonny Cooper,
Cian O'Sullivan,
Michael Fitzsimons;
John Small,
Philip McMahon,
Jack McCaffrey;
Brian Fenton,
James McCarthy;
Niall Scully,
Con O'Callaghan,
Ciaran Kilkenny;
Paul Mannion,
Paddy Andrews,
Dean Rock.


Not a huge difference in the turnover of players matching the same number of games, much of the changes were enforced also Dermo had been suspended (came on though), Bastick retired and Rory left the panel. Over a similar amount of games i.e. 17, Kerry and Dublin are fairly neck and neck.

Dublin are now 38 games unbeaten in the championship, to do 5 in a row, was 17 for Kerry to 4, there has been squad turnover certainly but that period of 17 games there wasnt wholesale changes in personal with any changes enforced.

The real transition took place in Dublin after they had matched Kerry run of games for four.

Different time and different games in different era admittedly."

Replying To sam1884:  "It's very hard to compare different era's and debates often take different angles. Despite the era teams have rivals, challengers and the need to prepare and remain focused. The reality is Kerry were unable to win the 5 in a row whereas Dublin were so statistically Dublin are the best and without any arguments have achieved something no team has achieved.

It's true Kerry used more of the same players but not to mention that era would leave a huge gap in the debate. For one the national football league was as many players have acknowledged "a p*** up" or a tour of the country with a ball threw onto a field at some stage over the weekend.

Ireland was in deep recession and there was no sign of the Celtic tiger leaving in particular little challenge coming from the Connacht Championship. The vast majority of Ulster was at war with the obvious problems those teams would have encountered. It's little coincidence when things started to somewhat settle in Ulster a number of All Ireland's were won in the 90's.

Munster as always was a hurling province moreso in those days with little thought or effort put into football and of course there was no back door. That left the Kerry team with one game to win in Munster and in reality only one challenger (Leinster Champions) in the All Ireland series. With no competitive National league the Kerry four in a row team had in essence two competitive games a year. It's therefore much easier to field the same team over a number of years compared to the current era when we have much stronger competitions, back door and a much larger workload.

I don't think Dublin being able to freshen up whilst being successful is a critcism. They're the best team ever but by introducing new systems and new players whilst at the top shows Gavin is probably the best football manager ever as well. Cody is a legend in hurling terms but he allowed his great Kilkenny team to stay at the top together resulting in a transitional era when they stepped aside together - Gavin has been ruthless which shows in football terms he is the best already and thinks about the overall well being of the county rather than loyality to individuals like all great sporting coaches.

I know Kerry won't like it but it's only a week since the 5 in a row and already we're seeing the effect this is having. I would hope all GAA success's prior to the 5 in a row are not forgotten about but I fear with the enormity of this achievement it will overshadow anything that happened before for future generations. The Offaly 1982 team and that famous goal will be talked about less now. It's like history now starts from 2019 for generations ahead.

Dublin have changed the landscape."