National Forum

The Dubs, The Monies & The Prejudices

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Replying To westkerry:  "Absolutely Joxer spot on, A complete disconnect with what the normal man and woman of the organisation thinks.
Read my post again point out what ive said thats not true Joxer? No deflection or look whatabourty now."
Well I've only just read your post and immediately thought of the IRFU and distribution of funds for games development. In 2016 the IRFU spent €7.1m on games development. Leinster received €2.8m, Connacht €1m, Munster €1.3m and Ulster €2m. I wonder why Leinster received 3 times as much as Connacht and 2 times as much as Munster. So this is games development funding and Leinster receiving multiples of that given to other provinces. Why would the IRFU distribute funds so disproportionately? I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 28/06/2019 23:25:45    2202231

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I am going to get slated, disowned and ridiculed for this, but....sometimes you gotta be honest and say what you see. Re funding I don't know enough to make an educated comment but, on the face of it, it DOES seem unfair
Playing all our home games in Croker absolutely is wrong and playing purchase neutral game in super 8s in Croker plus our home game IS wrong. We do get special benefits, we do have unfair advantageso and hand on heart, our current dominance IS compromised. I tool this view in recent years hence my lack of involvement on HS in recent years
Breaks my heart to admit that

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 28/06/2019 23:33:39    2202234

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Bottom line; there's 15 Dublinmen that the rest of the country haven't been able to beat in the last last 5 years.

Kerry can't put out 15 men to beat them.
Mayo can't put out 15 men to beat them.
Tyrone can't put out 15 men to beat them.
Donegal can't put out 15 men to beat them.
Meath can't put out 15 men to beat them.
Kildare can't put out 15 men to beat them.

Blame " funding" all you want for your own shortcomings.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 28/06/2019 23:50:00    2202241

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Replying To westkerry:  "As a matter of interest why shouldn't it be invested in Tyrone hurling?
National Games development funding.
Mask is slipping."
Don't ask me ask the Tyrone lads, I think they would rather have Rugby, Netball, Hockey rather than hurling.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 29/06/2019 00:23:03    2202243

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Replying To SurelyToGod:  "The funding is, of course, scandalous, but I don't think anyone should reasonably expect any major changes. Dublin, rightfully, receive the majority of funding due to having the most players etc. Success at the highest level ultimately comes hand in hand with that, but I believe Dublin would have won 5 in a row regardless.

The GAA have, for all intents and purposes, decided on a plan which leads to the game going professional. For this to happen, the game needs to be strong in schools in Dublin. If you agree with the sport going professional, then this must be considered a good thing. The problem is, a professional sport cannot be expected to thrive when it's premier competition is as archaic and lopsided as the All-Ireland Championship, and there doesn't seem to be any great movement from the men involved in councils to change this, whether it be their own pushback vs professionalism, apathy, or incompetence. (Fingers pointed as Donegal's hilariously bad motion at congress RE: the Super 8s in Croke Park).

Regardless of what's coming in the next 10 years for the game - it should be easy to fix the Championship to keep up with the other sports, whilst protecting our ethos."
You have hit upon one thing there that is been hidddn by the whole funding debate & that is your point on how the GAA hierarchy led by the outgoing Uachtaran & Ard Stiurthoir have led the Association towards professionalism & the Super 8's is the model. In the greed for TV rights money they are now been dictated to as to the model that TV wants & that is the big teams playing each other only, the teams who will draw the crowds & sponsorship. It has now got so big in some counties & representative bodies like the GPA with lots of people on big salaries that it has to keep on the road to commercialism & professionalism. To that end the GAA have facilitated the biggest draw in the Dubs, through the funding, games in Croke Park, the home dressing room, warming up at the Hill, two home games in Super 8's, the main officers in the Association now all from Dublin or involved with Dublin clubs, it has created a massive gulf between the haves & have nots. Gaa is in serious trouble in some counties at club level & if those counties slip off the radar, they won't recover. But who cares once a Uachtaran comes out with statements like Leinster will be competitive again soon & ignores the actual facts & once the TV rights money keeps rolling & they can say they turned over x amount in profit & what they will distribute back to clubs, clubs whose pitches are perfect at the moment from having no games for 3 months of the Summer,they don't care. Let them keep going with the inequity, it will only hasten the death of the whole thing & a new Association may emerge from it where people & clubs are put to the forefront, not the elitist approach we have at present.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 29/06/2019 00:29:17    2202244

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Replying To PyatPree:  "Oh Christ another forum obsessing with dublin"
Wannabe.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 29/06/2019 00:31:48    2202245

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Replying To waynoI:  "If you're expecting to come on here and write long posts about this topic that raises its head constantly and expect to change peoples perception or view, you're wasting your time.

There are valid points on both sides of the argument and while there are people on both sides who talk an awful lot of sense, there are also people on both sides of the argument who talk an awful lot of bollocks. The infuriating aspect of this whole debate for me is that the vast majority of people are so biased that the counter points made, even superbly balanced and well thought out points, are ignored.

Me personally l appreciate that people have their views, their own opinions, their thoughts, and as much as I may agree or disagree, I don't want to waste my time going around in circles on a topic on something that's become pretty boring, tiresome and debated as nauseum.

Ultimately - The whole ethos of the GAA in inherently flawed. Most sports are inherently flawed. Even if all the financial issues were sorted, you'd the have people talking about population differences with one county having a wider pick over another etc. There will always be complaints, and people will always talk a massive load of waffle and expect perfection, but its impossible. It'll never happen. Not in any of our life times in any case.

RE: people not appreciating Dublin's greatness. To my recollection, I cant think of many sports teams in my life time (born early 90s) who were *fully* appreciated while they where still on the scene on the scene ? Manchester United under Ferguson, The great Kilkenny team that won 4 all Irelands in a row 06-09 and 8 in 10 years between 2006 and 2015. No-one likes teams dominating, but when it ends, and Dublin go through a bit of a famine (and it will) , People, not only outside of Dublin, but within Dublin will only full appreciate the magnitude of 4 all Irelands in a row (so far, hopefully 5), how good they are/were and people will hold this team up on a pedestal for decades to come, and ill be telling my kids the stories of this team and all of their achievements.

I watch them home and away. Hail , sun, wind, rain, sleet & snow. I've seen them overcome unreal obstacles like the Mayo and Kerry teams who have pushed them close over the years. I've seen their work rate and application, I'm aware of records they've smashed and the ones in their sights, I think I appreciate how good they are but maybe I don't and in time I will, But I know they're special and above all that, they're really nice, good human beings who in my experiences of them have been nothing superb in giving their time to fans especially kids. They're a credit to the city, the county, their clubs, their families, friends and to us. I don't think we should be insecure and need people from outside of Dublin to tell us how great we are. Don't let it keep you up at night. Even if they don't say it out loud, You'd have to be either in serious denial, blind, or both to not appreciate the brilliance of Dublin."
This tiresome argument is only about one sport, Gaelic football and not even club Gaelic football at that. GAA clubs in Dublin are mostly all inclusive, all code, cross gender sports clubs. This has only been possible by forward thinking volunteers in Dublin, tirelessly promoting the games in local schools. This great Dublin team was leaving primary when the fruits of that foresight was invested in the local game. Games development officers are part paid by clubs and county and in some cases by GAA where clubs are severely disadvantaged. Dublin invested time, lots of it in developing a process, system, selection, games development it has really only worked in Ladies and Mens football. Dublin's big problem was picking quality from a large pool and they have cracked that. They know they don;t need to be winning, Minor, U20's etc they just need a few players coming into the senior setup and a few leaving, maintaining standards. It won't last forever and the begrudgers will find some other target. But this argument has very very little to do with money, it is about sour grapes. Look at Slaughtneil in Derry - that is truly remarkable, far more remarkable than what Dublin footballers have done. And look at the wreck that passes for counties surrounding Dublin? they are a mess. In Naas last saturday there was far more Dublin jerseys on display than Kildare ones. This is not about money, a small minority of people here believe it is because its an easy troll, but it is not the truth or the reality. Dublin GAA is far bigger than its Gaelic football teams and that takes nothing away from them. Thousands are playing the games that is what this is all about.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 29/06/2019 00:39:18    2202246

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Replying To bottletopbill:  "These are different times. An offally,Westmeath, Kildare, Laois or Westmeath will never win a Leinster title again in its current state.Dublin will win the next infinity Leinster titles in a row, they got their act together and fair play to them just as Kerry will in munster, Clare 1992 and that's it with the very odd cork title. Not that long ago dubs wud have a sell out for a first round, not anymore, 50k Leinster final against Meath??? Munster final 18k crowd?? Seriously, Gaelic football is in serious trouble, going to be impossible to motivate players in lesser counties from here on out. You just can't put in that professional effort year after year with the hope of keeping a score line down. The futures youth won't do it and I can't say I blame them. Change badly needed."
Good post. Ask yourself this, who do you see at the upper echelons of the Association who is going to tackle this head on & change things, who ? The answer is nobody, when someone will ignore all the facts about the Leinster titles & the days before another whitewash say, that the province will be competitive again very soon, what hope is there for change. Club players, volunteers, sponsors, parents, supporters are shrugging their shoulders such is the apathy & people are leaving in droves at every level. The whole thing is & has been on an abyss for some time.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 29/06/2019 00:41:30    2202247

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Replying To realdub:  "He basically said that if any money that is going to Dublin thats not merited it should be stopped, otherwise lets move on.
He doesn't accept that money created this team though."
A well balanced and thought out answer from someone who wants to conuinue working for the Sunday game

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 29/06/2019 01:23:29    2202250

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Replying To hipster:  "Losers make excuses , and a lot of Kerry lads Tyrone and other counties have excuses the length of King Kongs arm"
Well that sums it up really, there is no point arguing with that. Evryone that's against the lobsided GDF of Dublin gaa always brings facts to the debate, exact figures, astonishing figures really, (25 million since 2004, closest is cork eith 2.3 million, registered players in dublin 39k, registered players in cork 34k). The response from Dublin just isn't acceptable, begrudgery, get your own house in order, excuses excuses bla bla bla.....these aren't opinions the rest of the country are coming up with to tarnish Dublin, these are large sums of money that are effecting us that are involved and our clubs development, it's very disheartening to know when you are going to support your county, over half the price youve paid for the ticket is going back into dublin gaa...... and the fact yee think it's nothing to do with money is even more sickening, its killing the game and yee dont appreciate it or even need it apparantly... I can guarantee if dublins funding is cut there will be uproar, but don't worry, you still have volunteers far better than anyone else, so Sam will keep coming home...... but the funny thing is, yes, we can argue with the dubs on here about whether or not their money is doing this or that,( and i think the attitude of their supporters and commitee members is disingenuous to the highest degree on this subject) but the real people we should be targeting is the GAA, this is not dublins fault. You give a.struggling business a loan to get up and running and get back on their feet, if 19 years later they are feckin google, ya dont keep giving them the same amount of money, you say right your back on your feet, time to give it to someone that needs it. Crazy stuff

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 888 - 29/06/2019 08:10:33    2202261

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Replying To ballydalane:  "Bottom line; there's 15 Dublinmen that the rest of the country haven't been able to beat in the last last 5 years.

Kerry can't put out 15 men to beat them.
Mayo can't put out 15 men to beat them.
Tyrone can't put out 15 men to beat them.
Donegal can't put out 15 men to beat them.
Meath can't put out 15 men to beat them.
Kildare can't put out 15 men to beat them.

Blame " funding" all you want for your own shortcomings."
That's too simple and inaccurate. Dublin have a wonderful panel of players and it's usually the freshness off the bench in the last 10-15 minutes that brings them over the line.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1803 - 29/06/2019 09:31:15    2202271

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "I am going to get slated, disowned and ridiculed for this, but....sometimes you gotta be honest and say what you see. Re funding I don't know enough to make an educated comment but, on the face of it, it DOES seem unfair
Playing all our home games in Croker absolutely is wrong and playing purchase neutral game in super 8s in Croker plus our home game IS wrong. We do get special benefits, we do have unfair advantageso and hand on heart, our current dominance IS compromised. I tool this view in recent years hence my lack of involvement on HS in recent years
Breaks my heart to admit that"
Nobody should be ridiculed for speaking objectively and openly about what they see.
To be fair to Brian Cody, and he's totally committed to KK hurling, when the cats were winning Leinster each year and it had become a bore, same as the football situation now, he was in favour of changing it, allowing Galway and other counties in - that has improved the Leinster championship tenfold.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1803 - 29/06/2019 09:42:40    2202274

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "I am going to get slated, disowned and ridiculed for this, but....sometimes you gotta be honest and say what you see. Re funding I don't know enough to make an educated comment but, on the face of it, it DOES seem unfair
Playing all our home games in Croker absolutely is wrong and playing purchase neutral game in super 8s in Croker plus our home game IS wrong. We do get special benefits, we do have unfair advantageso and hand on heart, our current dominance IS compromised. I tool this view in recent years hence my lack of involvement on HS in recent years
Breaks my heart to admit that"
I think it would go a long way with the rest of the country if Dublin played their neutral game in Tullamore (Roscommon), Clones (Donegal) or Thurles (Kerry) depending on who they draw.

There's a little bit of bitterness going around about Dublin. Yes they get extra funding but also they do things really well in the county.

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 248 - 29/06/2019 10:16:32    2202281

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "I am going to get slated, disowned and ridiculed for this, but....sometimes you gotta be honest and say what you see. Re funding I don't know enough to make an educated comment but, on the face of it, it DOES seem unfair
Playing all our home games in Croker absolutely is wrong and playing purchase neutral game in super 8s in Croker plus our home game IS wrong. We do get special benefits, we do have unfair advantageso and hand on heart, our current dominance IS compromised. I tool this view in recent years hence my lack of involvement on HS in recent years
Breaks my heart to admit that"
Fair play to you. All the points you make are 100% correct and who cares if you get slated for saying the obvious. Of course not easy to admit in such plain terms as you have but well done for doing so.

The denial by some of your county forum users is also understandable as they are protecting the team but a bit tiresome at this stage as it's obvious the imbalance in the treatment of Dublin.

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 29/06/2019 10:20:53    2202285

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "I am going to get slated, disowned and ridiculed for this, but....sometimes you gotta be honest and say what you see. Re funding I don't know enough to make an educated comment but, on the face of it, it DOES seem unfair
Playing all our home games in Croker absolutely is wrong and playing purchase neutral game in super 8s in Croker plus our home game IS wrong. We do get special benefits, we do have unfair advantageso and hand on heart, our current dominance IS compromised. I tool this view in recent years hence my lack of involvement on HS in recent years
Breaks my heart to admit that"
Very honest post Liam. Fair play too you.

Hopefully now some more Dubs will appreciate the frustrations of others on here.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 29/06/2019 10:38:14    2202294

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Replying To arock:  "This tiresome argument is only about one sport, Gaelic football and not even club Gaelic football at that. GAA clubs in Dublin are mostly all inclusive, all code, cross gender sports clubs. This has only been possible by forward thinking volunteers in Dublin, tirelessly promoting the games in local schools. This great Dublin team was leaving primary when the fruits of that foresight was invested in the local game. Games development officers are part paid by clubs and county and in some cases by GAA where clubs are severely disadvantaged. Dublin invested time, lots of it in developing a process, system, selection, games development it has really only worked in Ladies and Mens football. Dublin's big problem was picking quality from a large pool and they have cracked that. They know they don;t need to be winning, Minor, U20's etc they just need a few players coming into the senior setup and a few leaving, maintaining standards. It won't last forever and the begrudgers will find some other target. But this argument has very very little to do with money, it is about sour grapes. Look at Slaughtneil in Derry - that is truly remarkable, far more remarkable than what Dublin footballers have done. And look at the wreck that passes for counties surrounding Dublin? they are a mess. In Naas last saturday there was far more Dublin jerseys on display than Kildare ones. This is not about money, a small minority of people here believe it is because its an easy troll, but it is not the truth or the reality. Dublin GAA is far bigger than its Gaelic football teams and that takes nothing away from them. Thousands are playing the games that is what this is all about."
Do you know who Cuala get sponsored by?

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 29/06/2019 10:40:13    2202297

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This is a genuine question, not trying to nick pick because I don't understand the full details but I hear a lot of Dubs saying these games development officers are paid 50% by county board and 50% by the clubs.

Is there a development officer in every single club? Or is it say 1 officer for a certain area?

How can a tiny division 6-7 club pay for half the wages of a development officer?

I know my club are struggling financially and we are a Div 1 club in GAA mad Tyrone.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 29/06/2019 10:46:59    2202302

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "I am going to get slated, disowned and ridiculed for this, but....sometimes you gotta be honest and say what you see. Re funding I don't know enough to make an educated comment but, on the face of it, it DOES seem unfair
Playing all our home games in Croker absolutely is wrong and playing purchase neutral game in super 8s in Croker plus our home game IS wrong. We do get special benefits, we do have unfair advantageso and hand on heart, our current dominance IS compromised. I tool this view in recent years hence my lack of involvement on HS in recent years
Breaks my heart to admit that"
Fairplay Liam, I don't think you should be slated for a balanced, honest and objective opinion.

Again I've made very few if any comments over the years regarding funding, infact I was quite dismissive of it, but when I saw the figures recently they did jump out as lopsided.

Having said that, money cannot buy the talent Dublin currently has, it can nurture it but not create it. The Dubs should be very proud of this team, they genuinely are a joy to watch.

Anyway I've always tended to focus more though on what other counties can do to help themselves, make the most of what they have. In Meath we only got our underage structures in order maybe 5-6 years ago (over a decade later than a lot of other counties) and we're still in the process of fixing our county championship structure which was changed for the worse 16 years ago!

Extra funding might have helped us a bit but the reason Meath have slipped away is not Dublin, it's us, simple as that.

Finally again in defense of Dublin, it's not as if they swooped in and stole the money, Croke Park allocates the funds so this is an issue for them to address.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 29/06/2019 10:56:32    2202305

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That's just it. My uneasiness is not to do with funding, I don't know enough to have a strong opinion on that. My uneasiness is all to do with the obvious advantages of all games in Croker and 2 home games in super 8s. It's just simply not fair and it doesn't sit well with me

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 29/06/2019 11:30:43    2202307

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "I am going to get slated, disowned and ridiculed for this, but....sometimes you gotta be honest and say what you see. Re funding I don't know enough to make an educated comment but, on the face of it, it DOES seem unfair
Playing all our home games in Croker absolutely is wrong and playing purchase neutral game in super 8s in Croker plus our home game IS wrong. We do get special benefits, we do have unfair advantageso and hand on heart, our current dominance IS compromised. I tool this view in recent years hence my lack of involvement on HS in recent years
Breaks my heart to admit that"
Fair play Liam. Nice to hear from someone who has actually considered the debate & formed an independent view of the situation.

greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 29/06/2019 11:50:35    2202313

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