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Replying To legendzxix: "Killarney, Dr. Hyde Park, Ballybofey and Navan have been great host venues for the Super 8s. While the Super 8s has the flaw of dead rubbers in August, there is good in the format as well.
Ciaran Whelan's Super 10 idea might be worth considering:
Qualifier Round 3: (12 teams = 4 provincial runner-up and 8 Qualifier Round 2 winners)
Cavan v Kildare
Cork v Offaly
Galway v Armagh
Meath v Westmeath
Tyrone v Laois
Mayo v Clare
Super 10:
Group 1
Kerry
Donegal
Mayo
Meath
Galway
Group 2
Dublin
Roscommon
Tyrone
Cork
Cavan
* 2 home games each.
* Group winners into semi-finals.
* 2nd and 3rd placed teams into the quarter-finals. Similar enough format to the hurling championship only applied at the All-Ireland series stage." Following on from the above:
Quarter-finals:
Mayo v Roscommon
Donegal v Tyrone
Semi-finals
Dublin v Mayo/Roscommon
Kerry v Tyrone/Donegal
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 03/08/2019 22:30:49
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Format should allow for 3 inter county C'ship matches minimum, then straight knockout, let the clubs play again. We have situations where lads will have gone for the whole Summer, 12 weeks & will come back not having missed a game. In any sport it's ludicrous, but in GAA the absolute amateurish set up for club fixtures doesn't raise a peep. The reason is that most people don't really give a shit anymore about playing & are dropping out in massive numbers from 16 to 23 & becoming armchair GAA fans. The leadership of this Association are an embarrassment & should hang their heads in shame.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 04/08/2019 03:17:15
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I think from a player welfare view, the new format is not helping and will have to be reviewed.
Since they opened their qualifier campaign against Down on 22nd June, Mayo have played six games in seven weeks to get to the semi finals. They will play an All-Ireland semi-final the week after having played played an attritional de facto quarter final for the right to play the Dubs or Tyrone.
IMO it is no surprise that they have picked up so many injuries given their schedule at the moment.
I get that there should be a reward for winning your province but IMO the present format exacerbated the inequalities of the previous system. It could easily happen, for instance, that two of the top teams in Ulster draw each other in the preliminary round. The loser then has a grueling run of seven games in almost as many weeks to get to the semi-final, whereas Kerry play a few Division Three and Four teams before swanning into the Super 8s.
Push the final back to the third or fourth Sunday in September and allow a couple of extra rest weeks.
Also, it is very clear that the Super 8 system was designed for the purposes of money making rather than making the championship a better competition. Some of the higher echelons of the GAA seem to be oblivious to the high costs of taking a family to the games in a championship series these days. Mayo fans have been to New York, Newry, Limerick, Killarney and soon Dublin, all at the height of the tourist season. One man told me that it's costing him thousands of euro to take his family to all the league and championship games over a season and I'd well believe it.
As other posters have alluded to, some of the anomalies of the new system are putting people off.
There were two dead rubber games out of four in the final group games this weekend. Meanwhile, even as a Mayo fan I would say that it's very unfair that we are now in a semi-final having lost two championship games, whereas Donegal have been dumped out having lost one.
We've only had two good games out of the entire Super 8 stage of the championship this season. Bin it and bring back the quarter final weekend IMO.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 04/08/2019 08:31:50
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Replying To Jack_Goff: "Attendances are dropping because every man and his dog knows Dublin will win the next few AI. If the super 8's were brought in 10 years ago there would have been huge hype between 2010 and 2017. No matter what format they implement it won't matter as long as Dublin are dominant.
Over 9300 in Navan today for a match we couldn't get anything out of. Biggest meath crowd of the year that turned up to a match. Personally I don't even think of winning Sam anymore as we'll never beat Dublin ever again. So I'm just happy to a team like kerry in navan and enjoy the match for what it is." I'd agree with that.
I think rationally Dublin has to be divided at some point.
tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 04/08/2019 08:43:29
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Replying To Gleebo: "I think from a player welfare view, the new format is not helping and will have to be reviewed.
Since they opened their qualifier campaign against Down on 22nd June, Mayo have played six games in seven weeks to get to the semi finals. They will play an All-Ireland semi-final the week after having played played an attritional de facto quarter final for the right to play the Dubs or Tyrone.
IMO it is no surprise that they have picked up so many injuries given their schedule at the moment.
I get that there should be a reward for winning your province but IMO the present format exacerbated the inequalities of the previous system. It could easily happen, for instance, that two of the top teams in Ulster draw each other in the preliminary round. The loser then has a grueling run of seven games in almost as many weeks to get to the semi-final, whereas Kerry play a few Division Three and Four teams before swanning into the Super 8s.
Push the final back to the third or fourth Sunday in September and allow a couple of extra rest weeks.
Also, it is very clear that the Super 8 system was designed for the purposes of money making rather than making the championship a better competition. Some of the higher echelons of the GAA seem to be oblivious to the high costs of taking a family to the games in a championship series these days. Mayo fans have been to New York, Newry, Limerick, Killarney and soon Dublin, all at the height of the tourist season. One man told me that it's costing him thousands of euro to take his family to all the league and championship games over a season and I'd well believe it.
As other posters have alluded to, some of the anomalies of the new system are putting people off.
There were two dead rubber games out of four in the final group games this weekend. Meanwhile, even as a Mayo fan I would say that it's very unfair that we are now in a semi-final having lost two championship games, whereas Donegal have been dumped out having lost one.
We've only had two good games out of the entire Super 8 stage of the championship this season. Bin it and bring back the quarter final weekend IMO." The Super 8s did not hinder crowds in Killarney, Dr Hyde Park, Ballybofey, Navan and McHale Park.
Ciaran Whelan's Super 10 suggestion has merit. 4 Provincial Runners-up and 6 Qualifiers. 2 home games each. The format has worked in hurling. Qualifier Rounds 3 and 4 are combined for 8 Qualifier Round 2 winners and 4 Provincial Runners-up to battle it out for 6 qualifier spots.
If a team loses 2 group games in a 4 team round robin, they more than likely are out of the tournament. If a team loses a provincial round and a qualifier round they are out of the tournament. If the 8 lowest placed teams based on the league are excluded from the qualifiers, they can enter a Tier 2 to earn a qualifier spot in the following year. It will set a standard.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 04/08/2019 11:13:16
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Replying To Whammo86: "The champions round makes a lot of sense." Yes - but I feel the 5 rds to find the other SF 2 is too many - I prefer 6 Qualifiers from Rd 3 to AI QFs - as I've peddled many times.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2615 - 04/08/2019 23:21:21
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Replying To tyroneed: "I'd agree with that.
I think rationally Dublin has to be divided at some point." Teams based on Electoral Constituencies instead ?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2615 - 05/08/2019 01:07:44
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The main promotional time for GAA C'ship games & two counties field reserve teams for a dead rubber game that is played at a pace of a friendly game, it is hugely embarrassing for the Association. For those teams already gone for months, watching lads who never played inter county before till this w'end, playing at what is supposed to be the business end, must be extremely frustrating. For those involved in clubs, a reserve B game is now ahead of them, it sums up the total mess & lack of leadership over the last few years. Listening to Mickey Harte praising the whole thing just makes it even more galling, it was well termed, the coma in Omagh.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 06/08/2019 07:27:20
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Replying To moc.dna: "The main promotional time for GAA C'ship games & two counties field reserve teams for a dead rubber game that is played at a pace of a friendly game, it is hugely embarrassing for the Association. For those teams already gone for months, watching lads who never played inter county before till this w'end, playing at what is supposed to be the business end, must be extremely frustrating. For those involved in clubs, a reserve B game is now ahead of them, it sums up the total mess & lack of leadership over the last few years. Listening to Mickey Harte praising the whole thing just makes it even more galling, it was well termed, the coma in Omagh." It is unfortunate but both teams won the right to play a so-called dead rubber by virtue of qualifying for the super 8s round and winning their first two games.
While I would not be happy to watch Galway and Kerry for example field second teams in a super 8 game, I would accept that there must have been a good reason for them doing so. Like a semi final in 6 or 7 day's time.
OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 248 - 06/08/2019 10:16:17
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People have asked for a group stage format. The GAA have tried it out at the quarter-final stage. It inspired the hurling provincial group stage which has been more successful.
There needs to be discussion around implementing a provincial group stage in football. That should include some counties accept a Joe McDonagh type competition that excludes them from their provincial championship, offers them an opportunity of promotion to their provincial championship and offers a route into the All-Ireland race of the same year. It can be done. Hurling has shown it can be done.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 06/08/2019 10:59:48
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Replying To omahant: "Teams based on Electoral Constituencies instead ?" There will be great opposition to dividing "Dublin", as there is to all change, but surely for the good of GAA it has to be at least considered seriously.
Most inter county players play for their "local authority area' - their county (a British legacy by the way, but let's not go there).
There are now four such local authority areas in "Co. Dublin" - a local authority area that no longer exists.
Dublin City Council - population approx 550,000
Fingal County Council -population approx 296,000
Dublin South County Council - population approx 279,000
Dún Laoghaire - Rathdown County Council - population 217,000
So, in theory, there could be four teams, all still drawing on populations far bigger than most counties.
Just for comparison
MeathCounty - approx population 195,000
Kerry County - approx population 148,000
Mayo County - approx population 131,000
Donegal County - approx population 159,000
Tyrone County - approx population 180,000 (Northern Ireland has a completely different system of local Government)
Mayfair (Galway) - Posts: 65 - 06/08/2019 11:00:15
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Replying To Mayfair: "There will be great opposition to dividing "Dublin", as there is to all change, but surely for the good of GAA it has to be at least considered seriously.
Most inter county players play for their "local authority area' - their county (a British legacy by the way, but let's not go there).
There are now four such local authority areas in "Co. Dublin" - a local authority area that no longer exists.
Dublin City Council - population approx 550,000
Fingal County Council -population approx 296,000
Dublin South County Council - population approx 279,000
Dún Laoghaire - Rathdown County Council - population 217,000
So, in theory, there could be four teams, all still drawing on populations far bigger than most counties.
Just for comparison
MeathCounty - approx population 195,000
Kerry County - approx population 148,000
Mayo County - approx population 131,000
Donegal County - approx population 159,000
Tyrone County - approx population 180,000 (Northern Ireland has a completely different system of local Government)" Any discussion on splitting Dublin and hence breaking the traditional inter county model must then consider amalgamations and realignment of other counties. Why just look at local authority areas?
It cannot be about just splitting Dublin. Everything will be put up for grabs in any new 'inter county' scenario.
CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 06/08/2019 11:27:11
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Replying To tyroneed: "I'd agree with that.
I think rationally Dublin has to be divided at some point." And then, rationally, every other traditional inter county boundary needs to be looked at with a view to amalgamations and realignments. It cannot just be about splitting Dublin. Everything will be up for grabs.
CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 06/08/2019 11:29:21
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Replying To CornAghais91: "And then, rationally, every other traditional inter county boundary needs to be looked at with a view to amalgamations and realignments. It cannot just be about splitting Dublin. Everything will be up for grabs." If Dublin is ever split, Dublin should be given a concession of hosting the Railway Cup final every year on St. Patrick's Day.
Example:
QF: Munster v Ulster and Connaught v Leinster
SF: Munster or Ulster v Connaught or Leinster
Final: Dublin v semi-final winner on the 17th of March in Croke Park.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 06/08/2019 12:10:05
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Replying To legendzxix: "If Dublin is ever split, Dublin should be given a concession of hosting the Railway Cup final every year on St. Patrick's Day.
Example:
QF: Munster v Ulster and Connaught v Leinster
SF: Munster or Ulster v Connaught or Leinster
Final: Dublin v semi-final winner on the 17th of March in Croke Park." It's an interesting idea but the Railway Cup is inter provincial. Am I misty eyed or does anyone else miss the days when the Railway Cup really meant something and still commanded big interest and attendance. Right up to the late 80s anyway it still meant something. My father could recall days when the Railway Cup Final would attract up to 60,000 people. I suppose that's for another thread. :(
CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 06/08/2019 12:31:33
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Replying To legendzxix: "If Dublin is ever split, Dublin should be given a concession of hosting the Railway Cup final every year on St. Patrick's Day.
Example:
QF: Munster v Ulster and Connaught v Leinster
SF: Munster or Ulster v Connaught or Leinster
Final: Dublin v semi-final winner on the 17th of March in Croke Park." Please stop with this Dublin is a province stuff.
It's boring how much you go on about it.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 06/08/2019 13:06:16
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Replying To Mayfair: "There will be great opposition to dividing "Dublin", as there is to all change, but surely for the good of GAA it has to be at least considered seriously.
Most inter county players play for their "local authority area' - their county (a British legacy by the way, but let's not go there).
There are now four such local authority areas in "Co. Dublin" - a local authority area that no longer exists.
Dublin City Council - population approx 550,000
Fingal County Council -population approx 296,000
Dublin South County Council - population approx 279,000
Dún Laoghaire - Rathdown County Council - population 217,000
So, in theory, there could be four teams, all still drawing on populations far bigger than most counties.
Just for comparison
MeathCounty - approx population 195,000
Kerry County - approx population 148,000
Mayo County - approx population 131,000
Donegal County - approx population 159,000
Tyrone County - approx population 180,000 (Northern Ireland has a completely different system of local Government)" Your plan, BTW, at its most basic, will split Galway & Cork in two (City & County Councils), Dublin in four, leaving us with 31 teams. As for our Northern counterparts, Antrim would need to be split in two, at least, and possibly Derry too, to follow your logic. This would have to filter down to club level too, of course. You may wish to think about extending the length of a calendar year just to fit in the extra fixtures, at club level and inter-local authority level for the NFL & AI.
CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 06/08/2019 16:12:51
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Replying To KillingFields: "Please stop with this Dublin is a province stuff.
It's boring how much you go on about it." Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Provincial funding = Provincial status. It is what it is. Let's get on with the game.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 06/08/2019 17:07:28
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I think we should move to a 32 team knockout championship. Open draw with a backdoor until the Senior QFs. The teams who fail to qualify for the Senior QFs could enter a second tier (or third tier) championship depending on how far they make it. We can't wrap teams in cotton wool. Sligo may face Dublin in Round 1 and they will likely suffer a heavy beating but that happens in all sports. The clubs don't want a long running championship so the options for reform are very limited.
Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 06/08/2019 17:31:55
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Replying To legendzxix: "Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Provincial funding = Provincial status. It is what it is. Let's get on with the game." They dont get provincial funding they get large funding because of population. There is a distinct difference.
You say get on with the game yet your only proposals for change are about minimal changes that just ultimately help your own county and dont think beyond that
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 06/08/2019 17:44:51
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