National Forum

The Dubs, The Monies & The Prejudices

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Replying To waynoI:  "If you're expecting to come on here and write long posts about this topic that raises its head constantly and expect to change peoples perception or view, you're wasting your time.

There are valid points on both sides of the argument and while there are people on both sides who talk an awful lot of sense, there are also people on both sides of the argument who talk an awful lot of bollocks. The infuriating aspect of this whole debate for me is that the vast majority of people are so biased that the counter points made, even superbly balanced and well thought out points, are ignored.

Me personally l appreciate that people have their views, their own opinions, their thoughts, and as much as I may agree or disagree, I don't want to waste my time going around in circles on a topic on something that's become pretty boring, tiresome and debated as nauseum.

Ultimately - The whole ethos of the GAA in inherently flawed. Most sports are inherently flawed. Even if all the financial issues were sorted, you'd the have people talking about population differences with one county having a wider pick over another etc. There will always be complaints, and people will always talk a massive load of waffle and expect perfection, but its impossible. It'll never happen. Not in any of our life times in any case.

RE: people not appreciating Dublin's greatness. To my recollection, I cant think of many sports teams in my life time (born early 90s) who were *fully* appreciated while they where still on the scene on the scene ? Manchester United under Ferguson, The great Kilkenny team that won 4 all Irelands in a row 06-09 and 8 in 10 years between 2006 and 2015. No-one likes teams dominating, but when it ends, and Dublin go through a bit of a famine (and it will) , People, not only outside of Dublin, but within Dublin will only full appreciate the magnitude of 4 all Irelands in a row (so far, hopefully 5), how good they are/were and people will hold this team up on a pedestal for decades to come, and ill be telling my kids the stories of this team and all of their achievements.

I watch them home and away. Hail , sun, wind, rain, sleet & snow. I've seen them overcome unreal obstacles like the Mayo and Kerry teams who have pushed them close over the years. I've seen their work rate and application, I'm aware of records they've smashed and the ones in their sights, I think I appreciate how good they are but maybe I don't and in time I will, But I know they're special and above all that, they're really nice, good human beings who in my experiences of them have been nothing superb in giving their time to fans especially kids. They're a credit to the city, the county, their clubs, their families, friends and to us. I don't think we should be insecure and need people from outside of Dublin to tell us how great we are. Don't let it keep you up at night. Even if they don't say it out loud, You'd have to be either in serious denial, blind, or both to not appreciate the brilliance of Dublin."
That is a mature response Wayno and fair play to you. I just wish other Dubs would take your lead.

Dublin are a great team, if they didn't have the money, home advantage etc etc they still would have won all Irelands.

Its just some Dubs with the "im the number 1 Dub fan in the whole world and we can't admit anything is an advantage to Dublin." If Dublin are getting home advantage just say "yes its an advantage", don't argue with it, because it is a clear advantage. Same as the money, its an advantage, there is no argument, so stop trying to justify it.

I have the utmost respect for Dublin and there achievements and they will be talked about for years to come. But I just think the Dub fans don't appreciate the frustrations of other counties when some of the advantages Dublin have may have tipped a game in Dublin's favour. Its only natural to get frustrated.

And may I add some of the criticisms of the Dublin team are OTT.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 28/06/2019 10:34:09    2202020

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "That is a mature response Wayno and fair play to you. I just wish other Dubs would take your lead.

Dublin are a great team, if they didn't have the money, home advantage etc etc they still would have won all Irelands.

Its just some Dubs with the "im the number 1 Dub fan in the whole world and we can't admit anything is an advantage to Dublin." If Dublin are getting home advantage just say "yes its an advantage", don't argue with it, because it is a clear advantage. Same as the money, its an advantage, there is no argument, so stop trying to justify it.

I have the utmost respect for Dublin and there achievements and they will be talked about for years to come. But I just think the Dub fans don't appreciate the frustrations of other counties when some of the advantages Dublin have may have tipped a game in Dublin's favour. Its only natural to get frustrated.

And may I add some of the criticisms of the Dublin team are OTT."
Good post Fridge.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 28/06/2019 10:49:37    2202026

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "Knew the culchies would be upset by this ;)

Anyway one thing I've noticed on here is the amount of kerry posters that constantly moan and try to discredit this teams achievements.

The big bad dubs are here to stay lads the GAA is finished bla bla bla... Doomsday merchants.

You can just tell they are hurting big time. They can't stand this Dublin teams success!! Wasn't a peep out of them when we were winning nothing. Sure they loved us... And why wouldn't they... Considering we are their biggest rival in GAA yet failed to beat them in championship football in 30 years. Along comes a golden generation of Dublin footballers and they haven't beaten us this decade... So of course it must be the money. Just like the excuses they rolled out when they couldn't get a win over Tyrone in the noughties, too rough that Tyrone side they said. Very sore losers that lot ;)"
Success of a team should be taken out of this debate. I'm sure when Kerry were completely dominant a lot of GAA supporters from outside the county were bored and fed up of them winning just as people outside of Dublin are now. That's a natural feeling to have when one team is so far ahead of the rest. It also happens within counties when you have dominant clubs winning several championships in a row.

Usually in these scenarios, the dominate team might have some advantages over others and the main one usually is they simply have the best players of that particular era. Other advantages can be things like population and facilities available to that team but that has always been the case up and down the country and not much can be done about it except maybe helping out the less successful clubs and counties with their facilities and a lot of this work has been and is going on.

A lot of Dublin supporters point to previous eras of dominance from other teams like Kerry and Kilkenny etc and say that there wasn't the same begrudgery shown to those teams as Dublin get now and that might well be true but no one loved those teams outside of those counties. Dublin supporters also say that people from outside Dublin are only complaining about the money side of things because of their success but as I said at the start of this post if you take success out of it, do you think everyone would be okay with the funding figures that have been revealed in recent times? The fact Dublin are successful definitely adds fuel to the fire but it's something that would cause a huge issue no matter what.

I believe this Dublin team would be there without the additional funding they get and I don't hate this team because of that. I dislike them because they are so good and if anyone was to beat them I'd be delighted. I've mentioned on other threads that this particular Dublin team have small advantages over other teams and the main one is their use of Croke Park. I know it's out of their control but when you look at how the GAA have designed certain things to Dublin's advantage and then you throw the funding and the sponsorship deals on top of that then it's hard to say it's not played a small part on their success. Yes, this is one of the greatest groups of players ever to have come through but as pointed out by a previous poster some of Dublin's victories in all ireland finals over the last 4 years have been quite small and when it comes down to fine margins like that then you would have to ask do those small advantages add up to 1 win?

Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 28/06/2019 11:34:35    2202038

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Dublin have received unfair financial benefits, however, they have used this money excellently and continued to develop more sources of income through sponsorship.
The key to the success is the Development plan "The Blue Wave" which aimed to develop a structure allowing them to have an all Ireland strike rate like Kerry, which they achieved so far. They put the proper structures in place and reaped the rewards.
Belgium's youth development structure in soccer is a model all counties could follow. (Project 2000)

dakid (Australia) - Posts: 284 - 28/06/2019 12:50:36    2202061

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The funding is, of course, scandalous, but I don't think anyone should reasonably expect any major changes. Dublin, rightfully, receive the majority of funding due to having the most players etc. Success at the highest level ultimately comes hand in hand with that, but I believe Dublin would have won 5 in a row regardless.

The GAA have, for all intents and purposes, decided on a plan which leads to the game going professional. For this to happen, the game needs to be strong in schools in Dublin. If you agree with the sport going professional, then this must be considered a good thing. The problem is, a professional sport cannot be expected to thrive when it's premier competition is as archaic and lopsided as the All-Ireland Championship, and there doesn't seem to be any great movement from the men involved in councils to change this, whether it be their own pushback vs professionalism, apathy, or incompetence. (Fingers pointed as Donegal's hilariously bad motion at congress RE: the Super 8s in Croke Park).

Regardless of what's coming in the next 10 years for the game - it should be easy to fix the Championship to keep up with the other sports, whilst protecting our ethos.

SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 372 - 28/06/2019 13:36:51    2202077

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "Kerry going for 6 minor all irelands in a row really backs up that prediction pal"
Haven't Dublin won more at u21 level? That's the level that matters not minor.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 28/06/2019 13:45:57    2202080

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Can we have a provincial discussion? It is the solution.

FOOTBALL:
Dublin
North Leinster
South Leinster
Munster
Connaught
Ulster

HURLING:
Dublin
Leinster
North Munster
South Munster
Connaught
Ulster

It is possible to run the national leagues in February and March, the All-Ireland inter-county championships in April and May, and then an inter provincial round robin championship in June and July. August onwards can be for the club games.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 28/06/2019 16:07:26    2202120

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Replying To superbluedub:  "You did read it , lol..."
Ha ha, in fairness I read a couple of paragraphs and nearly fell asleep. I am definitely not trying to put down this current Dublin side, I have nothing but total admiration for them. I love the way they go about their business with no bullsh** from them. I thinking the funding issue is a different matter entirely though but people are mixing both up.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1873 - 28/06/2019 16:50:17    2202130

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Name another sport where the governing body fund one team more than any other team, Provides stadia for that team, gives that team every game in same stadium ? The same governing body then changes the format to a super 8 format and again gives one team 2 home games when everyone else gets 1 home game.

This is supposed to be fair ??

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 28/06/2019 17:01:55    2202136

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I've never been much one to complain about the money but to dismiss out of hand the role that money plays is a bit rich (pardon the pun). Also I fully acknowledge that it's perfectly normal to defend something you love and are very proud of and the Dubs should be proud of their current team. But just a couple of things.

Between 2007 and 2018 Dublin received €17.9m in development grants from Croke Park whereas the other 11 Leinster counties combined received €10.5 during the same period. The population of Dublin is 1.3m and the rest of Leinster is roughly the same (perhaps slightly less). So there is an obvious discrepancy here.

Now there's no doubt that Dublin are currently blessed with brilliant individual players and a manager of the highest quality, those are things you can't buy (particularly players), but again you simply cannot dismiss the role money plays. Money makes the world turn at the end of the day, to deny it's influence is dishonest at best.

Also the bit about Cluxton and the lads 'gathered in our clubhouse at 8.00pm each Sunday night', fairplay to them, that's what you have to do. But this is not unique, scores of lads and ladies across the country put in this sort of effort and often against greater odds, it's what's required to compete.

Finally, interesting at the end was quoting Donald Trump, stating that other counties were believing "fake new", this attitude reminds me a bit of another Donald Trump quote: "my father gave me a small loan of a million dollars". This is the Dublin attitude, when you're used to receiving so much, it begins to seem like so little.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 28/06/2019 17:16:06    2202140

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Can we just have one master Dublin Venting Thread please Fear Administrator, im all for rich debate once its open minded or there is some new smoking gun to push it forward, but really a lot of these threads are just the same arguments, on the same points, same old numbers that have been dissected and analysed for and against, proven and disprove, week after week. People think they are making an original point every time, its a total stale debate at this stage and boring.

Thats not me saying for or against and yes or it shouldn't be discussed and highlighted i know this thread was started by someone from my county, but surely one thread were lads can vent about all of our advantages, being a witch and the players getting winged monkey butlers would work for everyone. Is this beyond the realms of technology?

"But why should Dublin get their own Dublin Venting Thread". ;)

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 28/06/2019 17:28:05    2202144

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Replying To westkerry:  "Name another sport where the governing body fund one team more than any other team, Provides stadia for that team, gives that team every game in same stadium ? The same governing body then changes the format to a super 8 format and again gives one team 2 home games when everyone else gets 1 home game.

This is supposed to be fair ??"
The governing body being made up in the majority by non-Dubs of course. You're right. Where would you get it. Turkeys voting for Xmas.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 28/06/2019 19:16:54    2202172

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Replying To Joxer:  "The governing body being made up in the majority by non-Dubs of course. You're right. Where would you get it. Turkeys voting for Xmas."
Absolutely Joxer spot on, A complete disconnect with what the normal man and woman of the organisation thinks.
Read my post again point out what ive said thats not true Joxer? No deflection or look whatabourty now.

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 28/06/2019 20:18:37    2202195

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "I do indeed, grandparents are from Ballinamuck, Co Longford. Great Grandparents from Galway"
There are all sorts of culchies in Ireland, a good few have settled in Dublin and have volunteered to promote gaelic football and hurling in the capital. In fact the GAA would be in dire straits in Dublin without those various generations of culchies. Sports ppl in general go for the underdog. In hurling most supporters would like to see the big three beaten, KK, Tipp and Cork. Not that they have anything against them but that they have won so much over the years which means the others have lost a fair bit. Personally I'd be in favour of positive discrimination in the sense that counties who are weak in either football or hurling should be given some extra assistance for a period of time. I was in favour of the promotion and development of hurling in Dublin. I thought and still do that it would be good for the game in general as well as in Dublin. But to have given extra funding to gaelic football in Dublin when it was already very strong in the capital was simply wrong and has widened the gap between the strongest and the weaker counties. It's not the Dublin footballers fault or doing, but politics has paid its part and it hasn't helped the overall development of gaelic football in the country.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1785 - 28/06/2019 20:54:44    2202200

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "I do indeed, grandparents are from Ballinamuck, Co Longford. Great Grandparents from Galway"
Go wan the gales,

Monkeycatcher (Meath) - Posts: 155 - 28/06/2019 21:14:29    2202202

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "That is a mature response Wayno and fair play to you. I just wish other Dubs would take your lead.

Dublin are a great team, if they didn't have the money, home advantage etc etc they still would have won all Irelands.

Its just some Dubs with the "im the number 1 Dub fan in the whole world and we can't admit anything is an advantage to Dublin." If Dublin are getting home advantage just say "yes its an advantage", don't argue with it, because it is a clear advantage. Same as the money, its an advantage, there is no argument, so stop trying to justify it.

I have the utmost respect for Dublin and there achievements and they will be talked about for years to come. But I just think the Dub fans don't appreciate the frustrations of other counties when some of the advantages Dublin have may have tipped a game in Dublin's favour. Its only natural to get frustrated.

And may I add some of the criticisms of the Dublin team are OTT."
These are different times. An offally,Westmeath, Kildare, Laois or Westmeath will never win a Leinster title again in its current state.Dublin will win the next infinity Leinster titles in a row, they got their act together and fair play to them just as Kerry will in munster, Clare 1992 and that's it with the very odd cork title. Not that long ago dubs wud have a sell out for a first round, not anymore, 50k Leinster final against Meath??? Munster final 18k crowd?? Seriously, Gaelic football is in serious trouble, going to be impossible to motivate players in lesser counties from here on out. You just can't put in that professional effort year after year with the hope of keeping a score line down. The futures youth won't do it and I can't say I blame them. Change badly needed.

bottletopbill (Wexford) - Posts: 71 - 28/06/2019 21:55:24    2202212

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Oh Christ another forum obsessing with dublin

PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 28/06/2019 22:06:40    2202216

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Lot of angles to this debate.
From a games development point of view this has been a great success. The reason giving extra funding for Dublin GAA was agreed to by the delegates from all counties years ago was it was obviously bad situation that Dublin had by far the biggest population but GAA sports were not as popular in Dublin as other counties. It's great to see now more people playing and interested in GAA sports in Dublin. (Although one thing that I don't like is hearing about super clubs with huge number of teams. This is completely different than the original way the GAA became integrated into communities and leaves much less opportunity for players to play for their first team.)

Looking at it from the point of view of fair inter county competition structure you could not really say it's fair. When a sports govnering body basically prioritises growing the games in ones teams area over all others it is not fair competition.

At the moment these 2 aims of the GAA seem to be in conflict with each other.
In a few years if Dublin get stronger to such an extent that the All Ireland championship becomes a non event it will be a huge problem for all counties including Dublin as it is the inter county championship which gets the GAA national coverage.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1337 - 28/06/2019 22:33:42    2202220

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Not too many counties giving their U23 players a "bursury" to not travel to the states for the summer. Yet the dubs do it. Let's not have any more nonsense about this being a level playing field

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 28/06/2019 22:54:51    2202222

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How long will it take the Dubs to get ahead of Kerry in All ireland wins

centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 360 - 28/06/2019 23:02:23    2202225

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