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Analyst Claims Dubs 'Actually Being Underfunded'

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Replying To lowballplease: "I think attendances are down outside Croker due to the fact that supporters do not believe Dublin can be beaten particularly when the game is stacked in their favour. And dubs are not attending because the games are no contest that they play in. All the GAA money & sponsorship Dublin get, the 2 home games in the super 8s (would Donegal not be delighted to get 2 home games by hosting Mayo this weekend?), the home provincial final (the rest of us have home and away arrangements) is anti-competitive. Dublin are the best team I've seen ever but there will always be a question over the fact that it isn't a level playing field." I disagree on attendances being down due to Dublin's dominance. Four of the six finals won by Dublin since 2011 have been won by 1 point. Mayo should have won two of those finals IMO. Why would Dublin's dominance affect attendance in the provincial championships anyway? On Croke Park games, you didn't answer my question on that. Ok so perhaps 1 Dublin S8 game could be in Thurles, rule change required, and another LSFC game in Portlaoise. Would that make a difference? Croke Park is not Ballybofey. How many times have the top teams played championship in Croke Park versus Ballybofey. All of the top players know Croke Park very well. It is a neutral venue in Dublin. On sponsorship, Dublin work hard to strike sponsorship deals, no different than Kerry and their deals with the multi-billion euro Kerry Group who donated €1m to their centre of excellence. No county should be penalised for working to generate their own revenue. On GDF money, the jury is out. There's definitely a case for a wider distribution despite Dublin's challenge in trying to service such a large population but as Tomas O'Se said... Trust me, you could throw money at any team you like and it wouldn't bring a guarantee of success. That point seems to get overlooked in every conversation about the Dubs. Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 01/08/2019 10:27:27 2219340 Link
Replying To Ulsterman: "For as long as I've been posting on HS I've maintained that Antrim and Belfast were shamefully underfunded by the Association given their population, number of clubs and members and potential. I was often told that I was being paranoid, jealous, begrudging etc etc. Now that the GAA hierarchy, sports bodies CEO's, some journalists and Dub fans are saying "Dublin gets this money because of their population size" I say "OK, if that's the case can Belfast now have our proportional cut from Croke Park which would work out at 6/7 million given what they have given Dublin". I think that's a fair and legitimate argument." Im curious about one thing when it comes to funding in the six counties, say Dublin take 200k from central council for GDF, the other 1 mill provided by the Irish Sports Council, im not sure whether they have jurisdiction over the border i assume not, is there a pathway there for the likes of Down and Antrim to make a case to government dept (i know stormont is in abeyance) for funding? Or do they get any type of state funding or support? TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 01/08/2019 10:31:07 2219344 Link
Replying To Joxer: "I disagree on attendances being down due to Dublin's dominance. Four of the six finals won by Dublin since 2011 have been won by 1 point. Mayo should have won two of those finals IMO. Why would Dublin's dominance affect attendance in the provincial championships anyway? On Croke Park games, you didn't answer my question on that. Ok so perhaps 1 Dublin S8 game could be in Thurles, rule change required, and another LSFC game in Portlaoise. Would that make a difference? Croke Park is not Ballybofey. How many times have the top teams played championship in Croke Park versus Ballybofey. All of the top players know Croke Park very well. It is a neutral venue in Dublin. On sponsorship, Dublin work hard to strike sponsorship deals, no different than Kerry and their deals with the multi-billion euro Kerry Group who donated €1m to their centre of excellence. No county should be penalised for working to generate their own revenue. On GDF money, the jury is out. There's definitely a case for a wider distribution despite Dublin's challenge in trying to service such a large population but as Tomas O'Se said... Trust me, you could throw money at any team you like and it wouldn't bring a guarantee of success. That point seems to get overlooked in every conversation about the Dubs." If Mayo had a tiny bit of luck and another quality forward they'd have beaten Dublin and this conversation wouldn't be happening. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 01/08/2019 10:33:58 2219345 Link
Replying To Joxer: "I disagree on attendances being down due to Dublin's dominance. Four of the six finals won by Dublin since 2011 have been won by 1 point. Mayo should have won two of those finals IMO. Why would Dublin's dominance affect attendance in the provincial championships anyway? On Croke Park games, you didn't answer my question on that. Ok so perhaps 1 Dublin S8 game could be in Thurles, rule change required, and another LSFC game in Portlaoise. Would that make a difference? Croke Park is not Ballybofey. How many times have the top teams played championship in Croke Park versus Ballybofey. All of the top players know Croke Park very well. It is a neutral venue in Dublin. On sponsorship, Dublin work hard to strike sponsorship deals, no different than Kerry and their deals with the multi-billion euro Kerry Group who donated €1m to their centre of excellence. No county should be penalised for working to generate their own revenue. On GDF money, the jury is out. There's definitely a case for a wider distribution despite Dublin's challenge in trying to service such a large population but as Tomas O'Se said... Trust me, you could throw money at any team you like and it wouldn't bring a guarantee of success. That point seems to get overlooked in every conversation about the Dubs." Attendances are becoming irrelevant to the Gaa, its like the way its gone in soccer, they used to be the single biggest revenue driver but increasingly other revenue streams for the GAA are taking over. Last year was the first year, that premium seating/corporate boxes/catering revenue outstripped overall attendances. when i saw the figures last week i thought of the poor souls on here who look at attendance figures with baited breath, to prove their point every week The GAA in my opinion dont give a fiddlers about attendances the big money is now in premium, corporate boxs and filling Croke Park. its the reason Dublin are on the ticket every time and take the prime time spot, its why i would be surprise if it changed and its why the S8 games will continue to be in Croke Park. This will be an ever increasing trend. You can forget about any rank and file attendance holding much sway increasingly in my opinion. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 01/08/2019 10:41:20 2219347 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "If Mayo had a tiny bit of luck and another quality forward they'd have beaten Dublin and this conversation wouldn't be happening." It's all ifs and maybes however IF we had a Michael Murphy, Diarmuid Connolly etc then I think we would have won at least one All Ireland. But could Have won without them too with as you say a bit of luck. I think the falling attendance at Dublin games do speak volumes though. Dublin fans seem to be also getting fed up of hammering most teams. Saving their cash for "bigger" games and who could blame them. yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11240 - 01/08/2019 10:55:26 2219349 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Attendances are becoming irrelevant to the Gaa, its like the way its gone in soccer, they used to be the single biggest revenue driver but increasingly other revenue streams for the GAA are taking over. Last year was the first year, that premium seating/corporate boxes/catering revenue outstripped overall attendances. when i saw the figures last week i thought of the poor souls on here who look at attendance figures with baited breath, to prove their point every week The GAA in my opinion dont give a fiddlers about attendances the big money is now in premium, corporate boxs and filling Croke Park. its the reason Dublin are on the ticket every time and take the prime time spot, its why i would be surprise if it changed and its why the S8 games will continue to be in Croke Park. This will be an ever increasing trend. You can forget about any rank and file attendance holding much sway increasingly in my opinion." Good point. I should imagine that TV rights is generating quite a bit of revenue also but I haven't seen the numbers. The extra S8 games no doubt are compensating for any depletion of numbers at individual games versus previous years. I should imagine they have their revenue bases covered. Tom Ryan is an accountant afterall. Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 01/08/2019 11:11:03 2219358 Link
Replying To Joxer: "Good point. I should imagine that TV rights is generating quite a bit of revenue also but I haven't seen the numbers. The extra S8 games no doubt are compensating for any depletion of numbers at individual games versus previous years. I should imagine they have their revenue bases covered. Tom Ryan is an accountant afterall." Revenue from rank and file attendances overall was down last year, but to be honest i put that down less replays last year then the year before in Croke Park. 2017 was a bumper year for that with Mayo hell bent on replays, but an anomaly. But commercial figures continued to grow, as gate revenue dropped, like i said corporate boxes/premium tickets and catering earned more for the GAA then rank and file attendances. Revenue streams are becoming increasingly diversified, with attendances while important are increasingly becoming less so. Croke Park is where its at for the GAA as a revenue driver as will TV and sponsorship increasingly in the time ahead. Dublin are the perfect vehicle in all honesty. You wonder why Dublin havent built a 30k stadium, there is your answer. Hopefully PUC when they trouble shoot can do similar for the GAA. Attendances are yesterdays news really, i really think they are less relevant then are often advertised strategically. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 01/08/2019 11:31:41 2219373 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "The blue wave report would have an agenda in terms of making the case for funding being required (both from GAA and national purse), there would be an element of spin to it. To me the figures seem unlikely due to the fact that many high population areas of Dublin such as Tallaght are served by few clubs (we often hear this being brought up on threads on this website). I presume the funding we are discussing is for all under age groups. If this is the case most of this funding would not be for the Go Games age groups (Go Games only cover young kids before they play U12). Also I would doubt if the number of kids who at some point take part in Go Games is representative overall of how many under-age players actually take part in all the under-age age groups. I have heard some town clubs joking that some parents treat the Go Games age groups as a kind of baby sitting service where they can get kids minded at times when it suits." All of those are fair criticisms. Really if I could find it I'd like more information on registered members, how they've progressed over time. How the rates drop off over time across counties. I'd really like to see projections of the expected number of members in 20 years time for instance. When you see that already over 45% of the population of the entire Island are being born in Leinster currently and when you add in the fact that a lot of the growth is caused by inward migration you've got to think that there's going to be many more playing Gaelic Games in Dublin in the next 20 years. The penetration rate in the population has been lower than other areas historically, I think there's good reason to believe that it will come more into line. Raw population numbers are definitely not a good metric for estimating how fair the distributions are. Neither are current registered player numbers though either. These are not static. The are also dependent on the action taken by the GAA and surely it is part of the core objectives of their mission to grow these. I think you also have to take into account that whilst Dublin will likely retain a lower percentage participation rate of their population than the rest of the country they also seem to be putting up more of their own money to fund their development officers. It's 50/50 in Dublin. Looking at the Munster GAA accounts for 2017 https://munster.gaa.ie/about-munster-gaa/annual-reports/ They receive about 950k per year from Central Council to fund development personnel. In expenditures the in 2017 they paid out 1.2m on development personnel. So Munster GAA are putting up a little over 20% of their on money to development staff compared with Dublin. To a certain extent that does negate somewhat the fact that Dublin will retain less of the players that benefit from the coaching. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 01/08/2019 11:41:19 2219379 Link
Replying To jobber: "No the answer other counties want are to actually receive a decent percentage of the 1.2 million Dublin get nothing more nothing less." 11 million in total is spent of games development funding. Do you want Dublin's cut to 0. Why would that be fair or sensible for the GAA to do? Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 01/08/2019 12:06:49 2219390 Link
The GAA/DUBLIN PR machine have really mobilized on this thread - as they do on any thread that attempts to address the imbalance of funding & power within the increasingly commercialized organization. Unfortunately not many other counties can afford to retain media managers, but there you go. Repeat the same narrative again & again & hope that it sticks. greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 01/08/2019 12:48:25 2219405 Link
Replying To greysoil: "The GAA/DUBLIN PR machine have really mobilized on this thread - as they do on any thread that attempts to address the imbalance of funding & power within the increasingly commercialized organization. Unfortunately not many other counties can afford to retain media managers, but there you go. Repeat the same narrative again & again & hope that it sticks." Good, deal with it We've had to listen to some amount of nonsense for long enough Again, get used to it. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 01/08/2019 13:39:12 2219428 Link
Replying To yew_tree: "It's all ifs and maybes however IF we had a Michael Murphy, Diarmuid Connolly etc then I think we would have won at least one All Ireland. But could Have won without them too with as you say a bit of luck. I think the falling attendance at Dublin games do speak volumes though. Dublin fans seem to be also getting fed up of hammering most teams. Saving their cash for "bigger" games and who could blame them." Not even a Murphy or Connolly A Paddy Andrews would have done For me Mayo's main issue was your half backs weren't able to have their usual bearing coming forward and this definitely negated one of Mayo's best ways of getting scores on the board. Your half backs made up that slight short fall up front against other teams. But yeah as I said you were very unlucky at times too. Could have easily beaten Dublin in 13, 15, 16, 17 And this whole circus wouldn't be a thing But the collective amnesia about the ultimate competitiveness of these games is very odd indeed. There's no doubt about a purposeful revisionism at play and down playing some of the most competitive games ever seen. It's all there as clear as day. Many prime opportunities were not taken. Hence a chance for #5 and easily the most competitive #4 in a row ever witnessed? Furlong? jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 01/08/2019 13:58:42 2219440 Link
The one thing i do find a bit odd is the assumption that if Mayo or ANother had maybe sneaked an All Ireland for example that there would be no issue at all which is completely not the case. If Dublin werent doing what they are doing then it would be an even bigger issue. The problem with these debates is it descends into the usual rhetoric of every thread, the issue at hand is not an issue of Dublins making, its a GAA issue or more specifically a GAA HQ issue. Dublin have done nothing wrong, hence my argument if they werent so successful it would be a worse issue, if Dublin are being given funds by the power that be then there in no position to turn it down, why would they? If any county were in the same position they would do exactly the same, its not up to Dublin to refuse to take whats on offer. But the inequality of funding has to be looked at seriously but it isnt up to Dublin to raise this issue, there is a groundswell of genuine GAA people who are becoming more and more disenchanted by what the GAA at the highest level are doing. Theres no point in saying deal with it through County Boards and GAA convention etc, i mean these are the same people who voted against there being transparency in their voting, that tells you everything about that approach. I think we are reaching a tipping point again, the GPA should be demanding action but wont now that they sit under the GAA umbrella, they have huge power but choose not to utilise it due to having their feet under the table. But something has got to give imho. tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 01/08/2019 14:24:53 2219449 Link
Replying To CornAghais91: "I'm very worried about the contents of this article. It seems that Dublin GAA is being underfunded. I want to know who this can be addressed and how Dublin GAA can be brought up to the same standard as other counties, funding wise." Ha ha brilliant. Maybe Dublin should get the funding that the weaker counties get as they would only waste it anyway lol. Sure Donegal can give you their funding, we dont need it, we can get Daniel to raise some money and make us a charity record. Surely the threat of Daniel singing is enough for everyone to agree that increasing the funding to Donegal is a good idea. Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1876 - 01/08/2019 14:29:20 2219453 Link
"Repeat the same narrative again & again & hope that it sticks." Ohhh the irony is strong in this one Priceless stuff Gas.. some just can't hack debate and want all the noise going in one direction.. It's quite telling and the selective condemnation even more so. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 01/08/2019 14:36:42 2219457 Link
Replying To jimbodub: ""Repeat the same narrative again & again & hope that it sticks." Ohhh the irony is strong in this one Priceless stuff Gas.. some just can't hack debate and want all the noise going in one direction.. It's quite telling and the selective condemnation even more so." Well with respect Jim, I never suspected you as part of the media arm. greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 01/08/2019 14:45:00 2219461 Link
Replying To jimbodub: ""Repeat the same narrative again & again & hope that it sticks." Ohhh the irony is strong in this one Priceless stuff Gas.. some just can't hack debate and want all the noise going in one direction.. It's quite telling and the selective condemnation even more so." Irony your new word Jim. Please use it in the correct context. Scarleh greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 01/08/2019 14:47:04 2219463 Link
Can any older heads here confirm if there was the same debate when Kerry were winning the All Ireland nearly every year? yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11240 - 01/08/2019 14:54:27 2219466 Link
Replying To greysoil: "The GAA/DUBLIN PR machine have really mobilized on this thread - as they do on any thread that attempts to address the imbalance of funding & power within the increasingly commercialized organization. Unfortunately not many other counties can afford to retain media managers, but there you go. Repeat the same narrative again & again & hope that it sticks." PR Machine...... Now where did I hear that or something similar before???? http://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/101176?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=101176 keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 01/08/2019 14:57:38 2219467 Link
Replying To keithlemon: "PR Machine...... Now where did I hear that or something similar before???? Ah" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/101176?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=101176" Ah damn you caught me out Brucie!! greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 01/08/2019 15:12:40 2219480 Link

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