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Well said. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 06/08/2019 18:00:12 2221770 Link 4 |
The Provincial Championships are going nowhere. That's a reality that has to be accepted. A provincial group stage can work in football. Connaught - Mayo, Galway, Roscommon and Sligo. Munster - Kerry, Cork, Clare and Tipperary. Leinster: 1 - Dublin, Laois, Westmeath and Longford. 2 - Meath, Kildare, Louth and Offaly. Ulster: 1 - Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Fermanagh. 2 - Tyrone, Cavan, Down and Derry. * Ulster losing semi-finalists will have to playoff for 1 qualifier spot. Tier 2: West Group - Limerick, Waterford, Leitrim and London. Top 2 into semi-finals with winner promoted to their province. East Group - Carlow, Wicklow, Wexford and Antrim. Top 2 into semi-finals with winner promoted to their province. Tier 2 Final: Semi-final winners from each group. Tier 2 Champion: Can join the All-Ireland race of the same year. Qualifier Round 1: 4 provincial runners-up, 2 Leinster losing semi-finalists, 1 Ulster losing semi-finalist and Tier 2 winner. Example; Galway v Kildare Cork v Laois Tyrone v Limerick Meath v Cavan Qualifier Round 2: 4 Qualifier Round 1 winners. Example; Galway v Meath Cork v Tyrone Champions Round: 4 Provincial Winners. Example; Kerry v Donegal Dublin v Mayo (Presuming Mayo would finish above Roscommon in a round robin format.) Quarter-finals: 2 Champions Round losers and 2 Qualifier Round 2 winners. Example; Donegal v Galway Mayo v Tyrone Semi-finals: 2 Champions Round winners and 2 Quarter-final winners. Example; Kerry v Mayo Dublin v Donegal legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7873 - 06/08/2019 18:01:54 2221771 Link 0 |
Kerry hurlers are in the McDonagh Cup. We get on with the game. The hurling format has worked well. There is merit in applying it to the football championship.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7873 - 06/08/2019 18:05:34 2221774 Link 0 |
2 tier championship 2 groups of 8 in each tier with 3 going to the knockout stages would take the same number of game weeks to play as the current system. 4 Potential Provincial matches, 1 round 4 qualifiers, 3 group games, 2 play off rounds means 10 weeks. 7 group games, 3 playoff rounds is 10 games. Everyone in this system gets 7 games rather than 2 guaranteed. The group fixtures can be set ahead of the season to facilitate county board planning around the fixtures for the club competitions. It just makes so much sense. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4240 - 06/08/2019 19:01:13 2221807 Link 7 |
As I said it would need serious consideration, and there are plans to amalgamate some of these city and county councils and Northern Ireland now has a completely different system. But as it is the old county boundaries as units for meaningful competition just doesn't work for the GAA. . The fact that some managers say they cannot get players to join county squads because there have no hope of ever winning and All Ireland is another symptom. I would favour an open draw and knockout competition, no back door. That would shorten the time take for inter county championship but the problem is much greater. Mayfair (Galway) - Posts: 65 - 06/08/2019 19:21:13 2221816 Link 0 |
Not yet. None of your proposals are realistic. You're insulting your neighbours in Limerick by suggesting that they play in Tier 2. They beat Tipperary and lost by 6 points to Westmeath. A good result for a team who finished 7th in Div 4. 4 team groups are rubbish. Addressing the imbalances numerical between the provinces by creating a second tier is making a flawed system worse. Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 06/08/2019 19:47:07 2221831 Link 0 |
Why do we need to guarantee every county 7 games? The Championship will take longer than 10 weeks. The teams will need a break.
Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 06/08/2019 20:15:41 2221858 Link 0 |
To give players a good quality season and get more games in at the best time of year. I said it would take 10 game weekends. Played from May to September gives about 22 weeks of a season. Lots of time to schedule club games around the county fixtures. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4240 - 06/08/2019 20:39:56 2221872 Link 7 |
It woulsnt be good for the sport at all to go back to straight knock out competition. You should be adding more games not taking games away. Shortening time it takes some competitions to be played is answer as well. Provincial championships are played over far too long a time frame KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 06/08/2019 20:40:15 2221873 Link 0 |
Donaghy proposed this format on Off the Ball. It hasn't generated much interest. I don't think a two tier championship based on the League will ever pass through Congress unless the split happens during the championship. Too many weaker counties still want a crack at Div 2 and 1 teams.
Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 06/08/2019 21:02:55 2221893 Link 0 |
Provincial Championships are going nowhere. Hurling counties are happy enough with their 4 group games and they have a shorter league. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7873 - 06/08/2019 21:33:12 2221910 Link 0 |
I think the lamenting about dead rubbers is a bit over-done. Thought it was an OK game - lot better than sitting in the house not mowing the lawn - admittedly, the main interest was seeing new faces on each team pushing for a starting position, but I've seen worse games getting less abuse. And going to match is also a social occasion - you can't beat the Dubs for crack, the most cheerful fans in the country. You can say stuff to a Dublin fan that might get you into a row if said to a fan from another county, and the Dublin fan will fire it back at you, with interest, but it's all in good spirit. The travelling Dub is out to have a good time; and has little of the long-held grievances / conspiracy theories of people like me! essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 06/08/2019 22:52:59 2221971 Link 3 |
These games shouldn't happen at the QF stage.
Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 06/08/2019 23:09:35 2221978 Link 0 |
Not unless Sky fancy it will there ever be a change, GAA have made their bed now and are going to have to lie in it....
totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 920 - 07/08/2019 00:48:04 2221998 Link 0 |
Absolutely wrong that Mayo have to play another massive game 6 days on. No talk out of Croke Park about player burnout now, player welfare is only a term in GAA used to appease people, with a few sound bites to make it all look rosy, when the reality is far different. Mayo having had to play at full throttle for 77 minutes, must now play the Dublin A team who have had a nice break thanks to the dead rubber reserve team game, it's a joke but all the stars are aligning for Sky, Croke Parks & leading officials wish that the Dubs be coronated.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 07/08/2019 01:26:04 2222002 Link 0 |
I think they should just be played earlier in the season as each team's secondary competition. March April You could have a very short group stage in each. Munster and Connacht 2 groups of 3 Ulster give every team 2 games, 1 home, 1 away. A team progresses by getting 2 points from their 2 games. Any byes needed are based on performance in the first 2 games. Leinster a double elimination tournament. March April is too early for serious club football anyway in my opinion. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4240 - 07/08/2019 06:59:20 2222014 Link 6 |
I don't disagree about the concept of moving the provincial championships to earlier in the year. The reality is they are not being moved. Provincial groups of 4 are best suited to the football championship. It offers fairness that 1/3 teams can make it through from each province. That's 11 teams - 2 Connaught, 2 Munster, 3 Ulster and 4 Leinster. Allow the Tier 2 winner into the qualifiers as well, you have your Final 12. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7873 - 07/08/2019 09:36:50 2222047 Link 0 |
I just think the Provincial championships probably already have the games you want to see, without adding more games to it. Did Kerry really need to play Limerick this season. Would they need to play Cork in a round robin and again in a Munster final. The hurling groups work because the teams are evenly matched, the football in Munster and Leinster just doesn't have that in the same way. That's the problem with dividing the field into 4, there's going to be some sides that aren't well balanced. Splitting the field into 2 would be more exciting. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that the Provincials remain a part of the All Ireland. The CPA and GPA are both represented in the fixtures review committee. Both advocate for decoupling the Provincial championships from the All Ireland. It is the sensible answer. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4240 - 07/08/2019 19:03:33 2222331 Link 6 |
If you want to split the field: Qualifying Round (16 teams): 14, 15 or 16 highest placed league teams missing out on the provincial finals. Super 16: 4 groups of 4. 8 provincial finalists and 8 Qualifying Round winners. Provincial winners given 3 home games. All other teams given 1 home game. Top 2 from each group into the quarter-finals. Tommy Murphy Cup: 8 teams excluded from the qualifying round. Double elimination format. Winner guaranteed a Qualifying Round spot in the following year. Páidí Ó'Sé Cup: 8 Qualifying Round losers. Straight knockout format. Winner of this tournament also guaranteed a Qualifying Round spot in the following year. Ó'Sé Cup final and Murphy final can be played as a double header in Croke Park. Antrim for example: Year 1: 3rd in Division 4 and lose an Ulster quarter-final. They then win the Murphy Cup. Year 2: 3rd in Division 4, lose an Ulster quarter-final and lose in the Qualifying Round. Antrim make the Ó'Sé final. A second year in a row in Croke Park and an opportunity to secure a Qualifying Round spot in the following year. Murphy Cup and Ó'Sé Cup can assist counties set realistic targets for progression. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7873 - 07/08/2019 21:05:02 2222436 Link 0 |
Don't like cutting off 8 counties to rot in a lower tier Your other proposal had more merit if split 16/16 Connaught - Mayo, Galway, Roscommon Munster - Kerry, Cork, Clare. Leinster: - Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Laois Ulster: 1 - Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh. 2 - Tyrone, Cavan, Fermanagh Tier 2: Munster - Limerick, Waterford, Tipp Connacht - Sligo, Leitrim and London. Leinster 1 - Carlow, Wicklow, Wexford, Westmeath Leinster 2 - Longford, Louth, Offaly. Ulster - Antrim, Derry, Down Tier 2 provincial winners enter senior qualifiers Tier 2 All Ireland Champion - auto entry to senior provincial group Qualifier Round 1: 8 non provincial finalists - Mayo, Clare, Kildare, Laois, Tyrone, Monaghan, Armagh, Fermanagh Qualifier Round 2 : Round 1 winners v tier 2 provincial winners - Mayo, Tyrone, Laois, Clare v Leitrim, Offaly, Down, Limerick Qualifier Round 3 : 4 provincial runners-up v Round 2 winner Example; Galway v Mayo Cork v Laois Cavan v Tyrone Meath v Clare Qualifier Round 4: 4 Qualifier Round 3 winners. Example; Mayo v Meath Cork v Tyrone Champions Round: 4 Provincial Winners. Example; Kerry v Donegal Dublin v Roscommon Quarter-finals: 2 Champions Round losers and 2 Qualifier Round 2 winners. Example; Donegal v Mayo Roscommon v Tyrone Play Tier 2 Semis on same weekend Example; Offaly v Leitrim Down v Limerick Semi-finals: 2 Champions Round winners and 2 Quarter-final winners. Example; Kerry v Tyrone Dublin v Mayo Tier 2 final as curtain raiser to lesser attended semi Example; Offaly v Down - winner auto promotion to tier 1 next year tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1126 - 07/08/2019 23:46:33 2222522 Link 0 |