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Replying To greysoil: "Replying To KingdomBoy1: "100% jack, Horan is trying his hardest to to get tier 2 in and turning a blind eye to what is going on under his nose.
****
the tier 2 s***e and share the money out equally.
I can't see anything being changed until county teams take a stand and strike, i gaurentee you if there's mention of a strike and sky get word of it the GAA will have to change the over funding of Dublin and while they're at it get the dubs on the road."
A second tier championship is addressing a symptom not the cause . Both Meath and Kildare would be in the top tier .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 4973 - 04/07/2019
The second tier championship is smoke & mirrors by an unashamedly partisan president. An attempt to deflect from the real issues." Tier 2 teams don't like being tier 2 I get that, not easy admitting that but that's sport someone has to win. You talk about real issues as if the real issue is Dublin. How come Kildare amd Meath are poor? IMO Its because they don't have the players of the required standard, that's the simple harsh reality. If you create a myth and repeat it enough it becomes your fact, but no one else's.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 05/07/2019 13:20:40
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Replying To avonali: "Do you realise that there are vast areas of Dublin where there are no GAA clubs whatsoever." The posts are getting more and more ridiculous.
There isn't a single professional GAA player in the country. There are many people making a living out of the GAA, trainers, managers, dietitians, psychologists etc etc, not to mention all the suits involved, but unfortunately the same cannot be said about the players.
Unfortunately there is no answer to the situation we are in. If people want to draw the line at inter county and point the finger at Dublin GAA and grants and funding, then they will have to play favourites here and ignore disparities around the country between bigger towns and smaller villages as well as between bigger counties and smaller ones within provinces - not to mention sponsorship. There was an interesting article the other day highlighting the plight of less well off counties compared to others. It wasn't all about the Dubs either.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-sponsorship-deals-highlight-richman-poorman-divide-29649138.html
One simple way around this would be to handicap successful counties, (not just the dubs), in order to create a more level playing field for the championship the following year. No money available to provincial winners in grants or wherever else it seems to appear from. This money then would be distributed among the weaker counties, starting from the lower divisions up rather than the next strongest down.
Anyone who doubts this template may look to real life examples of its success as it has worked across the atlantic in the AFL.
If this means that my own county would feel the pain the following year, it would be worth it for the future of the championship.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 05/07/2019 13:23:51
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Replying To avonali: "So Gerry, you've conceded the point that most IC players are supported by their employers....in what sense then are the Dublin team more 'professional' than other counties.which was the point that I was originally contesting with another poster." I never said a word about Dublin high up or low down. I was refuting your assertion that the Kerry lads were professional. I think you said the Dubs were not professional like the Kerry players or something like that.
As an aside, Donaghy refuted that article on his Twitter account shortly after and started another job. A few journalists obviously put two and two together and came up with five, do not believe everything you read in the papers, or in the public domain as you put it.
So you have come up with one injury prone player coming to the end of his playing days who took some time out to rehab to back up that claim you made. Hardly conclusive.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/07/2019 13:24:56
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Replying To Donegalman: "The posts are getting more and more ridiculous.
There isn't a single professional GAA player in the country. There are many people making a living out of the GAA, trainers, managers, dietitians, psychologists etc etc, not to mention all the suits involved, but unfortunately the same cannot be said about the players.
Unfortunately there is no answer to the situation we are in. If people want to draw the line at inter county and point the finger at Dublin GAA and grants and funding, then they will have to play favourites here and ignore disparities around the country between bigger towns and smaller villages as well as between bigger counties and smaller ones within provinces - not to mention sponsorship. There was an interesting article the other day highlighting the plight of less well off counties compared to others. It wasn't all about the Dubs either.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-sponsorship-deals-highlight-richman-poorman-divide-29649138.html
One simple way around this would be to handicap successful counties, (not just the dubs), in order to create a more level playing field for the championship the following year. No money available to provincial winners in grants or wherever else it seems to appear from. This money then would be distributed among the weaker counties, starting from the lower divisions up rather than the next strongest down.
Anyone who doubts this template may look to real life examples of its success as it has worked across the atlantic in the AFL.
If this means that my own county would feel the pain the following year, it would be worth it for the future of the championship." This makes sense.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/07/2019 13:41:10
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Replying To Donegalman: "The posts are getting more and more ridiculous.
There isn't a single professional GAA player in the country. There are many people making a living out of the GAA, trainers, managers, dietitians, psychologists etc etc, not to mention all the suits involved, but unfortunately the same cannot be said about the players.
Unfortunately there is no answer to the situation we are in. If people want to draw the line at inter county and point the finger at Dublin GAA and grants and funding, then they will have to play favourites here and ignore disparities around the country between bigger towns and smaller villages as well as between bigger counties and smaller ones within provinces - not to mention sponsorship. There was an interesting article the other day highlighting the plight of less well off counties compared to others. It wasn't all about the Dubs either.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-sponsorship-deals-highlight-richman-poorman-divide-29649138.html
One simple way around this would be to handicap successful counties, (not just the dubs), in order to create a more level playing field for the championship the following year. No money available to provincial winners in grants or wherever else it seems to appear from. This money then would be distributed among the weaker counties, starting from the lower divisions up rather than the next strongest down.
Anyone who doubts this template may look to real life examples of its success as it has worked across the atlantic in the AFL.
If this means that my own county would feel the pain the following year, it would be worth it for the future of the championship." I see where you are coming from but if you want long term sustainable development you cannot have drastic changes in budgets annually. Counties will be afraid to commit to anything meaningful for fear of having the rug pulled from under them at the first sign of success or if their county team just has a lucky draw in the championship. Proper development required long term commitment like hiring coaches etc. County boards have a difficult enough time as it is without funding cuts hanging over them each year.
It's not difficult to identify the counties that need the help. Put a 5-10 year development plan in place in these areas, regionally rather than by county if necessary and monitor it with strict KPI's. You will always get the best results with medium to long term planning imo.
As for handicapping the successful counties I don't really know how you could do that in an amateur sport without a draft system. If you withdraw funding the Kerry's and Dublin's will just make it up in other ways imo.
How does it work in the AFL, just curious?
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/07/2019 14:40:47
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Replying To cavanman47: "Are there?
If you live on one of the smaller Aran Islands, you have to get a boat to your clubhouse in Kilronan on Inis Mor. All clubs have a catchment area. Some Dublin clubs, it has been well publicized, even encroach and smother the catchment area of smaller clubs, snapping up their best players.
So what areas of Dublin are you referring to? Bull Island??" Cavanman, there is no club in our city centre that serves the many flats and densely pop[ulated areas particularly around the `north inner city. On the other hand, soccer clubs like Belvedere FC thrive here as does Cambridge United from Ringsend. Walkinston, and Phibsoro have no club that represents their area either. I'm surprised you've heard of Bull Island yet didn't know this smart lad.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/07/2019 14:42:31
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Replying To avonali: "Cavanman, there is no club in our city centre that serves the many flats and densely pop[ulated areas particularly around the `north inner city. On the other hand, soccer clubs like Belvedere FC thrive here as does Cambridge United from Ringsend. Walkinston, and Phibsoro have no club that represents their area either. I'm surprised you've heard of Bull Island yet didn't know this smart lad." Is Belvedere FC not sandwiched in between St Brendans and St Vincents gaa clubs?
SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 589 - 05/07/2019 14:59:58
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Replying To avonali: "Cavanman, there is no club in our city centre that serves the many flats and densely pop[ulated areas particularly around the `north inner city. On the other hand, soccer clubs like Belvedere FC thrive here as does Cambridge United from Ringsend. Walkinston, and Phibsoro have no club that represents their area either. I'm surprised you've heard of Bull Island yet didn't know this smart lad." Clan na Gael are in Ringsend, St James' the Walkinstown club and St Brendan's near Phibsborough?
Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 05/07/2019 15:25:30
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Replying To Superglue: "Clan na Gael are in Ringsend, St James' the Walkinstown club and St Brendan's near Phibsborough?" St James are Walkinstown, Drimnagh and Crumlin
Main pitches are near the school in Drimnagh Castle off the Long Mile Road and The old Guinness workers clubs on the Crumlin Road, near the Crumlin SC
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 05/07/2019 15:51:06
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Replying To Donegalman: "The posts are getting more and more ridiculous.
There isn't a single professional GAA player in the country. There are many people making a living out of the GAA, trainers, managers, dietitians, psychologists etc etc, not to mention all the suits involved, but unfortunately the same cannot be said about the players.
Unfortunately there is no answer to the situation we are in. If people want to draw the line at inter county and point the finger at Dublin GAA and grants and funding, then they will have to play favourites here and ignore disparities around the country between bigger towns and smaller villages as well as between bigger counties and smaller ones within provinces - not to mention sponsorship. There was an interesting article the other day highlighting the plight of less well off counties compared to others. It wasn't all about the Dubs either.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-sponsorship-deals-highlight-richman-poorman-divide-29649138.html
One simple way around this would be to handicap successful counties, (not just the dubs), in order to create a more level playing field for the championship the following year. No money available to provincial winners in grants or wherever else it seems to appear from. This money then would be distributed among the weaker counties, starting from the lower divisions up rather than the next strongest down.
Anyone who doubts this template may look to real life examples of its success as it has worked across the atlantic in the AFL.
If this means that my own county would feel the pain the following year, it would be worth it for the future of the championship." Yes makes perfect sense. It's obvious that this topic has been heavily used by certain charlatans in the media and elsewhere to try to sully Dublin's record without any reference to the disparities between other counties. I brought this to the attention of a Meath poster on here who was raising the usual funds, population argument after Dublin beat Louth. I had to remind him of his county's score against Carlow on the same day and the funding and population disparity between both of those counties. These inequalities are present across the whole country and always have been.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 05/07/2019 15:55:33
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Replying To Joxer: "Yes makes perfect sense. It's obvious that this topic has been heavily used by certain charlatans in the media and elsewhere to try to sully Dublin's record without any reference to the disparities between other counties. I brought this to the attention of a Meath poster on here who was raising the usual funds, population argument after Dublin beat Louth. I had to remind him of his county's score against Carlow on the same day and the funding and population disparity between both of those counties. These inequalities are present across the whole country and always have been." Often made that point myself Joxer. Someone from Cork/Galway giving out about Dubs natural advantages, while they play in provinces with Leitrim and Clare!!!
Dublin's advantages over Cork and Galway are nowhere near Cork's advantages over Clare, or Galway's advantages over Leitrim!
(And don't get me started on London and NY!!)
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 05/07/2019 16:09:43
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I wouldn't be in favor of financially incentive's sporting failure to be honest. Essentially you are putting a financial temptation there not to achieve a provincial final, etc. Flies in the spirit of sport to me.
I think succeeding at sport should always be incentivised and left alone from the finance argument, fair enough if you want to make a sociodemographic case or development plan for funding. But sport placings, no.
Race to the bottom.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 05/07/2019 16:10:59
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Replying To Superglue: "Clan na Gael are in Ringsend, St James' the Walkinstown club and St Brendan's near Phibsborough?" With the greatest of respect these areas/clubs do not serve the north inner city. Firstly, ringsend and Walkinstown are on the south side. There is only one GAA club/team serving the actual north inner city and that is my own club, St. joeys ocb. The closest club to Croke park i may add. And as close as we might ever get too. :)
CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 05/07/2019 16:47:20
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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Often made that point myself Joxer. Someone from Cork/Galway giving out about Dubs natural advantages, while they play in provinces with Leitrim and Clare!!!
Dublin's advantages over Cork and Galway are nowhere near Cork's advantages over Clare, or Galway's advantages over Leitrim!
(And don't get me started on London and NY!!)" Leitrim are great! Leave Leitrim alone! I actually think this argument is irrelevant and a bit dumb. But each to there own.
SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 589 - 05/07/2019 18:11:12
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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Often made that point myself Joxer. Someone from Cork/Galway giving out about Dubs natural advantages, while they play in provinces with Leitrim and Clare!!!
Dublin's advantages over Cork and Galway are nowhere near Cork's advantages over Clare, or Galway's advantages over Leitrim!
(And don't get me started on London and NY!!)" You are correct and no matter what the GAA do they will never have a completely Level competition where we have 30-32 teams all capable of winning the top prize. That doesn't happens in any sport.
One solution is to make the excellent NFL the main competition over time by moving it to the summer and have teams playing against sides at their own level. Fix the championship structure as well, there are numerous other threads about that so I won't get in to specific proposals here.
There are ways that things could be made better and that's why the 2 tier proposal currently on the table is so disappointing. It doesn't fix anything whatsoever and looks like a vanity project for John Horan.
Back to the topic, Dublin's dominance will either continue or they will fall back to being merely contenders, we will know soon enough. Any talk of drastic measures to split or weaken them is premature at this stage IMO.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/07/2019 19:03:16
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "You are correct and no matter what the GAA do they will never have a completely Level competition where we have 30-32 teams all capable of winning the top prize. That doesn't happens in any sport.
One solution is to make the excellent NFL the main competition over time by moving it to the summer and have teams playing against sides at their own level. Fix the championship structure as well, there are numerous other threads about that so I won't get in to specific proposals here.
There are ways that things could be made better and that's why the 2 tier proposal currently on the table is so disappointing. It doesn't fix anything whatsoever and looks like a vanity project for John Horan.
Back to the topic, Dublin's dominance will either continue or they will fall back to being merely contenders, we will know soon enough. Any talk of drastic measures to split or weaken them is premature at this stage IMO." I agree with you there Gerry. If you split a county based on 4 successive senior AI titles then you should split a county based on 5 successive minor titles, no? The hysteria from certain quarters concerning Dublin's success at this single grade is worrying but surely the same barometer should be applied to other grades and codes, no? Why is there no microscope on Kerry and their minor successes, problem with quality in Munster. Why was Kilkenny's monopoly at senior hurling level never under the microscope. The old "sure they were born with hurls in their hand" line was always trotted out. It didn't matter that the competition was not a competition. Just like Munster football. But there is no point in looking at Dublin in isolation and discussing population, money and sponsorship. Remove Dublin and the same disparities exist do they not? There is a bigger problem but those with an agenda will never see this. There's never a thought for Louth, Carlow, Leitrim, Sligo, Laois, Westmeath.... It's a geographical competition so how do you resolve a problem whereby population varies, therefore funding will vary and inevitably sponsorship revenue will vary. There is a wannabe journalist who now resides in South America and who, in viewing things from afar in his tropical keyboard warrior paradise, thinks that stifling all funds to Dublin will solve this problem. No guessing which county he is from, it's not one of the above needless to say, and no guessing which province he's from, it may be the one in which Dublin is based. Agenda? No doubt funding needs to be looked at, there's a battle in the capital to catch the eye of kids but it's not the be all. Coaches and parents are in a battle with soccer and rugby clubs to secure the future Bernard Brogans. I've seen it in my own club. Kids need to decide by 14/15 what sport they want to concentrate on. Home advantage? We don't care where we play. We give other counties the option THEY choose Croker. It's so Irish, isn't it. And then they complain about Dublin's home advantage!! Population? Cork, Antrim, Galway. What ye gonna do? Sponsorship? Success breeds success. There's no shortage of sponsors for other counties. Do the work. These games are on Sky, there are US multinationals all over the country. Make your business case, get them on board. You have to work for it. It's complicated but the backbone of this Dublin team is around 30yo. How long more can we keep it going? Money doesn't buy you skill and athleticism. But sure those of us who've played know that.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 05/07/2019 20:33:20
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Replying To avonali: "Cavanman, there is no club in our city centre that serves the many flats and densely pop[ulated areas particularly around the `north inner city. On the other hand, soccer clubs like Belvedere FC thrive here as does Cambridge United from Ringsend. Walkinston, and Phibsoro have no club that represents their area either. I'm surprised you've heard of Bull Island yet didn't know this smart lad." Clann na Gael? Work with a lad from the flats plays for them anyway.
joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 217 - 05/07/2019 22:49:13
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Replying To Joxer: "I agree with you there Gerry. If you split a county based on 4 successive senior AI titles then you should split a county based on 5 successive minor titles, no? The hysteria from certain quarters concerning Dublin's success at this single grade is worrying but surely the same barometer should be applied to other grades and codes, no? Why is there no microscope on Kerry and their minor successes, problem with quality in Munster. Why was Kilkenny's monopoly at senior hurling level never under the microscope. The old "sure they were born with hurls in their hand" line was always trotted out. It didn't matter that the competition was not a competition. Just like Munster football. But there is no point in looking at Dublin in isolation and discussing population, money and sponsorship. Remove Dublin and the same disparities exist do they not? There is a bigger problem but those with an agenda will never see this. There's never a thought for Louth, Carlow, Leitrim, Sligo, Laois, Westmeath.... It's a geographical competition so how do you resolve a problem whereby population varies, therefore funding will vary and inevitably sponsorship revenue will vary. There is a wannabe journalist who now resides in South America and who, in viewing things from afar in his tropical keyboard warrior paradise, thinks that stifling all funds to Dublin will solve this problem. No guessing which county he is from, it's not one of the above needless to say, and no guessing which province he's from, it may be the one in which Dublin is based. Agenda? No doubt funding needs to be looked at, there's a battle in the capital to catch the eye of kids but it's not the be all. Coaches and parents are in a battle with soccer and rugby clubs to secure the future Bernard Brogans. I've seen it in my own club. Kids need to decide by 14/15 what sport they want to concentrate on. Home advantage? We don't care where we play. We give other counties the option THEY choose Croker. It's so Irish, isn't it. And then they complain about Dublin's home advantage!! Population? Cork, Antrim, Galway. What ye gonna do? Sponsorship? Success breeds success. There's no shortage of sponsors for other counties. Do the work. These games are on Sky, there are US multinationals all over the country. Make your business case, get them on board. You have to work for it. It's complicated but the backbone of this Dublin team is around 30yo. How long more can we keep it going? Money doesn't buy you skill and athleticism. But sure those of us who've played know that." No microscope on Kerry Minors because it was done without the intervention of the central council.
Dublin are under the microscope because of the blatant imbalance and unfairness that is there for all to see.
westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 05/07/2019 23:18:44
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Replying To Joxer: "I agree with you there Gerry. If you split a county based on 4 successive senior AI titles then you should split a county based on 5 successive minor titles, no? The hysteria from certain quarters concerning Dublin's success at this single grade is worrying but surely the same barometer should be applied to other grades and codes, no? Why is there no microscope on Kerry and their minor successes, problem with quality in Munster. Why was Kilkenny's monopoly at senior hurling level never under the microscope. The old "sure they were born with hurls in their hand" line was always trotted out. It didn't matter that the competition was not a competition. Just like Munster football. But there is no point in looking at Dublin in isolation and discussing population, money and sponsorship. Remove Dublin and the same disparities exist do they not? There is a bigger problem but those with an agenda will never see this. There's never a thought for Louth, Carlow, Leitrim, Sligo, Laois, Westmeath.... It's a geographical competition so how do you resolve a problem whereby population varies, therefore funding will vary and inevitably sponsorship revenue will vary. There is a wannabe journalist who now resides in South America and who, in viewing things from afar in his tropical keyboard warrior paradise, thinks that stifling all funds to Dublin will solve this problem. No guessing which county he is from, it's not one of the above needless to say, and no guessing which province he's from, it may be the one in which Dublin is based. Agenda? No doubt funding needs to be looked at, there's a battle in the capital to catch the eye of kids but it's not the be all. Coaches and parents are in a battle with soccer and rugby clubs to secure the future Bernard Brogans. I've seen it in my own club. Kids need to decide by 14/15 what sport they want to concentrate on. Home advantage? We don't care where we play. We give other counties the option THEY choose Croker. It's so Irish, isn't it. And then they complain about Dublin's home advantage!! Population? Cork, Antrim, Galway. What ye gonna do? Sponsorship? Success breeds success. There's no shortage of sponsors for other counties. Do the work. These games are on Sky, there are US multinationals all over the country. Make your business case, get them on board. You have to work for it. It's complicated but the backbone of this Dublin team is around 30yo. How long more can we keep it going? Money doesn't buy you skill and athleticism. But sure those of us who've played know that." When did Galway, Mayo, Donegal or Kerry say they would choose play ye in Croke Park??
SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 589 - 06/07/2019 00:27:41
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Replying To arock: "Tier 2 teams don't like being tier 2 I get that, not easy admitting that but that's sport someone has to win. You talk about real issues as if the real issue is Dublin. How come Kildare amd Meath are poor? IMO Its because they don't have the players of the required standard, that's the simple harsh reality. If you create a myth and repeat it enough it becomes your fact, but no one else's." There is no myth about the unequal funding. If the funding was based on population then using both Kildare and Meath as an example why have Kildare and Meath just 10 or so fulltime coaches between them when Dublin have over a hundred?
I'm not saying it's the only reason that Kildare and Meath in Leinster can't challenge Dublin but it's a serious impediment to retaining young players.
This issue is not going away despite the statements by John Horan and the Leinster council chairman who are fiddling not while Rome is burning but while the football as a whole outside of Rome is being slowly but surely eroded.
The financial facts are there for all to read by journalists who are not afraid to put their heads above the parapet unlike the journalists who fawn over the the blue wave that will soon become a tsunami.
lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2989 - 06/07/2019 00:51:36
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